Could someone post a map that shows this routing and where the tunnels would be located?

What's the ETA on the ride time then, John, if you were traveling from the banks to uptown?

 

Btw, I think this proposed plan can be an incredible way to repopulate our urban core. With the amount of hospitals there are, you would think that this could become a catalyst for those employees to ditch the long car commute in favor for a more speedy and more simplified transit option and thus move downtown.

 

Same goes for uc employees and students. It gives them new downtown living options instead of the student housing options that are already available.

 

This could be huge for this city if we get the ball rolling on this.

 

 

Fair enough. I think having a stop at the bottom of the old Price Hill Incline for real transportation (either climbing the hill or tunnel or whatever) so tourists can get off. Then there could be a sightseeing funicular (even a reproduction of the old incline with an old car on board) for tourists to ride up and down. Something like that could really help the incline district. But obviously this will never happen for many reasons.

 

That would be ideal.  I know in Pittsburgh the inclines are a big attraction.  In a perfect world we would have another streetcar on W 8th in East Price Hill that stops at the top on the incline in addition to one on Warsaw.  The one on Warsaw could merge onto Glenway then turn on Rosemont to get to W 8th.  Once it turns around at the incline, it could turn on Elberon to get back to Warsaw.

What's the ETA on the ride time then, John, if you were traveling from the banks to uptown?

 

Btw, I think this proposed plan can be an incredible way to repopulate our urban core. With the amount of hospitals there are, you would think that this could become a catalyst for those employees to ditch the long car commute in favor for a more speedy and more simplified transit option and thus move downtown.

 

Same goes for uc employees and students. It gives them new downtown living options instead of the student housing options that are already available.

 

This could be huge for this city if we get the ball rolling on this.

 

 

 

Our best guess is 11 minutes from University and Jefferson to Fountain Square, maybe more with a station serving Calhoun/McMillan. You could save some time by launching the tunnel south of Liberty and avoid that mess

Our best guess is 11 minutes from University and Jefferson to Fountain Square, maybe more with a station serving Calhoun/McMillan. You could save some time by launching the tunnel south of Liberty and avoid that mess

 

Pretty exciting to think about the currently pathetic block (2500 block, I think) of Vine between McMillan and Calhoun bordered instead by significant buildings and a subway station beneath.  Might be enough to motivate Kroger to eventually replace its new University Plaza store with a big mixed-use development.  Then the next station could be close to University Ave. 

 

Our best guess is 11 minutes from University and Jefferson to Fountain Square, maybe more with a station serving Calhoun/McMillan. You could save some time by launching the tunnel south of Liberty and avoid that mess

 

Pretty exciting to think about the currently pathetic block (2500 block, I think) of Vine between McMillan and Calhoun bordered instead by significant buildings and a subway station beneath.  Might be enough to motivate Kroger to eventually replace its new University Plaza store with a big mixed-use development.  Then the next station could be close to University Ave. 

 

 

My thinking about this is that the next phase is all about transportation, not economic development because there's not much to develop between downtown and uptown on account of topography

Our best guess is 11 minutes from University and Jefferson to Fountain Square, maybe more with a station serving Calhoun/McMillan. You could save some time by launching the tunnel south of Liberty and avoid that mess

 

Pretty exciting to think about the currently pathetic block (2500 block, I think) of Vine between McMillan and Calhoun bordered instead by significant buildings and a subway station beneath.  Might be enough to motivate Kroger to eventually replace its new University Plaza store with a big mixed-use development.  Then the next station could be close to University Ave. 

 

 

My thinking about this is that the next phase is all about transportation, not economic development because there's not much to develop between downtown and uptown on account of topography

 

Cinco Credit Union is perhaps the most egregious land hog in that area that nobody talks about.  Their building facing Auburn is among the uglier things to be seen in Cincinnati, plus their drive-thru on the south side of McMillan takes up a lot of space that could be something...anything. 

 

That said, if an underground station were built there, it would be necessary to enact some sort of zoning that keeps developers from bulldozing more historic buildings and demands higher quality for new construction than what we've been getting. 

 

 

 

Here's my blog entry about Uptown rail. It has a link to John's original Facebook post about the tunnel towards the bottom.

