November 27, 2024Nov 27 9 hours ago, GISguy said: I could be totally making this up but didn't the current stadium have psls until recently? I think the ones in 99 were only (I say loosely...) about $500 for general seating. Not sure about corporate or suites. If PSLs are to be tapped as an important funding source I'd be stunned if someone was only paying $500, even in the nosebleeds. Corporate will be in the thousands.
November 27, 2024Nov 27 2 minutes ago, snakebite said: I think the ones in 99 were only (I say loosely...) about $500 for general seating. Not sure about corporate or suites. If PSLs are to be tapped as an important funding source I'd be stunned if someone was only paying $500, even in the nosebleeds. Corporate will be in the thousands. For reference, my wife's family are season ticket holders for the Bills in Orchard Park. They have nice seats in the lower level endzone (similar to our dog pound), and they are hearing PSLs will be $5-10,000 A SEAT. The Bills are definitely getting an earful from the fan base so it will be interesting to see where these numbers land.
December 12, 2024Dec 12 Ken you haven’t posted it here yet but fantastic piece, insane insider info. Might be my favorite article you’ve written. Fantastic work!
December 13, 2024Dec 13 Is the governor a downtown guy. Governor wants what is best for Ohio. https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/cleveland-browns-domed-stadium-funding-ohio-governor-mike-dewine-state-public-funds-brook-park-lakefront/95-9d3bc11b-3f32-4665-ab30-cd97e42affdd
December 13, 2024Dec 13 Judge grants 30 day extension on hearing. https://fox8.com/news/i-team-browns-want-answer-from-city-on-lawsuit-now/
December 14, 2024Dec 14 Dewine/Bibb Meeting https://www.cleveland19.com/2024/12/13/governor-dewine-cleveland-meeting-with-mayor-other-city-officials-about-browns-move-brook-park/
December 18, 2024Dec 18 Big news, also hopefully will drive prices down. Watching Messi in a soccer stadium it’s hard to get tickets less than 300 Edit: will say if I were a Columbus crew season ticket holder I’d probably be pissed Edited December 18, 2024Dec 18 by BoomerangCleRes
December 18, 2024Dec 18 Damn, Guardians are in Pittsburgh that weekend. I always like it when there are concurrent games downtown. First day of NBA playoffs, however, is that day, and the Cavs are certainly on their way to start the series at home. Should be a fun weekend!
December 18, 2024Dec 18 I went to Arrowhead this year when Messi played there. It was a record crowd for the venue IIRC. Whether hes still got the same appeal or he even plays that day though who knows. If people want to see him in the flesh in the US there have been plenty of opportunities already. I reckon tickets will end up cheap as chips. Freebies all over the place for youth soccer teams etc, actually that was how I went along, paid like nothing for a ticket handed out to a friends youth soccer team. Best thing to come from it might be the city being taken more seriously for USL or whatever if the turnout is strong, as simplistic as it is. Edited December 18, 2024Dec 18 by snakebite
December 18, 2024Dec 18 From the Columbus Dispatch... https://www.dispatch.com/story/sports/columns/2024/12/18/columbus-crew-moving-game-vs-lionel-messi-to-cleveland-inter-miami-jimmy-haslam/77057778007/
December 18, 2024Dec 18 LOL. Expected by many, but still sucks to see it happen. For a comparison - First imagine if the Browns were really good (multiple super bowls good), then move one of their marquee home games to OSU because its a bigger stadium. That sure wouldn't go over that well in Cleveland. I hope Messi doesn't play (and with the schedule congestion this season their is a good chance he won't). The Haslams better have enough free busses for Crew STH for this game at least. (I say this as a current Cleveland resident and devote Crew fan)
December 18, 2024Dec 18 Hopefully they sell out here in Cleveland. I just hope he is not using this game (as some giveback) as some reason to go to brook park.
