Am I missing something here with these renderings? The bottom left looks like the arrivals pick up lane at Hopkins (which I suppose makes sense with this stupid location), the hotels or crappy office buildings look like GEIS has pre-value engineered them, and the stadium? looks like someone typed "random heap of geometric shapes" into a really bad AI. 

People will still be staying downtown. Go look at the Cardinals stadium in Glendale. Everyone still stays in Scottsdale and drives to the games 40 miles away, also, Cowboys in Irving, Dolphins in Miami Gardens... 

7 minutes ago, YO to the CLE said:

That's fine. I am going off of observations, so this may very well be true. I'd like to see those statistics if someone has them, but even so...8 days a year. And I would argue that a lot (not all) of those rooms would still be booked even if the stadium were in Brook Park for obvious reasons. 

 

This is the best I know of for downtown traffic data: https://www.downtowncleveland.com/data-dashboard

 

Nothing pops out that would show an outsized effect from the months the Browns would have home games (Sept - Dec) but it is by month so weekly would make it more clear. But it's hard to tell. At 5M in foot traffic a month a 60,000 home game is a drop in the bucket so it would be hard to extract anything without finding more details. Even hotel occupancy you can see tops out around 70% in early fall and it declines through football season but that could be due to a few things (I would guess mainly less travel outside of summer overall not specifically anything with Browns games). 

33 minutes ago, bumsquare said:

Always gotta have the fireworks lol

Pretty fireworks.  Nice for a fantasy rendering but would the FAA allow them so close to the airport?

Im with Matt above. The stadium may be playing homage to the industrial heritage, but it looks like a cluster&%**. 

6 minutes ago, dave2017 said:

This move to Brook Park would have a much larger effect than around 8 Browns' games per year. The goal is to make this a facility that is an entertainment/sports district year round.  Think of how many lost opportunities the downtown hotels and restaurants would lose. 

Now this is an argument that you can definitely make. My argument was more focused on the return on taxpayer investment being wildly overblown for the city. Now I would agree that the creation of a new entertainment district is going to have a poaching affect. That is...once it is fully built out. It all depends on what they can offer entertainment-wise that downtown or even a place like Crocker cannot. That is not a whole lot, but maybe they'll pull it off. If they offer sports betting, then I can definitely see that demographic favoring Brook Park over downtown. Cleveland is already a heavy sports bar city, so that's not a new concept by any means.

 

5 minutes ago, WindyBuckeye said:

Im with Matt above. The stadium may be playing homage to the industrial heritage, but it looks like a cluster&%**. 

This is just a conceptual proposal shown to give lawmakers a sense of the scale and context. From the sound of things this is not the final design.

Edited May 1, 20241 yr by Geowizical

6 minutes ago, dave2017 said:

This move to Brook Park would have a much larger effect than around 8 Browns' games per year. The goal is to make this a facility that is an entertainment/sports district year round.  Think of how many lost opportunities the downtown hotels and restaurants would lose. 

IF the Brookpark move happens I don't really see the loss to Downtown hotels/bars being all that much to be honest.  This development will be lucky to get more than one hotel which would be shared with normal airport use.  You have 30+ hotels downtown or near it so most people will still need to be staying downtown and going to the bars/restaurants near their hotels downtown before and after the events.

 

Brook Park stadium rendering confirmed real
By Ken Prendergast / May 1, 2024

 

NEOtrans has secured a copy of a rendering showing the proposed multipurpose domed stadium sought by the owner of the Cleveland Browns football team in the Cleveland suburb of Brook Park. NEOtrans has confirmed from two of its best stadium sources that the rendering is real. The sources were upset at whoever leaked the rendering.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2024/05/01/brook-park-stadium-rendering-confirmed-real/

10 minutes ago, Geowizical said:

This is just a conceptual proposal shown to give lawmakers a sense of the scale and context. From the sound of things this is not the final design.

We know its conceptual by the the sheer number of living trees lol.

Just now, Ineffable_Matt said:

We know its conceptual by the the sheer number of living trees lol.

 

And lacking an ocean of surface parking where the mixed use buildings are.

I previously posted that Haslam is living in a dreamworld if he thinks the various public entities are going to contribute more than a billion dollars towards the stadium project and addition millions for the extensive infrastructure improvements that would be necessary at this site.  However, that is nothing compared to the fantasy land he is living in if he believes a major entertainment district is going to pop up in Brookpark Ohio around his dome.  I envision a sea of surface parking with one mid range hotel (more because the area near the airport is really devoid of hotels compared to other cities) and a couple of bland national restaurant chains/sports bars that will be dead on a Monday night in January.