 

https://cincinnatiideas.com/uptown-light-rail/

 

I might revise it to have the tunnel emerge on UC's campus (along Jefferson Ave. but off-road) as Jake suggested. I'm thinking more a continuous elevated line along west side of Jefferson and north side of MLK now.

The immediate vicinity of a theoretical stop at Vine/Calhoun/McMillan has about 2.15 acres of vacant land.

 

The block where CVS and Cinco are located is about 2.2 acres. Classon Park which is useless and should be sold for development is .8 acres.

 

If you let development occur along the east side of Vine Street between McMillan to East Hollister as part of a larger effort to better utilize that park space as actual functional park and sell off underutilized portions you could have an additional 1.6 acres or so.

 

You could theoretically have nearly 7 acres of redevelopment occur without touching a single historic building. If utilized properly you could house 300-400 residential units, a mid sized hotel, and some new office space without having to build anything massively tall or complicated. If we let some height develop in the area you could push 500+ units no problem and create some nice density around that theoretical stop.

The immediate vicinity of a theoretical stop at Vine/Calhoun/McMillan has about 2.15 acres of vacant land.

 

The block where CVS and Cinco are located is about 2.2 acres. Classon Park which is useless and should be sold for development is .8 acres.

 

If you let development occur along the east side of Vine Street between McMillan to East Hollister as part of a larger effort to better utilize that park space as actual functional park and sell off underutilized portions you could have an additional 1.6 acres or so.

 

You could theoretically have nearly 7 acres of redevelopment occur without touching a single historic building. If utilized properly you could house 300-400 residential units, a mid sized hotel, and some new office space without having to build anything massively tall or complicated. If we let some height develop in the area you could push 500+ units no problem and create some nice density around that theoretical stop.

 

A stop at Vine/Calhoun/McMillan would also be the intersection of three neighborhoods- Clifton Heights, Mt Auburn and Corryville. There are also some inordinately huge parking lots up the street to the east on McMillan that could be redeveloped ( I think one is a dentist's office and the other one is for a Christ Hospital office building)

Our best guess is 11 minutes from University and Jefferson to Fountain Square, maybe more with a station serving Calhoun/McMillan. You could save some time by launching the tunnel south of Liberty and avoid that mess

Pretty exciting to think about the currently pathetic block (2500 block, I think) of Vine between McMillan and Calhoun bordered instead by significant buildings and a subway station beneath.  Might be enough to motivate Kroger to eventually replace its new University Plaza store with a big mixed-use development.  Then the next station could be close to University Ave. 

 

 

My thinking about this is that the next phase is all about transportation, not economic development because there's not much to develop between downtown and uptown on account of topography

 

Though I would really love to see Vine between OTR and Uptown actually be restored.  There are some really cool rowhouses there in terrible shape.

 

A made a simple cross-section of the 2-tunnel idea:

 

Obviously, I was startled to see that the upper tunnel would be almost perfectly level.  So Valencia St. at the base of Glencoe is at about 780ft as is Jefferson at Charleton.  So if the upper tunnel emerged in a cut parallel to Jefferson, there's actually the possibility that the tunnel could slope downward as it heads to UC.  The grade of the lower tunnel seemed to average about 6.75%.  So I'd expect that most of the tunnel would slope at 7% or slightly higher, with the grade tapered at the two portals.  If the station at Valencia were built in a cut 20 feet below street level, then the grade of the lower tunnel could be significantly reduced. 

 

If a subway station were built between McMillan and Calhoun, the track level would be at least 50 feet below McMillan and at least 70 feet below Calhoun.  What's really interesting though is that if a mezzanine level were built level with the north sidewalk of McMillan, it would also be the same level as the Jefferson sidewalk at Corry St.  So there could be a completely level passageway for 600 feet between those points, which could include a separate bikeway outside the mezzanine wall and fare control area.  So somebody on a bike on Corry St. could bike a level route to the Mad Frog intersection. 

 

One thing to think about is that there could be fare control at these uptown stations and the downtown section and Findlay Market branch could be a fare-free zone.  So you'd pay to get on near UC or the hospitals, but if you came up the hill, you'd pay while leaving those stations. 

