At that time, officials wanted to build an elaborate $2.6 billion light rail system over 30 years that would travel from downtown Cincinnati along Interstate 71 to Blue Ash and another line along Interstate 75 from downtown to Sharonville.

 

All this talk about the downtown streetcar proposal, I forgot the other possibility of a county-wide light rail system similar to this map: [Regional Rail Plan.pdf].  [glow=red,2,300]Any news on the light rail system plan being revived?[/glow]

oh heavens no.

Existing and acquirable rights-of-way and some level of neighborhood interest exist to build light rail from downtown to the UC Medical Center to Xavier to Rookwood and through Hyde Park/Oakley to Cincinnati corporate limits. And maybe, using the southern part of the same alignment, from Xavier to Tri-County. The other three light rail lines are less likely.

^Damn...I was holding my breath for a lightrail connection out here in Dent.  I was going to be in heaven!!! :wink:

^Damn...I was holding my breath for a lightrail connection out here in Dent.  I was going to be in heaven!!! :wink:

 

Yeah, well ...

This t-shirt is a bit spendy, sure, but I just bought one.

 

http://wireandtwine.com/store/products/cincytransit.html

I might buy one...and then frame it (like you see with autographed jerseys).  Hey, maybe I'll get John Schneider to sign it! :laugh:

 

seriously  :|

This t-shirt is a bit spendy, sure, but I just bought one.

 

http://wireandtwine.com/store/products/cincytransit.html

 

Too bad "West Chester" is so prominently plastered right across the top. :/

This t-shirt is a bit spendy, sure, but I just bought one.

 

http://wireandtwine.com/store/products/cincytransit.html

 

Too bad "West Chester" is so prominently plastered right across the top. :/

 

and apparently OTR is north of Mt Auburn and Corryville is west of Clifton.

 

Great idea though.

That's Mt Adams, not Mt Auburn. So while it's not geographically accurate, I could imagine it being placed like that in some stylized map. I doubt that stop would exist, but there you go.

 

Corryville is clearly incorrect. Maybe he meant Clifton heights?

 

At any rate, I dig it. Particularly when you keep in mind it's meant to be tongue in cheek.

Looks like it magically turns from Mt. Airy to Elmwood Place to Mt. Airy. 

 

 

>Too bad "West Chester" is so prominently plastered right across the top.

 

Well maybe the next step is a Butler County Transit for Optimists map. 

 

 

Looks like it magically turns from Mt. Airy to Elmwood Place to Mt. Airy. 

 

 

>Too bad "West Chester" is so prominently plastered right across the top.

 

Well maybe the next step is a Butler County Transit for Optimists map.

 

The second 'Mt Airy' is actually Mt Healthy...thats what it says on the shirt.  Its not that hard to read...is it??

Yeah that's what I meant to type.  Maybe this guy thinks College Hill is Elmwood Place...I think the original Vince's Place bar is in Elmwood Place and Vince's Other Place is in Mt. Healthy, no doubt that's where his confusion stemmed from!

Mass transit in mass discussion

BY NICOLE HAMILTON | [email protected]

April 10, 2007

 

IMAGE: Map of potential routes and different alternatives.

The Downtowner

 

IMAGE: Map of potential 1st Phase.

The Downtowner

 

DOWNTOWN – As the revitalization of Cincinnati’s urban neighborhoods gathers momentum, city developers, Downtown residents and mass transit advocates are asking:

 

“How will we connect these growing communities?”

Mass transit advocates such as John Schneider, chair of the Alliance for Regional Transit, Cincinnati City Councilman Chris Bortz, and Metro CEO Mike Setzer say it is time for changes in how we can get around town.

 

The case for light rail has been – and will continue to be - made by advocates at the City and County levels. Downtown business and community leaders recently worked with the City to plan a streetcar route that would link Downtown neighborhoods. And Metro’s quest to improve the City’s bus system is an ongoing effort.

 

Case for Light Rail and Streetcars

After finishing graduate school, Schneider spent some time traveling Europe. Since his return, he has been planning to buy a car.

 

But that was in 1976.

 

“I have been meaning to get around to it,” says Schneider, about buying a car. “But somehow it just hasn’t happened.”

 

As the only founding member of Downtown Cincinnati Inc. without a car, Schneider says the group voted him chair of their transportation committee one day when he wasn’t in the room.

 

In those days light rail, in all its glory, held no place for the city planner, who thought all Cincinnati needed to do was to make changes to the already existing Metro bus system.

