Speaking of the Bengals, I wonder how much police overtime was paid for crowd / traffic control during last Monday night's game? Funny how the Enquirer chose not to cover that angle, and I'll eat my hat if Mike Brown is picking up the tab for any of it.

Hey I just finished a promo video for the book:

 

<a href="http://vimeo.com/16879184">Cincinnati's Incomplete Subway: The Complete History</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user4888697">Jacob Mecklenborg</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>

Jake, the book looks awesome. I'll have to pick it up soon.

I was in the UC archives last week and was looking through the city engineer's photos from when the subway was being constructed..pretty cool stuff.

Yeah they have about 10 boxes of negatives in addition to the prints.  I only looked through about two boxes of the negatives because by chance I found what I was looking for right away.  A lot of people don't like looking at the negatives but since I printed black & white photos for years I'm used to looking at them.  Problem is they charge you, I think, $25 per scan of the negatives so you have to be able to tell if they're out of focus or not or else you're wasting money and the librarian's time.   

 

The staff up there was extremely helpful and I had a lot of really good luck with random items.  For example the article that appears in the above video at 2:08 was in a box of park board news clips that the person pulled accidentally but I looked through anyway.  I ended up using it in the prologue of the book.  That article wasn't indexed in the main library's newsdex system.  I found a lot of other great stuff that was unindexed by requesting clip files on slightly off-topic subjects.  I'd estimate that I read 500 or more newspaper articles on the subway, but there are even more out there that are not indexed. 

 

 

 

 

Who did the narration on the video?

She is a producer at my brother's company who also did the narration for Snapped, a cable series about women who kill their boyfriends/husbands. You can hear her here:

 

http://video.oxygen.com/shows/snapped/sneakpeeks_and_murder_in_minutes_1/sneakpeek-carla-hughes/v1250473

Anyone who has read the book (and enjoyed it), I would appreciate if you would post a review on Amazon.  Unfortunately a troll of some kind posted this calculated review:

 

 

Describing it as a "fresh, thought-provoking, full examination of the subway" is far from true. The author included minimal new information on the subway.  Most of what is "new" discusses Cincinnati's railroad history which was irrelevant to the story of the subway system.

 

There is tons of new information on the Rapid Transit Loop.  I know because I read every master's thesis written on it and drew information and interpretation from sources not cited by anyone who had previously written on it.  The "railroad history" is absolutely central to the story of the Rapid Transit Loop and its omission from previous

writing is a primary reason why the public doesn't understand why the thing was built. 

 

The author makes many presumptuous statements about the subway's history, and he fails to cite sources that support his information.

 

Yeah, all those actual newspaper clippings, legal documents, drawings, maps, etc. that appear in the book were all concocted in photoshop. 

 

 

Commonly known details are frequently misstated, such as referring to the former Marshall Avenue Station as Mitchell Avenue (a street located 4 miles to the north.)

 

No dude there absolutely was a station planned for Mitchell Avenue.  Look at the official map on page 79.  A Mitchell Avenue station was also mentioned in the Edwards-Baldwin Report.  Look at this chart from that report:

http://www.cincinnati-transit.net/zsubway-plans5.jpg

 

 

There was no mention of the story behind the filled in Linn Street Station. Little detail was given about the disasters that occurred during construction in Brighton.

 

The Linn Street Station was never built, which means it was never filled.  Look at the diagram on page 88.  The "disasters" in Brighton were exaggerated for political gain.  The total cost of litigation did not make or break the project (i.e. consume the $1 million plus necessary to build the Walnut Street Tunnel). 

 

 

On p.50, the author inaccurately criticizes the Arnold Report and Edwards-Baldwin Report - two important viability studies done during the subway construction:

 

No, page 50 talks about the Arnold Report.  The Edwards-Baldwin Report is discussed in the next chapter. 

 

 

"The Arnold Report saw no functional need for a subway north of Queen City Avenue...it is possible that this condition was motivated by those who sought to prevent Brighton and Camp Washington from potentially evolving into a freight yard."

- The subway surfaced above-ground at this point, continuing northward towards Cumminsville. The route did not remain underground because in 1912, the area north of Brighton was very rural. Without urban developments to yield to, it was more practical to continue the subway route on the surface than for it to remain underground.

 

No, you totally missed the point, aside from the fact that the subway *was* required to be built as far north as Dixmyth Avenue in one lease revision. 

 

 

"The Edwards-Baldwin Report ignored the Cincinnati and Westwood Railroad and made no mention of the viaduct that would have connected it with the canal subway."

- The report did not mention the Western Hills Viaduct connection because the viaduct was built in 1932. The Edwards-Baldwin Report was published in 1914.