December 20, 2024Dec 20 II would not be surprised if they don't even open the 500 level to be honest. Then Jimmy can tell us there is no demand for events Downtown.
December 30, 2024Dec 30 City of Cleveland will proceed with Modell lawsuit and seek new ownership if needed. https://fox8.com/news/i-team/i-team-blocking-browns-move-city-intends-to-enforce-modell-law/
December 30, 2024Dec 30 Stupid use of the trump card if you ask me. Just let them leave if Jimmy has to pay for it all himself.
December 30, 2024Dec 30 3 minutes ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said: Stupid use of the trump card if you ask me. Just let them leave if Jimmy has to pay for it all himself. When has Jimmy suggested that he would do that?
December 30, 2024Dec 30 13 minutes ago, X said: When has Jimmy suggested that he would do that? What I mean is, if Jimmy wants to leave so badly, just get friendly Chris Ronayne and absolutely refuse to financially assist Jimmy. If Jimmy is forced to pay it all to move, then so be it.
December 31, 2024Dec 31 Haslams respond to Cleveland mayor’s ‘Modell’ letter By Ken Prendergast / December 30, 2024 Ten days ago, NEOtrans broke the story that the city of Cleveland intended to pursue invoking “the Modell Law” against the Cleveland Browns in order to make them keep playing their home games within the city limits — and especially Downtown Cleveland. Today, the Cleveland Mayor Justin Bibb sent a letter to the Browns’ owners outlining the terms of how the city intends to do that. And now the Browns’ owners have responded. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2024/12/30/haslams-respond-to-cleveland-mayors-modell-letter/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 31, 2024Dec 31 Thank you @KJP for the excellent reporting of the continued stadium saga! I am appalled, but not surprised, at the arrogance the HSG continues to show us all. The way they want to skirt the "Modell Law" to fit their needs is sad since this law was to protect us taxpayers. Nobody that I have talked to like how The Haslams are acting. None of this is in the best interest for us but rather them. Nobody asked for a new district for taxpayers to foot half the bill and to take all momentum away from what we have contributed to the downtown revitalization. If they want to show us what we could get for a billion dollar renovation to the existing stadium than maybe I will listen to their argument. I roofed stadium is not something I craved. I am a diehard fan that believes football should be played outdoors. Weather and natural grass is the way it should be played. The lakefront location is the historic location that all Browns' games have been played since they were founded. I applaud the city for sticking to their position and not caving into The Halsam's plan
December 31, 2024Dec 31 Here's what I don't like about the law and how vaguely it is written. Even if the law isn't turned over as unconstitutional, how does "the opportunity to purchase the team" help anyone? Say the Browns are worth $6 billion. What's to stop the Haslems from saying, "Our valuation (or listing price) of the team is $10 billion (or $30 billion for that matter), so please let us know who's ready to buy it." Or would a court step in to set a reasonable selling price? That seems like a lot of legal wrangling from hell. Edited December 31, 2024Dec 31 by Paul in Cleveland
December 31, 2024Dec 31 Is there something the taxpayers could do to compel the release of the lakefront plans? We all know they exist, and the stadium is owned by the city. I'm guessing the project team is under a what I'm assuming is a pretty punishing NDA from the Haslem's since nothing has leaked so far. It's clear that they don't want it out because it's probably a pretty compelling plan that the region would rally behind and probably even easily get all his public funding for, but there has to be something to compel it's release that can be done. If HSG wants our money for his vanity project, we deserve to be fully informed of the options.
December 31, 2024Dec 31 Hasn’t precedent for the Modell law already been established? https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2018/10/the_columbus_crew_had_been_sav.html
December 31, 2024Dec 31 MLS didn't want to go into discovery so they threw Columbus a bone and let them start an expansion team while keeping the Crew history and branding, to make the case go away. The Modell Law has never even reached the discovery phase. I've read legal experts who have said that the law wouldn't stand up in court and, while I'm no expert, I tend to agree with them. But the law has never been put through judicial scrutiny.