 

 

 

Underground station is probably at least $30 million

Underground station is probably at least $30 million

 

I think we need to do this. Clifton Heights is where the population density is, and having the first available stop at University and Jefferson would be far away. And now there is huge growth of residential units in southern Corryville And big plans for northern Mt Auburn as well. This would all converge at an underground station near Vine, Taft/Calhoun and McMillan.

Question regarding the tunnel/underground station idea: If something like this were to be built, would it have to be part of a much larger line up to say Xavier/71 extending into Hamilton County (thus most likely requiring County support) or could you start by building 1 or 2 stations in the uptown area and at the Northern end of the line have a turnaround/switch track to move the streetcars over to the opposite side for the return trip? I.E. You'd have uptown service and a way to return while laying the groundwork for future lines, but not while having to try and pull the County in for funds.

jmecklenborg[/member] thanks for the cross section of the tunnel(s). That's really interesting about the topography. Glencoe Hole feels like it would be much lower than Jefferson at Charlton. I suppose that illusion is due to the steep rise immediately around Glencoe and the more gradual descent along Jefferson.

 

Engineering question: is there any cost savings to boring a level tunnel versus a tunnel with a grade? I know there are advantages to operating along a level grade due to reduced braking and energy costs. I'm just curious if it would be any easier/cheaper to build the tunnel that way.

 

I think the Glencoe station and the Taft/Vine stations both have huge potential because the immediate surroundings could support significant increased density. Getting the design/placement of those stations would be critical to the success of this extension.

 

What's really interesting though is that if a mezzanine level were built level with the north sidewalk of McMillan, it would also be the same level as the Jefferson sidewalk at Corry St.  So there could be a completely level passageway for 600 feet between those points, which could include a separate bikeway outside the mezzanine wall and fare control area.  So somebody on a bike on Corry St. could bike a level route to the Mad Frog intersection. 

As much as I like the geometric simplicity of this and I love the idea of biking from Corry to Mad Frog on a level grade, we are not going to make Uptown friendly to cyclists by flattening out all the hills. We will only make it attractive to cyclists if we slow cars down and make it feel safer for bikers and pedestrians. And it seems like most underground passageways end up feeling dark/dangerous. The passageway would have be designed extremely well to make me want to bike through it. I'd rather see "bike dollars" put towards making the street itself safer and more inviting to cyclists and pedestrians. Jefferson, Taft/Calhoun, McMillan, Clifton and MLK all need to be redesigned to slow cars down.

Question regarding the tunnel/underground station idea: If something like this were to be built, would it have to be part of a much larger line up to say Xavier/71 extending into Hamilton County (thus most likely requiring County support) or could you start by building 1 or 2 stations in the uptown area and at the Northern end of the line have a turnaround/switch track to move the streetcars over to the opposite side for the return trip? I.E. You'd have uptown service and a way to return while laying the groundwork for future lines, but not while having to try and pull the County in for funds.

 

^ I think the city and/or Metro build the line to Xavier where three lines converge serving a large area from Springdale to northern Anderrson Township and let the county take it from there. If the county doesn't want to play, then the city will be just that much more competitive

One thing to think about is that there could be fare control at these uptown stations and the downtown section and Findlay Market branch could be a fare-free zone.  So you'd pay to get on near UC or the hospitals, but if you came up the hill, you'd pay while leaving those stations.

 

Come again?

 

If I got on in the basin, I wouldn't pay until I got off at UC, or points north? Or conversely, if I got on at UC, i'd pay there, but not to get off at Fountain Square? What happens if I get on in uptown and go to XU? Does basin travel become free?

One thing to think about is that there could be fare control at these uptown stations and the downtown section and Findlay Market branch could be a fare-free zone.  So you'd pay to get on near UC or the hospitals, but if you came up the hill, you'd pay while leaving those stations.

 

Come again?

 

If I got on in the basin, I wouldn't pay until I got off at UC, or points north? Or conversely, if I got on at UC, i'd pay there, but not to get off at Fountain Square? What happens if I get on in uptown and go to XU? Does basin travel become free?

