June 17, 2024Jun 17 1 hour ago, cadmen said: Well if he wants a dome in BP his share will be around a billion so he'll need to sell an awful lot of drinks in his BP Browns vilage before he breaks even. I don't think he has the years in him. Even at those inflated drink prices in and around the dome that's STILL a lot of drinks to get back to zero. It won’t matter as long as the value of the franchise increases over time. Haslam (or his heirs) will make out just fine when they’re ready to sell the franchise in the future.
June 20, 2024Jun 20 Panel debated public funding for stadiums and the general consensus was to not cave in to demands. https://www.crainscleveland.com/sports-recreation/brian-kazys-panel-discuss-public-funding-cleveland-browns-stadium-plans
June 25, 2024Jun 25 Indianapolis' Lucas Oil Stadium - a model for the browns. https://www.crainscleveland.com/sports-recreation/lucas-oil-stadium-could-serve-model-cleveland-browns-dome
June 25, 2024Jun 25 The Charlotte Deal: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/40425682/charlotte-city-council-approves-carolina-panthers-stadium-renovation-plan You are definitely seeing a trend, stadium renovations not new venues are starting to take hold. Baltimore, Cincy, Pitts, Charlotte, Jacksonville etc. If your place isn’t a total dump like Buffalo or a giant/new market like Vegas there is very little public interest in constructing brand new 2 billion dollar stadiums. Even on the high end like Jacksonville or lower like Baltimore plans they are all still hundreds of millions cheaper than starting from scratch. Edited June 25, 2024Jun 25 by 646empire
June 25, 2024Jun 25 This is what the browns owners want in brook park. $65 parking for games and events.
June 25, 2024Jun 25 4 minutes ago, 646empire said: The Charlotte Deal: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/40425682/charlotte-city-council-approves-carolina-panthers-stadium-renovation-plan You are definitely seeing a trend, stadium renovations not new venues are starting to take hold. Baltimore, Cincy, Pitts, Charlotte, Jacksonville etc. If your place isn’t a total dump like Buffalo or a giant/new market like Vegas there is very little public interest in constructing brand new 2 billion dollar stadiums. Even on the high end like Jacksonville or lower like Baltimore plans they are all still hundreds of millions cheaper than starting from scratch. Good, most soccer stadiums are old and full of history, go that route.
June 25, 2024Jun 25 57 minutes ago, simplythis said: Indianapolis' Lucas Oil Stadium - a model for the browns. https://www.crainscleveland.com/sports-recreation/lucas-oil-stadium-could-serve-model-cleveland-browns-dome It’s funny because if Haslam copied the approach in Indy as described in this article, he’d be competing with the downtown convention center we just spent millions to renovate, which is double stupid for the region.
June 25, 2024Jun 25 They are getting Wrestlemania (a 2-night, mega revenue generating event), Summerslam (so are we!), and Royal Rumble. Indianapolis is doing something right there.
