37 minutes ago, BoomerangCleRes said:

I heard summer slam in Cleveland hit some records. Most attended summer slam in North American history (globally only passed by Wembley stadium), Most sold merch in history, also supposedly the largest gate in wrestling history which the previous record was $10.1 million 
 

 

I found some super cheap tickets and decided to go lol

 

Surprising re: attendance numbers - they had the city side nosebleeds covered up. 

 

 

For a brief moment we even got a blue screen of death (unintentional but lol)

 

 

9 hours ago, GISguy said:

 

I found some super cheap tickets and decided to go lol

 

Surprising re: attendance numbers - they had the city side nosebleeds covered up. 

 

 

For a brief moment we even got a blue screen of death (unintentional but lol)

 

 

That side had camera's on it and it also served as the side where the fireworks went off, so that can be the reason. But 57,791 is a great number, Downtown Cleveland was GRIDLOCKED, beautiful to see (Mainly because I rode the red line there). Also it amazes me with how grid locked it was when Downtown is technically over built road wise.

 

It’s Brook Park
By Ken Prendergast / August 6, 2024

 

In the coming weeks, the owners of the Cleveland Browns will reveal their plans to build a $3.6 billion domed stadium and associated development in the Cleveland suburb of Brook Park. According to public sector sources familiar with the plans, owners Jimmy and Dee Haslam have their capital funding identified for the stadium and a small first phase of development.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2024/08/06/its-brook-park/

5 hours ago, KJP said:

 

It’s Brook Park
By Ken Prendergast / August 6, 2024

 

In the coming weeks, the owners of the Cleveland Browns will reveal their plans to build a $3.6 billion domed stadium and associated development in the Cleveland suburb of Brook Park. According to public sector sources familiar with the plans, owners Jimmy and Dee Haslam have their capital funding identified for the stadium and a small first phase of development.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2024/08/06/its-brook-park/

 

Ken, did you crash your site with this news? I can't access the article or your blog landing page!

A dome will definitely pull potential revenue out of Cleveland, and a large amount.  If the plan for Brookpark is open air, why not, I wouldnt miss the stadium downtown.  However if a dome is being planned, I think the City needs to do all they can to retain it in Cleveland.

56 minutes ago, Luke_S said:

 

Ken, did you crash your site with this news? I can't access the article or your blog landing page!

 

Yep. Website is down and we're trying to fix it. Please check back with us later.

I keep seeing the argument that the stadium, even if properly maintained, will only last another 15 years. But there is never any evidence. Is it going to fall down on people in 15 years? The recent public reports say the building is in “good condition considering its age.” Even that is unclear, though. What is an acceptable age for a stadium?  The Lions played in the Silverdome 26 years and the Vikings played in the Metrodome around 31 years, so if the Browns make it to 2028 on the lakefront, then that actually would be in the same range.  

But the decision for the Haslams is a no brainer. How it is funded is the key thing and what financial obligation we are shouldering to benefit a family business. 

 

Edited August 6, 2024Aug 6 by coneflower

Im strangely ok with this because I think Brook Park is going to be an epic failure and all these fans excited for it will change their tune once they see the parking prices. I also think besides the before bar crowd downtown for games, downtown will not be as affected since most visitors will still stay downtown and enjoy downtown the day before and after games. Also the city is off the hook for funding and can focus on the river with Bedrock and that lakefront. At least Gilbert is focused on downtown.

Season ticket holder for 25 years......not happy!!!!!

On 8/2/2024 at 7:30 PM, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

That's the thing I wish these supporters would get. Jimmy's priority is getting that sweet parking revenue for tailgaiting that currently goes to the city government ie Muni lot 

 

It goes beyond that.   He wants the $$$ people are spending on tailgating and in the downtown bars.

1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

Yep. Website is down and we're trying to fix it. Please check back with us later.

 

After you're done explaining things to our local "mainstream" media on TAM, yes?

11 minutes ago, WindyBuckeye said:

Im strangely ok with this because I think Brook Park is going to be an epic failure and all these fans excited for it will change their tune once they see the parking prices. I also think besides the before bar crowd downtown for games, downtown will not be as affected since most visitors will still stay downtown and enjoy downtown the day before and after games. Also the city is off the hook for funding and can focus on the river with Bedrock and that lakefront. At least Gilbert is focused on downtown.

Exactly my feelings too.

 

What I don't understand is how the funding would work. What is the tax/financial burden of Cuyahoga County residents? Are we footing the cost or someone else. I don't really care where the stadium is built, I just can't stomach the idea of giving billionaires money through tax increases. 

