May 11, 2006

Brooklyn Sun Journal

Police nab brash graffiti 'artists'

By Ken Prendergast

Staff Writer

 

  CLEVELAND — Two young men from the suburbs said they spray-painted graffiti at dozens of locations on the city's near-West Side because they didn't think anyone from the "run-down ghetto" would care, police said. They are facing multiple felony charges this week because someone apparently still does.

 

  Daniel M. Horvat, 19, of Wickliffe, and Danny J. Zhang, 18, of Seven Hills, brazenly showed police where they had spray-painted their "tags" all over the West Side, according to Second District police reports. Each time they pointed out a new location they tagged, police reminded them of their Miranda rights, but they didn't stay silent. More charges were added each time a new location was pointed out by the two men.

 

READ MORE AT:

www.sunnews.com

"it's a 'run-down, ghetto city so who cares.'"

 

I think when an 18 and 19 year old serve time for multiple fifth-degree felonies - they'll start caring the first time they try to take a shower. I am an ardent supporter of the City Xpressionz Aerosol Art competition that Cleveland Public Art produces annually. They provide a legitimate outlet for some incredibly talented people and a contained environment that doesn't harm the community.

 

As for these smug, devil-may-care punks, I hope they throw the f#cking book at them for holding my city in such low regard.  :whip:

Ghetto?  as is wickliffe or seven hills is something to write home about? 

 

Where are the parents???

 

Now had a bunch of (minority) kids from the city done this in teh 'burbs.....they be hanged!

 

I say throw the book at these punks.  Where is judge Hatchett or Judge Judy when you need them?

Make 'em clean it up.  And make 'em do it while neighborhood residents look over their shoulders.

By the way, the kid Zhang -- his father owns the P.F. Chang's restaurant. I have a feeling he's going to be pinching pennies soon to pay for his son's (alleged) numerous mistakes.

I'd love to know who's messing up the near east side (e.g. Chinatown and MidTown) with tags.. one of the names I've seen hundreds of times throughout is "SYM" - it's even on an I-77 overhead sign, which would have required the spray-painter to climb atop oncoming traffic.

By the way, the kid Zhang -- his father owns the P.F. Chang's restaurant. I have a feeling he's going to be pinching pennies soon to pay for his son's (alleged) numerous mistakes.

 

Well, P.F. Chang's is a national chain owned by the Florida based OSI, who also owns all of the Outback Steakhouses. I'd hope you were referring to the Beachwood location which may be franchised?

I was informed it was a franchise, but I can double-check.

Well, P.F. Chang's is a national chain owned by the Florida based OSI, who also owns all of the Outback Steakhouses. I'd hope you were referring to the Beachwood location which may be franchised?

bizbiz, hip to the hospitality biz

I just dont understand these types of crimes.  They are entirely unproductive and pointless!!  At least when someone robs a convenient store, or tries to shoplift, or is going over the speed limit is doing something that is somehow helping themselves (I am not condoning this behavior).  This only hurts people and property.  They claim that they are doing it for recognition...then why dont they just write their full name accompanied by their social security number and an enlarged picture of themselves.  They would get noticed REAL quick that way and it would save police and residents all of that time spent looking for these idiots.

 

On another note:

This story seems similar to the one down in Cincy with suburban folks.  All of the people coming in from the 'burbs into OTR to buy drugs and solicit prostitution.  I guess the inner city should start a new type of profiling when it comes to crime (look to suburbs).

it disgusts me that people would crawl from their crap hole burbs and say such things about our city ("run down ghetto"). I am really steamed.one was a St.  Ignatius grad. I hope the criminal justice system gets them and good. Now who ever does the SYMS work...good lord they are everywhere and in difficult to access spaces.I have no idea how they do what they do. I say tag on Euclid several stores up, and each letter was at least 8 feet tall.  I noticed the Sym everwhere when I moved to Cleveland in 2002 and have seen no decrease.

I just dont understand these types of crimes.  They are entirely unproductive and pointless!!  At least when someone robs a convenient store, or tries to shoplift, or is going over the speed limit is doing something that is somehow helping themselves (I am not condoning this behavior).  This only hurts people and property.  They claim that they are doing it for recognition...then why dont they just write their full name accompanied by their social security number and an enlarged picture of themselves.  They would get noticed REAL quick that way and it would save police and residents all of that time spent looking for these idiots.