 

Just throwing ideas out there -- there is obviously the ability to get 100% payment in a subway, elevated, other otherwise physically isolated station.  Right now when an outbound bus goes from Zone 1 to Zone 2, the rear door locks and you have to go out the front door.  There you pay the difference of the Zone 2 fare (Incidentally, I've occasionally outed transit-haters who claim that they ride the bus by quizzing them on how outbound buses run into Zone 2).  It's the same idea except you'd get on for free in the fareless zone.

 

I remember that when you rode the Boston T red line from the city down to the Braintree branch, you had to deposit a second token while leaving those stations.  That's a pretty primitive way of capturing 2-zone fares as compared to using swipe cards, which they have had up there since about 2005.  I think my memory is correct...in Washington, DC they never had tokens, only cards that had a magnetic strip and turnstiles that physically stamped the time and station you both boarded and left the system at.  When my school went on a trip to the Jan 1993 Clinton inauguration, we got board during his speech and road the metro Orange line a couple stops out in to Virginia, then back to the station where we got on at.  Our test worked -- we weren't charged anything. 

 

Just throwing ideas out there -- there is obviously the ability to get 100% payment in a subway, elevated, other otherwise physically isolated station.  Right now when an outbound bus goes from Zone 1 to Zone 2, the rear door locks and you have to go out the front door.  There you pay the difference of the Zone 2 fare (Incidentally, I've occasionally outed transit-haters who claim that they ride the bus by quizzing them on how outbound buses run into Zone 2).  It's the same idea except you'd get on for free in the fareless zone.

 

Yeah, the streetcar opening has made it painfully obvious that most Cincinnatians have never taken the bus, or any form of transit in any other city for that matter. I have seen several people miss their stops because they didn't know to hit the stop button. Conversely, I have heard stories about parents egging on their children, "Push the button, little Timmy!" not realizing that they were slowing down the ride for everybody else because they were forcing the streetcar to stop at every station when nobody was getting on or off. On the media preview ride, some of the local radio guys thought that the "stop" button was like an "abort" button that you pressed in an emergency.

 

Seattle had an interesting system with their buses where you board via the back doors and exit in front. That's because they had a fare free zone downtown so you would pay if you exited outside of the free zone.

When my school went on a trip to the Jan 1993 Clinton inauguration, we got board during his speech and road the metro Orange line a couple stops out in to Virginia, then back to the station where we got on at.  Our test worked -- we weren't charged anything. 

 

 

Systems like DC Metro and BART have fixed that glitch and now charge an Excursion Fare for boarding and alighting at the same station. It's $5.20 on BART, but I'm not sure what it is for Metro.

^ I think the city and/or Metro build the line to Xavier where three lines converge serving a large area from Springdale to northern Anderrson Township and let the county take it from there. If the county doesn't want to play, then the city will be just that much more competitive

 

How about we just go ahead and call it the Deer Creek Tunnel at that point.  http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=24710.0

Diagram of Urbos 3 train sizes from CAF's website:

 

Our streetcars are 76 feet long, so the 5-section vehicle is about 115 feet and the 7-section vehicle is about 152 feet.  I looked at each of the station sites and using Google Earth could see that each station could be lengthened to 152 feet below 12th without having to close access to any parking garages.  The most expensive part of the project would be rebuilding the tracks that shift 6" inward at each station (The Banks station is the only place where the tracks do not shift, so no track modification would be necessary there).  The most work will be needed on Walnut between 4th and 5th, where the line will have to be rebuilt the entire length of the block in order to move the lane shift into the 4th St. intersection, and then on Main between 4th and 5th, where the station would need to be moved north of the Chemed Center parking garage entrance and the current station track shift removed.  So it looks like 800 feet of track reconstruction between 4th and 5th on Main and Walnut, then about 100 feet of track replacement at five other spots.     

 

We saw how quickly the system came together originally and it seems like all of this work could be performed with a 60-day closure of the system.  The closest space for a car barn able to house these bigger vehicles would be near Xavier University, so the line would have to be built that far as a first phase. 