Meh. I do like the energy the stadium brings downtown for 12-15 days a year (football and concerts etc), but happy to know that the decision has been made so everyone can move on. Only time will tell how things will really play out, but I honestly think Jimmy’s Dreamworld is never gonna happen. I hope all future game-goers like a lot of asphalt and Brook Park residents get ready for a lot of hassle and expense. 

As I posted up thread, I hope the city of Cleveland has the demo crew ready the day after the final game at CBS and pulls that sucker down stat. I can’t read Ken’s article, but I remain highly skeptical the new one will be ready on time. 

In the interim, a portion of the land of outside the Brook Park stadium will be used for parking lots but could be developed with parking garages to open up land for more hotels, restaurants, shops, health care facilities and multi-family housing. (Biggest thing I noticed in Kens article) Doubt this ever happens.

38 minutes ago, scg80 said:

Exactly my feelings too.

 

What I don't understand is how the funding would work. What is the tax/financial burden of Cuyahoga County residents? Are we footing the cost or someone else. I don't really care where the stadium is built, I just can't stomach the idea of giving billionaires money through tax increases. 

I don’t think the county would contribute any more than the current sin tax, and even that hasn’t been confirmed. The County has said they have not been party to any talks so far.

 

EDIT: I caught part of the interview with the city of Cleveland on ideastream, and they said they do not believe the Sin Tax would travel with the stadium to Brook Park.

Edited August 6, 2024Aug 6 by Enginerd

Really? The city will benefit from this and the stadium is falling apart?  Just reads like a shill piece of someone in the Browns pocket. They're doing a really good job of getting all those with a platform online whether it be radio, Cleveland.com etc to tow their party line.

 

Just some laughable bordering propaganda out there currently. I've been to stadiums that are "falling apart" in the minors, college sports and Europe, I guess basic is just what constitutes a death trap these days in the NFL. 

 

Also can't wait for them to steal other non football tenants from elsewhere in the region to try and sustain Disneyland. It's really going to make things that much better for everyone...

 

Not a penny for this horse s**t should go from the tax payer to this.

 

 

Edited August 6, 2024Aug 6 by snakebite

Odd to say that Cleveland will do better without the Browns and that Brook Park will do better with the Browns. I just don't see how this really benefits Cleveland in any significant way.

14 minutes ago, snakebite said:

Really? The city will benefit from this and the stadium is falling apart?  Just reads like a shill piece of someone in the Browns pocket. They're doing a really good job of getting all those with a platform online whether it be radio, Cleveland.com etc to tow their party line.

 

Just some laughable bordering propaganda out there currently. I've been to stadiums that are "falling apart" in the minors, college sports and Europe, I guess basic is just what constitutes a death trap these days in the NFL. 

 

Also can't wait for them to steal other non football tenants from elsewhere in the region to try and sustain Disneyland. It's really going to make things that much better for everyone...

 

Not a penny for this horse s**t should go from the tax payer to this.

 

 

100%. The stadium is “falling apart”? Please. This benefits absolutely nobody but the Haslams. I’m not sure why every media outlet is so willing to fall in line without any criticism. These people have proven over and over again that they are absolute frauds and crooks. All this “deal” does is add Cuyahoga county residents and leaders to the long list of people swindled by these corrupt hillbillies. 

So how long until the city drops plans for the other 30acres of lakefront land 

Edited August 6, 2024Aug 6 by BoomerangCleRes

Yeah, I don’t buy for a second the “it’s deteriorating rapidly”propaganda. Complete nonsense. But whatever it takes to get what they want. 

I’ll just toss in here that the Haslams threw a lavish fundraiser for the JD Vance senate campaign, so that’s the type of thing where your tax money will be going directly. 

1) hopefully this is primarily privately funded. 

 

2) hopefully the lakefront plans are updated to reflect the stadium land opening up. I think just filling in the new blank space would look and work fine. But I imagine the best option would modify the plans a bit to reflect the new reality. I hate to delay, but that's probably best. 

 

3) Brook Park may not be the best option, but it's far from the worst. It's connected to the redline and the airport. While I'm skeptical a mixed use development will succeed, it very much could. If it does it would be an excellent end of line (basically) TOD. Best case scenario is something like Van Aken. Probably too optimistic, but why not be optimistic? If successful, maybe it encourages more TOD on the west side rapid stops, unlikely , but we're being optimistic... 

