Alright, let's not get too far off topic.

Social media rife today after the latest humiliating loss with demands of no cash for Jimmy's stadium until the team can be competitive. 

 

Fans are really that fickle and it is that easy. Haslam has absolutely no momentum for this. No city or county cash, a state that isn't going to fork out considerably more than what the Bengals are going to get and now a dumpster fire of a team led by one of the least likeable players in the whole league.

Edited October 6, 2024Oct 6 by snakebite

My opinion: the Browns going 1-16 or 3-31 or 6-45 probably won't affect Bibb's initial offer and whatever the state and county may kick in. 

 

Look at the goodwill the Chiefs have developed during their 11-year boom period, yet Missouri voters still voted against Sherman and Donovan's grift. Bless 'em.

 

 

Edited October 7, 2024Oct 7 by TBideon

I think when we're talking about finding a couple billion public dollars to build a football palace and ancilary development how the team is playing at the time of the ask does play into it. Especially when the whole thing is touch and go.

 

I was already on the side of a dome is just too expensive regardless of what Haslam prefers. Even in a country where there is little pushback on billionares getting what they want several billion is probably a billion to much. At this point l think it comes down to rebuilding on the lakefront or Haslam moving the team and l think that is unlikely. From what l've read Haslam is not all that popular in the owners club so they would be reluctant to allow him to move the team. 

Incoming

 

13 minutes ago, KJP said:

Incoming

 

 

The stadium's already falling apart (apparently) the last thing it needs is to be bombed.

6 minutes ago, GISguy said:

 

The stadium's already falling apart (apparently) the last thing it needs is to be bombed.

Nah, the Browns are moving to Baltimore

Baltimore, Ohio?

 

Don't give Jimmy any ideas.

 

Clock expires on keeping Browns downtown
By Ken Prendergast / October 11, 2024

 

It seems that the clock has run out on city of Cleveland and Cuyahoga County leaders on keeping the stadium downtown for the Cleveland Browns football team’s home games. NEOtrans has learned that the Browns’ owners, the Haslam Sports Group, are due to make an announcement soon, possibly by the end of this month, that they will put all their efforts into building a new covered stadium in suburban Brook Park.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2024/10/11/clock-expires-on-keeping-browns-downtown/

Great article. My favorite quote is: “Private equity could accelerate these developments, turning stadiums into vibrant, multifaceted hubs for sports and entertainment,” he wrote.

 

Because when you think about high-quality products built to last, you immediately think private equity 😆  

 

I'm not a financial expert but this seems like the worst possible time for them to look for private equity investment when the fanbase is in open rebellion and their roster and payroll are a complete mess indefinitely. 

Edited October 11, 2024Oct 11 by coneflower

Does this mean the Browns are willing to move to Brook Park even if they can't get $1,200,000,000 from taxpayers? If so I consider this a massive win. Stadium off the lakefront, new likely domed stadium, minimal public expense, possible mixed use TOD located next to airport and redline. 

 

I know a lot of people want to keep the stadium downtown, but there's a lot of upside to this deal, and if the County holds firm on not funding this, then I'm thrilled! There are so many better use for downtown adjacent lakefront land, as long as this doesn't stall the current lakefront plan, I think the upsides outweigh the downsides. 

The value of the Browns will spike after a new facility is built. Haslem is 70. Ownership wants this done sooner rather than later. Perhaps tht team will be worth 10 bil once the doom is finished.

 

Do you see where I am going with this?

Make no mistake, there WILL be County and State funds used here. They will protest for show but will pony up in the end

Hopefully the ballpark village turns out very well. I'm thoroughly whelmed.

Hopefully Jimmy makes better real estate and capital investment decisions than he does with Quarterbacks.    Given his experience with developing farm land at freeway exits, the Brookpark site stands to be quite the boondoggle!  

Enjoy raising several billion dollars in bonds, Brookpark. I don't see DeWine or Cuyahoga wasting limited funds on a suburb project, even if the team weren't on pace to be 3-14.

I know people don't think the teams performance matters in issues like this, but we are now at 30 years since we had  a watchable product on the field. 

I think the county can tell them they won't provide for this project and the people will understand. 