 

On another note:

This story seems similar to the one down in Cincy with suburban folks.  All of the people coming in from the 'burbs into OTR to buy drugs and solicit prostitution.  I guess the inner city should start a new type of profiling when it comes to crime (look to suburbs).

 

Again...why don't these people do this sh*t in their own hood if its all about name recognition?  They're just classless punks!

I wonder who "HEK" is. This person does a lot on the west side and downtown.

 

One of the buildings on Euclid by public square has a tag that says "Oh my god, its HEK".

i hate tags so much, i've really been thinking about printing off a bunch of stickers saying things criticisms of them. 

 

i think cleveland needs more creative graffiti, get some LED action going! and not just those throwies

I always hated the "Trust Jesus" things sprayed through a stencil that seemed to be everywhere in the early 90's...my friend called them "Vandals for Christ," and I always wondered if I missed a clause of the Great Commission:

go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you, and tag their buildings and signs with my name, that they will know I am with you always.

then there is CRIK on the east side......

 

still nothing beats the legendary TRTL

I think OTR is brought up in every Cleveland crime-related thread in the forum.

Does anyone remember the SNL with Guiliani as host?  They had a skit in which he revealed his plan for dealing with taggers.  They would right "sucks" after every tag, so that everyone would know that "_____ sucks".

 

For example:

 

HEK sucks

 

-or-

 

CRIK sucks

 

-or-

 

Trust Jesus sucks

^ there is a real life corollary to that. when they are sick of gang nonsense, the kids write "nfl" all around the gang tags.

 

nfl? nfl = neutral for life

 

i can get with that!!!!

 

 

There are so many ignorant suburbanites in this country, it makes me sick. That's not to say every suburbanite is bad (there actually are some very smart ones), but just the level of ignorance in some is very disheartening.

 

A friend of mine from school is from Mason (I'm from the westside), and I was talking with her about how we were raised/grew up and what not.  As I told her about how I grew up on the westside she responded by saying, "I didnt even know a westside existed...I just thought Cincinnati was north and south."

:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

 

Sorry to stray from the topic....wanted to share this story with the rest of you.  Proceed with the discussion!

I don't know how to respond to this.

 

Isn't Wickliffe kind of a shithole??

 

Kinda of??  I would say IT IS!

i hate tags so much, i've really been thinking about printing off a bunch of stickers saying things criticisms of them. 

 

i think cleveland needs more creative graffiti, get some LED action going! and not just those throwies

 

This is an excellent example.  Last year we got a famous tagger in NYC to do a tag on a buildingat broadway/Houston on a canvas tarp for TIME Magazine.  It was a huge controversy as people thought he "really" tagged the entire building but were amazed to find out we covered the entire side of the building to "create" this custome tag.

There's no doubt there are some talented artists out there who do great work that is technically vandalism.  I understand that there is a counter-culture that supports this and I'll admit that I found it quite attractive when I was a teeny-bopper.  And as MayDay said, there are a number of legitimate outlets for these artists through events like City Expressionz and Cincinnati's Scribble Jam. 

 

These two rug-rats, however, were not part of that "talented" set.  As much as they talked down about the city, they really just wanted to be accepted by it.  And, well, that didn't work out for them, did it?  How does a brand new playground (Fairview Park in Ohio City) equate to the "ghetto?"  They wrote their little kid scrawl all over this place before the first families ever got to use it.  F*ckers!

 

On a side note (and in response to the Ignatius comments), I grew up in the Heights and Ignatius was my first real exposure to Cleveland as a young adult.  The four years I spent there, which involved a lot of voluntary and forced community service, inspired me to move back to Cleveland and Ohio City as a 27-year-old.  Just as with any school, there are kids who take advantage of a great opportunity and those who don't...

 

 

east cleveland, represent

 

^Does that say "milk"?

and I thought it said "MILF"...

I think it says "I dropped out of school at age 19 while in the eighth grade, I have no idea who my father is, my mother is a crack whore, and I have no expectation of living to see 30, so what the f*ck, I'm gonna paint the town..."

I think it says "I dropped out of school at age 19 while in the eighth grade, I have no idea who my father is, my mother is a crack whore, and I have no expectation of living to see 30, so what the f*ck, I'm gonna paint the town..."

either that or.."I am a spoiled, white suburban sh*t who has crummy parents too busy obtaining material objects to raise their son properly..."