 

He decided to do a little research and began taking trips – on his own dime – to cities with successful light rail systems.

 

In St. Louis, he found himself standing on an old rail platform next to a young mother with a stroller.

 

The two struck up a conversation about – what else? Light rail.

 

“She told me she loved it. With light rail she was able to go to college and still care for her children,” Schneider says of his encounter.

 

He says he looked at her, standing all alone with her books and her baby and he realized: “There is a human element to this. Light rail [systems] changes lives.”

 

Since that day in St. Louis, Schneider has been leading efforts in Cincinnati in hopes that others will have that same epiphany.

 

He has spear-headed political initiatives to bring more mass transit to our region, including the failed bond issue on the 2002 ballot, which would have brought both streetcars and light rail to the region.

 

He is a member of the Cincinnati Planning Commission and chairs the Alliance for Regional Transit. And over the past five years, he has led 20 tours of Cincinnatians to Portland, Ore. to show its successful mass transit system.

 

Portland is the only city operating a modern streetcar, and Schneider says developing a similar streetcar system in Cincinnati “just makes sense.” He says people are ready for it.

 

“The 2002 issue failed mostly in the townships,” says Schneider. “But it passed in places like Downtown, Clifton, and Hyde Park.”

 

And so, he says, the plan is to start with a streetcar route in the urban core – to connect the future Banks area on the Ohio River to Findlay Market.

 

Vice Mayor Jim Tarbell is a staunch supporter for streetcars, and he says his epiphany came when he and his wife Brenda were in San Francisco a few years ago. That city has refurbished old streetcars for their highly-popular F-Line.

 

Tarbell says he had “de ja vue” riding the streetcar one evening and when he arrived at his stop, he got out and paused to look at the front of the streetcar.

 

“It said Cincinnati, Ohio,” he says.

 

That’s when he knew it was time to bring the mode of transportation back to our city. “At that moment in San Francisco, I realized that we can reclaim the best in historic things. I cannot think of a vision other than this one that has the ability to advance our city,” says Tarbell.

 

“To me, a streetcar is a one car train,” says Schneider, who acknowledges that a streetcar is a good precursor to light rail. “I think people will get used to [streetcars] and then we can see about light rail”

 

But the reason for adopting the streetcars, says Michael Moose, an architect for Glaserworks, is different than those for light rail – which is usually developed to meet the needs of commuters.

 

“If we were talking about getting people from Downtown to the airport, we would be talking about light rail,” says Moose.

 

Cincinnati City Councilman and streetcar advocate Chris Bortz agrees.

 

“This isn’t a commuter initiative – it’s an economic initiative,” says Bortz, who says if City Council approves the streetcar plan he will press for the streetcars to be up and running by 2010.

 

According to Moose, Portland initially invested about $72 million dollars into their streetcar initiative, and today the city estimates that it has profited $2.5 billion in return.

 

“My goal would be to have [the streetcars] here by 2010 – and it’s virtually unprecedented to get something to happen that fast, but I think the need is there,” says Bortz.

 

After looking at about six routes around the urban Cincinnati core, Moore says the group – headed up by Cincinnati City Architect Michael Moore, chose a route that would link the proposed Banks area along the Ohio River to the Findlay Market area in Over-the-Rhine.

 

The proposed route, which will cost about $100 million, is being examined by engineering firms Parsons-Brinckerhoff and Charlie Hales’ group, HDR, which launched the streetcars in Portland.

 

By early May, Moose estimates, the two groups will tell Moore what the economic impact of the proposed route would be.

 

“Right now we are looking at whether or not this is a good idea – this is a feasibility study. If the study comes back and this looks like something we should pursue, we will involve the public a lot more [to pick a route],” says Moore.

 

Both he and Bortz say they are confident that the findings will convince City Council to support the streetcar initiative.

 

“I have been with the City for more than a decade and never have I seen an initiative get so much enthusiasm,” says Moore.

 

Eventually, additional routes could be added from Downtown to Clifton and even Downtown to Northern Kentucky’s riverfront area.

 

Moore believes the Purple People Bridge and the Taylor-Southgate Bridge are both structurally equipped to handle streetcars.

 

Bortz says funding for the streetcars would come in a number of ways, including tax increments, and from local business improvement initiatives. Funding may also come from State and Federal dollars.

 

The installment of the streetcars would be much less involved than that of a light rail system. In fact, most of the City’s streets were designed to accommodate streetcars.

 

Moose says as more people move Downtown, the need for streetcars will only increase.