June 25, 2024Jun 25 1 hour ago, coneflower said: It’s funny because if Haslam copied the approach in Indy as described in this article, he’d be competing with the downtown convention center we just spent millions to renovate, which is double stupid for the region. Ya I hear Browns fans talk about Indy as an example for Brook Park too, ignoring that it's connected to like 6,000 hotel rooms and the city's convention center. That will never happen at Brook Park. Best case scenario is Brook Park ends up as a smaller version of Patriot Place, which has around 290 hotel rooms. But a lot of this idea is still possible with fixing up the current stadium and the land bridge.... Edited June 25, 2024Jun 25 by PlanCleveland Typo
June 25, 2024Jun 25 I used to go to GenCon every year, and posted this on Reddit when someone was claiming a Brook Park stadium could steal the largest events from Indy, or host a Super Bowl Quote Indy has 9000 downtown rooms, with 5000+ connected to their 600k sqft convention center (which is directly across the street from the stadium) via covered walkways. Cleveland has 5000 downtown rooms, with only a few hundred connected to a 400k sq ft convention center, and no rooms with similar access to the stadium via any nearby covered walkways The MSAs for both have a similar number of rooms though, at around 23k The best way to get huge events that overflow the convention center will be stadium renovation and the land bridge. Otherwise, a Brook Park stadium is just going to be in direct competition with the convention center for medium sized events, not an addition to it like Indy's set up. But I doubt anything could ever really steal the absolute largest events from Indy. As for a Super Bowl, it would require the Brook Park stadium, but it would probably also require 3 or 4 hotels built on premises that I doubt would ever be nearly full outside of the one week for the single Super Bowl that ever gets hosted. I will add the disclaimer that these numbers are just the best I could find on the internet, and I dont actually live in Cleveland yet (moving up in September) so a few assumptions could be incorrect Edited June 25, 2024Jun 25 by daybreaker
June 26, 2024Jun 26 12 hours ago, jmblec2 said: This is what the browns owners want in brook park. $65 parking for games and events. It's incredible how so many suburbanites think that 1) parking will be cheaper at a brookpark Jimmy World site that is solely owned by Jimmy compared to multiple downtown lots and a train stop literally right next door, and 2) traffic would be so much better at a suburban site with the infrastructure not built to handle tens of thousands of cars arriving and leaving all at once
June 26, 2024Jun 26 6 hours ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said: It's incredible how so many suburbanites think that 1) parking will be cheaper at a brookpark Jimmy World site that is solely owned by Jimmy compared to multiple downtown lots and a train stop literally right next door, and 2) traffic would be so much better at a suburban site with the infrastructure not built to handle tens of thousands of cars arriving and leaving all at once I've been arguing this with many suburban friends since this project debate was announced. They are brainwashed in thinking that parking downtown is expensive and parking in suburbia is free.
June 26, 2024Jun 26 5 hours ago, Cleburger said: I've been arguing this with many suburban friends since this project debate was announced. They are brainwashed in thinking that parking downtown is expensive and parking in suburbia is free. They must never have been to any other major league stadium in the country because every one I've been to that was located in the suburbs parking was way more expensive and it's annoying. I wonder what % of revenue for these owners come from parking? Would love to see the financials on that. I'm sure it's a sizable bit.
June 26, 2024Jun 26 3 hours ago, dwolfi01 said: They must never have been to any other major league stadium in the country because every one I've been to that was located in the suburbs parking was way more expensive and it's annoying. I wonder what % of revenue for these owners come from parking? Would love to see the financials on that. I'm sure it's a sizable bit. Not only that but other parking options nearby are generally nonexistent. The ballpark lot is generally the only option unlike stadiums located in urban areas. I have never paid for parking attending a Browns game my entire life. We always park on the street around superior and 18th or thereabouts and walk to the stadium.
June 27, 2024Jun 27 Bryant Francis worries about traffic snarls if the Browns relocate to Brook Park. https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/cleveland-hopkins-airport-director-worries-about-traffic-snarls-if-browns-relocate-to-brook-park/ar-BB1oZxGt?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=DCTS&cvid=73fd9dc0ab6f46b09132ee2c9825e110&ei=12
June 27, 2024Jun 27 In 2000 Hopkins handled 13.3 million people. Last year it handled 9.9 million people. That's a 25% dip in passengers. Not saying traffic also dipped 25%, but surely there is some effect. Ol' Hopkins can survive a handful of Sundays with a few dozen thousand extra cars heading to Jimmy Eat World. Edited June 27, 2024Jun 27 by TBideon
June 27, 2024Jun 27 I just know I hate driving that way already so I can only imagine seeing the one exit off of 71 getting backed up as people try to pile into the 1 giant parking lot all within 2 hours before game time. Is it the end of the world? no but it is annoying and hurts your fan experience.