34 minutes ago, B767PILOT said:

Make no mistake, there WILL be County and State funds used here. They will protest for show but will pony up in the end

 

Totally agree. Relocation is probably on the table if they don't. Haslam stinks. 

18 minutes ago, Whipjacka said:

I know people don't think the teams performance matters in issues like this, but we are now at 30 years since we had  a watchable product on the field. 

I think the county can tell them they won't provide for this project and the people will understand. 

 

Not quite true.  The 2020 team was a piece of officiating malpractice away from the AFC championship game, and the 2023 team made the playoffs and was 8-1 at home.   

If Jimmy ponies up the entire cost i think everyone is OK with it.

41 minutes ago, MostlyThere14 said:

 

Totally agree. Relocation is probably on the table if they don't. Haslam stinks. 

There are a lot of Sunbelt cities that will gladly provide funding at the expense of public services.  I used to live in the South, so I know how it goes down there.

59 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

Hopefully Jimmy makes better real estate and capital investment decisions than he does with Quarterbacks.    Given his experience with developing farm land at freeway exits, the Brookpark site stands to be quite the boondoggle!  

We need to set some odds BROUGHT TO YOU BY FAN DUEL™️ on how much of the claimed $1.4 billion in other development he actually builds. I'll set the initial over/under at $150 million with around 150 hotel rooms, a BW3, Joe Thomas BBQ, and BJs Brewhouse. 

 

 

I get why Jimmy wants his new palace before he's 85, but it still stinks. Hopefully there is some way he can talk Edens into an Ohio Brightline and their fancy Cleveland airport station can be part of the development. 

😂

 

1970s/80's suburban movement in full swing in Cleveland. My only hope now is the county don't cave into their blackmail and give them any cash or incentives.

1 hour ago, E Rocc said:

 

Not quite true.  The 2020 team was a piece of officiating malpractice away from the AFC championship game, and the 2023 team made the playoffs and was 8-1 at home.   

 

The Browns are 51-50-1 since their winless season including playoffs. That's mediocre. Yet they generated $600 million in revenue last year.

 

There are two entities in America that are legally allowed to print money: the US Mint and an NFL franchise. 

1 hour ago, TBideon said:

Enjoy raising several billion dollars in bonds, Brookpark. I don't see DeWine or Cuyahoga wasting limited funds on a suburb project, even if the team weren't on pace to be 3-14.

 

I wonder if this can be tied in to landside airport improvements?  Construct new terminal/security, rental car facilites on the BP side. Connect the BP side with  airside concourses via train to run in a loop crossing all landside/airside facilities. Construct pkg garages BP side. Would free up airside property for future airpiort expansion. 

So lets say the Browns build in Brook Park and the county is able to make little to no direct financial contribution to construction costs.  I think they should still be pro-active about transportation infrastructure, namely connections to the Red Line.  A nice, high capacity, covered walkway over Rt. 237 to the airport and its RTA station is a legitimate governmental expense that would make this site much more connected to transit.  Maybe there could be improvements at Brookpark Station as well.  I'm not the first person to say these things, but what I've seen from the Browns' plans so far doesn't provide for any such connection, so the county should be pro-active about it.

Of course l'm in the "Keep the team downtown" camp but if Haslam builds a stadium without taxpayer money l'll consider that a pyrrhic victory. I can see government dollars spent on infrastructure around the stadium though. If Haslam were 10 years younger he might have been willing to wait for Burke but his age is forcing this now. 

 

If you can say a billionaire is snakebit by poor decision making it's Haslam. Pilot flying J crimes, bad coaching/front office decisions, worse idea to hamstrung the team with the Watson deal and finally, giving the middle finger to downtown in preference of suburban parking lots where at least he'll be able to recoup some of those wasted dollars by ripping off his loyal fans with first class parking prices. 

 

Go Browns!

20 minutes ago, ryanfrazier said:

So lets say the Browns build in Brook Park and the county is able to make little to no direct financial contribution to construction costs.  I think they should still be pro-active about transportation infrastructure, namely connections to the Red Line.  A nice, high capacity, covered walkway over Rt. 237 to the airport and its RTA station is a legitimate governmental expense that would make this site much more connected to transit.  Maybe there could be improvements at Brookpark Station as well.  I'm not the first person to say these things, but what I've seen from the Browns' plans so far doesn't provide for any such connection, so the county should be pro-active about it.