This isn't hard to understand. The public's half is coming from taxes generated by the stadium and its activities. If Cleveland did this, it would lose millions from its general fund collected on income taxes from thousands of stadium workers. It's going to lose them anyway when the stadium leaves for Brook Park, which will get the new income tax revenue and use it to service bonds to build the stadium. That's just one piece of the puzzle. The only potential tax increase I'm aware of would be Brook Park's increase in admissions taxes for large events. Other than a new domed stadium and the already fading IX Center, what else is there?

 

How many acres of surface parking lots does the city own within a half-mile of the current stadium? The Muny Lot alone is 14 acres. All of those are candidates for redevelopment if and when the city decides to offer them and to devote its share of Low Income Housing Tax Credits to spur affordable/workforce housing on those lots. Transit-supportive housing densities are a minimum of 30 units per acre. Given the proximity to downtown, I think the Muny Lot could be double that, or 800 units x 1.5 people per unit = 1,200 people = $1.77 million per year in income taxes just from developing the Muny Lot. If it sells that land, the schools get the property taxes too. How many other surface parking lots (both public and private) are around the stadium that could go away and be developed with affordable/workforce housing and generate tax revenues that would exceed any losses from the income taxes generated by the stadium?

3 minutes ago, Ethan said:

1) hopefully this is primarily privately funded. 

Narrator: It wasn’t

11 minutes ago, KJP said:

This isn't hard to understand. The public's half is coming from taxes generated by the stadium and its activities. If Cleveland did this, it would lose millions from its general fund collected on income taxes from thousands of stadium workers. It's going to lose them anyway when the stadium leaves for Brook Park, which will get the new income tax revenue and use it to service bonds to build the stadium. That's just one piece of the puzzle. The only potential tax increase I'm aware of would be Brook Park's increase in admissions taxes for large events. Other than a new domed stadium and the already fading IX Center, what else is there?

 

How many acres of surface parking lots does the city own within a half-mile of the current stadium? The Muny Lot alone is 14 acres. All of those are candidates for redevelopment if and when the city decides to offer them and to devote its share of Low Income Housing Tax Credits to spur affordable/workforce housing on those lots. Transit-supportive housing densities are a minimum of 30 units per acre. Given the proximity to downtown, I think the Muny Lot could be double that, or 800 units x 1.5 people per unit = 1,200 people = $1.77 million per year in income taxes just from developing the Muny Lot. If it sells that land, the schools get the property taxes too. How many other surface parking lots (both public and private) are around the stadium that could go away and be developed with affordable/workforce housing and generate tax revenues that would exceed any losses from the income taxes generated by the stadium?

Does that public half include the $600 million in state funding? 

This article does a pretty good job laying  out what the City is currently spending on the Stadium and what they’re brining in. Sounds to me like it’s the Sin Tax + parking taxes, admission taxes and ~$2 million in general funds per year.

 

From that we can glean what the City will keep now that they’re off the hook.
 

https://signalcleveland.org/the-public-cost-of-cleveland-browns-stadium-hundreds-of-millions-and-counting/

Edited August 6, 2024Aug 6 by Enginerd

I’m so conflicted when it comes to this because on one hand, half of all NFL teams are either far away from their respective downtowns or in neighboring suburbs. I mean, clearly Kansas City hasn’t been suffering because their team is in a suburban enclave surrounded by a square mile of parking. On the other hand, teams like the Chiefs have consistently put out a good product so the unique location didn’t have to be a selling point. I feel that part of what actually brought people to Browns games was the surrounding area because the team has been such a dumpster fire but at least you could walk to bars to continue drinking away your sorrows. Maybe if the Cleveland Cosbies eventually win a Super Bowl this move won’t matter, but I for one would never want to watch a mediocre football team claw their way to .500 every year while surrounded by a Rockcino. My hope is that within the next 3 years as we are building the Brook Park site we actually put together a plan for the former stadium site as well as the Muni Lot that will benefit the city year round. But with most Browns news of the last 40 years, my initial response is frustration amidst a defeatist attitude. Also. Flying J sucks. 

36 minutes ago, dski44 said:

Season ticket holder for 25 years......not happy!!!!!

 

Depending on where your seats new will be in the new stadium, you may likely be paying thousands for the Personal Seat License (PSL) to just get the right to continue being a season ticket holder in the new venue. Tennessee and Buffalo fans are facing this now with their new stadiums. We are talking well over $10,000 for club and many lower bowl seats. The cheapest PSL's for the "worst" seats in the new stadium may be closer to the ~$1,000 mark. Even if current seasons ticket holders can swing the one time PSL, the significant ticket price increase may also turn them away. 

 

Thousands of people who gave significant portions of their lives over to the Browns will be priced out.