 

Dude: a rapid transit and/or interurban viaduct across the Mill Creek Valley was proposed in the 1912 Arnold Report.  No similar viaduct was proposed in the Edwards-Baldwin Report.  That's what I was talking about. 

 

 

There are many more passages in Cincinnati's Incomplete Subway that are inaccurate or lack references to support the author's claim. In short, this is a poorly-written book, both grammatically and factually.

 

Swish. You win. 

 

 

^That sucks!  Just from reading your posts over the last few years, I can tell that none of that is true.  I plan to pick up the book after the semester wraps up.  Hopefully some other kind souls will post reviews sooner than that.

The route did not remain underground because in 1912, the area north of Brighton was very rural. Without urban developments to yield to, it was more practical to continue the subway route on the surface than for it to remain underground.

 

The report did not mention the Western Hills Viaduct connection because the viaduct was built in 1932. The Edwards-Baldwin Report was published in 1914.

 

Camp Washington was rural? Uh huh.

 

Also this guy seems to forget that the Western Hills Viaduct was not (and is not) the only viaduct to have ever crossed the Mill Creek Valley. Even in 1914 there were already two completed viaducts, Liberty street and Harrison Ave.

 

Nice job tearing him down piece by piece.

Wow.. that dude sounds like he's sour grapes about something. I skimmed through some of the book when I was at the Newport Barnes and Noble. Just from skimming, I could see that there was TONS of new info. There were maps and images that I have not previously seen. I can't wait to read through the whole thing after the quarter is done.

jMeck, post your reply from here as a comment on his review.

I'm on page 80 so far.  I think its well written and very accurate so far...also learning about the history even before the subway  plan came along is a must!

Hey...they're picking up where they left off last year with the repair work.  They have reopened the access point near Linn Street and a new access point has been opened on the north side of Liberty Street, which is actually where the Liberty Street Station is located.  They also have the street blocked off at the Brighton Station and it appears that they'll be sawing through the roof there this week.

 

They kept the Join Reconstruction Project signs up all summer so I'm guessing that this is a continuation of that work and that it is timed for the season when the water main is not operating. 

 

^ You have another one-star review on Amazon.

 

Ouch.

Awesome.  Keep them coming. 

Make that 3 one-star reviews, all written by the same you-know-who.

 

If anyone here has read my book and liked it, please write a review:

http://www.amazon.com/Cincinnatis-Incomplete-Subway-Complete-History/dp/1596298952/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1292309694&sr=1-1

 

 

 

^Really?  One person dislikes you (or the book) enough to write multiple reviews?  What a tool.

Actually there are a lot of people out there who don't like me personally and don't like the things I do.  Obviously when you call specific people out in a book they're not going to like you.   

 

Two people just wrote positive reviews, so thanks. 

I'm speaking for an hour on the subway tomorrow at 1pm in the Huenefeld Room on the 3rd Floor of the Main Library.  I'll show a ppt and have books for sale. 

Here is me on Channel 12 last Sunday talking about the book:

 

http://clipsyndicate.com/video/playlist/19846/2213979?wpid=9610

I saw the interview! That was great! I am looking forward to reading your book!

Nice job, Jake!

Awesome job on Ch. 12's Newsmakers Jake!  Host Dan Hurley seemed very impressed too -- no mean feat since he's a fellow historian.

Good to see someone be able to talk positively about the streetcar (at the end) without getting their balls busted.

I'm pretty sure Dan Hurley supports the streetcar.  It's good that he's affiliated with Channel 12 since at least someone is getting accurate information on various historical subjects. 

Holy crap. With all the bad transit news Cincinnati has gotten, this is huge!

 

"Construction on Cincinnati's Subway to Resume."

"It's been 84 years since construction of the Cincinnati Subway halted. Nearly two miles of unused tunnels have been sitting silently beneath the city streets since 1927. Despite efforts to try and revive the project - political corruption, economic climate, changing population trends and even war were one of the many historical circumstances that prevented the subway from ever seeing a train or rider. That is, until today."

 

 

I realize that the post above is a few months ago, but my browser detected malware on QCD.

^Were you using Google Chrome? For the longest time, Chrome was reporting Malware on the site, but I thought I had it fixed. Are you still getting it?

^ I also get the warning page (using Chrome).

 

I realize that the post above is a few months ago, but my browser detected malware on QCD.

 

Pay close attention to the date of the article.

 

I just noticed that a building has been torn down on Tennessee / Ross Avenue across from the Showcase Cinema site. Was that the one that was built over the subway, and was the subway disturbed?

I'm convinced trains will someday squeal and reverberate through these tunnels as they should ... Keep up the fight, Cincy!  The know-nothing forces will be defeated eventually.

I removed the web links from the April Fool's Day article.