 

“You look at how many apartments and condos there are [in Downtown and Over-the-Rhine], and if they were all occupied there wouldn’t be enough parking spaces for everyone’s cars,” says Moose.

 

Clifton resident Brad Thomas, 23, rides Metro buses daily, and he says the streetcar doesn’t carry the stigma that Metro buses do.

 

“People think you ride the bus because you have to but you take a streetcar because you can,” he says. “I do own a car – and I don’t agree with that stereotype.”

 

He says a streetcar would help advance the arts and entertainment aspects of the city – people could get to different venues like the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra in Over-the-Rhine and nightclubs and restaurants Downtown without having to leave worry about parking.

 

And he says mass transit is safe alternative for those who love the nightlife.

 

“Metro has probably saved me from getting a DUI,” he says.

 

Moose uses Portland as an example of how the streetcar invites a more urban, pedestrian lifestyle. And he says streetcars are ideal for handicapped passengers. Not only do they sit closer to the ground than Metro buses, but they offer ramps for easy entry and double doors.

 

“The only problem Portland has had so far is that the streetcars get too crowded. That’s not the worst problem to have,” says Bortz.

 

And he says the timing couldn’t be better for the addition of streetcars to the city’s urban core.

 

“When you look at all the growth going on in Downtown – from the Gateway Quarter on Vine Street to the renovation of Fountain Square – that is what I consider real development,” says Bortz. “How are you going to connect all of this development together? The answer is obvious – with streetcars.”

 

Metro Buses Look to the Future

The earliest streetcars could be rolling down Cincinnati streets as early as 2010. But Cincinnati Metro CEO Michael Setzer, who sits on the Citizens Advisory Committee for the Streetcar Initiative, says Metro’s goal is to constantly improve the city’s bus system. And when Cincinnati commuters have more mass transit options, Metro will be ready.

 

“We’ve seen this coming,” says Setzer, of the efforts to bring streetcars and possibly light rail to Cincinnati. “And when it happens, Metro will still be providing great transportation services to our customers. We [mass transit operations] will work together.”

 

Setzer says Metro’s primary focus is on balancing its budget, improving customer relations, and developing ways to bring more young professional riders to Metro.

 

“We wanted to get the house in order,” says Martin, of Metro’s recent initiatives. “The past three years has been about being ready for whatever comes next.”

 

Metro recently launched an extensive training program for its drivers, and had established a Community Advisory Committee two years ago that gives Metro staff feedback about their services.

 

“We are a Downtown retailer,” says Sallie Hilvers, chief communications officer for Metro.

 

If a rider has a bad experience, Hilvers says, we may never see them again.”

 

Another program Metro started that has wielded great results is its senior management “Adopted Customer” program that pairs a Metro executive with a regular Metro rider.

 

“It’s another way for us to get feedback about the job we are doing – we are seeing things through the eyes of our customers.” says Hilvers

 

Metro hired design firm LPK to design a new brand identity for the bus system. Not only did it design a new bus logo around the themes of “Fresh, friendly, green and approachable.” They also helped develop the look of the new Web site (www.go-metro.com). It also added online trip planning.

 

By April 16, Hilvers says passengers will be able to purchase bus passes online.

 

“This is about making transit cool,” says Hilvers. “Metro is about being green, environmentally-friendly, and making things easier for commuters.”

 

Through a partnership with Lily-Pad, Metro now offers free wireless internet access at Government Square, the Anderson Lake Park & Ride, the Cincinnati Museum Center, and the Cincinnati Art Museum.

 

And Metro has also helped advance public art initiatives – from partnering with art programs like InkTank and ArtWorks to installing two sculptures at Government Square. Metro also secured the federal funding for a mural by Chad Scholten at the Riverfront Transit Center, owned by the City.

 

Hilvers says Metro is working with Downtown Cincinnati Inc., the Over-the-Rhine Chamber, and the University of Cincinnati on initiatives to better serve Downtown and the college communities.

 

Metro will begin offering free rides for all University of Cincinnati students, faculty, and staff later this year.

 

“We tripled our rider ship in six weeks when we did our study,” says Hilvers.

 

Recently, Metro buses started using an ultra-low sulfur fuel to comply with 2007 Federal Emissions Standards, and Hilvers says they are looking to buy more hybrid buses in the future. But, she says it’s an expensive endeavor – the average new hybrid costs about $500,000.

 

Metro buses have a life of about 12 years. The goal, says Hilvers, is replace Metro buses when they reach their life expectancy. Then, they try to replace it with the most environmentally-friendly model possible.