 

Season ticket holder shocked at $400,000 price tag to keep seats at the new Bills Stadium

'It's Wrong!' Buffalo Bills' Ticketing Prices Ripped by Erie County Executive

Bills fans are experiencing “major sticker shock” on PSL prices - "Melissa Taylor’s family has had season tickets for 56 years. She learned that the PSLs for her seats will cost $20,000 each when the new venue opens in 2026.

'It was heartbreaking,' she told the News. 'I walked out of there thinking, ‘Do I just have two seasons left?'"

 

4 minutes ago, bumsquare said:

Does that public half include the $600 million in state funding? 

Has anything been confirmed? Last I saw the house speaker said

 

“We don’t have $600 million to give. It’s really easy to not support it when you don’t have it.”

2 minutes ago, bumsquare said:

Does that public half include the $600 million in state funding? 

 

It remains to be seen how much state funding is provided, but from what I understand much of this is going to be state bonds retired by state income taxes generated by stadium activities and possibly other public revenues that are associated with the stadium. I don't know what all those are. One thing that is likely is that there is going to be a large chunk of brownfield and infrastructure grants for site clean up, sewers, other utilities, and roadways.

So I guess I'm saddened by the loss of the Factory of Sadness on the lakefront.  However... how many times in our lives have we gotten the chance to truly reimagine this plot of land on the lakefront?  This could become anything; and if the right amount of housing is there or on the Muny Lot as @KJP mentioned, there won't be a loss on tax revenue for the City.  

 

The possibilities are exciting, and right next to the soon-to-be-gone Burke (which I'm not that big on being developed, but that's just my opinion).  We'll see what comes of this when the time comes.  

Im ok with this....the move allows the city to truly open up the lakfront. If Burke also closes, imagine the canvas on which to design something meaningful and lasting. 

I just don’t want to hear one iota of b*tching from the suburbanites when they are stuck in traffic for two hours at the airport on game days. I’m surprised the state is going to pony up so much money, particularly given how much the infrastructure is gonna cost.

Hope this hurts all the parking lots downtown and causes them to look for alternative uses for their lots.  Wishful thinking I know.

20 minutes ago, Boaty McBoatface said:

I’m so conflicted when it comes to this because on one hand, half of all NFL teams are either far away from their respective downtowns or in neighboring suburbs. I mean, clearly Kansas City hasn’t been suffering because their team is in a suburban enclave surrounded by a square mile of parking. On the other hand, teams like the Chiefs have consistently put out a good product so the unique location didn’t have to be a selling point. I feel that part of what actually brought people to Browns games was the surrounding area because the team has been such a dumpster fire but at least you could walk to bars to continue drinking away your sorrows. Maybe if the Cleveland Cosbies eventually win a Super Bowl this move won’t matter, but I for one would never want to watch a mediocre football team claw their way to .500 every year while surrounded by a Rockcino. My hope is that within the next 3 years as we are building the Brook Park site we actually put together a plan for the former stadium site as well as the Muni Lot that will benefit the city year round. But with most Browns news of the last 40 years, my initial response is frustration amidst a defeatist attitude. Also. Flying J sucks. 

 

Truman Sports Complex is in an industrial dump of an area off i435/70 that in the 70's they thought would be a desirable suburb for years to come. No one would ever want to visit or live in this area otherwise - I live literally 15 minutes away. Due to the location of the stadiums it's why the success of the team on the field and the pop culture currently around the Chiefs has not actually contributed to any growth. All the growth in KC is in the suburbs. It's a suburban city with a suburban mentality and stuff like Brook Park just leads us down that road. Suburban stadiums, overbuilt grossly incentivized suburban retail and office space in an already over saturated market, extra lanes on already overbuilt highways that are not needed bar 10-12 days per year. Who needs public transport? As if the Browns care about building or repairing sidewalks adjacent to this development, they want people contained in their walled off world. 

 

Funnily the Chiefs are also now using the state of Kansas to access bonds to potentially build a domed stadium and mixed use development 15 miles west of Downtown near the KS speedway and MLS stadium. One of the most egregious examples of corporate welfare but much easier to publicly present than a blank check or allowing people to vote on. It's incredibly sneaky. I get there needs to be a give and take with stadium funding, especially in smaller to middling markets like Cleveland, but the NFL wish lists for stadium development is becoming absolutely ridiculous at this point. They are actually pretty disgusting when you factor in the wealth of the people making these requests.  

The Sunday day shift at Crazy Horse on Brook Park will get a personnel change... 

Is the Crazy Horse still open?  I thought all those places closed.

 

2 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said:

Is the Crazy Horse still open?  I thought all those places closed.

