^it wouldn't be a surface lot would it?

Whoa... here is a thread back from the dead.  So much has changed since then, primarily that I don't find Mason an attractive city to live in anymore.  I just helped my buddy & his wife move into their place downtown yesterday and I am so jealous and sadly I am not 27 anymore *CRYS*  At least Article 12 was revoked!

 

As for Kenwood, I am surprised that Federated didn't upgrade the Macy's to a Bloomingdales when they went through their rebadging from Lazarus to Macy's.  I won't hold my breath on 5 & Race getting a Bloomingdales but the metro does deserve one and like it was mentioned above, I would like to see it inside the 275 beltway.

it IS a surface lot.  How did you know?

Yeah I wouldnt mind seeing a Bloomingdales at 5th and Race with a residential tower rising above it.  That would truly make me happy! :-D :-D :-D :-D

it IS a surface lot.  How did you know?

 

^just a hunch

Does anyone on this board shop at the Sak's store that is already Downtown?  Here in Chicago, Sak's is definitely nicer and has a better selection (at least in the men's dept) than Bloomingdales.  If Sak's is struggling, why would Bloomingdales do any better? 

I haven't seen anything that says Saks is struggling within the last two years.  Show us where you got that info.

In the letter from Federated.

 

Nordstrom's did not build here for a reason, and Saks recently required a

 

$6 million subsidy from the city in order to keep its downtown store open.

That response is from two years ago - check the date of my post.  I also sense some bias toward downtown in the person's tone. 

metrocity, nordstrom did not build here, as well as many other places, due to bad earnings and a reworked business model shortly after they had thought about locating here.  It was not because of a lack of confidence in the Cincinnati market.

 

Saks did ask for a $6M subsidy, but it was to do renovations to the store.  It may have been because of bad business, but that was never publicized.  They, like many other businesses, were looking for a handout from the city to help lower the costs of the renovation to the store.  They threatened to leave if they did not get this money to renovate.  If business were really that bad then they wouldnt have even thought to renovate and would have simply left at that time.

does anyone know why macy's doesn't have a store in cleveland. all i can remember cleveland having is dillards, along with a nordstroms and saks. not to worry, ohio will have a bloomingdales. now if it is in columbus or cincy, who knows? im hoping columbus!!!

Cleveland does have a Macy's its called Kauffman's which is soon to be renamed Macy's.

 

I dont think Ohio will get a bloomingdales anytime soon. If it is I would say it would go to Cleveland. There is still the most money to support such a store up there. Plus the Columbus market is too saturated with retail as is.

^if anything, theres more money in the cincy-dayton area than the cleveland-akron-canton area.  bloomingdales is a regional draw and cincy would make sense for drawing ppl from cbus, dayton, indy, lexington, and louisville. 

^You got anything to back that up? :?

Cleveland does have a Macy's its called Kauffman's which is soon to be renamed Macy's.

 

I dont think Ohio will get a bloomingdales anytime soon. If it is I would say it would go to Cleveland. There is still the most money to support such a store up there. Plus the Columbus market is too saturated with retail as is.

 

Well I disagree with the Cleveland having more money but I don't want the thread to go that way so lets drop it.  The main reason why a Bloomingdales would make the most sense in Cincinnati over any other city in Ohio is well...  Federated is based in Cincinnati (And yes we know much of the operation is in New York)

I agree with Montecarloss that Bloomingdales should go to Cincy because of the Corporate Headquarters.

 

As for the money issue...

 

 

 

» More From The Plain Dealer   

 

 

 

Big money may be closer than you think

Millionaires at home in Cuyahoga County

Wednesday, March 29, 2006

Henry J. Gomez

Plain Dealer Reporter

Is your next-door neighbor a millionaire?

 

In Cuyahoga County, the chances are better than you might expect.

 

The county has 41,887 "millionaire households," making it the 33rd-wealthiest county in the United States, according to data released Tuesday by TNS Financial Services.

 

"Some of it's probably old money, but a fair amount could be local entrepreneurs," said economist LeRoy Brooks, the Mellen chair in finance at John Carroll University.

 

TNS, a global marketing information researcher, based its rankings on the number of households within a county to have a net worth of at least seven figures, excluding the value of the primary residence. The top 10 showed the usual suspects: Los Angeles County at No. 1, along with three other California counties and the Boston, Houston and Phoenix regions.

