recent commentary on the topic

 

http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index.ssf/2013/11/cleveland_browns_stadium_deal.html

 

I agree that the measure should not have been passed as an emergency measure.  City Council is a bunch of cowards. 

I'm not assuming anything.  Was just pointing out that reducing capacity may not necessarily reduce tax revenue if the ticket prices go up.

 

You are absolutely right. Tax revenue is a function of tickets sold and price of each ticket. But you didn't point out any of these things in your fist post. You just jumped down his throat for having a very real concern. We have not heard anything about higher ticket prices. Is it likely? Yes, probably.

 

How is reducing capacity losing the city money?  The admissions tax is a percentage, so is dependent on ticket prices, not capacity.

 

Which is clearly misleading.

 

Mendo I don't understand either of your responses.  I don't see where I "jumped down" anyone's throat, nor do I understand why you say my comment was misleading.  If you increase the price of tickets along with the lesser capacity, the city will not lose money.  It's math.  That's all I was pointing out.

Mendo I don't understand either of your responses.  I don't see where I "jumped down" anyone's throat, nor do I understand why you say my comment was misleading.  If you increase the price of tickets along with the lesser capacity, the city will not lose money.  It's math.  That's all I was pointing out.

 

PM sent so as not to further derail the thread.

If you increase the price of tickets along with the lesser capacity, the city will not lose money.  It's math.  That's all I was pointing out.

 

Less seats means less people coming downtown for games.  That's less people paying for parking (or public transit), less people going to bars and restaurants, less people staying at hotels, less people going to other venues before and after the game.  And less people doing those things means less money for the city.

Idk, there are always empty seats at the games.

Im guessing they are removing the seats that could not be sold because of a design flaw which blocked the view of the field. Anyone know how many seats that accounts for?

Idk, there are always empty seats at the games.

 

There wouldn't be if the Browns ever put a consistent winner back on the field.  That said, I endorse the move to lower the capacity for the reasons given by the Browns.

Im guessing they are removing the seats that could not be sold because of a design flaw which blocked the view of the field. Anyone know how many seats that accounts for?

 

I don't think there are any. That was a major issue with the last Stadium and really lots of stadiums built before 1975.

^ There are some obstructed seats in 343 west end zone upper rows, because the upper deck section 543 overhang blocks views of part of the field.

 

Drove past the stadium this weekend. Construction fences are up and various cranes are in place.

I forgot to mention that when I was near the downtown lakefront yesterday, two large heavy-duty cranes have taken up station outside each end of the stadium -- apparently to start the renovations.

I forgot to mention that when I was near the downtown lakefront yesterday, two large heavy-duty cranes have taken up station outside each end of the stadium -- apparently to start the renovations.

 

Yeah they're up. West scoreboard is being disassembled and east just started Monday. We keep losing days bc of the weather but that's to be expected. After the scoreboards are down, demo will start.

I wonder what is going to happen to those old scoreboards.  Do they get sold on some secondary market?  Is there somewhere that I can see about possibly buying one?  My house could surely use a  TV bigger than it.

I wonder what is going to happen to those old scoreboards.  Do they get sold on some secondary market?  Is there somewhere that I can see about possibly buying one?  My house could surely use a  TV bigger than it.

 

I've got one ready to send right over to your house. I just need the address.....

 

Here come the proposed changes.....

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2014/02212014/index.php

 

Here's a few of them. The rest are scattered across three pages at the link above.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well that looks pretty crappy IMO.

kinda like the changes to the dog pound side.

I hope the public dollars being used for this renovation aren't going towards plastering ads for private businesses all over the place.

I hope the public dollars being used for this renovation aren't going towards plastering ads for private businesses all over the place.

 

That's basically the entire project. More advertising space which they sold to the city as a way to improve "fan experience"

Honestly looks no different to me

EDIT: Never mind

I hope the public dollars being used for this renovation aren't going towards plastering ads for private businesses all over the place.

 

That's basically the entire project. More advertising space which they sold to the city as a way to improve "fan experience"

 

Not liking the project doesn't mean you have to pretend that there are no real improvements.  Scoreboard, PA, escalators, better internet, and revamped food stands are all involved in the upgrade.  Those do enhance fan experience

Webcam

 

http://www.earthcam.net/projects/turner/firstenergystadium/?cam=cam2

I hope the public dollars being used for this renovation aren't going towards plastering ads for private businesses all over the place.

 

That's basically the entire project. More advertising space which they sold to the city as a way to improve "fan experience"

 

Not liking the project doesn't mean you have to pretend that there are no real improvements.  Scoreboard, PA, escalators, better internet, and revamped food stands are all involved in the upgrade.  Those do enhance fan experience

 

....and thousands of s.f. of advertising signage

I hope the public dollars being used for this renovation aren't going towards plastering ads for private businesses all over the place.

 

That's basically the entire project. More advertising space which they sold to the city as a way to improve "fan experience"

 

Not liking the project doesn't mean you have to pretend that there are no real improvements.  Scoreboard, PA, escalators, better internet, and revamped food stands are all involved in the upgrade.  Those do enhance fan experience

 

....and thousands of s.f. of advertising signage

 

Whats the problem with the ads on display in the renderings?  The existing scoreboard is littered with advertising signage.  Each gate into the stadium and is branded, i.e., "The PNC Gate".  Ads are pretty much everywhere inside today.

 

Improvements are being made.  Maybe if I am spending less time waiting in lines to go to the upper level or getting concessions I won't be staring at the ads as much.

Only in cleveland would every available inch of a sports facility be dedicated to making money... oh, that's everywhere in the world.

Only in cleveland would every available inch of a sports facility be dedicated to making money... oh, that's everywhere in the world.