June 27, 2024Jun 27 55 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: Bryant Francis worries about traffic snarls if the Browns relocate to Brook Park. As he should be. Traffic impact from Browns game would be a massive issue for airport users. Passenger numbers at CLE are nearly all O&D now, so traffic into the airport is likely comparable or worse then the 2000 era.
June 27, 2024Jun 27 Places like the hard rock stadium in Miami have satellite parking lots/utilize bus stations to mitigate traffic into events. So you park like 20 mins away and they bus you to the event in private charters. This is also not a great fan experience also the last bus to transfer you back to fairly soon after events which basically encourages the come and go mentality even more.
June 27, 2024Jun 27 28 minutes ago, TBideon said: In 2000 Hopkins handled 13.3 million people. Last year it handled 9.9 million people. That's a 25% dip in passengers. Not saying traffic also dipped 25%, but surely there is some effect. Ol' Hopkins can survive a handful of Sundays with a few dozen thousand extra cars heading to Jimmy Eat World. What about all the traffic 7 days a week going to the surrounding oasis of condos, apartments, restaurants, high end retail and specialty entertainment venues. You know all that stuff that is going to draw the population of Northeast Ohio and beyond to beautiful Brookpark Ohio. You know the stuff that is supposedly going to pay for the actual stadium. At least in somebody's dream. Oh and don't forget all the dirty book store traffic.
June 27, 2024Jun 27 35 minutes ago, TBideon said: In 2000 Hopkins handled 13.3 million people. Last year it handled 9.9 million people. That's a 25% dip in passengers. Not saying traffic also dipped 25%, but surely there is some effect. Actually, there is more traffic now because it is mostly locals using CLE. In 2000, when Hopkins was a Continental hub, a good percentage of people were just flying through CLE.
June 27, 2024Jun 27 Well that's it then. This forum has determined that Haslam will not be allowed to build in Brook Park. Excellent! I love it when I get my way. What's next on the agenda?
June 27, 2024Jun 27 54 minutes ago, TBideon said: In 2000 Hopkins handled 13.3 million people. Last year it handled 9.9 million people. That's a 25% dip in passengers. Not saying traffic also dipped 25%, but surely there is some effect. Ol' Hopkins can survive a handful of Sundays with a few dozen thousand extra cars heading to Jimmy Eat World. 12 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: Actually, there is more traffic now because it is mostly locals using CLE. In 2000, when Hopkins was a Continental hub, a good percentage of people were just flying through CLE. You beat me to it @LibertyBlvd . The drop in passengers between 2000 and 2023 is 100% the loss of connecting passengers from the then-Continental hub. In fact, in absolute terms CLE undoubtedly would have even lower total passenger numbers in 2023 if O&D passengers (aka flyers that start and end their trip in Cleveland) remained the same, but they have in fact gone way up since 2000 and made up that gap, as evidenced by the craziness in security lines never seen before, traffics jams in arrivals, parking shortages, etc. So that means, no, traffic has not dipped 25%. Maybe not up 25%, but it’s definitely increased. Hence Bryant’s legitimate concerns. Edited June 27, 2024Jun 27 by brtshrcegr
June 27, 2024Jun 27 1 hour ago, LibertyBlvd said: Bryant Francis worries about traffic snarls if the Browns relocate to Brook Park. https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/cleveland-hopkins-airport-director-worries-about-traffic-snarls-if-browns-relocate-to-brook-park/ar-BB1oZxGt?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=DCTS&cvid=73fd9dc0ab6f46b09132ee2c9825e110&ei=12 I still think my idea of using increased pay-parking at the Brookpark Rapid Station and "free" (a spiff to RTA being part of the parking fee) Rapid rides to/from the airport is a good one. The rapid ride would be shorter and faster than some of the satellite parking bus rides in Los Angeles, Washington, etc. Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
June 27, 2024Jun 27 53 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: Actually, there is more traffic now because it is mostly locals using CLE. In 2000, when Hopkins was a Continental hub, a good percentage of people were just flying through CLE. That is true. 98% of passengers through Hopkins last year were originating or at destination versus 60% at Hopkins peak in 08. Hopkins will see 10.5MM this year. We digress...