 

In 2005, a record 8.9 million U.S. households had a net worth of at least $1 million. That's up from 8.2 million in 2004 and dwarfs the 5.5 million reported in 2002 after the dot-com bust.

 

TNS, a London-based company, said the average net worth for millionaire households was about $2.2 million, with an average of $1.4 million in assets available for investing.

 

Ohio actually was MIA from the list TNS released to the news media. The firm identified only the top 10, though the New York Times published a list of 13 that included its home county. TNS provided The Plain Dealer with data for Ohio's three top counties: Cuyahoga, Franklin (No. 52) and Hamilton (No. 63).

 

Those are Ohio's most populous counties and home, respectively, to Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati.

 

Based on 2004 estimates by the U.S. Census Bureau, Hamilton County would appear to have the highest percentage of millionaire households. TNS counted 27,611 such households in that southwestern county, or about 8 percent of the estimated 340,911 total households.

 

In Cuyahoga County, about 7.5 percent of the estimated 557,873 households would meet the millionaire standard, as would roughly 7.1 percent, or 30,845, of Franklin County's 435,676 households.

 

What makes a millionaire household? TNS suggested that millionaires achieve their fortunes by spending conservatively and accumulating wealth.

 

According to TNS, the average age for the head of a millionaire household was 58, with about 45 percent retired. About 19 percent of the households included someone who owns at least part of a business or professional practice. Either way, said Brooks of John Carroll, it shows that saving pays.

 

"It could be someone running a successful restaurant," he said. "It could be someone running a successful chain of three or four pizza joints. It could be line workmen, if they were putting money away for enough years. It could be a clerk from Home Depot."

 

To reach this Plain Dealer reporter:

 

[email protected], 216-999-5405

 

they could build a "little" bloomingdales in downtown columbus, like they did in soho in new york. it could be like a specialty department store

Of course, millionares do not dictate the median income of an entire metropolitan area.  Hell, Fresno perhaps has more millionares than Portland (throwing it out there, dunno) but Portland probably has a higher median income.

 

Again, Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Columbus could all potentially support a Bloomingdales.  Cincinnati is the most obvious, as it is the headquarters, while Columbus and Cleveland can simply handle one as well.

 

 

Again, Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Columbus could all potentially support a Bloomingdales. Cincinnati is the most obvious, as it is the headquarters, while Columbus and Cleveland can simply handle one as well.

 

I would say Cincinnati and Cleveland might be able to handle one. Columbus couldn't support Lord and Taylor so they definitely couldn't handle Bloomingdales.

No one could support a Lord & Taylor, as they went out of business in most states.

columbus was not the only city that couldn't "support" a lord and taylor. they closed quite a few other stores in various states. i used to work for them. they closed stores in georiga, texas, florida, kentucky, colorado, and a few others.

thank you coldayman!

If anything, a Lord & Taylor and Saks opening up at the same mall in one year shows the "support" Columbus could bring to the retail market.  Afterall, isn't Columbus' trade area like 5 million people (Central & Southeast Ohio, West Virginia, and parts of eastern KY/western PA)?!?!

You guys are talking foolishness. ;)

columbus was not the only city that couldn't "support" a lord and taylor. they closed quite a few other stores in various states. i used to work for them. they closed stores in georiga, texas, florida, kentucky, colorado, and a few others.

 

Not singling Columbus out, but since they were the only Ohio city with one I mentioned them. But First L&T divested all of their underperforming stores like the one in Columbus, see http://columbus.bizjournals.com/columbus/stories/2003/07/28/daily23.html

 

 

 

 

 

If anything, a Lord & Taylor and Saks opening up at the same mall in one year shows the "support" Columbus could bring to the retail market. Afterall, isn't Columbus' trade area like 5 million people (Central & Southeast Ohio, West Virginia, and parts of eastern KY/western PA)?!?!

 

 

If Columbus could show so much support why isn't it open there anymore? Whoa I think that market area you mention is a bit of a stretch look here http://www.truckads.com/Affiliate/Columbus.htm#map

 

^You got anything to back that up? :?

 

Yea I do.  I am a GIS major and have mapped out average income in every geography possible.  Every time, Cincy is the highest in the state.  Maybe someday I will post the maps on here.

I know theres more that goes into it but I have to run really quick so when I get off work, I will be back!

^Can't wait it should be interesting to see.