 

Running longer cars on a light rail route to Uptown would probably need to coincide with a reconfiguration of the stops downtown. The Banks station can be easily lengthened as you mentioned. Assuming that the track is extended up Main and Walnut to reach a tunnel, the only light rail stops should be:

 

[*] The Banks

[*] Government Square Walnut/Main

[*] 12th & Walnut / 12th & Main

[*] Maybe one more stop in northern OTR before entering the tunnel

 

Which raises the question, should streetcar stops be eliminated, or should we have some stops that serve only streetcars and other stops that serve only light rail? My thoughts:

 

[*] Eliminate the 4th & Main and 6th & Main streetcar stops. All streetcar and light rail would stop a new 5th & Main station.

[*] 8th & Main and Courthouse stops would remain streetcar-only (light rail would not stop there)

[*] 12th & Main would be lenghthened and serve streetcar and light rail

[*] Build a longer station at 6th & Walnut for streetcars & light rail, and eliminate the existing "Fountain Square" stop at 5th & Walnut

[*] The Public Library and Aronoff Center stops would remain for streetcars only; light rail would stop a new station on Walnut north of Central Parkway

Which raises the question, should streetcar stops be eliminated, or should we have some stops that serve only streetcars and other stops that serve only light rail?

 

How would you do this but still minimize the occurrence of a LRV having to wait for a streetcar (potentially at every stop as the LRV goes from Central Parkway, to the Banks, to 12th)?

Which raises the question, should streetcar stops be eliminated, or should we have some stops that serve only streetcars and other stops that serve only light rail?

 

How would you do this but still minimize the occurrence of a LRV having to wait for a streetcar (potentially at every stop as the LRV goes from Central Parkway, to the Banks, to 12th)?

 

That depends on whether we plan to implement transit-only lanes and signal priority downtown. If we do, you could design the schedule to take into consideration that a light rail vehicle will get through downtown quicker and the streetcar will take longer as it has more stops. And then you stagger them so that streetcars aren't holding up LRVs.

^ Would you then propose allowing motorists to cross the tracks/transit-only lanes for street parking?

SF has a lot of transit only lanes with street parking. In this area though the cars and parking are all on one side with the transit in the middle. People are wondering about traffic flow if we make transit only lanes and it seems to work fine in SF with reducing each car direction to one lane.

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7904453,-122.4088791,3a,75y,357.87h,87.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4l2gGopAl4W8xXRJcOhN7w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

If we could do it all over again and call it a "light rail" system instead of a "streetcar" system, we would probably put the transit-only lane on the outside and put the parking on the inside. Much like how the Central Parkway bike lanes are on the outside of the parking lanes. Tearing up the tracks is not an option so we'd have to make the current layout work. Here's an example from Portland's transit mall where the is 1 parking lane on the left, 1 driving lane for cars, 1 transit-only lane, and bus and light rail stops alternating on the right lane. We could easily do that on Walnut, the only issue would be right turns from Walnut to westbound streets. I did see some examples in Salt Lake City where the transit lane was also used as a turn lane, so I don't think that would be a problem here. Or we could just implement a no right turn policy on Walnut. Really, even with the current streetcar service, the city should be doing everything in their power to divert car traffic off of Main and Walnut (add signage showing the preferred routes to get to the highway onramps using other streets).

^ Seems like a workable solution, though it will attract more political controversy than necessary as another lane for travel or parking could have been spared, and will frankly be empty almost all the time if your plan is followed and the right lane is kept as part of the street. It could be an opportunity for permanent, creative Park(ing) Day-type use (parklets, cafe seating, etc.), in places where there are no bus stops.

 

Right turns shouldn't be a problem with proper signal phasing. There's no reason cars can't turn through the tracks when transit vehicles have a horizontal-line phase.

 

Edit: A proper cycle track would be another possibility for the former parking lane, complete with dedicated signals for cyclists. Bus stops would take some figuring out, and the light rail stops may have to be narrower than they currently are. There is plenty of precedent for cycle tracks that go between a sidewalk and transit stops; just requires crosswalks through the cycle track and some creative engineering.

The main problem is that during rush hour and events, cross traffic blocks "the box", as they call it in New York.  They need a half dozen police officers at the main intersections directing traffic and ticketing people who knowingly block the intersections. 