^This. IMO the county should only be asked and only be willing to help foot part of the bill if that part of the bill is RTA/airport-related infrastructure.

Season ticket holders...start saving up. We are going to be paying for the majority this...as we should. It going to be steep. Be prepared.

If County/State Bonds are used, why not make the risk fall totally on the Browns. Make the State/County monies a low interest loan. Make the Browns liable for full repayment the same way United was on the hook for Terminal D. 

1 hour ago, YABO713 said:

 

Still processing this story and waiting for Royayne and Bibb to stick their heads out...until then we do not trust DeWine - he after all was attorney general and filed the Modell lawsuit as a tactic to keep the crew in C-bus. It was never tested beyond that as a deal was very qucikly made to get Jimmy boy the team. How close is DeWine to the Haslam clan since Jimmy's billionaire brother was TN governor at that time of DeWine's suit and they all moved within the Bush/Cheney orbit together. So the law was never tested beyond that as it quickly served as the needed leverage to get Jimmy boy the team. Not sure what his end game is with our situation - is it simply a Brook Park dome and playground and wanting to leave his 3 children a legacy or is it to provoke a fight with northeast ohio so he can cite a lack of community support like Modell and quickly jettison the team to welcoming C-Bus or elsewhere (while sabotaging the Browns' on field play to depress intertest and opposition to a move) - after the law's 6-month cooling off period.  I hope our leaders are tougher than the mayor who lost us the Browns for 3 years and brought us to this point in history again. Also, where is NOACA's pre-emptive strike against earmarking sparse transportation for the obvious infrastructure needed to access the propopsed playground. While this plays out this story seems to have the basics on the Modell law.

https://www.sportico.com/law/analysis/2024/cleveland-browns-stadium-modell-law-1234778742/

Also if Jimmy boy can do this adjacent to downtown Columbus why isn't he doing the same here? Why doesn't the argument he used to move the Crew from the privately funded soccer-specifc stadium just built in 2000 or so next to I-71 (surrounding area simiar to the BP location) with lots of developable land for a playground and instead leave it behind so soon to build new again but in downtown Columbus? Something is off with this group regarding their Browns plans - Haslam Sport Group that is...

 

Edited October 11, 2024Oct 11 by Willo

50 minutes ago, ryanfrazier said:

So lets say the Browns build in Brook Park and the county is able to make little to no direct financial contribution to construction costs.  I think they should still be pro-active about transportation infrastructure, namely connections to the Red Line.  A nice, high capacity, covered walkway over Rt. 237 to the airport and its RTA station is a legitimate governmental expense that would make this site much more connected to transit.  Maybe there could be improvements at Brookpark Station as well.  I'm not the first person to say these things, but what I've seen from the Browns' plans so far doesn't provide for any such connection, so the county should be pro-active about it.

If this comes to pass with Brook Park, Haslam Sports Group should pay for any infrastructure including upgraded transit or walkways.  We are already trying to pay for a new $2 Billion airport to replace our current tarmac-adjacent bus station - not to mention critical BRTs, greenways and other area transportation updgrades now in line - and we do not need this playground to jump to the front of the line and undermine those for a billionaire family worth at least 14 Billion combined.

There will be little infrastructure work in the surrounding area beyond perhaps some highway ramps IMO. Jimmy Haslam does not want sidewalks or street lighting or anything pedestrian friendly on Snow or Engle Rd which could bleed attendees to adjacent cheaper parking lots, bars etc, he will know for instance that there is a ton of nearby airport parking that can eat into his bottom line if it is more accessible and people can avoid traffic jams. He wants his walled off world and thats that. 

 

Edited October 11, 2024Oct 11 by snakebite

25 minutes ago, Willo said:

"while sabotaging the Browns' on field play to depress interest ..."

 

 Unfortunately, it seems like the Browns regularly find a way to do this with or without any owner's meddling...  

18 minutes ago, Willo said:

If this comes to pass with Brook Park, Haslam Sports Group should pay for any infrastructure including upgraded transit or walkways.  We are already trying to pay for a new $2 Billion airport to replace our current tarmac-adjacent bus station - not to mention critical BRTs, greenways and other area transportation updgrades now in line - and we do not need this playground to jump to the front of the line and undermine those for a billionaire family worth at least 14 Billion combined.