 

With 22 million riders a year – and with all routes connecting people to Downtown – Metro is an essential part of the city’s infrastructure.

 

And Setzer says it will also be an essential part in Cincinnati’s future mass transit initiatives.

 

“Metro can play a supportive role [in the development of other mass transit]. We always say, ‘Let us know how we can help.’”

Here are a pair of test shots I took in the subway this past weekend, specifically the short tunnel under the intersection of Hopple St. and Central Parkway.  These shots are from the end of the tunnel looking back toward the entrance.  This tunnel will likely be demolished in the upcoming reconstruction of I-75 because Hopple/MLK will be rebuilt on an overpass over Central Parkway.  This tunnel is about 400ft. long and these shots were taken at slight telephoto, making them look shorter than they are.     

 

 

 

 

 

I was down there testing the range of Pocket Wizard radio triggers...as these photos prove yes these transmitters can shoot through a foot of solid concrete with regularly spaced gaps.  They have an advertised range of 1,600ft. but I was a bit skeptical that they would work in a difficult environment like this.

 

So in other words I had a remote flash in the opposite tube triggered by an on-camera unit shotting back into the tube in which the camera was placed.    However in #2 I set the camera for 30 seconds and walked down the opposite tube popping another flash at regular intervals.  The yellowish-color in the foreground is thanks to a flashlight held by a member of my hack crew. 

 

Digital cameras (and film) aren't made for super-long exposures and I was a little upset by the misbehavior of the D70.  It reacts much differently from film, with odd red dots appearing around the frame if you don't allow the camera to process the exposure, which takes roughly as long as the exposure itself.  Also, daylight from the tunnel portal turns an odd pea green color while film would have rendered it correctly. 

 

When I do this "for real" I'm definitely leaning toward using film...using slide film, the color WILL be accurate. 

I love the subway. I've always dreamed of turning a portion of it into a restaurant/nightclub.

I love the subway. I've always dreamed of turning a portion of it into a restaurant/nightclub.

 

There's a gay bar downtown called, the "Subway".

from that article

 

"It's only about 25 miles from Kniss's office to her home, but driving to her little bit of heaven in the evenings is a grueling 75 minutes, meaning that, on average, her speedometer is hovering just above zero."

 

No that means her speedometer is hovering around 20.

And another thing, only 25 miles ? she is commuting 50 miles round trip, that is exactly 20 times my round trip commute.

On a totally different tune, i filled up my mom's car today.  $47.00.  I wonder if we had the same vote for light rail this year as we did back in 2002, if there would be a ton more people in favor.  It's getting ridiculous the amount of gas prices and traffic.  I just don't understand why cincinnati continues to be light years behind every other city in this area

It's getting ridiculous the amount of gas prices and traffic

 

not really, that is exactly what happens when a society is entirely dependent on the automobile.

On a totally different tune, i filled up my mom's car today.  $47.00.  I wonder if we had the same vote for light rail this year as we did back in 2002, if there would be a ton more people in favor.  It's getting ridiculous the amount of gas prices and traffic.  I just don't understand why cincinnati continues to be light years behind every other city in this area

 

Adjusted for inflation, gas prices in November 2002 were at just about the lowest level since the end of WWII.

On a totally different tune, i filled up my mom's car today.  $47.00.  I wonder if we had the same vote for light rail this year as we did back in 2002, if there would be a ton more people in favor.  It's getting ridiculous the amount of gas prices and traffic.  I just don't understand why cincinnati continues to be light years behind every other city in this area

 

Unfortunately I just read an article that was talking about how prices are up for gasoline, but demand continues to rise.  :|  I also wouldn't say that Cincinnati is 'light years' behind other cities in the area, because no one in the area is really doing anything.  I haven't heard a peep about transit for Louisville...Cbus only has their streetcar stuff moving along (like Cincy), there is not much doing in Cleveland, Indy's transit is more of an aesthetic thing than anything (it's kind of a private service for some select interests) other than that they have light-rail crawling along.

 

It's a sad state for transit in this area and really the country as a whole.

True Rando.  The population is shifting west and south due to whatever reason (Weather, new start, job, etc).  that also is a factor.  but cities in the west and south are striving for light rail.  in the northeast public transportation has already been solid for awhile.  but your right, midwest cities are struggling right now minus chicago and minneapolis and Cbus.  however, in the midwest, pittsburgh, minneapolis, chicago, st louis, and cleveland all have some form of organized public transportation besides buses right now.  effective 100% of the time, not really.  but seeing how its starting to change my old city of LA as we speak and other "newer" cities, i've been sold to the effectiveness and i think we all are.