Edited May 1, 20241 yr by Htsguy

 

Quote

“It is 100 percent real,” said one of the sources, who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

 

“How the f— did you get that?” asked the other source.

 

ROFL, @KJP these have got to be the best email confirmation quotes I've ever seen.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, CbusG said:

Leaked rendering 

 

 

 

Really? Can't make out all of the details but at first glance it looks like a giant carport. Is that what a couple billion gets you these days?

Can we see a daytime rendering?

Im perfectly fine with this.  The development could go hand in hand with airport improvements from parking to much needed quality hotels in the airport area

This whole process seems incompetent and makes me doubt the whole venture. 

I just can't see a city like Brook Park, a city that struggles to fill a pothole, being able to take on this kind of infrastructure. Very curious to see if any sort of land swap occurs if this actually becomes the site.

Cleveland 19 has picked up the story. No new information though from what I can tell.

https://www.cleveland19.com/2024/05/01/browns-brook-park-dome-renderings-leaked/

42 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Brook Park stadium rendering confirmed real
By Ken Prendergast / May 1, 2024

 

The sources were upset at whoever leaked the rendering.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2024/05/01/brook-park-stadium-rendering-confirmed-real/

I thought it was common knowledge that lawmakers are physically incapable of keeping secrets?

15 minutes ago, Enginerd said:

I thought it was common knowledge that lawmakers are physically incapable of keeping secrets?

 

This couldn't have been captured by lawmakers. Their phones were collected and even if one kept a spare phone, this is not a photograph of the video presentation they were shown.

We can all agree on one thing. 

 

AI has a ways to go.

Ill bet the Haslams leaked it to provoke a response lol

 

1 minute ago, B767PILOT said:

Ill bet the Haslams leaked it to provoke a response lol

 

Haha I was thinking the same thing. They were probably convinced after the supposedly overwhelmingly positive feedback from their meeting the other day, and thought leaking this would get the public behind them too. 

8 minutes ago, B767PILOT said:

Ill bet the Haslams leaked it to provoke a response lol

 

 

A fellow member of the media was contacted by the Browns. They demanded to know where he got it. 

The garbage?

1 hour ago, cadmen said:

 

Really? Can't make out all of the details but at first glance it looks like a giant carport. Is that what a couple billion gets you these days?

Whats up with the architects these days??. Yikes. Just looked at the new Chiefs proposal and I’m not a fan of it either, same with the Bears.

 

These designs make the current open air stadiums look new again lol.

 

https://fox4kc.com/news/kansas-lawmakers-get-glimpse-of-chiefs-future-as-they-consider-star-bond-package/amp/

Edited May 1, 20241 yr by 646empire

I love that KJP has now blown up 2 large announcements (Sherwin and Browns) lol

 

Of course this came from the Browns. The fact they are asking where the media got it is irrelevant. I always ask who ate the last cookie too.

1 minute ago, YO to the CLE said:

I love that KJP has now blown up 2 large announcements (Sherwin and Browns) lol

 

 

And all of the Clinic facilities news, Progressive closing offices, GLBC to Avon, Amtrak stuff, GCRTA stuff, and lots of little stuff. We're usually first and always free!

Do we know when they'll generate images for the stadium that would replace this turd in 30 years?

I guess it’s been said in other ways but isn’t it safe to say the decision of where the stadium goes either lakefront or brook park will be dictated by the State not the browns at all. If jimmy only covers half then the location is 100% dependent on how much the state will give them right?

Edited May 1, 20241 yr by BoomerangCleRes

https://www.wkyc.com/video/sports/locked-on/lo-cleveland/ultimate-cleveland-sports-show//95-60629046-9875-4cc2-bc59-2ac6f16d6889

2 hours ago, YO to the CLE said:

That's fine. I am going off of observations, so this may very well be true. I'd like to see those statistics if someone has them, but even so...8 days a year. And I would argue that a lot (not all) of those rooms would still be booked even if the stadium were in Brook Park for obvious reasons. 

but its not 8 days a year..  Its whole weekends that people will book these hotels.  I dont have any numbers either but i do alot of work downtown.  Just this past year for the 49ers game, There were thousands of people here for the weekend.  I drove alot of them around. It was crazy with the amount of money they would spend.  I think its disingenuous to make the 8 days argument, when most home football games are a huge out of town draw for us.  I do not see the same thing with the NBA and MLB, sure there are some but football is a huge event in every city for every game. 