I think the fact that the Lord&Taylor space was replaced rather quickly is a good sign for the local retail market. Granted, Von Maur isn't as well-known of a name nationwide, however the store's calibur is of similar style to Nordstrom and other upscale stores.

 

As far as Bloomingdales goes, I don't really know much if anything about the store. I would imagine that if they wanted to invest in mid/large-sized Midwest cites for whatever reason, that Cincinnati would be the best choice, since the parent company it headquartered there and the region could likely support another upscale retailer. I don't know enough about the store and its offerings to speculate whether it would fit in the Columbus market. If their products are similar to Von Maur and Nordstrom, then I doubt it would be needed here.

If Columbus could show so much support why isn't it open there anymore? Whoa I think that market area you mention is a bit of a stretch look here http://www.truckads.com/Affiliate/Columbus.htm#map

 

A). It was going under.  Of course it's going to close in Columbus.  It's telling that Von Maur (a Midwest upscale department store) opened without hesitation.  Again, it shows Columbus' growth in retail.

 

B). That map has nothing to do with retail marketing.  West Virginia, Southeast Ohio, and Central Ohio are the primary areas that contribute to the retail sector in Columbus. 

^Can't wait it should be interesting to see.

 

lol.  anyway, but yea all i was saying is that cincy-dayton is bigger than cleveland-akron-canton.  i know, i know, youngstown is there too but it seems to me cincy has more of a region to draw from.  also, cincy-dayton would have more wealth than cleveland0akron-canton.  plus, the parent company is in cincy.  all those combined, it seems cincy makes sense in my opinion but whatever.  either way, ohio needs one.

Atlas, Cleveland-Akron-Canton is larger than Cincinnati-Dayton.  Who cares either way as long as Ohio as a whole succeeds. I think Mov2Ohio proved his point.  Hamilton County has a higher percentage of wealth but Cuyahoga has more overall.

I've been in a couple Bloomingdale's stores. There is probably no reason why Cincinnati couldn't support one, because the merchandise isn't so expensive (or at least more reasonable than Saks), but I'm not so knowledgable about the Cincinnati market. I would compare it to Nordtroms, which Cleveland and Columbus both have. So I think Bloomingdale's would probably work in Cincinnati.

 

What attracted to me to post on this topic, were the claims about the Cleveland market. I don't think creating a debate about the issue is a good idea, but Greater Cleveland is the largest metropolitan area in the state, and has a disproportionate  economic output (which is overwhelmingly the largest in the state). There was a list mentioned of fifteen communities in Cincinnati with high median home values. A similar and perhaps larger list exists for Greater Cleveland communities. Cuyahoga County has over 55 municipalities and the entire county is 98% built out. The majority of these municipalities are affluent. The problem with Cleveland is that the central city is so small in terms of land, that whenever you read or hear things about "Cleveland" it is mistaken for what I would call "Greater Cleveland".

 

Most high-end or more exclusive distribution retailers seem to enter the Cleveland market first, or Columbus (probably based on the fact it is between Cincinnati and Cleveland).  Not to mention, Cleveland has a large amount of boutique stores that carry high end merchandise you would find at high-end department stores. 

Atlas, Cleveland-Akron-Canton is larger than Cincinnati-Dayton.  Who cares either way as long as Ohio as a whole succeeds. I think Mov2Ohio proved his point.  Hamilton County has a higher percentage of wealth but Cuyahoga has more overall.

 

OK, I am not lookin up anything, but I thought Clev-Akron-Canton was 2.9 mill and Cincy-Dayton is now 3.1 mill.  Am I wrong here?

I think that the 2.9 million number that is used is just for the Akron and Cleveland areas.  I think Akron is around 700,000 and Cleveland is around 2.2 million (generalizations).  I think if one was to throw Canton in it would put the area above Cincinnati-Dayton.  Feel free to correct my math, but I think that's how the 2.9 million number is reached.

^oh ok.  i just thought i remember the census numbers saying "cleveland-akron-canton: 2.9 mill"  but yea, i think your analasys sounds right.  Great, there goes my whole belief system.

I've been in a couple Bloomingdale's stores. There is probably no reason why Cincinnati couldn't support one, because the merchandise isn't so expensive (or at least more reasonable than Saks), but I'm not so knowledgable about the Cincinnati market. I would compare it to Nordtroms, which Cleveland and Columbus both have. So I think Bloomingdale's would probably work in Cincinnati.