December 31, 2024Dec 31 4 minutes ago, JaceTheAce41 said: MLS didn't want to go into discovery so they threw Columbus a bone and let them start an expansion team while keeping the Crew history and branding, to make the case go away. The Modell Law has never even reached the discovery phase. I've read legal experts who have said that the law wouldn't stand up in court and, while I'm no expert, I tend to agree with them. But the law has never been put through judicial scrutiny. Yeah, I think the law would absolutely be a violation of the Commerce Clause and arguably the 5th and/or 14th Amendment as well.
December 31, 2024Dec 31 ^ If the law really is unconstitutional, I agree with other users that we should keep our powder dry and withhold application of this law until a team is trying to leave the metro area. The real threat is the time/cost to prove the law unconstitutional. Basically it's a one shot weapon, I'd rather hold it in reserve for a more dire situation, preserve the threat/deterrence for next time.
December 31, 2024Dec 31 5 hours ago, Ethan said: ^ If the law really is unconstitutional, I agree with other users that we should keep our powder dry and withhold application of this law until a team is trying to leave the metro area. The real threat is the time/cost to prove the law unconstitutional. Basically it's a one shot weapon, I'd rather hold it in reserve for a more dire situation, preserve the threat/deterrence for next time. Agreed, suing under this law in this situation seems stupid. But this also could be a lot of posturing -- threatening to evoke the law is not the same as actually filing suit. Also, the NFL has a rule that teams cannot be publicly owned, so there may be additional roadblocks (in addition to the cost!) to the City of Cleveland being able to buy any of the team. I still think we should just let the Haslams build their Utopia and stop all the lawsuits. But I don't think the city or the county (or even the state) should be subsidizing their billionaire-dreams.
December 31, 2024Dec 31 https://www.news5cleveland.com/sports/browns/cleveland-leaders-browns-owners-spar-over-art-modell-law
January 1Jan 1 23 hours ago, Clefan98 said: Hasn’t precedent for the Modell law already been established? https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2018/10/the_columbus_crew_had_been_sav.html Should be interesting either way with top tier Jones Day on Cleveland's side this time. https://signalcleveland.org/cleveland-taps-jones-day-for-legal-fight-with-browns-over-modell-law/
January 1Jan 1 Even with Jones Day l expect Haslam to win out. I think history favors the (billionare) owners. Hope l'm wrong.
January 1Jan 1 1 hour ago, cadmen said: Even with Jones Day l expect Haslam to win out. I think history favors the (billionare) owners. Hope l'm wrong. When you say win out though that means that they won't be forced to sell the team, but that would not mean that the city/county/state would be forced to pay for what they want. I still don't see how they're going to get the public money they seek.
January 1Jan 1 Totally agree. Unless something gives l still don't see how Haslam gets the public funding to build his palace. I think he beats the Modell rule and then either there is some kind of compromise on location/funding or he ends up moving the team. He wins by beating the Modell rule. He wins if the local politicians agree to help fund it. He wins if he agrees to move to another city that throws money his way to facilitate the movement of the team. I think the owner still holds most of the cards and that's why the owner usually wins. Just like gambling, the house wins.
January 1Jan 1 Pretty good summary there. Even if the courts inexplicably support the Modell law, it's unclear if the NFL actually codified/incorporated it in some manner. I've seen contradicting "AI" summaries that say yes and no, and am finding no evidence of NFL involvement. Frankly, the law, even if constitutional, doesn't seem to have teeth beyond the Ohio General Assembly, and I suspect the NFL could disregard it. Frankly, I have a hunch other owners would never support a compulsory change in ownership and would sooner terminate the Browns from the league.
January 1Jan 1 1 hour ago, TBideon said: Frankly, I have a hunch other owners would never support a compulsory change in ownership and would sooner terminate the Browns from the league. Unless they have an axe to grind with Haslam...which they do. He single-handedly messed up the QB compensation market with the Watson deal.