True Rando.  The population is shifting west and south due to whatever reason (Weather, new start, job, etc).  that also is a factor.  but cities in the west and south are striving for light rail.  in the northeast public transportation has already been solid for awhile.  but your right, midwest cities are struggling right now minus chicago and minneapolis and Cbus.  however, in the midwest, pittsburgh, minneapolis, chicago, st louis, and cleveland all have some form of organized public transportation besides buses right now.  effective 100% of the time, not really.  but seeing how its starting to change my old city of LA as we speak and other "newer" cities, i've been sold to the effectiveness and i think we all are.

 

Here's what I think is interesting. Some of the cities that are aggressively building LRT systems include Denver (117 miles), Dallas (70 miles), Houston, Salt Lake City, Los Angeles and Calgary.

 

What do these cities have in common? They're oil-patch cities, more or less.

 

What do they know that we don't?

^---  This is just a guess, but....

 

      Those cities are all growing cities with a lot of political clout. They have the resources to build light rail, and we don't. It's not that they want it more than we do, but they have more money to spend.

 

      The fact that they are growing also invites a longer term view of investment in infrastructure. Would you build light rail or anything else for that matter in a shrinking city?  Ohio is projected to peak in population in 2018 and then decline, according to the U.S. Census. Compare to Texas, Florida, and California which are projected to gain 12 million each by 2030.

A.) cincinnati proper has not been shrinking anymore for almost a decade. it actually gained a small number since the 2000 census.

 

B.) our metropolitan region (which is what you would take into considerationn for light rail) is growing at a steady pace...metropolitanly we're bigger even than columbus whose cosmopolitus is twice our size. And I read a study a while back that our density in the area is perfect for light rail. people here just like to live in the burbs and work in the city for some reason...I couldn't live out there in cookie cutter house land next to the walmarts and old people stores but hey to each their own...until they want to live in their geographical center (which needless to say is pretty well set)we'll need light rail to deal with our growing eastern corridor.

 

 

 

I don't think raw population growth, or the lack of it, is a driver of rail investments. No region of the world is building more rail than Western Europe, and populations there are static to declining.

 

It really has more to do with population distribution, and here Cincinnati does quite well. If you just consider simple density within the corporate limits, we're more dense than many cities that are building rail -- Houston, Dallas, Phoenix, Salt Lake City, Charlotte, San Diego and probably several others. Account for our parklands and unbuildable hillsides, and our effective density is even higher.

 

But what really matters most is density of travel, and this is where Cincinnati really rings the bell. An overwhelming fraction of our travel is SW to NE on two roads, I-71 and I-75. They can't be widened much because sections of them are constrained in valleys. Rail can operate on 35-foot corridors, so it fits there.

 

My view is, we're ideal for it. Every person I've met from around the country who has studied Cincinnati's travel patterns and topography pretty much agrees.

 

I'm going to play devils advocate here for a second...I think the argument against light rail in Cincinnati has been that of economics.  The region (and other cash strapped regions) are hesitant to proceed on transit related issues because they view it as a "luxury" or a "risk".  This is the main problem...people think that when money is tight, spend it on a 'sure thing' not a "luxury" or "risk".  How can we overcome this mentality in Cincinnati?  I don't know, but I think that is the biggest argument against light rail in the area.  Its unfortunate that people view highways/interchanges as 'sure things' in our society and not mass transit.

Cincydrew:

 

  A) We discussed the population growth in another thread. The conclusion was that Cincinnati proper is not growing. The most recent estimate is based on a different method than what was used in the past. Using a consistent method would probably show a loss.

 

  B) All of this talk of metro populations is influenced by the boundary you choose. In Ohio, roughly 1/4 of our counties are losing population, 1/4 are gaining, and 1/2 are stable. Generally, the diagonal Cincinnati-Columbus-Cleveland I-71 corridor counties are gaining, except the 3 urban counties. The northeast and southwest quadrants of the state are losing.

 

  So, count Hamilton, Clermont, Butler, and Warren, and yes, we are growing.

 

  Add Clinton, Brown, Highland, Ross, Pike, and Adams, and we are barely gaining. If you don't think that Highland county is part of the Cincinnati metro, please note that Hillsboro people do their shopping in Cincinnati. In fact, there used to be an interurban railway between Cincinnati and Hillsboro.

 

    Again, Ohio as a whole is barely growing, and Census projections show that by 2018 we will be shrinking.

