May 21May 21 Turns out I don't have the scoop on this. Oh well, here it is anyway.....Polling data shows voters oppose Browns moveBy Ken Prendergast / May 21, 2025One day after the region’s chamber of commerce announced its support for the construction of an enclosed stadium in Brook Park, a poll of likely voters in Cuyahoga County was leaked to NEOtrans, showing most of those voters opposed the Cleveland Browns leaving downtown for the suburbs. The poll also said that opposition was putting at risk a county sin tax to repair facilities for all of Cleveland’s major sports teams.MORE:https://neo-trans.blog/2025/05/21/polling-data-shows-voters-oppose-browns-move/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 21May 21 A couple articles in Crains about the Browns as well. Here's a shortened snippet from each:https://www.crainscleveland.com/sports-recreation/browns-brook-park-plan-draws-skepticismThe Browns have big plans for retail around Brook Park stadium — but some experts are skeptical...But as a retail broker, there’s one part of the playbook he’s (Kevin Moss) not sold on: the stadium’s mixed-use entertainment district.Last year, the Haslam Sports Group (HSG) unveiled plans for a massive $3 billion-plus development nestled next to Cleveland Hopkins Airport. The centerpiece is an enclosed stadium that will not just host Browns games but, HSG has said, will attract dozens of big-ticket events and concerts annually to the region, driving increased numbers of visitors from outside the region.Much of the stadium debate has revolved around whether the Browns should be allowed to leave downtown or receive the $1.2 billion in public money they’re seeking. What's gotten less attention is the proposed mixed-use development aspect.The current plan calls for a 1 million-square-foot, multi-phase, privately funded project that would cost as much as $1 billion and initially include two hotels with 450 hotel rooms, 575 apartments and more than 230,000 square feet of retail. The second phase would add 300,000 square feet of retail, 1,100 apartments and 500,000 square feet of office space, with the goal of creating a year-round entertainment and residential district....The Browns assert that the overall project can be “transformational for the region,” something that draws new residents and new business and new money. But the mixed-use plan is drawing skepticism from real estate professionals, particularly when it comes to the retail component.“I don’t think that’s really going to work too well,” Moss said. “I just don’t see the vision on retail in a mixed-use setting in Brook Park. It works in Crocker Park. It works in Pinecrest. It works at Legacy Village. But unless there’s something that can be a substantial driver — like an IKEA — that’s going to bring people from a far distance and result in a continuous flow of bodies, I don't think just Browns Stadium and some events is going to support the retail.” Edited May 21May 21 by Mendo
May 21May 21 https://www.crainscleveland.com/politics-policy/ohio-senate-democrats-want-drop-browns-bondsOhio Senate Democrats call for public schools funding, dropping Browns bondsOhio Senate Democrats have submitted 423 amendments to the two-year state operating budget — including one removing the $600 million bond package for a new Cleveland Browns stadium in Brook Park, and one to fully fund public schools.“This budget steals from our children by defunding public schools, transfers money for health care and libraries to rich benefactors, all the while failing to address the needs of hard working everyday Ohioans,” Senate Minority Leader Nickie J. Antonio, D-Lakewood, said Tuesday during a press conference.“This Republican budget prioritizes partisan agendas and handouts to the wealthy and well-connected, also through vouchers, tax breaks, and a stadium giveaway to the tune of more than half a billion dollars, all paid for by the working class,” she said. The Senate Democrats had a few different ideas for how $600 million can be spent — a direct shot at how the Ohio House Republicans added a bond package for a new Cleveland Browns stadium for that same amount in their version of the budget. Edited May 21May 21 by Mendo
May 21May 21 Ohio Senate Democrats call for public schools funding, dropping Browns bondsOhio Senate Democrats have submitted 423 amendments to the two-year state operating budget — including one removing the $600 million bond package for a new Cleveland Browns stadium in Brook Park, and one to fully fund public schools. https://www.crainscleveland.com/politics-policy/ohio-senate-democrats-want-drop-browns-bonds
May 21May 21 With the Sin Tax in jeopardy over a Brook Park move, Dolan and Gilbert best get their people to Dewine’s office stat.
May 21May 21 that's the pickle. it's hard for them to be against any public subsidy as long as they continue to ask for public dollars.
May 21May 21 17 minutes ago, simplythis said:Ohio Senate Democrats call for public schools funding, dropping Browns bondsOhio Senate Democrats have submitted 423 amendments to the two-year state operating budget — including one removing the $600 million bond package for a new Cleveland Browns stadium in Brook Park, and one to fully fund public schools. https://www.crainscleveland.com/politics-policy/ohio-senate-democrats-want-drop-browns-bondsThere are nine of them, and 24 Republicans. They can posture all they want.