January 2Jan 2 Perhaps, but there have been a lot of terrible contracts in NFL history, and the owners have survived. I'm sure Daniel Synder received a lot of criticism after the Haynesworth deal, but he still stuck around until 2023. Russell Wilson's is pretty egregious as well. Edited January 2Jan 2 by TBideon
January 2Jan 2 2 hours ago, Cleburger said: Unless they have an axe to grind with Haslam...which they do. He single-handedly messed up the QB compensation market with the Watson deal. Good point! They don't seem to make friends easily even within their clubby good ole boys network. This will be a wild ride until resolved. First up: Look forward to what Mayor Bibb has in mind during the six-month window to find other buyers. The NFL has a glaring need for an African-American majority team ownership group of investors ASAP so why not the historic Browns franchise. Could be a window of oppirtunity to open. I am sure LeBron can scare up enough other minority investors to make an offer Roger Goodell and the other owners (and the media) could rally behind. Edited January 2Jan 2 by Willo
January 2Jan 2 Plain Dealer has a rare intertesting updated read: Put up or shut up Northeast Ohio: If we want a great airport and sports stadiums, let’s take another look at this bold idea We like the regional approach - may be late in the game but should be included in the current discussions and DeWines apparently still in progress listening tour.
January 2Jan 2 13 hours ago, Willo said: Good point! They don't seem to make friends easily even within their clubby good ole boys network. This will be a wild ride until resolved. First up: Look forward to what Mayor Bibb has in mind during the six-month window to find other buyers. The NFL has a glaring need for an African-American majority team ownership group of investors ASAP so why not the historic Browns franchise. Could be a window of oppirtunity to open. I am sure LeBron can scare up enough other minority investors to make an offer Roger Goodell and the other owners (and the media) could rally behind. I'd love to see a partnership of Lebron and Dan Gilbert. Will never happen as there is a lot of lost love between the two, but if it could would be the best possible scenario for the Browns, Cleveland and the urbanists of this forum.
January 2Jan 2 18 hours ago, TBideon said: Pretty good summary there. Even if the courts inexplicably support the Modell law, it's unclear if the NFL actually codified/incorporated it in some manner. I've seen contradicting "AI" summaries that say yes and no, and am finding no evidence of NFL involvement. Frankly, the law, even if constitutional, doesn't seem to have teeth beyond the Ohio General Assembly, and I suspect the NFL could disregard it. Frankly, I have a hunch other owners would never support a compulsory change in ownership and would sooner terminate the Browns from the league. They did so with the modells so it's not unprecedented. fArt was told to find a minority owner and the only way he could do so was if Biscotti was able to buy the entire team after three years.
January 2Jan 2 20 minutes ago, Cleburger said: I'd love to see a partnership of Lebron and Dan Gilbert. Will never happen as there is a lot of lost love between the two, but if it could would be the best possible scenario for the Browns, Cleveland and the urbanists of this forum. Sorry if this is off topic, but I guess with the city starting the Modell Law stuff it could be? Fenway Sports Group, which Lebron is a part of, doesn't own an NFL team yet. They also own the Red Sox, Liverpool, Pittsburgh Penguins, a NASCAR team, and some minor league teams. 2 of those teams are playing in 110 and 140 year old stadiums. While it's different because those are 2 of the most storied stadiums in use right now, they may not be as urgent with getting the Browns into a new stadium.