That Ross Avenue tunnel was filled around 1970.  It went directly under the street and so no buildings were built over it.  An expansion of the Zumbiel Packaging building was built over part of the tunnel under Harris Avenue.  That tunnel was filled in 2004. 

That Ross Avenue tunnel was filled around 1970.  It went directly under the street and so no buildings were built over it.  An expansion of the Zumbiel Packaging building was built over part of the tunnel under Harris Avenue.  That tunnel was filled in 2004. 

 

With what did they fill it?

Dirt.  They could never afford to fill these things with concrete.  In fact it's estimated that it would cost $20 million to fill the downtown tunnel with dirt. 

Dirt.  They could never afford to fill these things with concrete.  In fact it's estimated that it would cost $20 million to fill the downtown tunnel with dirt. 

 

As a former Clevelander, not knowing much about your town it is astounding to me that this assest has not been used, and worse that it has been desecrated!

 

TEdolph

*bump*

 

I've merged the "Cincinnati Light Rail News" and my "Metro Cincinnati" threads into a single topic. This is the place to discuss future rail plans for Cincinnati aside from the current streetcar project. (Streetcar-related news should still be posted on the existing Cincinnati Streetcar News thread.)

Just a quick note to let everybody know that my Metro Cincinnati project is the recipient of a Student Excellence Award from DePaul University. Thanks to everybody for your feedback and support over the past year!

 

(Unfortunately, the award doesn't come with $12B in prize money to actually build the project, but I get a nice little plaque to hang on my wall.)

 

Congrats. Nice to get some recognition.

 

 

From the Eastern Corridor thread:

http://www.local12.com/news/local/story/Oasis-Rail-Line-in-the-Eastern-Corridor-is-On/0A2bS7igHkenTiVO4D38dQ.cspx#.Tsrw3jCMDQo.twitter

 

Construction of a long-awaited commuter rail line in Cincinnati could begin late next year. That word came today as transportation planners met to talk about the proposed train. It could bring new life to an under-utilized facility- the Downtown Cincinnati Riverfront Transit Center, which sits empty much of the time. It was designed more than a decade ago for rail transit which never materialized.

 

"We are on track, forgive the choice of words but we are on track for construction to happen," said Todd Portune, Hamilton County Commissioner. The project is called the Oasis Line. It's supposed to go from the Transit Center to the Boathouse to Fairfax and then longer term out to Newtown and Milford.  The tracks from the Montgomery Inn Boathouse out to the suburbs already exist. You don't have to build or buy them.  But heading from the Boathouse to the Transit Center, that's where there's an issue. A set of tracks disappears under dirt and then ends.

 

Very interesting, indeed, on the heels of Issue 48's defeat. Constructing streetcar and lightrail lines simultaneously would really turn some heads.

 

I guess if the lightrail gets up and running and is successful, it might get some catenary for replacing those diesel engines.

Definitely -- if the streetcar and one commuter rail line are under construction at the same time, I think it will start to click in some people's heads. "Hey, they could build another route out to my neighborhood, and then I could get to work or to the stadiums without having to pay for parking."  If both plans more forward, I would expect a regional light rail plan to gain widespread support.

Definitely -- if the streetcar and one commuter rail line are under construction at the same time, I think it will start to click in some people's heads. "Hey, they could build another route out to my neighborhood, and then I could get to work or to the stadiums without having to pay for parking."  If both plans more forward, I would expect a regional light rail plan to gain widespread support.

 

Just look at the comments on the article. Someone is already calling for a line to Loveland. :)

Loveland, come to Loveland, please!!!

As already mentioned by natininja, catenary-powered light rail commuter-trains (from Mariemont or beyond) entering the Riverfront Transit Center, and hooking up with streetcars headed up through DT to UC, is an exciting possibility!  Nevertheless, I have one concern about these Eastern Corridor trains that still lingers: their overall speed and number of stops.  To attract riders who would normally drive these distances, the trains are simply going to have to "kick a**" from Points A-B-C-D, etc.--are they not?  Realistically, what can we anticipate when it comes to transporting passengers from afar in and out of our downtown?

This isn't happening, people.  Unless there is some giant federal grant the county has applied for that they haven't told anybody about. 

This isn't happening, people.  Unless there is some giant federal grant the county has applied for that they haven't told anybody about. 

 

I thought the funding for this was mixed in with the entire Eastern Corridor project, which is being funded by ODOT and the Federal Highway Administration.  If it is bundled properly, I think they could get the funding without much effort.

As already mentioned by natininja, catenary-powered light rail commuter-trains (from Mariemont or beyond) entering the Riverfront Transit Center, and hooking up with streetcars headed up through DT to UC, is an exciting possibility!  Nevertheless, I have one concern about these Eastern Corridor trains that still lingers: their overall speed and number of stops.  To attract riders who would normally drive these distances, the trains are simply going to have to "kick a**" from Points A-B-C-D, etc.--are they not?  Realistically, what can we anticipate when it comes to transporting passengers from afar in and out of our downtown?