 

I have traveled the country to watch our teams play, when i go i go for multiple days in each city.  Thats what were are looking for her.  

2 hours ago, dave2017 said:

This move to Brook Park would have a much larger effect than around 8 Browns' games per year. The goal is to make this a facility that is an entertainment/sports district year round.  Think of how many lost opportunities the downtown hotels and restaurants would lose. 

I do not think Downtown would be hurt at all honestly.  I have a life goal to watch our sports teams play in every city.  I am currently working my way through MLB with 17 out 30 cites visited.  When i travel i always stay downtown and commute to the stadiums, either by public transit or through rideshare.  I am sure thats exactly what would happen here. 

Public pays 50% ???

never going pass. And it shouldn’t.

let the billionaires pay 100% 

16 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Unknown. The Browns never shared their latest structural assessment of the stadium. But an assessment conducted 10 years ago by Osborn and Osports showed...

 

"The framing system is exposed to environmental conditions like freeze/thaw cycles and large temperature fluctuations, which can accelerate the structure's deterioration over time."

 

That's something that wouldn't happen in a climate-controlled, domed stadium.

That depends where those columns are and how the mix is designed. It should be an entrained mix to begin with for the structure but the exterior columns will always be exposed unless you clad the stadium…

42 minutes ago, G00pie said:

but its not 8 days a year..  Its whole weekends that people will book these hotels.  I dont have any numbers either but i do alot of work downtown.  Just this past year for the 49ers game, There were thousands of people here for the weekend.  I drove alot of them around. It was crazy with the amount of money they would spend.  I think its disingenuous to make the 8 days argument, when most home football games are a huge out of town draw for us.  I do not see the same thing with the NBA and MLB, sure there are some but football is a huge event in every city for every game. 

 

I have traveled the country to watch our teams play, when i go i go for multiple days in each city.  Thats what were are looking for her.  

Even if the stadium is in Brook park though I think you would still find those same thousands of people downtown on event weekends because they will need somewhere to stay aside from whatever hotel is near the stadium/airport. Once they are downtown they would also have no reason to go to the stadium other than for event time with all the bars/restaurants near their hotels downtown.

I don’t see where the money is coming from for a stadium that doubles in price from 1.2 billion to 2.5 when the owner is asking for the same 50/50 split - I’d love for someone to explain that.  The Haslams  would be making a huge amount of money  from the new stadium  parking alone - and he’s not proposing a slightly larger owner funding contribution? 

So what’s the motivation for the city county state and public in general to pay 1.2 billion instead of 600,000?  

 

I also wonder - could the powers that be structure a deal that - if there really is  a 50/50 split to fund a Brookpark stadium that the Haslams  have to contribute “something”  to enable a redevelopment of the new stadium-less Cleveland lakefront? 
 

And ultimately, for the transformation of the city’s lakefront - I’m fine with the stadium moving - it’s just a shame it couldn’t have been to the east side of downtown or the post office site. A new “entertainment district” down there would’ve been a greater boost to the downtown economy than a suburban location -even though some will end up staying downtown - I’m sure there’s some  percentage that won’t. 

14 minutes ago, CleveFan said:

I don’t see where the money is coming from for a stadium that doubles in price from 1.2 billion to 2.5 when the owner is asking for the same 50/50 split - I’d love for someone to explain that.  The Haslams  would be making a huge amount of money  from the new stadium  parking alone - and he’s not proposing a slightly larger owner funding contribution? 

So what’s the motivation for the city county state and public in general to pay 1.2 billion instead of 600,000?  

 

I also wonder - could the powers that be structure a deal that - if there really is  a 50/50 split to fund a Brookpark stadium that the Haslams  have to contribute “something”  to enable a redevelopment of the new stadium-less Cleveland lakefront? 
 

And ultimately, for the transformation of the city’s lakefront - I’m fine with the stadium moving - it’s just a shame it couldn’t have been to the east side of downtown or the post office site. A new “entertainment district” down there would’ve been a greater boost to the downtown economy than a suburban location -even though some will end up staying downtown - I’m sure there’s some  percentage that won’t. 