May 21May 21 19 minutes ago, E Rocc said:There are nine of them, and 24 Republicans. They can posture all they want.So you feel that the money should go to a billionaire over education?
May 21May 21 36 minutes ago, marty15 said:With the Sin Tax in jeopardy over a Brook Park move, Dolan and Gilbert best get their people to Dewine’s office stat.Could the sin tax be changed into a fee similar to what is implemented on the Lakefront but for the Gateway District?
May 21May 21 Just now, MyPhoneDead said:Could the sin tax be changed into a fee similar to what is implemented on the Lakefront but for the Gateway District?I’d imagine this would be a ballot issue in order to change the current structure.
May 21May 21 @KJP you should send your article with the polling results to Brodie Brazil. I bet he would do a video with the information. This is the kind of stuff he salivates over.
May 21May 21 Although I've approached the stage of acceptance and now willing to see the city move on, I cannot help but feel what if. That Brook Park project on the Burke Lakefront would have been fantastic and then some. Potential for higher buildings, more public space, proximity to the urban core. I just can't find the enthusiasm for this location at all. It sucks.
May 21May 21 1 hour ago, MyPhoneDead said:So you feel that the money should go to a billionaire over education?I favor amending the state Constitution to void Linton Lewis's sweetheart lawsuit ruling.
May 21May 21 Think about it this way. City and County will no longer be losing money on the team, plus there's no urgency the stadium gets demolished ASAP.It's still functional, can host events whether the .336 teams plays there or not, and can be repurposed to something more beneficial to the region.At the very least, this fiasco and endless discourse will be over.17 minutes ago, Texpat said:Although I've approached the stage of acceptance and now willing to see the city move on, I cannot help but feel what if. That Brook Park project on the Burke Lakefront would have been fantastic and then some. Potential for higher buildings, more public space, proximity to the urban core. I just can't find the enthusiasm for this location at all. It sucks. Edited May 21May 21 by TBideon
May 21May 21 5 minutes ago, TBideon said:Think about it this way. City and County will no longer be losing money on the team, plus there's no urgency the stadium gets demolished ASAP.Won't the city be losing out on income tax from the players if/when they start playing in Brook Park?
May 21May 21 i wonder how this affects the 350 m requested by Cuyahoga county for huntington fie;ld requestand Hamilton county's 350 m request
May 21May 21 5 minutes ago, simplythis said:i wonder how this affects the 350 m requested by Cuyahoga county for huntington fie;ld requestand Hamilton county's 350 m requestThere have been so many contradictory studies I have no clue. Gonna search for city revenue numbers throughout the 90s to see if the team's absence had any noticeable financial effect those three years.
May 21May 21 1 hour ago, Htsguy said:@KJP you should send your article with the polling results to Brodie Brazil. I bet he would do a video with the information. This is the kind of stuff he salivates over.Never heard of him "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 21May 21 44 minutes ago, KJP said:Never heard of him47 minutes ago, KJP said:Never heard of himGoogle him. He’s a broadcaster based in northern California. I believe he now works for the San Jose sharks. He does these very detailed videos on YouTube delving into stadium funding issues throughout the country as well as other economic issues relating to sports. He’s been going nuts lately over the situation in Tampa Bay. The videos are about 10 minutes long and delve into both the politics and the economics of new stadium builds. I believe he actually did one about the Browns situation a couple of months ago, although I didn’t think it was as good as other he has done and was not as well researched.
May 21May 21 2 minutes ago, Htsguy said:Google him. I did. I just never heard of him before you told me. And see, I'm trying to be a good American and proudly broadcast my ignorance of something I should probably know. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 21May 21 The reason for the last part, according to EMC Research’s findings, is that voters may be conflating the extension of the current sin tax with the move of the Browns to Brook Park.I received this poll, and the initial wording of the ballot measure was definitely confusing enough to make me think it would also apply to public funding for a new Browns stadium, so I initially said Vote Against. The poll then had several scenarios where it asked "If you saw an ad saying ... -insert some statement- ..... would you be more or less likely to vote for it"One of the scenarios including pointing out this only applied to maintaining current venues in the city, not funding building new ones. So I said "Much More Likely to vote for" after that one.Then after all the scenarios, it said given the questions I had been asked, if I would now vote for or against it, and I said "Vote For"
May 21May 21 2 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said:Won't the city be losing out on income tax from the players if/when they start playing in Brook Park?@KJP did an article on this previously where he mentions the amount of housing units which could be built on the lakefront to offset the loss of taxes from the Browns. The numbers are realistic, so the city may take a short term loss but be able to make the money up in a few years after the move (if the state doesn’t not vote in favor).