^ True, in the case of our latest two taggers.

I think it says "I dropped out of school at age 19 while in the eighth grade, I have no idea who my father is, my mother is a crack whore, and I have no expectation of living to see 30, so what the fuck, I'm gonna paint the town..."

either that or.."I am a spoiled, white suburban shit who has crummy parents too busy obtaining material objects to raise their son properly..."

 

They live in seven hills??  What are obtaining...a "double wide" or a "single wide"?  I mean, please!  that whole parma, parma hts, seven hills, brookpark area just screams "trailer park trash!"

One was from Seven Hills, the other from Wickliffe.

One was from Seven Hills, the other from Wickliffe.

 

Yes I know.  I meant "they" as in the parents of the boy from seven hills

wickliffe and seven hills aren't that bad.  they are containment areas for aging eastern europeans, my parents and grandparents included.  in their defense, wickliffe and seven hills both lack big box shopping blight and the accompanying traffic. 

wickliffe and seven hills aren't that bad.  they are containment areas for aging eastern europeans, my parents and grandparents included.  in their defense, wickliffe and seven hills both lack big box shopping blight and the accompanying traffic. 

 

don't you worry about seven hills, that's quickly changing

I think it says "I dropped out of school at age 19 while in the eighth grade, I have no idea who my father is, my mother is a crack whore, and I have no expectation of living to see 30, so what the f*ck, I'm gonna paint the town..."

either that or.."I am a spoiled, white suburban shit who has crummy parents too busy obtaining material objects to raise their son properly..."

 

They live in seven hills??  What are obtaining...a "double wide" or a "single wide"?  I mean, please!  that whole parma, parma hts, seven hills, brookpark area just screams "trailer park trash!"

 

I've lived in Seven Hills my entire life and you have totally mis-described it. It's a small suburb with the majority of the residents being middle- to upper-class and it's considered one of the safest cities in all of Ohio. There are no trailer parks in the entire city, nor have any ever existed. Sorry, but no big box stores, it's mostly peaceful minded residential living in our city. 2 sex offenders for 12,000 residents. Something like a fraction of the 1800 in Cleveland. The city is neighbors with Independence and they share Rockside Road, a business corridor. Soon, Rockside Terrace will be built in Seven Hills - one of the largest mixed-use projects the Cleveland metro has ever seen. No offense, but if I spat on your city, you'd take defense too.. maybe you should visit Seven Hills before calling it "trailer park trash".

hey I never said anything bad about 7 hills, just the little brat who came from there! sorry we all have our cackles raised. It sounds like a nice town...one where the people would not appreciate a vandal...

I think it says "I dropped out of school at age 19 while in the eighth grade, I have no idea who my father is, my mother is a crack whore, and I have no expectation of living to see 30, so what the f*ck, I'm gonna paint the town..."

either that or.."I am a spoiled, white suburban sh*t who has crummy parents too busy obtaining material objects to raise their son properly..."

 

They live in seven hills??  What are obtaining...a "double wide" or a "single wide"?  I mean, please!  that whole parma, parma hts, seven hills, brookpark area just screams "trailer park trash!"

 

I've lived in Seven Hills my entire life and you have totally mis-described it. It's a small suburb with the majority of the residents being middle- to upper-class and it's considered one of the safest cities in all of Ohio. There are no trailer parks in the entire city, nor have any ever existed. Sorry, but no big box stores, it's mostly peaceful minded residential living in our city. 2 sex offenders for 12,000 residents. Something like a fraction of the 1800 in Cleveland. The city is neighbors with Independence and they share Rockside Road, a business corridor. Soon, Rockside Terrace will be built in Seven Hills - one of the largest mixed-use projects the Cleveland metro has ever seen. No offense, but if I spat on your city, you'd take defense too.. maybe you should visit Seven Hills before calling it "trailer park trash".

 

I haven't spent ANY REAL time in those communities, but from an "at a glance look" that how I viewed them.  Growing up in Shaker my entire life, whenever I thought of those communities or we went to any of those communites,for various reason, that how I viewed them, compared to the lifestyle I was accustomed to.

 

Point taken... you're right .. I would be defensive...

hey I never said anything bad about 7 hills, just the little brat who came from there! sorry we all have our cackles raised. It sounds like a nice town...one where the people would not appreciate a vandal...