 

What attracted to me to post on this topic, were the claims about the Cleveland market. I don't think creating a debate about the issue is a good idea, but Greater Cleveland is the largest metropolitan area in the state, and has a disproportionate  economic output (which is overwhelmingly the largest in the state). There was a list mentioned of fifteen communities in Cincinnati with high median home values. A similar and perhaps larger list exists for Greater Cleveland communities. Cuyahoga County has over 55 municipalities and the entire county is 98% built out. The majority of these municipalities are affluent. The problem with Cleveland is that the central city is so small in terms of land, that whenever you read or hear things about "Cleveland" it is mistaken for what I would call "Greater Cleveland".

 

Most high-end or more exclusive distribution retailers seem to enter the Cleveland market first, or Columbus (probably based on the fact it is between Cincinnati and Cleveland).  Not to mention, Cleveland has a large amount of boutique stores that carry high end merchandise you would find at high-end department stores. 

 

Youre probably right, most high end retailers would enter Cleveland first.  In my opinion, this isnt because of the wealth Cleveland has, but instead, the fact that it is a large market.  Cincinnati, too has a very small city square mileage wise, very close to the size of Cleveland.  The difference between the two, however, is that the city of Cincy has quite a few extremely affluent neighborhoods.  Does Cleveland?  My belief is the city doesnt but I could obviously be wrong.  But yea, I dont really know what that has to do with anything. 

Greater Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati all have relatively similar demographics when it comes to wealth and income, but the fact of the matter is that Cleveland overwhelmingly has the largest market in the state. As previously stated, all three of the cities could probably handle a Bloomingdales, but Greater Cleveland having the biggest population would make it the most obvious choice. Additionally, regional draw isn't nearly as important as the number of permanent resident and that is what companies are going to look at when searching for a location.

Greater Cleveland (when you include Akron) is roughly 2.9 million.  Add Canton and you'll have around 3.3 million.

 

That is not overwhelmingly the largest market in the state.  Cincinnati itself is "only" 2.1 million yet add Dayton-Springfield, and Southwest Ohio's "market" is roughly 3.2 million.  Columbus "market" (in-state) is around 1.9 million (which does not include the "regional" traffic from SE Ohio and West Virginia). 

 

Basically.  All three are rather large markets and no one has an unfair advantage in regards to who-gets-what.  If the Census decides to group Cincinnati with Dayton, then it would be Ohio's largest (and I believe wealthiest) market.  If the Census decides to deregulate, then Cincinnati and Cleveland would be same size, with Columbus "only" 400,000 behind.

 

It would not be a surprise if Bloomingdale's came to Columbus first; or Cincinnati first; or Cleveland first.  All three have equal "playing ground" generally.  Only blind boosterism would negate that.

Greater Cleveland (when you include Akron) is roughly 2.9 million.  Add Canton and you'll have around 3.3 million.

 

That is not overwhelmingly the largest market in the state.  Cincinnati itself is "only" 2.1 million yet add Dayton-Springfield, and Southwest Ohio's "market" is roughly 3.2 million.  Columbus "market" (in-state) is around 1.9 million (which does not include the "regional" traffic from SE Ohio and West Virginia). 

 

Basically.  All three are rather large markets and no one has an unfair advantage in regards to who-gets-what.  If the Census decides to group Cincinnati with Dayton, then it would be Ohio's largest (and I believe wealthiest) market.  If the Census decides to deregulate, then Cincinnati and Cleveland would be same size, with Columbus "only" 400,000 behind.

 

It would not be a surprise if Bloomingdale's came to Columbus first; or Cincinnati first; or Cleveland first.  All three have equal "playing ground" generally.  Only blind boosterism would negate that.

 

I personally I think Cleveland AND Cincinnati should get a Bloomingdale's. They're so far away from each other that the markets would even come close to overlapping. The only reason I think Cleveland would get one first is because it's traditionally the largest and most important region in the state, economically and population-wise (whether or not those things are true today may or may not be true, but in the minds of many corporations Cleveland is the biggest Ohio market).

It should be interesting to see if they do end up splitting the Cleveland-Akron metro area for the next census.  They're a fair bit closer to one another than Cincinnati and Dayton (around 30 miles from downtown to downtown versus I think 47 for Cincinnati and Dayton).  It may be tough to divide the areas as there are a few suburbs which could go either way (Richfield, Hudson, Sagamore Hills).