It’s funny too because the haslams would implicitly make more revenue during non-game days being at the post office site or east of downtown by simply being closer to dense urban areas vs an airport 

8 minutes ago, CleveFan said:

And ultimately, for the transformation of the city’s lakefront - I’m fine with the stadium moving - it’s just a shame it couldn’t have been to the east side of downtown or the post office site. A new “entertainment district” down there would’ve been a greater boost to the downtown economy than a suburban location -even though some will end up staying downtown - I’m sure there’s some  percentage that won’t. 

Even if the Browns wind up in Brookpark, come on, we all know there won't be any real adjacent ballpark village or entertainment district.  At best we'll get Phase 1 and Only luxury apartments with empty retail downstairs and a nearby restaurant or two. The region is so saturated with entertainment districts, malls, lifestyle centers, etc, many of which are struggling, and this abysmal location does not help. Hey guys, let's go to Hopkins so we can get a meal at the new Chili's.

 

Jimmy and Dee would not waste time and money on an unnecessary retail/entertainment district when they'll already make a fortune with a subsidized stadium, parking, merchadise, and television rights. This is just a carrot.

1 hour ago, Justbuildit said:

Public pays 50% ???

never going pass. And it shouldn’t.

let the billionaires pay 100% 

There's going to public funds for sure and that will be for enhanced infrastructure. It's how those funds are raised is the delicate part

10 minutes ago, TBideon said:

Even if the Browns wind up in Brookpark, come on, we all know there won't be any real adjacent ballpark village or entertainment district.  At best we'll get Phase 1 and Only luxury apartments with empty retail downstairs and a nearby restaurant or two. The region is so saturated with entertainment districts, malls, lifestyle centers, etc, many of which are struggling, and this abysmal location does not help. Hey guys, let's go to Hopkins so we can get a meal at the new Chili's.

 

Jimmy and Dee would not waste time and money on an unnecessary retail/entertainment district when they'll already make a fortune with a subsidized stadium, parking, merchadise, and television rights. This is just a carrot.

Oh, come on. You know that EastSiders and wealthy west siders that live on the lake are going to flock to Brook Park for the lovely ambience. It’s not like they have other options or anything.🥴

Billionaires never spend their own money. And politicians always bow to billionaires.

39 minutes ago, Luke_S said:

 

Guardians own land around the current stadium to develop a ballpark village. They aren't leaving downtown. 

Exactly!  Baseball stadiums also seem to fit into the urban fabric of a downtown in a way that football stadium does not. Look at Progressive.  Football stadiums remind me of a big box store

Edited May 1, 20241 yr by B767PILOT

1 minute ago, B767PILOT said:

There's going to public funds for sure and that will be for enhanced infrastructure. It's how those funds are raised is the delicate part

Then this should go to referendum. If the region is willing to buy into this nonsense, then fair's fair.

 

Otherwise, let Jimmy fund it, share the profits, or we begin looking for a new owner,  even if that leads to the Browns moving to Utah or Texas.

6 minutes ago, B767PILOT said:

There's going to public funds for sure and that will be for enhanced infrastructure. It's how those funds are raised is the delicate part

As I understand it, the millions in enhanced infrastructure will be separate from and inaddition to the billion dollars Haslam is looking for to build the actual dome.

5 hours ago, TBideon said:

Even if the Browns wind up in Brookpark, come on, we all know there won't be any real adjacent ballpark village or entertainment district.  At best we'll get Phase 1 and Only luxury apartments with empty retail downstairs and a nearby restaurant or two. The region is so saturated with entertainment districts, malls, lifestyle centers, etc, many of which are struggling, and this abysmal location does not help. Hey guys, let's go to Hopkins so we can get a meal at the new Chili's.

 

Jimmy and Dee would not waste time and money on an unnecessary retail/entertainment district when they'll already make a fortune with a subsidized stadium, parking, merchadise, and television rights. This is just a carrot.

Come on, it would not be a Chili's. It would be a Joe Thomas Bar & Grille or "insert fan favorite browns player here" Steakhouse, which would serve Chili's-like quality food

Let's be real here, this looks like a Chat GP created rendering just to woo the public, which after listening to the local sports channels on radio seems like they have succeeded (these fans not even in Cuyahoga are so easily gullible when it comes to corporate entertainment complexes with no character to them whatsoever). I can't even tell which is the actual stadium. 

Lmao gotta love there is not one parking lot in the rendering, when we know Jimmy is doing this almost 100% to pocket all the parking revenue he isn't getting downtown. 

* FWIW I listened to Baskin & Phelps today and not a single person (aside from Baskin and Phelps) was supportive.  You know how people like to criticize architecture ;-)