This.  Why should the county prioritize anything at this desolate spot when there are so many other infrastructure needs that have been pending in the county for a long time. I’m not just talking about transportation.  Why should the county offer any significant funds for a 10 game a year (as I still don’t believe any of the surrounding stuff will ever get built and it will just be a sea of parking) playground when the jail and the county courthouse, two major expenses that will strain the counties bonding ability, among other large and small projects which have been pending for a long time, have to be funded. Most other infrastructure projects are way more important and again have been pending for a long time.

@KJP As always, thank you for your reports. If it weren't for you I doubt we would hear anything.  I am so over these greedy owners whom try to sell us taxpayers that new and shiny is needed.  There is nothing in this site that makes it better for the city or the existing entertainment/restaurants to thrive.   This is nothing more than a billionaire wanting to take everything that works downtown and pocket all too himself.   Just ask yourself how much you will pay for parking and tickets to their stadium?  I don't like the idea that Cleveland Browns will now play in a glorified mall setup.   Shameful and I will no longer support the team.  This is the straw that broke the camel's back for me.  Cuyahoga County taxpayers and  Cleveland should refuse to pay anything for this. Let it be on Brook Park residents and the state to come up with the money.

Hate to suck up oxygen on the Browns while the Guardians are hot but spotted some nuggets in NYTs on equity investments as mentioned in the KJP story and the owners' insatiable greed:

 

...By year’s end, owners of N.F.L. teams, worth on average $6.5 billion, may get nine-figure checks to help pay for new stadiums, buy out partners or retire debt.

 

...Private equity firms have access to billions of dollars and have been eager investors in the sports world. But they have a reputation for slashing costs at companies they acquire and flipping them for a quick profit, potential turmoil the N.F.L. owners want to avoid.

 

So last year, Mr. Goodell created a committee that included Mr. Hunt, Mr. Kraft, the Atlanta Falcons owner Arthur Blank, the Cleveland Browns owner Jimmy Haslam, the Denver Broncos chief executive Greg Penner and the Commanders owner Josh Harris to design rules so teams could tap private equity money while keeping the firms at arms length.

 

At a meeting in August, the league’s owners approved investment by four private equity groups. Three of them — Arctos, Sixth Street and Ares Management — can invest in no more than six teams at a time. The fourth group, a consortium that includes Blackstone and the Carlyle Group, can invest in up to 12 teams.

 

“We tried to talk to people who we think are in the know, and I think we were patient on this,” Mr. Goodell said to reporters after the meeting. “We hope by taking what we think are the blue-chip firms that this will be a successful approach for everyone at the N.F.L., the investors and the firms. So we think we found the right model.”

 

Seems Jimmy is poised to squeeze as much profit as fast as he can before dumping and running leaving behind a multi-billion dollar brook park ghost town.  Explains why he can't wait for Burke to be available to do what he had proclaimed wanting in the past -stay downtown. How soon does the NFL increase 10% private equity to more...

 

https://archive.is/K2joW

 

Sorry, this is more of a rant than anything constructive. I'm sure you'll understand.

 

I don't know what the fuss is when the Muni Lot is still a remnant of what we know about utility and how to purpose our land. We have a stadium with land next to it. If need be, we can demolish it for whoever knows what reasons, and build next to it like they did with Muni and Huntington. The only difference beforehand is we didn't have a team yet, but now we have the land. The benefit to this is you can still operate a team while you build your new palace next door as a preview.

 

Whether or not a new stadium is warranted or if the citizens of Cleveland or Cuyahoga County even want one without an adequate performing team, you can say that moving the team out of downtown is probably not the best idea. The area is already geared for inflated traffic, public transit, and it's a walkable area or even more walkable if they decide to build the land bridge. Spitballing, and going against what the city is going to offer them, is a surefire way to lose your main customers.

 

I'm very afraid the driving reason this is a big talking point is that the Browns want to host a Superbowl. We possibly can, but the NFL mainly won't award contracts to outdoor venues or stadiums that lack capacity, which is why if the Hazlams wanted to, can build a retractable dome, but instead of upgrading what we got, we're choosing to demo it all and spare extra expense. I don't understand why we have to destroy a previous tradition to create something that should just differ in the football world. I don't understand how lack of capacity factors, but If the infrastructure is already there, why move it somewhere else to suck up to an organization that only awards it to you once in 50 years if at all.