June 27, 2024Jun 27 As others have indicated, the overall traffic makeup at CLE is completely different than the hub days. On an almost daily basis, anyone who has sat on 237 or has gotten stuck on the frankly absurd "entrance" to the airport....a traffic light for 3 separate lanes of traffic can attest that the current infrastructure was not designed for an airport with the amount of non-connecting, origin and destination traffic the CLE currently has. Add 70,000 stadium fans plus tailgaters who all would have to use the same 2 exits as the airport, I think the concerns are more than warranted. Would there even be time to address numerous highway interchanges by the end of this decade? My guess is no, unless planning has already been in the works.
June 27, 2024Jun 27 Was listening to Baskin and Phelps on my way to lunch today and according to them the traffic problem a stadium in Brookpark will cause is actually really simple to solve. To them we just need to rethink our public transportation routes and instead of having a rapid line go through downtown we just need to build one along 480 from the eastern suburbs to the airport/new stadium completely skipping downtown and all will be solved.....
June 27, 2024Jun 27 2 minutes ago, TDi said: Was listening to Baskin and Phelps on my way to lunch today and according to them the traffic problem a stadium in Brookpark will cause is actually really simple to solve. To them we just need to rethink our public transportation routes and instead of having a rapid line go through downtown we just need to build one along 480 from the eastern suburbs to the airport/new stadium completely skipping downtown and all will be solved..... Love those guys but they don't know much else aside from discussing sports very politely haha.
June 27, 2024Jun 27 3 minutes ago, surfohio said: Love those guys but they don't know much else aside from discussing sports very politely haha. 6 minutes ago, TDi said: Was listening to Baskin and Phelps on my way to lunch today and according to them the traffic problem a stadium in Brookpark will cause is actually really simple to solve. To them we just need to rethink our public transportation routes and instead of having a rapid line go through downtown we just need to build one along 480 from the eastern suburbs to the airport/new stadium completely skipping downtown and all will be solved..... That's one way to get rid of the Express Lanes that serve no purpose. The wide median on the east side expressways were originally designed to accommodate trains, so they're not that crazy imho.
June 27, 2024Jun 27 10 minutes ago, ASP1984 said: That's one way to get rid of the Express Lanes that serve no purpose. The wide median on the east side expressways were originally designed to accommodate trains, so they're not that crazy imho. I guess.. but now not only are billions of dollars being spent on putting a stadium in Brookpark Ohio but now we also need to pay millions more just to actually get people there? Just seems like there's a better solution on a stadium location. Maybe somewhere that already has the public transportation infrastructure and multiple highways around it.
June 27, 2024Jun 27 13 minutes ago, ASP1984 said: That's one way to get rid of the Express Lanes that serve no purpose. The wide median on the east side expressways were originally designed to accommodate trains, so they're not that crazy imho. 480 and express lane commuter rail were listed in NOACA 2050 plan as possible projects. I doubt it's being viewed as a real possibility by them though. https://www.noaca.org/regional-planning/major-planning-documents In the eNEO2050 plan, first mention of it is on page 104.
June 27, 2024Jun 27 42 minutes ago, TDi said: I guess.. but now not only are billions of dollars being spent on putting a stadium in Brookpark Ohio but now we also need to pay millions more just to actually get people there? Just seems like there's a better solution on a stadium location. Maybe somewhere that already has the public transportation infrastructure and multiple highways around it. If the stadium is an excuse to invest in a meaningful public transportation network, so be it. It will serve more purposes than just Browns fans. Edited June 27, 2024Jun 27 by ASP1984
June 27, 2024Jun 27 1 hour ago, ASP1984 said: If the stadium is an excuse to invest in a meaningful public transportation network, so be it. It will serve more purposes than just Browns fans. We have woefully limited resources toward transportation as is. Until that changes it is hard not to envision a "robbing Peter to pay Paul" scenario by pouring money into this location.