 

 

John:

 

  I agree with just about everthing you say. My point is that the driver of investments, literally, is funding. Cincinnati may be ideal for rail, and Houston may not be. But, if Houston has more money available than Cincinnati, well, then the rail investments are going to be in Houston. In this sense, the other considerations don't really matter.

 

    If I'm not mistaken, the European countries tax gasoline and use the proceeds to build rail. This encourages transit in TWO ways: it makes it more expensive to drive, and improves transit operation. Again, this doesn't really have as much to do with density as it does with funding. I can only imagine what kind of public transit we might have if we funded transit instead of motorways.

 

    How does population growth fit into this? Maybe those growing cities have a better ratio of wage earners to dependents, and thus have more money for rail. We can barely get school levies passed here, much less get rail funded.

 

    Respectfully, a rail skeptic. 

 

 

I'm going to play devils advocate here for a second...I think the argument against light rail in Cincinnati has been that of economics.  The region (and other cash strapped regions) are hesitant to proceed on transit related issues because they view it as a "luxury" or a "risk".  This is the main problem...people think that when money is tight, spend it on a 'sure thing' not a "luxury" or "risk".  How can we overcome this mentality in Cincinnati?  I don't know, but I think that is the biggest argument against light rail in the area.  Its unfortunate that people view highways/interchanges as 'sure things' in our society and not mass transit.

 

I'm not sure if this will do it, but transportation can be viewed as a necessity.  People need to get to work, to go to school, run errands, etc.  People tend to spend more money on transportation in areas where there is little to no mass transit.  In the Cincinnati region, people tend to spend 20% of their income on transportation.  In areas that have decent mass transit, people may spend closer to 14% of their incomes on transportation costs.  Transportation is not a luxury per se, it's a necessity. 

I took some more test photos in the short Hopple St. subway tunnel this past weekend.  I took completely different lighting this time, specifically a pair of 6V flashlight bulbs wedged in the springs on the top of 6V batteries.  When I do this for real to go down there with dozens, maybe up to 100 of these flashlight bulbs to light up the stations.  They'd be placed in the gaps between the parallel tunnels or in the stations behind pillars.  The big advantage of this method is that these things can run for days off those batteries meaning you can just let them keep burning the whole time you're down there.  This means people can walk around and see what the heck they're stepping on and also the camera has something to help it frame and focus.  However the plain low kelvin flashlight bulbs alone make for flat lighting so there needs to be higher color temp lighting in at least part of every shot.     

 

This is looking back toward the portal, for unknown reasons the D70 can't handle this lighting situation with a 30 second exposure and misinterprets daylight as green.  When I do this for real it'll be with color slide film which won't have this problem.   

 

Near the portals with no extra lighting:

 

This shot mixes the light of my high color temp LED headlamp with the low kelvin 6V bulbs and also in the distance there is another LED light.  The idea is to put a light in every single one of these gaps in the Hopple St. tunnel, there are about 70 of these gaps.  The blue-colored LED light is probably 100 feet from the camera.  Depth perception is totally thrown off down there. 

 

I'm thinking about taking a pair of photos at several points in the tunnels and displaying them side-by-side like this.  Except they'd actually be lined up correctly.  It's hard as hell to aim a camera accurately in complete darkness.  I'm switching to a camera with a built-in bubble level after this. 

Here are a few ideas on Uptown transit:

 

First of all, when deciding what to do in the Uptown area, our leaders need to consider the wider region and how Uptown fits into the bigger picture.

 

If a regional transit system is ever developed, there will probably be three hubs in Cincinnati.  The main hub will be in Downtown, and two secondary hubs will be in Northside and Evanston, respectively.

 

Here is the 2002 Metro Rail Plan:

 

A long term transit plan for Uptown should connect to all three hubs, providing the necessary interconnectivity to this important part of the city. Here is a general concept of what I'm talking about:

 

 

The key is for the system to flow with as few transfers as possible.  The solution may not be for a connector system...perhaps the main rail lines should be brought straight into Uptown.  Afterall, this is the second largest employment district in the city, and a geographic focal point.

 

The solution might come from the recent past.  Remember the concept of the Mt. Auburn tunnel:

 

From Cincinnati-Transit.net

 

A subway tunnel could provide quick, efficient access between Downtown and Uptown, while moving northward to the Evanston hub:

<br>

 

Then a streetcar system could connect Uptown in a loop before moving onto Ludlow and the Northside hub:

<br>

 

The two lines together:

<br>

 

Anyway...just an idea to throw out there...