 

I spent a lot of time in the old Cleveland Stadium starting with my first game in 1976. It had a few ads, but not many. But I was overwhelmed by the number of ads in Cleveland Browns Stadium the first time I set foot in there in 1999. Every flat, vertical space had an ad on it. Something tells me the renovations are going to take "overwhelming" and elevate it to "advertitus nervosis."

Only in cleveland would every available inch of a sports facility be dedicated to making money... oh, that's everywhere in the world.

 

I spent a lot of time in the old Cleveland Stadium starting with my first game in 1976. It had a few ads, but not many. But I was overwhelmed by the number of ads in Cleveland Browns Stadium the first time I set foot in there in 1999. Every flat, vertical space had an ad on it. Something tells me the renovations are going to take "overwhelming" and elevate it to "advertitus nervosis."

 

And all done on our dime!

The newer the stadiums, the more advertising there is. Right before the beginning of the MLB season I saw some website that showed each ballpark and I'm pretty sure I could rank their age based on how many ads were present.  I'm sure you can do the same with football.

Advertising is fine if the owner paid for it. Or if the city got the revenue. But the city paying for the team to increase advertising revenue makes no sense to me.

As far as I'm concerned they can do whatever they want on the inside. If people don't like looking at it, don't buy a ticket. But when it starts wrapping the outside it looks tacky. It's like putting bumper stickers on high priced cars.

I actually surprised that they are allowed to have that much building signage.

I hope the public dollars being used for this renovation aren't going towards plastering ads for private businesses all over the place.

 

That's basically the entire project. More advertising space which they sold to the city as a way to improve "fan experience"

 

Not liking the project doesn't mean you have to pretend that there are no real improvements.  Scoreboard, PA, escalators, better internet, and revamped food stands are all involved in the upgrade.  Those do enhance fan experience

 

Maybe, but not as much as winning games does.

Except that Cleveland Browns fans bought 97 percent of seats at the stadium last year (based on paid attendance). So there is little room for growth except in getting more people who paid for seats to actually show up and put their butts in them, as well as to buy stuff at the stadium.

A bunch of crane activity at the stadium today. Looks like they are resuming work on the stadium. Perfect timing for draft!!!!

 

BREAKING NEWS!

 

This just in, the Cleveland Browns brass to meet with City Council and the City Planning Board to discuss potential sites for Johnny Football statues... Proposed sites include Playhouse Square, the top of the At&t building, Public Square and the Mall C.

^ how about a colussus of the Cuyahoga straddling the river?

 

If the stadium improvements were 50 / 50 Haslam/City I'd love it. I would assume contract negotiations would be easier if the browns were putting out a team that won at least 7 games every year.

^ I thought the Browns were shouldering the lion's share of the improvements with the $100MM they generated via the FirstEnergy naming rights. Has that changed?

 

Edit: The Browns are picking up $90MM of the proposed $120MM. The sin tax funds the remainder.

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=8604.msg683977#msg683977

It hasn't. It was about 80/20 team/city.

 

Edit: my bad 75/25...

No I've been having a brain spasms from all the no on issue 7 commercials the last few weeks .

They actually had welders working on the stadium on Sunday. Looks like they are prepping everything for the new scoreboards coming in (has to be soon, right?). Oh, and the Browns shop was open in the stadium and they are all sold out of Manziel shirts. Go figure! The people working in the shop said the phone had been ringing from the second they opened up the store.

 

A few construction shots from the weekend

 

Thanks! I noticed in going to a couple of games last year that the stadium needs some Rustoleum! Now that they've peeled away some of the structure, I see that it's gotten into some previously unexposed places, too.

I've always been surprised at the number of items I see rusting downtown: railing, tree grates, etc.  Are people buying cheap materials?

I've always been surprised at the number of items I see rusting downtown: railing, tree grates, etc.  Are people buying cheap materials?

 

We live in a climate that is very tough to maintain. A lot of building materials do not handle salt well and unfortunate we have become a society where everyone is scared to not put enough ice melting material down as to prevent being sued. Calcium Chloride should be used in almost all situations like this but I don't think it is widely known.

I've always been surprised at the number of items I see rusting downtown: railing, tree grates, etc.  Are people buying cheap materials?

 

We live in a climate that is very tough to maintain. A lot of building materials do not handle salt well and unfortunate we have become a society where everyone is scared to not put enough ice melting material down as to prevent being sued. Calcium Chloride should be used in almost all situations like this but I don't think it is widely known.

 

Embracing that awful Rust Belt moniker, ouch!

I understand we live in a rough climate, but that's not a secret.  It gets cold here and we throw salt around - every year.  Hard to believe there's not materials that can withstand that or that people don't have the foresight to use them.  Unless it just comes down to saving money. 

Well, there are considerable costs associated with ice melting.  CaCl2 is the salt of choice, but only lets down to about minus 22Degrees whereas NaCl2 gets down to -25 degrees.  CaCl2 will melt about twice as much ice as the same amount of NaCl however.  KCl does a much better ice melting job, but is not good at the lower temperatures.

 

Most concrete damage does not actually occur from the salt, but from the freeze/thaw cycle on questionable concrete.

 

I laugh when newscasters compare using Calcium chloride to salt.  CaCl2 is a salt.

Well looks like a good portion of the stands are gone. Seems like they are building the base for the scoreboard. Though idk they could leave it open like that, I kind of like the view.

It appears they moved the webcams to the top of the stadium.  I think it gives a better perspective.

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/photo-galleries/2014/07/17/firstenergy-stadium-renovations-july-17-2014/  exterior views

 

http://earthcam.net/projects/turner/firstenergystadium/?cam=cam2    interior views

Can they really finish this in less than a month??