8 minutes ago, Dino said:

Residents, tourists, corporations don't keep picking Atlanta over Cleveland (I'm saying this to be funny!) because Cleveland lacks a domed stadium downtown.  A few Waffle Houses in Cleveland wouldn't hurt though.

Haha no I completely agree with you.  There are much larger reasons behind all of these things, still fun to debate though.

 

In 50 years when Phoenix is uninhabitable and Atlanta is 105 with 90% humidity, we'll be ready to host major events and quadruple our current Waffle House numbers.

I agree with all of the above that Cleveland is unlikely to get a super bowl for all of the above reasons. 

 

One on topic caveat, I could see a domed stadium near downtown ameliorating the hotel situation slightly. I don't think a dome is necessary, but the few extra large events it brings in might be the difference for making the math work on a new downtown hotel or two. Will that in and of itself be enough to make us super bowl viable? Probably not, just thought it was worth mentioning. 

I would prefer seeing Cleveland playing in a Super Bowl rather than Cleveland hosting a Super Bowl.

Well, according to @KJP the stadium is going on an island in Lake Erie!  Haha.  Put it in international waters...no laws...then we'll get a Super bowl for sure!

7 pages of comments since March 25. UO got to find something else to talk about. 

14 minutes ago, Ethan said:

I agree with all of the above that Cleveland is unlikely to get a super bowl for all of the above reasons. 

 

One on topic caveat, I could see a domed stadium near downtown ameliorating the hotel situation slightly. I don't think a dome is necessary, but the few extra large events it brings in might be the difference for making the math work on a new downtown hotel or two. Will that in and of itself be enough to make us super bowl viable? Probably not, just thought it was worth mentioning. 

This is part of my thinking too. Indy built like 5k hotel rooms to go with Lucas Oil and the convention center. Maybe if it was announced a new dome was going in Downtown, we'd finally learn what this new skyline changing 5 star hotel is in the Cleveland hotels thread....

2 minutes ago, Whipjacka said:

7 pages of comments since March 25. UO got to find something else to talk about. 

7 pages and nothing concrete has actually been announced.  Can you imagine this thread when we actually have a better idea what is going to happen.

11 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

7 pages and nothing concrete has actually been announced.  Can you imagine this thread when we actually have a better idea what is going to happen.

 

Perhaps it might calm down? There will be nothing to speculate about.

1 hour ago, GISguy said:

Cleveland isn't getting a Super Bowl, dome or no dome. Look at how far away some delegations were during the RNC as an example of how few hotel rooms we have, oh, and February in Cleveland. Recent cold climate SB's (MIN and NYC) had a lukewarm reception by attendees.

 

The cost of hosting a SB is insanely expensive on host cities, too. Would you rather: Cle Sports Commission/Destination Cle aim for reasonable (and some marquee!) events or put all their eggs into one single basket.

 

What has Cleveland hosted lately?

RNC, NBA All-Star Game, MLB All-Star Game, NCAA Women's Finals, NFL Draft. I'm sure people said they wouldn't get any of those too.

2 minutes ago, yanni_gogolak said:

 

What has Cleveland hosted lately?

RNC, NBA All-Star Game, MLB All-Star Game, NCAA Women's Finals, NFL Draft. I'm sure people said they wouldn't get any of those too.

Isn't it a financial loss to host the Super Bowl? I read somewhere that host cities foot a massive bill for it. 

3 minutes ago, yanni_gogolak said:

 

What has Cleveland hosted lately?

RNC, NBA All-Star Game, MLB All-Star Game, NCAA Women's Finals, NFL Draft. I'm sure people said they wouldn't get any of those too.

Also WWE Summerslam at the Browns stadium which is not as big as Wrestlemania but it is still a big draw. 

7 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Perhaps it might calm down? There will be nothing to speculate about.

True...but speculation will probably be replaced by lots of moaning and groaning.

I think the Super Bowl talk is a little bit of a distraction from which location is best for the city/region.

And honestly, I feel like the City/Bibb is in a tough spot. Scroll thru this thread and it’s clear there is no consensus on which location is best. And that is before we know anything about public costs/subsidies.

2 hours ago, yanni_gogolak said:

What has Cleveland hosted lately?

RNC, NBA All-Star Game, MLB All-Star Game, NCAA Women's Finals, NFL Draft. I'm sure people said they wouldn't get any of those too.

A Super Bowl is bigger than those.  It's not just the game but all the activities in the week prior to Super Bowl Sunday.  I'm not sure too many out-of-town folks would be excited about spending a week in Cleveland in mid-February.  And then there is the aforementioned hotel situation.

