10 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

Newport already has a modern bridge that handles TANK well.  The Campbell County TANK routes are logical and about as efficient as they could be short of signal prioritization for TANK buses at either end of the bridge.   The situation for Boone and Kenton County TANK buses is ridiculous. People forget that when Rivercenter I & II were built in the early 1990s, funds had been appropriated by Ohio and Kentucky to build the Race-Madison Bridge.  The TANK transit center was built in the 10-story parking garage for this reason.  Then around 1995 the rug was pulled out from under TANK - the Race-Madison bridge money was shifted upstream to the "new" (now 20 year-old) Maysville bridge.  Building a transit-only bridge at Race/Madison gives transit a big advantage over private car travel and ride share.  It's as good as we can do without digging a real subway line with a tunnel under the river.

 

Even if a bridge is not part of the plan, I'm confident that building a new "spur" on Race, Elm, or split between each is the smartest thing we could do with $50 million.  There would be roughly 2x as many streetcars on the OTR section, so the service would be very visible, even during off-peak hours.  There is also the opportunity to build a new downtown alignment "correctly", with protected ROW where needed and signal prioritization from the get-go.    

 

I don't think that extending the line with a spur to the West End (i.e. Ezzard Charles) makes a ton of sense under current conditions.  Frankly I think the Central Parkway section of the line should be removed and be replaced with double tracking on 12th.  To reach Ezzard Charles, the double-tracked line would simply continue west on 12th then turn north either on Central Parkway or Central Ave.  

 

I'll argue 'till the end that the separation of the tracks between Central Parkway and 12th helped undermine Phase 1.  It makes what should be a very simple system hard for people to understand.  And basically nobody at 12th and Vine walks south to the Central Parkway station to then ride the streetcar downtown. 

 

So why not go over the bridge to Newport and reallocate the TANK bus service somewhere else. 

2 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

So why not go over the bridge to Newport and reallocate the TANK bus service somewhere else. 

 

TANK has the dilemma of having to serve Covington's downtown and Cincinnati's downtown but with no direct connection between them. 

 

The traveling distance between the TANK transit center in Covington and Cincinnati's Government Square is exactly 1 mile via the suspenion bridge or a new bridge and passes through 8 intersections with stop signs or traffic signals.  The traveling distance between those same points currently, via the Clay Wade Bailey Bridge, is roughly twice as far and has 4-6 more stop signs/traffic signals depending on the direction of travel. 

 

So for each TANK bus, a round trip under the current configuration is 2 miles longer and involves upwards of 10 more stop signs or potential red lights than it would if buses were allowed back on the suspension bridge, which won't happen without a retrofit, or with a new bridge.  The idea I shared above, which would borrow from the approach to Dixie Terminal that existed for 100~ years, would be to pass above Race St. from The Banks north to 4th St., which would avoid 3 potential red lights and get buses and possibly the streetcar out of rush hour and event traffic. 

 

^ For comparison, think about what it would be like if we had a subway with a stop under Fountain Square and a stop under Downtown Covington. It would be an extremely quick and painless ride between the two points. Maybe a 2 minute ride. It would take longer to go up and down the escalators at each end than the train ride itself. Something like that would transform our region almost instantly and start to knit neighborhood together.

1 hour ago, taestell said:

^ For comparison, think about what it would be like if we had a subway with a stop under Fountain Square and a stop under Downtown Covington. It would be an extremely quick and painless ride between the two points. Maybe a 2 minute ride. It would take longer to go up and down the escalators at each end than the train ride itself. Something like that would transform our region almost instantly and start to knit neighborhood together.

 

The only downside of a subway tunnel is that buses couldn't use it.  So we'd have a profoundly improved situation for those who live on the train line but buses still wouldn't be able to cross back and forth directly between the two downtowns.  I don't believe that a combined tunnel for trains and buses (like Seattle or what was planned for Nashville) is a good idea because the tunnel would have to be so deep that the buses wouldn't be able to surface close to either shoreline. 

7 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

I don't believe that a combined tunnel for trains and buses (like Seattle or what was planned for Nashville) is a good idea because the tunnel would have to be so deep that the buses wouldn't be able to surface close to either shoreline. 