May 21May 21 Cuyahoga County and City of Cleveland withdraw from several GCP committee meetingshttps://www.cleveland19.com/2025/05/21/cuyahoga-county-city-cleveland-withdraw-gcp-committees/
May 21May 21 Phew this is scathing.Cleveland SceneBibb and Ronayne: GCP's Endorsement of Brook Park Dome is..."It has become apparent that GCP does not value its relationship with local leaders and is not acting in the best interests of the City of Cleveland, Cuyahoga County, or Northeast Ohio," the two wr...
May 21May 21 GCP got played, useful idiots to the Haslams, but they've now cut their nose off to spite their face. Enjoy the consequences.
May 21May 21 The amount of people4 hours ago, Whipjacka said:people hate the1 minute ago, snakebite said:GCP got played, useful idiots to the Haslams, but they've now cut their nose off to spite their face. Enjoy the consequences.Hardly getting played when Dee Haslam is literally on the board of GCP. If anything, there is a huge conflict of interest behind their endorsement.
May 21May 21 That's what I mean. She clearly should be nowhere near that position. Her influence on this matter has made the organization look unfit for purpose so I totally support ostracizing them until they can get their house in order. I have to say I am rather sceptical Dee Haslam became involved in GCP for the greater good and not to advance her families business interests in the city, so they get what they deserve for being so gullible to even allow her to railroad her way into things. Edited May 21May 21 by snakebite
May 21May 21 53 minutes ago, GISguy said:Phew this is scathing.Cleveland SceneBibb and Ronayne: GCP's Endorsement of Brook Park Dome is..."It has become apparent that GCP does not value its relationship with local leaders and is not acting in the best interests of the City of Cleveland, Cuyahoga County, or Northeast Ohio," the two wr...Assuming Dee remains, what would GCP's response be if for arguments sake, a mixed use sports anchored development was proposed in the Gateway District? Would the emergence of a competitor suddenly create "concerns"? This is a huge conflict of interest. These things should impartial and based on facts not cronyism.
May 22May 22 For all of the government experts out thereWhat does this mean - dropping Browns bonds - Does this mean the Senate will not pass the 600m subsidy like the house did.?Will they even vote on it? Is this 600m now a dead deal? KJP - where are you? We need a story on this https://www.crainscleveland.com/politics-policy/ohio-senate-democrats-want-drop-browns-bonds
May 22May 22 32 minutes ago, simplythis said:For all of the government experts out thereWhat does this mean - dropping Browns bonds -Does this mean the Senate will not pass the 600m subsidy like the house did.?Will they even vote on it? Is this 600m now a dead deal?KJP - where are you? We need a story on thishttps://www.crainscleveland.com/politics-policy/ohio-senate-democrats-want-drop-browns-bondsDoesn’t mean much because Democrats aren’t going to decide this. The Republicans will. Edited May 22May 22 by 646empire
May 22May 22 https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2025/05/21/ohio-senate-democrats-hope-to-fully-fund-public-schools-not-fund-browns-stadium-in-state-budget/
May 22May 22 If the democrats in Columbus want it, that most likely means the R's will vote against it out of spite. In a state where R's have a majority of everything, I wouldnt read much, if any, into the dem funding proposals.
May 22May 22 14 hours ago, Oldmanladyluck said:@KJP did an article on this previously where he mentions the amount of housing units which could be built on the lakefront to offset the loss of taxes from the Browns. The numbers are realistic, so the city may take a short term loss but be able to make the money up in a few years after the move (if the state doesn’t not vote in favor).That's assuming that after the Browns vacat, and the stadium is demolished, the city actually devlopes the land and gets housing/retail there. If it just sites empty and becomes a blackhole on the shore, then the city loses out.
May 22May 22 15 minutes ago, Stang10 said:That's assuming that after the Browns vacat, and the stadium is demolished, the city actually devlopes the land and gets housing/retail there. If it just sites empty and becomes a blackhole on the shore, then the city loses out.And that would be the extreme worst-case scenario. But I and others believe in the future of this city. Optimism is what motivates me and them to achieve more than extreme worst-case scenarios. To assume those scenarios is to accept them through the laziness of pessimism. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 22May 22 19 hours ago, KJP said:Turns out I don't have the scoop on this. Oh well, here it is anyway.....Polling data shows voters oppose Browns moveBy Ken Prendergast / May 21, 2025One day after the region’s chamber of commerce announced its support for the construction of an enclosed stadium in Brook Park, a poll of likely voters in Cuyahoga County was leaked to NEOtrans, showing most of those voters opposed the Cleveland Browns leaving downtown for the suburbs. The poll also said that opposition was putting at risk a county sin tax to repair facilities for all of Cleveland’s major sports teams.MORE:https://neo-trans.blog/2025/05/21/polling-data-shows-voters-oppose-browns-move/Question. The Sin Tax includes cigarettes and beer but with the legalization of weed is it possible to expand it to include that as well to increase funds instead of taxing cigarettes more? It seems like less and less people smoke and more people are buying weed.