 

Honestly, nothing too impressive. I'm not bullish on this project. In fact, if it happens, I'm really happy the streetcar is also happening, because by itself the eastern corridor rail could set an underwhelming precedent for rail in Cincinnati and negatively impact public opinion. Meanwhile, the streetcar could be a frequently seen, intimate, and transformational example of fixed transit in the city.

Commuter rail of the type being proposed can't get the ROI that the streetcar Phase 1 will get, or streetcar phase 2 or 3 (assuming continued expansion in downtown/uptown).  $400 million in Milford commuter rail as proposed versus $400 in streetcar construction in the city -- no comparison. 

 

That amount in streetcar investment means over 10,000 riders per day 7 days a week in downtown, UC, and Walnut Hills.  Commuter rail maybe gets 5,000 5 days a week.  More importantly, one encourages people to ditch their car entirely versus simply driving to a station.

 

Not saying commuter rail or commuter-oriented light rail doesn't have a future in Cincinnati.  Just saying that we should be directing our scarce public dollars where they will be most transformative. 

 

Commuter rail of the type being proposed can't get the ROI that the streetcar Phase 1 will get, or streetcar phase 2 or 3 (assuming continued expansion in downtown/uptown).  $400 million in Milford commuter rail as proposed versus $400 in streetcar construction in the city -- no comparison. 

 

That amount in streetcar investment means over 10,000 riders per day 7 days a week in downtown, UC, and Walnut Hills.  Commuter rail maybe gets 5,000 5 days a week.  More importantly, one encourages people to ditch their car entirely versus simply driving to a station.

 

Not saying commuter rail or commuter-oriented light rail doesn't have a future in Cincinnati.  Just saying that we should be directing our scarce public dollars where they will be most transformative. 

 

 

I feel most on this thread agree with your point, but i'll rehash something I've already said: The Eastside is the money side.  There is a defined pecking order in society as we all know, so once they get theirs, then I believe the city will get hers b/c people will want rail just like the far Eastside.  A major obstacle with rail in Cincinnati is that the locals just don't trust that downtown will ever get a decent return on an investment due to decades of evidence, causal or otherwise.  There will also be more support from elected officials if some form of the Oasis comes to fruition.  Putting use to the Transit Center cannot be underestimated when considering the future voting climate of rail in Cincinnati.

^Yes, the east side is the money side, but the money is more toward Indian Hill / Madeira / Loveland and less toward Eastgate / Anderson Township / Clermont County.

 

Plus, aren't rich people LESS likely to take public transportation? They have more expensive cars and larger lots.

Commuter rail of the type being proposed can't get the ROI that the streetcar Phase 1 will get, or streetcar phase 2 or 3 (assuming continued expansion in downtown/uptown).  $400 million in Milford commuter rail as proposed versus $400 in streetcar construction in the city -- no comparison. 

 

That amount in streetcar investment means over 10,000 riders per day 7 days a week in downtown, UC, and Walnut Hills.  Commuter rail maybe gets 5,000 5 days a week.  More importantly, one encourages people to ditch their car entirely versus simply driving to a station.

 

Not saying commuter rail or commuter-oriented light rail doesn't have a future in Cincinnati.  Just saying that we should be directing our scarce public dollars where they will be most transformative. 

 

 

I feel most on this thread agree with your point, but i'll rehash something I've already said: The Eastside is the money side.  There is a defined pecking order in society as we all know, so once they get theirs, then I believe the city will get hers b/c people will want rail just like the far Eastside.  A major obstacle with rail in Cincinnati is that the locals just don't trust that downtown will ever get a decent return on an investment due to decades of evidence, causal or otherwise.  There will also be more support from elected officials if some form of the Oasis comes to fruition.  Putting use to the Transit Center cannot be underestimated when considering the future voting climate of rail in Cincinnati.

 

There are a handful of stops near the wealthy east side towns on this line. But growing up in Milford, I can assure you that the terminus of this line, and the intended beneficiaries of the Eastern Corridor plan in general, are pretty middle class. The only thing this entire plan is going to do is open up more of central Clermont County to suburban development.

Plus, aren't rich people LESS likely to take public transportation? They have more expensive cars and larger lots.

 

My grandfather was a wealthy man. He owned a Packard in the Great Depression. But he took the Shaker Rapid to downtown Cleveland because he was cheap. That's part of how he got rich -- he wasn't a spendthrift.

 

Granted, that was another era, but I do know of others who are wealthy people in Cleveland who take transit for the same reason. If you give them a good value, they will buy it.