 

I'm actually moving out of Seven Hills, but moreso because I want to live in the core of Cleveland, but I will continue to admire Seven Hills as a peaceful and friendly suburb. That grafitti guy was obviously a bad apple.

welcome to the city!...you too will become a defensive, but proud Clevelander in no time at all.

make sure all your graffiti is pretty...and is done with chalk or at appropriate art festivals!

Taggers should have their tags tattooed on their faces, so their victims would know them on sight. They want recognition, right?

Taggers should have their tags tattooed on their faces, so their victims would know them on sight. They want recognition, right?

 

agreed!!!

Taggers should have their tags tattooed on their faces, so their victims would know them on sight. They want recognition, right?

 

The Scarlet Tag!

There are many forms of grafitti. From the wide array of gang language to the marking of territories to just plain up trying to destroy private property, it's a topic that needs to be addressed!

 

In recent years, I've seen grafitti really take its toll on the city of Cleveland. Some of the most un-talented grafitti I've ever seen has been popping up on all sorts of objects. From historic buildings to highway signs and bridges up above - it's getting on my nerves and it seems like there is no end to this madness. I have noticed this grafitti issue mostly on the near west side between Tremont and Ohio City, particularly the Duck Island area, near the I-490/I-90/I-71/176 junction, all over Chinatown, and throughout the east side. I am so sick of seeing "HEK", "MEK", "Miho", "Droids", and the countless others all over beautiful buildings, brand new street signs, and in places that are very difficult to remove it from. The Cadillac building on the corner of E. 30th St. and Chester got hit all over by "Miho" recently. Little does "Miho" know that the building is on the historic registrar's list. "Miho" went on to hit up just about every street sign on Chester and Perkins between E. 30th and E. 40th St. one day last week. "Miho" also hit many bus stops and signs along Clifton Boulevard in Cleveland recently. "Miho" likes to usee quotation marks as if he is famous, which is an ultimate piss-off in my mind. "HEK" and "MEK" can be found on 1000's of signs, buildings, and objects throughout the area. Many of which are otherwise clean areas. Regards to the condition of a building or sign are disregarded as these people go out and spray up what they want when they want. The freeway is decorated real nice over by the I-90/I-490 junction. The "Droids" somehow climbed up on the wall of the freeway overpass and signed their names along with a nice RIP message to one of their most likely dead affiliates.

 

It seems like some of the grafitti is being removed and cleaned up, but it also appears that most of it goes nowhere. A big "FUCK YOU" graces a small building on E. 30th St. that is for sale (and has been for sale for a long time) near the I-90/Superior exit. I've complained to MidTown and Cleveland but nobody seems to care. The only grafitti that has been removed from my neighborhood is by people like myself who are being good samaritans. Many businesses don't seem to care either. I have seen several buildings covered with grafitti that is such an eyesore go completely unnoticed by the business owner. Much of this work is the work of gangs and experienced grafitti artists. But most of the pro's keep to dark shadowy areas (e.g. underneath bridges, train cars, and secluded spots). On the other hand, there are some people who seem to think that having a can of spraypaint is legal permission to destroy the city.

 

What's being done to curb this problem? It's still so damn easy to buy spraypaint and marker pens at any hardware store. There seems to be no desire by the city, the police, or organizations to even stop this problem or clean it up. My mind thinks that cleaning it up as fast as it appears is one solution. That proved very effective in reducing the grafitti that tanked NYC in the 70's and 80's. There should also be harsh laws for those who break the law and destroy property. No more of this "probation" bullshit. It should be a major crime to deface property, especially historic buildings, bridges, and official highway/government street signage. Speed limit signs and highway exit signs should not be obstructed by grafitti. Not only do many remain uncleaned for months or years, but it seems like ODOT, the city, and whoever else just doesn't give a shit.

 

I can only do so much for my neighborhood. It's obvious that the perpetrator's are local and living nearby in most of these instances. Besides "HEK" and "MEK" which is probably the same person, most grafitti is isolated to specific blocks and neighborhoods. Why don't we capture one of the bad boys and make it clear to the rest that our city's beauty doesn't need to be destroyed by pathetic high school dropouts with nothing better to do.

Isn't it Singapore that canes people for vandalism?  I like that idea.

"In recent years, I've seen grafitti really take its toll on the city of Cleveland."