 

the problem with your system is that it misses corryville, a neighborhood with so much potential for rehabs and new constructions.  no zoo connection

 

also subways are really expensive,

 

but you seem to have a good point about evanston.

In this model it would not be that hard to fix the corryville issue. You run a spur along Vine St. through Short Vine, which needs that kind of help as well. That could be an every fifth trolley kind of thing to the Zoo and back rather than to the Northside transit center.

 

Nice work. I'll meet you at the base of the hill and we can start digging on Saturday. Kidding but in a good way.  :clap:

Corryville isn't missed really. Corryville is the area bordered (from what I know) by Reading, Taft/Mcmillan, Jefferson, and MLK. The subway, from the depiction, go under Jefferson (or Vine) and MLK. That leaves the potential for 2 or more stops for UC/Corryville/Uptown.

^good point, it all depends on the number and location of stops.

Also, I should point out that the entire line would not necessarily be underground.  For instance, the line could go underground at Mulberry and emerge at Short Vine and run above ground from there.

 

If it ran on Short Vine and MLK then it would have stops in Corryville, but it would miss the zoo.

Knowlton's Corner collects buses from Montana Ave., Colerain, Hamilton, and Winton Rd.  It then primarily sends them either down I-75  or down Clifton Ave. via Ludlow.  The #16 heads downtown via Colerain Ave., the #20 heads down Central Parkway, and the #27 via Beekman St.  The total number of daily riders is something pretty impressive like 20,000. 

 

I've long thought that a light rail connection using the subway to Northside could collect not only all these Knowlton's Corner buses but also the #64 (Westwood-Northern Blvd.) via a station at Hopple St. and all of the Western Hills Viaduct buses by routing buses on the lower deck with a turnaround and transfer to the subway on the short section of Harrison Ave. next to the existing Brighton subway station.

 

A streetcar line beginning up towards The Comet could travel the Northside strip and then head up the Ludlow Hill and then down Clifton Ave, in tandem with the subway line replacing pretty much all bus traffic originating from College Hill west to Green Twp. except some express lines that would continue to use I-75. 

 

I drew this map a few months ago which shows the basic concept:

 

The red is a light rail line hugging the big railroad yard at-grade and all surface running except a short underground run of two or three blocks under Hamilton Ave.  Orange is more of a streetcar line that would use the subway and then Colerain Ave. through Camp Washington.  Cyan is the Clifton streetcar line. 

 

Also the light rail line drawn is the cheapest I could imagine, with an at-grade alignment on that derelict stretch of Harrison Ave. between Spring Grove and the Brighton subway stop.  The subway could be accessed either by building a portal somewhere on Harrison or crossing I-75 north of the Western Hills Viaduct.

 

Also a west side light rail line using the C&O ROW could replace most bus service by having a station and transit hub near the McDonald's in South Fairmount.  This and the Northside light rail line could share part of a new viaduct over I-75 and the southern portion of Camp Washington.       

 

All these buses would turn around at Knowlton's Corner or at their meeting with the line meaning not only fewer buses but fewer drivers, saving the transit agency tons in operating costs.  It also turns Camp Washington and Brighton into areas with fantastic mass transit access, with trains on 5 minute headways all day long. 

 

Queen City Metro's timetables estimate 20-25 minutes between KC and downtown, a light rail route using the subway would easily match that and with some grade separation elsewhere get things close to 13 minutes.  The estimate for the old subway was about 13 minutes between Northside and the existing Race St. station so 15 minutes to fountain square.  This line would need six trains total to operate on 5 minute headways.  This means 12 trains per hour each direction per hour with a capacity of 300-500 passengers each, so a huge capacity.         

 

 

I like your use of the subway tunnel underneath Central Parkway.  I drew up a regional plan in conjunction with my Uptown concept that includes the Central Parkway subway tunnels, and these could use light rail lines.  This is essentially a modification of the 2002 Metro Plan. 

 

The stations running from Liberty to Northside could be used as Bus Hubs, as you described.  Like the Mt. Auburn subway concept, it could emerge above ground partway through its course:

 

 

Note the Anderson Ferry Bridge and the Maglev lines.  This would be something for well into the future, like 50 to 100 years.  These lines could run through the industrial areas in the Mill Creek Valley and along River Road.  With Maglev, you could be in downtown Columbus in 40 minutes.  You could go from Cincinnati to Dayton in 24 minutes, all the way to West Chester in just 8 minutes. 

 

And to the Airport in under 4 minutes.