May 22May 22 Another article this time with City Council and Downtown ClevelandCleveland SceneCleveland City Council, Downtown Cleveland Inc. Join Rebu..."It is the worst-kept secret in town that GCP’s leadership is disinterested in the work of revitalizing our region’s core. There should be a change of leadership at this increasingly irrelevant org...
May 22May 22 3 minutes ago, GISguy said:Another article this time with City Council and Downtown ClevelandCleveland SceneCleveland City Council, Downtown Cleveland Inc. Join Rebu..."It is the worst-kept secret in town that GCP’s leadership is disinterested in the work of revitalizing our region’s core. There should be a change of leadership at this increasingly irrelevant org..."There should be a change of leadership at this increasingly irrelevant organization" or an acknowledgment that they are here to represent the interests of only the ultra-wealthy.YIIIIIIIIIKES. Nothing is being held back...............I love it.
May 22May 22 Are they surprised the chamber of commerce that represents and defends the interests of business is beholden to wealthy business owners? This to me is a healthy rupture because these non-profits are not co-equal branches of government and are not tasked with worrying about regular people. That is government's job. Solicit their feedback and listen when applicable but weigh it alongside many other perspectives. Edited May 22May 22 by coneflower
May 22May 22 And things may be getting a little complicated by a Cavalanche... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 22May 22 Reading the above series of posts, I felt echoes of the late 1970's, when another mayor took on the local electric power provider and some of Cleveland's business elites, but I don't remember how exactly that worked out. 🤔 Edited May 22May 22 by urb-a-saurus
May 22May 22 9 minutes ago, KJP said:And things may be getting a little complicated by a Cavalanche...Interesting nugget there, not sure what that can mean as relating to the Cavs, but would be interested in a timely Bedrock bomb.
May 22May 22 1 minute ago, bwheats said:Interesting nugget there, not sure what that can mean as relating to the Cavs, but would be interested in a timely Bedrock bomb.I wonder if they spent public money to install the "fake snow" machine in the arena. Something that is obviously not needed for the arena to function or related to upkeep. Could be/should be controversial if they are begging for public money for things like that.
May 22May 22 Koby Altman did mention during his interview yesterday or the day before that they’re topping out the project this month or next monthEdit: Koby Altman 2 days ago in his press conference said “we are 2 months away from topping out the most massive practice facility in the world” Edited May 22May 22 by BoomerangCleRes
May 22May 22 11 minutes ago, urb-a-saurus said:Reading the above series of posts, I felt echoes of the late 1970's, when another boy mayor took on the local electric power provider and some of Cleveland's business elites, but I don't remember how exactly that worked out. 🤔Calling Mayor Bibb a boy mayor, isn't really appropriate.The difference here is that having public entities contribute to what the Haslam's are proposing is irresponsible and the County and the public agree with the city by a wide margin.
May 22May 22 I think it's pretty telling that Team NEO, led by Matt Dolan, didn't more firmly side with GCP--especially given that Matt's brother, Paul Dolan is the Board Chair of GCP. Maybe its the quasi-governmental status of Team NEO tempering Matt's response, but makes me think that Paul is one of the silent board members Chris and Justin referenced in their letter. I think it's also telling that the region's business journal, Crain's, is running articles questioning the economic projections of HSG, from their retail, residential, and office plan to the number of events they claim they will be able to bring.
May 22May 22 39 minutes ago, Mov2Ohio said:Calling Mayor Bibb a boy mayor, isn't really appropriate.The difference here is that having public entities contribute to what the Haslam's are proposing is irresponsible and the County and the public agree with the city by a wide margin.I also question how powerful the local business community is public opinion wise vs. the '70s. I may be wrong because I wasn't alive then but I think the environment is different. Back then, there were lots of wealthy people with well-known names locally with generational investment and interests that held a lot of weight in the community. Today, the public highly values our local employers but I don't think the CEO of SW or Key weighing in on local politics or public affairs outside of something that relates to their business specifically makes much of a dent, which is why they don't do it outside of GCP. That's good and bad--bad because it shows less personal investment in the region. A lot of senior executives today may not see Cleveland as their "forever home" but a stop on a career-long tour of duty. Edited May 22May 22 by coneflower
May 22May 22 57 minutes ago, Mov2Ohio said:Calling Mayor Bibb a boy mayor, isn't really appropriate.Acknowledged. Post edited.
May 22May 22 1 hour ago, KJP said:And things may be getting a little complicated by a Cavalanche...Is Gilbert gonna start flexing his might?? I hope so.
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