 

Back on topic, I think it could truly be a coin toss between any of the three metros in Ohio.  Once one desireable chain enters one Ohio market is seems to follow within a few years.  These decisions always seem to be based on what project cuts a desireable deal and has the right construction timeline.  If I heard Bloomingdale's was opening in any of the three markets it wouldn't really throw me either way.

Greater Cleveland (when you include Akron) is roughly 2.9 million.  Add Canton and you'll have around 3.3 million.

 

That is not overwhelmingly the largest market in the state.  Cincinnati itself is "only" 2.1 million yet add Dayton-Springfield, and Southwest Ohio's "market" is roughly 3.2 million.  Columbus "market" (in-state) is around 1.9 million (which does not include the "regional" traffic from SE Ohio and West Virginia). 

 

Basically.  All three are rather large markets and no one has an unfair advantage in regards to who-gets-what.  If the Census decides to group Cincinnati with Dayton, then it would be Ohio's largest (and I believe wealthiest) market.  If the Census decides to deregulate, then Cincinnati and Cleveland would be same size, with Columbus "only" 400,000 behind.

 

It would not be a surprise if Bloomingdale's came to Columbus first; or Cincinnati first; or Cleveland first.  All three have equal "playing ground" generally.  Only blind boosterism would negate that.

 

I personally I think Cleveland AND Cincinnati should get a Bloomingdale's. They're so far away from each other that the markets would even come close to overlapping. The only reason I think Cleveland would get one first is because it's traditionally the largest and most important region in the state, economically and population-wise.

 

Economically?

 

I think there are a lot of Clevelander's on here that will disagree with you on that statement.

It should be interesting to see if they do end up splitting the Cleveland-Akron metro area for the next census.  They're a fair bit closer to one another than Cincinnati and Dayton (around 30 miles from downtown to downtown versus I think 47 for Cincinnati and Dayton).  It may be tough to divide the areas as there are a few suburbs which could go either way (Richfield, Hudson, Sagamore Hills).

 

Are they considering spliting the two? I thought that if they are considering formally combining Cin-Day, then it would make since to keep things as they are in Cleveland-Akron, if not add more to that csa.

 

Economically?

 

I think there are a lot of Clevelander's on here that will disagree with you on that statement.

 

Cleveland's economic output is much larger than any other region in the state.

Mov2Ohio,

 

Sorry about the confusion, I should have specified that I was just making light of ColDayMan's comment about breaking down some of the compound metro areas.  This meaning that Cleveland and Akron would be separate, as well as Cincinnati and Dayton remaining separate.  Regardless of the census both Cincinnati-Dayton and Cleveland-Akron rely on one another quite a bit economically despite being grouped by the census or not.

 

Economically?

 

I think there are a lot of Clevelander's on here that will disagree with you on that statement.

 

Cleveland's economic output is much larger than any other region in the state.

 

Not really.  The GNP/GDP of Cleveland-Lorain versus Cincinnati-Middletown is only seperated by $8 billion, currently (which is chump-change).

Interesting conversations, I will sit back and continue to read.

I think in buying power Cincinnati/Dayton has 110 billion , however Cleveland/Akron has about $140 billion in buying power. With that said, the Cin-Day area is growing in buying power and population much faster than the Cle-Akr area. Hell Orlando is out pacing us all, so watch out.

 

Another thing that everyone fails to mention is sales tax.

 

Hamiltion county sales tax is 6.5%

Franklin county sales tax is 6.75%

Cuyahoga county sales tax is a whopping 7.5%

 

 

 

Economically?

 

I think there are a lot of Clevelander's on here that will disagree with you on that statement.

 

Cleveland's economic output is much larger than any other region in the state.

 

Can you provide some numbers. youre not being clear on what youre basing 'economic output' on. Thanks.

I found some number, a little dated from 2002.

Gross metropolitan Products

 

Cleveland $83.26 Billion

Akron $22.42 Billion

Total $105.68 Billion

 

Columbus $63.59 Billion

 

Cincinnati $62.34 Billion

Dayton $32.08 Billion

Total $94.42 Billion

 

I think really you should be comparing Designated Market areas as those are the areas stores will draw from and advertise to.

 

http://www.usmayors.org/71stWinterMeeting/metroreportcharts_012203.pdf