 

>The estimate for the old subway was about 13 minutes between Northside and the existing Race St. station so 15 minutes to fountain square.

 

I should add too that that figure included 5 stops in between Fountain Square and KC.  The subway stations would all need to be rebuilt for low platform vehicles and to make them ADA compliant.  This would mean ripping up central parkway and completely replacing both the Liberty and Brighton stations. The Brighton station would be tough because I'd bet the north wall is also a retaining wall holding back the hill.  The Race St. station would not have to have its box walls replaced because it is an island platform design.  But I think the entire roof would have to be taken off, or at least as much as would be needed for new 200 or 300ft. platforms.  The alternative is a bare-bones approach where none of the subway's stations would not be used initially and trains would simply run express until they would surface near Vine and head down a pair of downtown streets.  In that case service would be very fast since trains could operate at 45mph between the WH Viaduct and the Plum St. turn, a distance of two miles.  However rebuilding those stations when the tunnel is in service would be tough, I'd guess the work would have to mostly be done at night.

 

And of course building a ROW on the east side of I-75 between the WH Viaduct and Ludlow Ave. when it's rebuilt would make way too much sense which is why it's not going to happen.   

It all seems so easy and would make the quality of life in the city so much better. My hope is that the streetcar line will go gangbusters and in ten years people will be ready to get on board with these ideas.

After reading the latest news on mass transit it really makes me scratch my head why Cincy can’t be more progressive. I’m a huge fan of the slight improvements that they have made in the downtown area, but there is still a long road ahead. Why not instead of making the entire city Wi-Fi ready; make the city connected my mass transit? Re-open the terminal as it was intended to be used; for trains. Link Cincy - Dayton –Columus- Cleveland. They made the Miami-Erie canal without machines in 7 years. Why can’t we build a rail line that does the same thing? I’m done ranting because it never does any good…. Just a little food for thought.

BDRUF.... check out www.ohiohub.com and see what the State of Ohio is planning for passenger rail statewide.  At least part of what you want is in the planning stages.  If you like it, let your Congressman know. 

After reading the latest news on mass transit it really makes me scratch my head why Cincy cant be more progressive. Im a huge fan of the slight improvements that they have made in the downtown area, but there is still a long road ahead. Why not instead of making the entire city Wi-Fi ready; make the city connected my mass transit? Re-open the terminal as it was intended to be used; for trains. Link Cincy - Dayton Columus- Cleveland. They made the Miami-Erie canal without machines in 7 years. Why cant we build a rail line that does the same thing? Im done ranting because it never does any good. Just a little food for thought.

Wi-fi is cheaper.

^Not only is it MUCH cheaper, but I think that Lilly Pad project is funded by some group (not city money).  For transit you are limited to what your community is willing to spend on it.  We could have had light-rail well underway right now, but the voters said no...you can not blame local government for that.

Yup, blame the suburbs for shooting down light rail...

By the way, did you read that Air France is going to start selling European rail tickets part and parcel with its air tickets? In other words, someday if you want to travel from Paris to Milan -- say-- the reservations agent or the web site will give you all of your options -- both by rail and by rail. That's a breakthrough.

^Well I don't see how that would be possible in the US with so many competing airlines.  France runs both its solitary airline and its passenger rail network so the government doesn't really care which mode people take.  Also, a big advantage of rail versus air is the weird elevator music they play on Air France!

 

I drew out a comparison of the two ways to get to the airport...as this illustrates crossing at Anderson Ferry is roughly the same distance as following I-75 and I-275, however the interstate alignment has an advantage south to Florence.  Hard to believe it's four miles from the airport terminal to the Florence Mall area, however this run would be very cheap to construct with the exception of the tunnel.  There would also have to be an overpass over the access road to the interior of the airport, there is actually a pretty large tunnel under the east runway which is extra high to allow for those big airport firetrucks and at about 1,200ft. in length the longest vehicular tunnel in the region. 

 

jmecklenborg.... very interesting alternative.  Did you also know that the City of Cinciannti owns the rail line between Cincy and Nashville?  Don't know if that comes near the airport.  But I was also thinking of rail connecting with the Cincy-NKY airport, but a rail connection to Chicago-O'Hare... which is a major hub for international flights to the Pacific Rim nations.

 

John Schneider.... Hasn't Lufthansa been doing something similar for a couple of years?  Forget where I heard that, but I understand you can book your flight and air travel in one package with them and sit on a dedicated rail car to the airport where they get you right to your plane... as you've already been through security at the train station.