 

Well--and this is all completely hypothetical, of course--there is plenty of room at the IRS site to have ramp that goes from street level down to the tunnel. I'm not sure where you would surface buses on the Cincinnati side, but I would think that you would want them to use the tunnel through downtown and OTR in order to bypass surface congestion. Maybe even have buses use the tunnel to go up the hill and surface somewhere around MLK.

Council Member Jeff Pastor (R) comes out strong in support of light rail for Greater Cincinnati:

 

 

 

(View the whole thread here.)

35 minutes ago, taestell said:

Council Member Jeff Pastor (R) comes out strong in support of light rail for Greater Cincinnati:

 

 

 

(View the whole thread here.)

 

I haven't heard anyone in public view talk about Cincinnati Mass Transit that fervently in my decade living here.  Hopefully he spearheads the initiative and gets the Gang of Five to also endorse and push for it.

This is so cool! When was the last time someone on city council spoke out in support of light rail? I legitimately cant remember hearing someone speak up about this 

If City Council is smart about this, they will study extending the existing streetcar system to reach more neighborhoods. Since SORTA already got their bus money, I doubt they have any interest in putting together a big rail plan and going back to the polls to ask for more money.

19 minutes ago, taestell said:

If City Council is smart about this, they will study extending the existing streetcar system to reach more neighborhoods. Since SORTA already got their bus money, I doubt they have any interest in putting together a big rail plan and going back to the polls to ask for more money.

 

The OKI 2050 plan has an extension to Newport as part of the fiscally constrained portion of the plan. It also has a transit vision section with extensions to UC and from the Museum Center to the casino. It also has a light rail vision plan based on previously identified possible light rail lines. That would be a good place for the Councilman to start his conversation.

43 minutes ago, seaswan said:

This is so cool! When was the last time someone on city council spoke out in support of light rail? I legitimately cant remember hearing someone speak up about this 

 

There are lots of things I don't like about Pastor, and I haven't voted for a Republican since 2008. But if he ran for mayor on a solid plan to create a light rail system I would vote for him.

Pastor continues to surprise. He's lucky he's a Republican because if this came from a Democrat on council, 700 and the Enquirer would lose their minds and make it into some absurd story for weeks. 

I am skeptical that all of this big talk about building light rail will actually amount to anything. It would have been cool if we had a conversation about dramatically improving transit before passing a modest bus-only transit tax. Until Pastor introduces an ordinance directing the city administration to kick off an in-depth light rail study, it's all talk.

He is certainly one of the most online local politicians and tends to make long posts about his worldview so he probably read a hot take somewhere which inspired him to speak out about it.

Yesterday, I saw an older model bus from WSTA (Winston-Salem Transit Authority) driving down Plum St. Any ideas what it is being used for?

 

@Cygnus Darryl Haley said in the SORTA board meeting that Metro ordered 19 new buses and they have made their way downtown to prep. I'm guessing that would be one of those 19? 

 

Edit to add more detail: The report says "Most of the 19 newest buses ordered have arrived and are being prepped for service. We expect to have them on the road in August for customers to add that new bus smell."

 

He said "We've started receiving the new fleet for this year. We have received 19 of the 29 buses we are going to get this year. They're going to look a little different from the other buses... We've got 10 more coming, you'll be able to see the new fleet."

 

~46:30 here.  

Edited July 21, 20204 yr by shawk
fix spelling of Darryl's name and add quote from report

So "new" buses are just new to us???

This is like when North Korea bought Munich's subway cars and forgot to scratch out the German writing.  

Not sure if this is the appropriate thread/place but appreciate your recent episodes on the CincyShirts podcast @jmecklenborgand @jjakucyk! 

I have no problem with it ? and thanks!  

20 minutes ago, jjakucyk said:

I have no problem with it ? and thanks!  

Which episode are you in? I haven't listened to the subway episode yet.

 I'm in 132 and Jake is 138.  133 on the airport is really good too.  https://cincyshirts.podbean.com 

Uhhh...