 

Edited April 5, 20241 yr by LibertyBlvd

1 hour ago, Dino said:

Well, according to @KJP the stadium is going on an island in Lake Erie!  Haha.  Put it in international waters...no laws...then we'll get a Super bowl for sure!

 

I like it!  We may or may not get a Superbowl, but certainly we'd get plenty of monkey knife fights.

 

 

I know it’s important to manage expectations and be realistic about what we can accomplish as a region, but the naysayers and their negative attitudes are getting me down. Nothing is ever good enough. With the attitudes of many on this site, no wonder we haven’t kept up with some of our peer cities. 

2 hours ago, GISguy said:

Cleveland isn't getting a Super Bowl, dome or no dome. Look at how far away some delegations were during the RNC as an example of how few hotel rooms we have, oh, and February in Cleveland. Recent cold climate SB's (MIN and NYC) had a lukewarm reception by attendees.

 

The cost of hosting a SB is insanely expensive on host cities, too. Would you rather: Cle Sports Commission/Destination Cle aim for reasonable (and some marquee!) events or put all their eggs into one single basket.

Indy pulled off a Super Bowl...

Edited April 5, 20241 yr by Oxford19

Quote

What has Cleveland hosted lately?

RNC, NBA All-Star Game, MLB All-Star Game, NCAA Women's Finals, NFL Draft. I'm sure people said they wouldn't get any of those too.

 

See my note about (some marquee!) events, none of those are on the level of a Super Bowl.

 

 

But anywho, back to the stadium, where do we suppose funding is going to come from if built in the city? Sin Taxes are plummeting, the county had to pass a tax increase to fund the jail (and courts tower), and Cleveland isn't exactly floating in a surplus. 

 

You can't squeeze blood out of a turnip, but the Haslam's certainly will try.

Edited April 5, 20241 yr by GISguy

56 minutes ago, GISguy said:

So idk, back to the stadium, where do we suppose funding is going to come from if built in the city? Sin Taxes are plummeting, the county had to pass a tax increase to fund the jail (and courts tower), and Cleveland isn't exactly floating in a surplus. 

 

You can't squeeze blood out of a turnip, but the Haslam's certainly will try.

Good point and look at the fire sale of 200 Public Square: $54 million, not including the parking garage which separately sold in February for $31.25 million.  

 

This prominent and huge office tower sold for only $23 million more than its parking garage?

Edited April 5, 20241 yr by Oxford19

2 hours ago, Cleveland Rising said:

I know it’s important to manage expectations and be realistic about what we can accomplish as a region, but the naysayers and their negative attitudes are getting me down. Nothing is ever good enough. With the attitudes of many on this site, no wonder we haven’t kept up with some of our peer cities. 

I'd say this is one of the very few topics where UO posters are rightfully cynical.  But there's plenty of positivity for most other Cleveland projects. This (and Burke) are somewhat outliers.

Thanks @TBideon… your comment makes me feel a bit better. I do hope the stadium issue will be resolved sooner rather than later. I would prefer any new stadium to be located downtown. This decision is so difficult and with so many variables. I hope that however this turns out it will be something that we all can be proud of! 

7 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said:

Also WWE Summerslam at the Browns stadium which is not as big as Wrestlemania but it is still a big draw. 

It’s their second biggest event. I’m honestly shocked we got it.

11 hours ago, Dino said:

  The last 2 stadiums built we Allegiant and SoFi.  Both are suburban and both are very, very close to the airport.  

Have you been to either of these stadiums?  I’ve been to both. Both are far from being “very suburban.”

 

I live in LA. Sofi stadium may be in Inglewood but it’s certainly not what would be considered the suburbs. Inglewood is about as dense as you can get without officially being in the city limits of LA.  Inglewood is sandwiched between LA city proper and the airport.

 

Allegiant in LV is right across the highway from the strip. Not suburban. 

3 hours ago, JB said:

It’s their second biggest event. I’m honestly shocked we got it.

Only because of Logan Paul being from Westlake 

On 4/5/2024 at 11:03 PM, BoomerangCleRes said:

Only because of Logan Paul being from Westlake 

Very disrespectful to the Mizz! 😅

On 4/5/2024 at 1:15 PM, LibertyBlvd said:

A Super Bowl is bigger than those.  It's not just the game but all the activities in the week prior to Super Bowl Sunday.  I'm not sure too many out-of-town folks would be excited about spending a week in Cleveland in mid-February.  And then there is the aforementioned hotel situation.