 

 

I wouldn't know lol - but I thought about it earlier today and had a hearty chuckle to myself... 

 

Nonetheless... speaking of car-centric problems - how will 71/237 deal with an exit ramp for an NFL stadium and an airport in such near proximity

Not gonna lie this move makes me happy because Cleveland is so much more than a football town and a good wake up call for people to reorient their lives around more fulfilling pursuits. For as great as drowning your sorrows in alcohol every Sunday can be, watching a bunch of dudes give each other concussions in tight pants lost its luster for me a long time ago. This is a great time for people to reconsider their life priorities. The City of Cleveland will be just fine - and probably better - with this opportunity to reimagine the lakefront and the opportunities it creates for Clevelanders to enjoy their time. 

 

This will also probably be great for the RTA.

 

Edited August 6, 2024Aug 6 by ASP1984

2 minutes ago, Ineffable_Matt said:

I just don’t want to hear one iota of b*tching from the suburbanites when they are stuck in traffic for two hours at the airport on game days. I’m surprised the state is going to pony up so much money, particularly given how much the infrastructure is gonna cost.

Pay $100 to park. Enjoy such wonderful amenities as an understaffed BW3 full of dirty tables and sold out of half of everything. A BJ's Brewhouse on a 2 hour wait, also out of their popular beers. There's a case of coors on ice, it will be ready soon! Several failed local concepts that have been half-assed into overgrown beer gardens only open 8-9 days a year. For some reason a Chick fil A that won't ever be open on gameday. Also, enjoy your hour wait to get out of the parking lot in the third quarter when the browns are down by 42!

 

*Digging for positives here. Does the airport redevelopment plan now add a huge parking garage to siphon some the 40,000+ parking spaces needed to make Haslam's Football Fortress work? Do they add a nice underground tunnel under 237?

This whole mess is another argument for the merger of the various municipalities into one larger county-wide city. Then, communities wouldn’t have to be pitted against each other.  Brook Park may be biting off more than they can chew.  They may find themselves owned by the Haslans. 

42 minutes ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

So I guess I'm saddened by the loss of the Factory of Sadness on the lakefront.  However... how many times in our lives have we gotten the chance to truly reimagine this plot of land on the lakefront?  This could become anything; and if the right amount of housing is there or on the Muny Lot as @KJP mentioned, there won't be a loss on tax revenue for the City.  

 

The possibilities are exciting, and right next to the soon-to-be-gone Burke (which I'm not that big on being developed, but that's just my opinion).  We'll see what comes of this when the time comes.  

 

I agree the lakefront acreage without the stadium will be much more valuable and offer a greater variety of development options.  The city's current plan (too much devoted to public use) will limit development to the point of possibly making it a huge money sink.

I just hope for city annexation of the land where the stadium and complex will sit 

5 minutes ago, ClevelandNative said:

I just hope for city annexation of the land where the stadium and complex will sit 

Funny enough, the city of Cleveland already owns the largest parcel of land within Brook Park's borders. 

10 minutes ago, ClevelandNative said:

I just hope for city annexation of the land where the stadium and complex will sit 

 

Impossible, if Brookpark opposes it.   They will.

11 minutes ago, ClevelandNative said:

I just hope for city annexation of the land where the stadium and complex will sit 

You almost feel like there may need to be some type of land share agreement.  I don’t know how much Brook Park can afford to expand their emergency services for the types of events (i.e. Browns games, Final 4s, Super Bowl, mega concerts) that this venue will undoubtedly draw.

17 minutes ago, OH_Really said:

This whole mess is another argument for the merger of the various municipalities into one larger county-wide city. 

 

Every time the argument is made for that, it poisons more modest efforts at regionalization.  Suburbanites (not just the politicians) do not want to hear it and state government has their back.   The Republicans in principle, the Democrats out of neccesity.

Just now, Sapper Daddy said:

You almost feel like there may need to be some type of land share agreement.  I don’t know how much Brook Park can afford to expand their emergency services for the types of events (i.e. Browns games, Final 4s, Super Bowl, mega concerts) that this venue will undoubtedly draw.

 

That's likely, as long as no one uses the a word.

31 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said:

Is the Crazy Horse still open?  I thought all those places closed.

 

 

LOL a few of the low end ones closed.    That's it.   Made the rounds a few weeks ago and they are thriving.   E$pecially downtown.

30 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

I wouldn't know lol - but I thought about it earlier today and had a hearty chuckle to myself... 

 

Nonetheless... speaking of car-centric problems - how will 71/237 deal with an exit ramp for an NFL stadium and an airport in such near proximity

 

I commented on X that it is going to resemble Blossom.