Cincinnati’s future: Cars and CVG, not rail, OKI chief says

 

Mark Policinski, the CEO of the Ohio-Kentucky-Indiana Regional Council of Governments, is the most important local government official most people have never heard of: OKI's board is the final decision maker for the annual allocation of tens of millions of dollars in federal transportation funding.

...

“Cincinnati is one of the most car-centric places in the United States. Why? Some people say it’s because we’re stupid. No. It’s because we have three highways that run through us on three separate trade corridors,” Policinski said.

 

He downplayed the notion of the region ever building light rail, which failed at the ballot box in 2002, or expanding the Cincinnati Bell Connector streetcar.

 

“I don’t know how to describe the streetcar. It was poorly planned. People don’t understand why it’s necessary. The streetcar – it’s not as successful as people thought it would be. If you were opposed to it, you were unwoke, you were a neanderthal,” Policinski said. “The streetcar doesn’t connect anything."

...

Meanwhile, a fully built-out light rail system might cost as much as $12 billion, Policinski said.

 

“What are we going to do, get in a transit vehicle? Cars are going to be the backbone of transportation in this region,” Policinski said. "Because of the technology taking place, (cities like) New York, Chicago, Boston are always going to have rail. Cities like Cincinnati are not.”

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2021/10/08/cincinnati-s-future-cars-and-cvg-not-rail.html

This guy clearly should not be in his role.

I find his comments to be frankly dissapointing and backwards thinking from someone who is the leader of the organization that helps determine what transportation and infrastructure projects recieve funding. 

 

No wonder there has been no traction in the area of planning a transportation system for the future in Cincinnati. His comments seem stuck in 1985. 

 

Having local leaders like him is exactly why our city and area is falling behind its peers. 

 

This also brings to me a need for further scrutiny of OKI, I saw the 2050 public input and comments. Many of them in the area of rail, pedestrian safety improvements, were simply ignored and left out of the final OKI 2050 plans. 

 

The difference in OKI 2040 and 2050 in terms of projects given support is incredibly stark. 

3 minutes ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

This guy clearly should not be in his role.

And I agree with this. The fact he is simply dismissing the notion of a light rail system by overestimating the cost of such a system by including fuel costs in the equation whilst ignoring the brent spence bridge replacement will likely cost 7 billion now. It's hypocritical and small minded. 

 

A more balanced thinker and one who embraces multimodal 15 minute city ideas of the future should be in his role, not someone who actively seems keen on suppressing anything that is not car or airport related. 

 

How long has he been in this role?

Reading that article it felt like a press release from a Highway construction lobbyist not the person in charge of shaping the vision for transportation in a region of nearly 2.5M people. 
 

Not to mention some of the phrases/verbiage he uses comes across as he is just trying to dismiss any mass transit idea as being some pie in the sky absurdity. (Such as saying the streetcar is “woke”) 

 

Then to go on and say “cities like cincinnati can’t have mass transit we only can have cars”. When there are peer cities in conservative states that do have light rail (Salt Lake which is a region half our size and Charlotte to name a few). 
 

anyway - he just seems way more interested in appealing to a room of retired suburbanites than actually helping to solve any problem. And that’s an issue for an appointed position that effects so many people. 

Some of these people get warehouse on the brain and only think about that all day since the numbers are big.

Getting tons of warehouse will make him look good when he inevitably moves on to Dallas or Huston or something. He doesn't need rail transit to do that.

On 10/9/2021 at 12:59 PM, GCrites80s said:

Some of these people get warehouse on the brain

Is "get warehouse on the brain" an idiom? I tried Googling and can't figure out what this means. 

On 10/9/2021 at 7:50 AM, wjh2 said:

And that’s an issue for an appointed position that effects so many people. 

Just want to add that OKI's board is not appointed proportionately. NOACA's board is proportional so they have more interest in investing in the urban core. I'm not going to say that they are good, but clearly better than OKI.

8 hours ago, jwulsin said:

Is "get warehouse on the brain" an idiom? I tried Googling and can't figure out what this means. 

 

MPO people who are thinking too much about warehouse development at the expense of other projects.

16 minutes ago, GCrites80s said:

 

MPO people who are thinking too much about warehouse development at the expense of other projects.

Ahh.. Gotcha! 