 

But Indianapolis really ups the ante? They get a ton of events there. And personally Cleveland is much cooler.
Did you see what happened around So-Fi during the Super Bowl weekend? Yikes.

25 minutes ago, yanni_gogolak said:

But Indianapolis really ups the ante? They get a ton of events there. And personally Cleveland is much cooler.
Did you see what happened around So-Fi during the Super Bowl weekend? Yikes.

The NCAA definitely helps

The NFL wants to open up the Superbowl bidding just like the draft rather than the same sunbelt cities taking it for granted that they'll get one every 5-10 years, they want it to be competitive. A city like Cleveland with an enclosed stadium in a central location close to event space and hotels absolutely can get a Superbowl in my view. Let's also not pretend that Vegas, Atlanta etc are toasty at the start of February. Only really maybe Phoenix, Miami and Tampa are a good thing to be in at least the 70s weather wise.

12 hours ago, yanni_gogolak said:

But Indianapolis really ups the ante? They get a ton of events there. 

A look at the Lucas Oil Stadium calendar--8 events between now and 2029 (not counting Colts).  

 

It helps that Indy is home base for the NCAA and also the state capitol.   

 

Also--until ALL stadiums are domes, it doesn't' necessary help get on concert routings.   Domed stadiums just get the late spring and  fall dates.  The summer is filled with open-air stadiums.  

 

48 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

it doesn't' necessary help get on concert routings. 

It definitely doesn’t, I’m familiar with some of the logistics around concert touring and open air vs. domed doesn’t really have anything to do with it for the big summertime tours using stadiums. Most big acts don’t tour America in the winter many times they are on international dates in the fall and winter. 

Edited April 8, 20241 yr by 646empire

2 minutes ago, 646empire said:

It definitely doesn’t, I’m familiar with some of the logistics around concert touring and open air vs. domed doesn’t really have anything to do with it for the big summertime tours using stadiums. Most big acts don’t tour America in the winter many times they are on international dates in the fall and winter. 

 

Correct.  

FWIW - some info today from a friend who’s not an insider, but is solid second-ring connected. 
Brook Park it is. Fixed-dome stadium, 25-30k parking spaces, condos, hotels, restaurants. All funded by and owned by Haslam. 

1 hour ago, roman totale XVII said:

FWIW - some info today from a friend who’s not an insider, but is solid second-ring connected. 
Brook Park it is. Fixed-dome stadium, 25-30k parking spaces, condos, hotels, restaurants. All funded by and owned by Haslam. 

Glad to hear Haslam finally agreed to pick up the entire tab.  That is the way it should be.  I guess the Browns are done talking to the city, county and state.  No need.  Horrible location, but hey, it is not costing me a penny so go for it.

Edited April 9, 20241 yr by Htsguy

I’d hate to be Great Northern, Crocker Park or SouthPark if this happens. This just seems like a giant suburban shopping mall concept to me. 
 

2 hours ago, roman totale XVII said:

FWIW - some info today from a friend who’s not an insider, but is solid second-ring connected. 
Brook Park it is. Fixed-dome stadium, 25-30k parking spaces, condos, hotels, restaurants. All funded by and owned by Haslam. 

Well, he would be an anomaly in the NFL; I don’t believe any other team owner who wants a new stadium is fully funding the stadium 100% without any taxpayer help.

9 hours ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

Well, he would be an anomaly in the NFL; I don’t believe any other team owner who wants a new stadium is fully funding the stadium 100% without any taxpayer help.

Yeah almost sounds too good to be true. This isn't a huge open market like LA.

Edited April 9, 20241 yr by snakebite

10 hours ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

Well, he would be an anomaly in the NFL; I don’t believe any other team owner who wants a new stadium is fully funding the stadium 100% without any taxpayer help.

Jerry Jones in Dallas would be the only example that I'm aware of. 

10 hours ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

Well, he would be an anomaly in the NFL; I don’t believe any other team owner who wants a new stadium is fully funding the stadium 100% without any taxpayer help.

It was a broad statement, I’m sure Haslam will be looking for partner developers for things outside of the stadium. 

35 minutes ago, roman totale XVII said:

It was a broad statement, I’m sure Haslam will be looking for partner developers for things outside of the stadium. 