January 2Jan 2 30 minutes ago, Cleburger said: I'd love to see a partnership of Lebron and Dan Gilbert. Will never happen as there is a lot of lost love between the two, but if it could would be the best possible scenario for the Browns, Cleveland and the urbanists of this forum. I've said for a long time that I expect LeBron to eventually own an NBA team, most likely the Cavaliers. So he and his partners could conceivably buy out Gilbert, who could buy the Browns. He'd either have to retire or somehow get moved to the team he is going to buy. Edited January 2Jan 2 by E Rocc
January 2Jan 2 15 minutes ago, E Rocc said: I've said for a long time that I expect LeBron to eventually own an NBA team, most likely the Cavaliers. So he and his partners could conceivably buy out Gilbert, who could buy the Browns. He'd either have to retire or somehow get moved to the team he is going to buy. Lebron will most definitely retire a Cavalier? Even if on a one-day contract?
January 2Jan 2 37 minutes ago, E Rocc said: I've said for a long time that I expect LeBron to eventually own an NBA team, most likely the Cavaliers. So he and his partners could conceivably buy out Gilbert, who could buy the Browns. He'd either have to retire or somehow get moved to the team he is going to buy. Bron has been long tied to becoming owner of the soon to be Vegas team. Which makes more sense it’s a short trip from LA
January 2Jan 2 Maybe we'll get some of the existing conditions reports out of the discovery phase? I'm no lawyer, but I feel like peeling back the lid is probably more of an issue to Haslam's/NFL than winning the case.
January 2Jan 2 I believe the city or county own the existing condition reports, so I think a FOIA request would do it? Discovery of HSG's internal conversations about the process will be very fascinating, and likely very damning. Using my very much not a lawyer brain, I would expect the Haslem's to ask for court records to be sealed so they don't get out. Given their history, who knows, maybe we get something Jimmah said that's at least racially charged to start the process of forcing him to sell?
January 2Jan 2 Jimmy being forced to sell is as likely as bulldozers heading towards Burke. Either the bums are moving to Brookpark or another region. Since it's inevitable the Browns are leaving downtown, Bibb should begin soliciting bids to repurpose Browns stadium. A larger scale Bush Stadium apartments would be a neat and realistic(?) reuse. A number of stadiums in Europe have also turned into housing complexes so there's some precedent. Or a city within a city. Turn the stadium into a mixed use development. Or a dramatic expansion or consolidation of a local college or university. Make it one of a kind, a draw for those within and outside the region.
January 2Jan 2 1 hour ago, Cleburger said: I'd love to see a partnership of Lebron and Dan Gilbert. Will never happen as there is a lot of lost love between the two, but if it could would be the best possible scenario for the Browns, Cleveland and the urbanists of this forum. Didn't think about Gilbert as an option if he is interested. We wish the Haslams cared even a fraction as much about Cleveland as Gilbert does Detroit. We are very lucky to get Gilbert's interest in Cleveland on a very small part-time basis considering what he has done and what he has planned for Detroit's future. Imagine the Haslams speaking as passionately about Cleveland (and acting on it) as Gilbert does with his obvious love of all things Detroit in his recent appearance at the Detroit Economic Club (starts around 8:00 minutes): https://www.facebook.com/onedetroit/videos/a-conversation-with-dan-gilbert-detroit-economic-club/1031010052017452/
January 2Jan 2 47 minutes ago, CLEeng said: I believe the city or county own the existing condition reports, so I think a FOIA request would do it? Discovery of HSG's internal conversations about the process will be very fascinating, and likely very damning. Using my very much not a lawyer brain, I would expect the Haslem's to ask for court records to be sealed so they don't get out. Given their history, who knows, maybe we get something Jimmah said that's at least racially charged to start the process of forcing him to sell? Ummmm......I doubt anything racially charged is going to come from the guy who went all out to sign Deshaun Watson. Remember how DW had some things to say along those lines about the McNairs. Edited January 2Jan 2 by E Rocc
January 2Jan 2 16 minutes ago, E Rocc said: Ummmm......I doubt anything racially charged is going to come from the guy who went all out to sign Deshaun Watson. Remember how DW had some things to say along those lines about the McNairs. I'll keep it to this to avoid going too far off topic, but look up the things that came out from when Sashi Brown was GM and the things Haslem said/did around the office.
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