City of Cincinnati seeks ideas for abandoned subway tunnel

 

The city of Cincinnati is looking for ideas on how the city’s historic subway tunnel might be repurposed.

 

The Department of Transportation and Engineering submitted a request for information, or RFI, to the city’s online bid portal Sept. 26. The submission deadline is Oct. 17, according to the RFI document.

 

The city is seeking “conceptual proposals for possible reuse of all or portions of the existing abandoned Cincinnati Subway tunnel.” The intended purpose may be commercial or otherwise. The city could use the information gleaned from submitted plans in a request for proposals bid at a later date.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2024/10/03/cincinnati-abandoned-subway-tunnel-central-parkway.html

 

Anybody know how they're planning on removing the water main? Where would the new water main go? Pretty exciting to think of options for that tunnel if the water main is indeed removed. At the very least, it would be awesome to have regularly scheduled guided tours. 

I mean...just put a train in it!

It would be incredibly on brand of Cincinnati to turn it into another middling Tesla tunnel like the one in Vegas.  

Step 1. Remove the cap and fill with water, step 2.... Step 3 Profit. 

 

Make Over the Rhine, over the Rhine again.

Two mile long Meow Wolf Cincinnati! We can even find space to recreate the boat ride from Willy Wonka in a non trademark infringing/mega LSD trippy way. THAT would draw people underground way more than another beer hall or mini mall. https://meowwolf.com/

Or, at the very least, Hogwarts Express Cincinnati.

7 minutes ago, ColDayMan said:

Or, at the very least, Hogwarts Express Cincinnati.

Polar Express during the Christmas holiday by adding uncanny valley AI automatons that sit beside you and creep you out

.

I know it won't happen, But if you could, what kind of rail service would you use the tunnel for? The Mill Creek Valley is very depopulated nowaday's, and it's right next to I-75 so there isn't a ton of opportunity for development. 

Put some damn trains in it! They could run a line from the West Side or Northside and enter the old tunnel portals, run under Central Pkwy and spit out somewhere on the East side. Then build an elevated line on viaduct up I-71 or reuse the old rail RoW to connect at Xavier.

 

Something like the Purple Line from this idea could work. If you're going to be rebuilding I-75 try to get some Federal Transit dollars and do a city-only MetroMoves while they're at it. https://metro-cincinnati.info/?page_id=135 

2 hours ago, SleepyLeroy said:

Polar Express during the Christmas holiday by adding uncanny valley AI automatons that sit beside you and creep you out

.

And if you open a dispensary nearby… now we’re cooking with grass.

On 10/4/2024 at 2:38 PM, RustyBFall said:

I know it won't happen, But if you could, what kind of rail service would you use the tunnel for? The Mill Creek Valley is very depopulated nowaday's, and it's right next to I-75 so there isn't a ton of opportunity for development. 

If the line ran from Central/Walnut downtown under the current streetcar stop, up to Northside it could run inside the tunnel until Marshal Ave, crossing under the highway and then running through Camp Washington up to Northside. I think there would actually be the ability to add a lot of transit oriented development in the northern West End, Camp Washington and Northside which could be huge. I agree it probably won't happen and it can't hold modern light rail vehicles but there is potential for the route nonetheless.

In 2007 the city studied upgrading the tunnel to light rail. I didn't see anything about the tunnel not being capable of holding a light rail vehicle. I think you'd probably not want to have a ton of stops downtown, maybe 3 tops, because of the length of a train.

I want to say that the limitation was the size of some modern vehicles, including the streetcar vehicles we have in town, but that smaller vehicles similar to the Boston Blue Line would fit. This is one subject that @Lazarus should weigh in on instead of complaining about the innovation district, local news, people's love of shade at street festivals etc. 

Opinion: City should use empty subway tunnel for its original use - transit

Cincinnati's abandoned subway should be repurposed toward its original use - transit. Before looking at the present day, it is important to tell the story of why Cincinnati is home to the country's largest abandoned subway tunnel by looking back at events that transpired over the past 100 years.

 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/opinion/contributors/2024/10/11/opinion-time-to-consider-using-empty-subway-tunnels-for-transit/75570287007/

The...Enquirer...published that?  Hell is freezing over.