 

Yes folks - only in Cleveland is there untalented graffiti, and only in Cleveland do people drive slowly in the left lane, and only in Cleveland would a significant landmark be demolished, and only in Cleveland do they have a strange layout for a beer garden at a festival, and only in Cleveland... do you people ever get out of the 216 area code? As if any of the above problems are solely Cleveland phenomenon?!? :roll:

 

"There seems to be no desire by the city, the police, or organizations to even stop this problem or clean it up."

 

CITY of CLEVELAND Graffiti Abatement Program

 

DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SERVICE DIVISION OF STREETS

 

PROGRAM OBJECTIVE: To ensure the removal of graffiti from all areas of the City of Cleveland

 

ACTIVITY:

 

Eradicate graffiti with the use of City employees and volunteers.

 

Enforcement of anti-graffiti ordinances.

 

Educating the public, especially children, concerning the negative aspects of having graffiti in the neighborhoods.

 

Empowerment of the community to take action to eliminate graffiti through the various community groups

 

Through this program the City will removes graffiti from commercial and industrial buildings at no cost to the owner. Since the program is complaint driven a company should call Barbara who mans the streets maintenance complaint line at (216) 664-2310. The request is then sent to either Mr. Warren or Mr. Powers for processing at the facility located at 49th and Harvard. The direct number to that location is (216) 432-6000.

......................

 

"In recent years, I've seen grafitti really take its toll on the city of Cleveland."

 

Yes folks - only in Cleveland is there untalented graffiti, and only in Cleveland do people drive slowly in the left lane, and only in Cleveland would a significant landmark be demolished, and only in Cleveland do they have a strange layout for a beer garden at a festival, and only in Cleveland... do you people ever get out of the 216 area code? As if any of the above problems are solely Cleveland phenomenon?!? :roll:

 

Preach Brotha, Preach.   

I often think the same damn thing!

 

Don't limit this to the "216" area code, those with "330 & 440" area codes (lan or cell) are not immune!

The thread is specifically addressing Cleveland's grafitti problem. I don't think I need to mention that every big city has similar problems, isn't that a common understanding here on Urbanohio?

Sorry - it's just that this is the latest thread of people complaining about a legitimate problem - however, the general tone is that the problem in question is somehow limited to Cleveland. Regardless, as I posted there is a solution and you were incorrect in suggesting that the city has no desire or system to abate graffiti. Your tax dollars support the graffiti abatement program, yet apparently you didn't even know it existed.

 

Now, do people use the tools available to them? Do business/property owners make use of the graffiti abatement program? It's easier for people to b!tch and moan rather than extend themselves enough to contact the appropriate authorities who can help remedy the problem - now THAT is a "only in Cleveland" problem!

"In recent years, I've seen grafitti really take its toll on the city of Cleveland."

 

Yes folks - only in Cleveland is there untalented graffiti, and only in Cleveland do people drive slowly in the left lane, and only in Cleveland would a significant landmark be demolished, and only in Cleveland do they have a strange layout for a beer garden at a festival, and only in Cleveland... do you people ever get out of the 216 area code? As if any of the above problems are solely Cleveland phenomenon?!? :roll:

 

"There seems to be no desire by the city, the police, or organizations to even stop this problem or clean it up."

 

CITY of CLEVELAND Graffiti Abatement Program

 

DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SERVICE DIVISION OF STREETS

 

PROGRAM OBJECTIVE: To ensure the removal of graffiti from all areas of the City of Cleveland

 

ACTIVITY:

 

Eradicate graffiti with the use of City employees and volunteers.

 

Enforcement of anti-graffiti ordinances.

 

Educating the public, especially children, concerning the negative aspects of having graffiti in the neighborhoods.

 

Empowerment of the community to take action to eliminate graffiti through the various community groups

 

Through this program the City will removes graffiti from commercial and industrial buildings at no cost to the owner. Since the program is complaint driven a company should call Barbara who mans the streets maintenance complaint line at (216) 664-2310. The request is then sent to either Mr. Warren or Mr. Powers for processing at the facility located at 49th and Harvard. The direct number to that location is (216) 432-6000.

......................

 

 

Geez, Mayday, a little harsh, no?

 

Bizbiz, let us know if calls to the complaint line yield any results, I'd be curious to see how effective a program this is.