June 27, 2024Jun 27 4 hours ago, TDi said: Was listening to Baskin and Phelps on my way to lunch today and according to them the traffic problem a stadium in Brookpark will cause is actually really simple to solve. To them we just need to rethink our public transportation routes and instead of having a rapid line go through downtown we just need to build one along 480 from the eastern suburbs to the airport/new stadium completely skipping downtown and all will be solved..... Frankly have to give it to them saying we should develop transit instead of saying we should widen the freeway (even if it doesn't go downtown). Progress atleast
June 28, 2024Jun 28 Building an extensive east-west rail corridor along 480 just to accommodate Browns traffic 8-10 days a year…… Not for daily commuters, people needing to get to jobs, etc. Browns fans are really something.
June 28, 2024Jun 28 Haslam’s mini-downtown – at Brook Park or Burke? By Ken Prendergast / June 28, 2024 The Haslam Sports Group plans more than a billion dollars worth of new development surrounding their proposed new domed stadium. But is that necessarily going to be in the Cleveland suburb of Brook Park? With an emerging effort by city officials to close and redevelop Burke Lakefront Airport, look for that site to be offered up as a location for the stadium and supportive development. Rumors are circulating that both could happen. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2024/06/28/haslams-mini-downtown-at-brook-park-or-burke/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 28, 2024Jun 28 Might be one of the biggest scoops in the modern history of the city. guessing no word on when the city plans to announce it.
June 28, 2024Jun 28 My understanding was that closing Burke would be a years, if not decades long process. Is this option assuming the closing process will be expedited beyond what was previously considered possible, or that the Browns new stadium plans will be significantly delayed? It seems like one of those, if not both is required for a new stadium at Burke.
June 28, 2024Jun 28 Now that is a well-researched article. Love love love all that data, KJP. Plus Bibb could pull a Daley. Worth the $33k fine, or whatever it would be today.
June 28, 2024Jun 28 Hey, the Supreme Court just wrecked the power of the regulatory state today. Dare the FAA to do something! 😂 This would be extremely cool, though.
June 29, 2024Jun 29 1 hour ago, BoomerangCleRes said: guessing no word on when the city plans to announce it. Assuming they do. Still just rumors. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 29, 2024Jun 29 1 hour ago, KJP said: Assuming they do. Still just rumors. Well a rumor that got you to write something, that’s certainly a step up from a rumor. never sure when to read between the lines with you but I’d assume they’re the only ones that would make the announcement, right? Since the city owns it and I’d assume they wouldn’t let the FAA or the haslems take the honors for their efforts
June 29, 2024Jun 29 3 hours ago, Ethan said: My understanding was that closing Burke would be a years, if not decades long process. Is this option assuming the closing process will be expedited beyond what was previously considered possible, or that the Browns new stadium plans will be significantly delayed? It seems like one of those, if not both is required for a new stadium at Burke. they could probably extend the lease at the current stadium 5 years or whatever they need to
June 29, 2024Jun 29 Surprised there's not a million replies to this story already. This is a dream scenario. UrbanOhio must have already gotten their weekends started!
June 29, 2024Jun 29 29 minutes ago, MostlyThere14 said: Surprised there's not a million replies to this story already. This is a dream scenario. UrbanOhio must have already gotten their weekends started! Oh I think a lot of us agree this is a dream scenario, but a lot of us are also battle hardened and don't want to get hurt either so we are holding back somewhat!
June 29, 2024Jun 29 This would be fantastic!! Maybe we can get a proper aquarium, a new fields museum, a planetarium and/or a Cleveland sports museum!!! Would go nice on the lake front surrounding by parks and residential!
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