I am looking forward to possibly buying one of those condos you mentioned in your previous post.  I always wanted to live surrounded by dirty book stores and of course within yards of a major airport, freight rail lines and industrial facilities and just the general beauty of nearby Brookpark Rd.  The sea of surface parking for the dome stadium is also something that will attract me as I prefer that type of amenity versus a vibrant city scape.  Throw in the added bonus of miserable traffic multiple times a year and 70,000 people passing by my doorstep (with the added bonus of many of them being drunk out of their minds) and it will just be paradise.  Hopefully my unit will have a balcony so on quite mornings I can drink my coffee outside and listen to the traffic speeding on 71 and 480.  I know condos tend to be a tough sell in Cleveland versus other major metro areas for a variety of personal and financial reasons, but I am sure these babies will sell like hot cakes.

Edited April 9, 20241 yr by Htsguy

I get you're being goofy, but those condos would sell like hot cakes either as corporate housing or owner-occupied units. 

3 minutes ago, TBideon said:

I get you're being goofy, but those condos would sell like hot cakes either as corporate housing or owner-occupied units. 

I'll be less goofy.  I can see them selling as corporate housing since so close to the airport but a very tough sell owner-occupied.  So basically a glorified extended stay hotel which actually would make sense.

Jokes aside, I could see demand for basically every type of mixed use demand at the brook park site, except for residential. The proximity to the airport might allow it to support a hotel. Retail can be done (almost) anywhere with a quality anchor tenant and a good setup. Certain travel heavy businesses might prize proximity to the airport enough to put an office at the brook park site (or a small satellite office for a larger company).

 

But without significant build up first, I don't see the demand for residential, airport proximity (past a certain point) is generally a negative for residential, noise and traffic aren't exactly selling points. Some people really travel a lot, but at the point where you're traveling enough that walking distance to the airport is a selling point you don't really live anywhere. Maybe business people who work/live in a different city (fly in/out every weekend) might appreciate it, or people who work at the airport, but on the whole I'd think the demand for residential would be very weak. (Edit: I agree with the above, I could absolutely see an extended stay hotel)

 

I basically see the brook park development as an airport development with a stadium. The airport operates every day, the stadium maybe 20 days a year. The stadium will be icing on the cake, and may push some things over the edge, but fundamentally the airport will determine what makes sense and what doesn't.

Edited April 9, 20241 yr by Ethan

I know the airport Sheraton was saddled with debt and is facing demolition, that alone is a pretty negative for that type of development in that area for me, however whats hotel occupancy like otherwise around the airport these days?

LOL, Brook Park is suspiciously close to Berea, where I thought they had already bought land for a mixed use development.

1 hour ago, Cleburger said:

Jerry Jones in Dallas would be the only example that I'm aware of. 

I believe Jack Kent Cooke paid for RalJon Stadium, the Washington then-Redskins home in Landover, MD.  Of course that stadium was a much less grand, i.e. cheaper place than is being built today.

I would be more than surprised if this gets built without any taxpayer dollars.  New-build stadiums cost a ton and always require some type of public funding to work.

 

1) Buffalo Bills- $850 million in public funding in 2022.

2) Tennessee Titans- $1.2 billion in public funding in 2023.

3) Las Vegas- $750 million in public funding in 2016.

4) Jacksonville- seeking 50/50 split ($1.4 billion) in 2023.

5) Baltimore- $430 million in public funding for their renovation in 2023.

6) Atlanta- $700 million in public funding in 2014.

7) Cleveland- $0 in public funding???

 

The trend has been in the opposite direction for a long time and it's only getting more expensive to build a stadium. 

Edited April 9, 20241 yr by Oldmanladyluck

92.3 starting to sound more and more like a mouthpiece for the teams. Waxing lyrical over the Atlanta Battery as a like for like comparison to the Brook Park idea, totally ignorant of the circumstances. No mention at all of the size and dynamics of metro Atlanta or the fact you have huge companies with HQs and massive corporations with a significant presence on its door step. They actually said "make it like Crocker Park" in terms of making it workable year round.

 

 

Edited April 9, 20241 yr by snakebite

If Jimmy pays completely for a development at Brook Park, that makes me a lot more enthusiastic about the move. Remember how big a deal ARPA money was? That was like $540 million. Imagine if you could wave a wand and give the city 2x that, but the only condition was the Browns had to move to Brook Park. Good deal in my opinion.

Haslam's money = Haslam's decision...I'm totally good with them spending their money in Brook Park.   Let the city, county and state channel taxpayer dollars to the landbridge and economic growth initiatives.

13 hours ago, coneflower said:

I’d hate to be Great Northern, Crocker Park or SouthPark if this happens. This just seems like a giant suburban shopping mall concept to me. 
 

 

I wouldn't worry if I were them.  Those shopping centers are all much better positioned relative to the sort of shopper that can afford mall style boutique stores.  This Brookpark site is horribly located for high end retail.