 

Why spend more money when your current baseline stadium is practically already paid for?

Edited October 13, 2024Oct 13 by tastybunns

There is a long article in today's New York Times detailing the how and why NFL owner revenue has exploded recently and will continue unabated in the future.  After reading the article I am of the opinion that any governmental entity, at any level, are simply being played if they in any way subsize new stadium construction.  This is especially true since, as pointed out in the article, a huge demographic cannot even afford to attend games any more.

Another article today in Bloomberg. Not a lot of good press for Jimmy.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-10-06/nfl-cleveland-browns-join-chicago-nashville-in-domed-stadium-quest?cmpid=BBD101324_CITYLAB&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_term=241013&utm_campaign=citylabdaily

Yep, that's how it works. The NFL selling us something we don't want because it comes with something we DO want, which is football. It almost feels like that scenario where the dope dealer (NFL) gives away the first hit (a team) then after we're hooked we end up giving him enough money to buy himself a nice McMansion (dome stadium) in the 'burbs. Meanwhile we're addicted to the drug but now we're just poorer for the experience. 

 

I say this as a hardcore fan all of my life who is definitely hooked on sports. The beauty and emotionsl rush of the game has got me. I'm not even trying to get clean. There's more than one kind of addiction baby and most of us our hooked on something.

On 10/11/2024 at 3:41 PM, KJP said:

 

The Browns are 51-50-1 since their winless season including playoffs. That's mediocre. Yet they generated $600 million in revenue last year.

 

There are two entities in America that are legally allowed to print money: the US Mint and an NFL franchise. 

They haven’t had consecutive winning seasons in 35 years. 

1 hour ago, cadmen said:

Yep, that's how it works. The NFL selling us something we don't want because it comes with something we DO want, which is football. It almost feels like that scenario where the dope dealer (NFL) gives away the first hit (a team) then after we're hooked we end up giving him enough money to buy himself a nice McMansion (dome stadium) in the 'burbs. Meanwhile we're addicted to the drug but now we're just poorer for the experience. 

 

I say this as a hardcore fan all of my life who is definitely hooked on sports. The beauty and emotionsl rush of the game has got me. I'm not even trying to get clean. There's more than one kind of addiction baby and most of us our hooked on something.

 

I can assure you that drugs are a lot more entertaining than watching the NFL and the penalties called on virtually every play of the game. 

5 hours ago, cadmen said:

Yep, that's how it works. The NFL selling us something we don't want because it comes with something we DO want, which is football. It almost feels like that scenario where the dope dealer (NFL) gives away the first hit (a team) then after we're hooked we end up giving him enough money to buy himself a nice McMansion (dome stadium) in the 'burbs. Meanwhile we're addicted to the drug but now we're just poorer for the experience. 

 

I say this as a hardcore fan all of my life who is definitely hooked on sports. The beauty and emotionsl rush of the game has got me. I'm not even trying to get clean. There's more than one kind of addiction baby and most of us our hooked on something.

I’ve given up on the NFL and especially the Browns. I haven’t watched a Browns game all season. I had season tickets for 16 years, gave up my season tickets after the 2015 season. I’ve been to one game since and I live a quarter mile from the stadium.

Well you are definitely a better man than l. Congrats on getting clean.

3 hours ago, cadmen said:

Well you are definitely a better man than l. Congrats on getting clean.

 

3 hours ago, cadmen said:

Well you are definitely a better man than l. Congrats on getting clean.

Thank you sir. It took a while to get there.

On 10/11/2024 at 4:55 PM, Willo said:

Still processing this story and waiting for Royayne and Bibb to stick their heads out...

 

That's not exactly their forte.

Another stadium deal done. This one is for the Jaguars.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/41815188/nfl-owners-unanimously-approve-jaguars-14b-stadium-renovation

1 hour ago, MyPhoneDead said:

Another stadium deal done. This one is for the Jaguars.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/41815188/nfl-owners-unanimously-approve-jaguars-14b-stadium-renovation

 

Fun fact: the guy I bought my house from was leaving Cleveland (following the Progressive Field renovations) to go to Jacksonville to lead the rebuild there.