 

I have read that in the early 1900s, there were 50+ uniformed police officers directing traffic in downtown Cincinnati every day.  People like seeing police officers out directing traffic and it puts them on the street in case there is another problem nearby.   

^ Seems like a workable solution, though it will attract more political controversy than necessary as another lane for travel or parking could have been spared, and will frankly be empty almost all the time if your plan is followed and the right lane is kept as part of the street. It could be an opportunity for permanent, creative Park(ing) Day-type use (parklets, cafe seating, etc.), in places where there are no bus stops.

 

Right turns shouldn't be a problem with proper signal phasing. There's no reason cars can't turn through the tracks when transit vehicles have a horizontal-line phase.

 

Yeah, good point about the signal phasing. Right turns across the transit lane could be allowed with a green right arrow for motorists and a stop bar for transit.

The main problem is that during rush hour and events, cross traffic blocks "the box", as they call it in New York.  They need a half dozen police officers at the main intersections directing traffic and ticketing people who knowingly block the intersections. 

 

I have read that in the early 1900s, there were 50+ uniformed police officers directing traffic in downtown Cincinnati every day.  People like seeing police officers out directing traffic and it puts them on the street in case there is another problem nearby.   

 

Cincy PD really needs to get some traffic cops out on city streets during rush hour. In the State of the City address yesterday, Cranley bragged about the fact that we've hired 150 new officers since 2013. Yet, every time I have called in a quality of life complaint, I can hear them their rolling their eyes on the other end of the phone. Officers directing traffic downtown would have a huge impact. Just them being present would chill the road rage a bit, and cause drivers to stop blocking crosswalks and the streetcar tracks.

^ Just curious, what qualifies as a quality of life complaint? I'm just asking because I literally never call the police, and almost never even think about calling them for anything.  I had a storage unit broken into at my apartment a few years back and had some inexpensive belongings taken, and I didn't even consider calling the police, because I knew 1) there was nothing they could really do, 2) it'd be a major pain in the ass to deal with them and file a complaint, and 3) I don't like dealing with cops and their very presence just makes me anxious. 

The main problem is that during rush hour and events, cross traffic blocks "the box", as they call it in New York.  They need a half dozen police officers at the main intersections directing traffic and ticketing people who knowingly block the intersections. 

 

I have read that in the early 1900s, there were 50+ uniformed police officers directing traffic in downtown Cincinnati every day.  People like seeing police officers out directing traffic and it puts them on the street in case there is another problem nearby.   

 

Cincy PD really needs to get some traffic cops out on city streets during rush hour. In the State of the City address yesterday, Cranley bragged about the fact that we've hired 150 new officers since 2013. Yet, every time I have called in a quality of life complaint, I can hear them their rolling their eyes on the other end of the phone. Officers directing traffic downtown would have a huge impact. Just them being present would chill the road rage a bit, and cause drivers to stop blocking crosswalks and the streetcar tracks.

 

There are generally 2-4 officers hanging around Government Square at evening rush hour and they do but watch the madness. And the Saturday of Oktoberfest there were 5 officers hanging out at gabbing while there was complete gridlock at 5th & Walnut. You can see three of them in this picture looking at a streetcar that hadn't moved for 3 lights.

 

When police direct traffic it has a significant effect on clearing gridlock.  One of the main reasons is that they're able to stop people from blocking intersections.  I suppose that camera enforcement could help, but COAST had them banned in the City of Cincinnati.

Cincy PD really needs to get some traffic cops out on city streets during rush hour. In the State of the City address yesterday, Cranley bragged about the fact that we've hired 150 new officers since 2013. Yet, every time I have called in a quality of life complaint, I can hear them their rolling their eyes on the other end of the phone. Officers directing traffic downtown would have a huge impact. Just them being present would chill the road rage a bit, and cause drivers to stop blocking crosswalks and the streetcar tracks.

 

^ Just curious, what qualifies as a quality of life complaint? I'm just asking because I literally never call the police, and almost never even think about calling them for anything.  I had a storage unit broken into at my apartment a few years back and had some inexpensive belongings taken, and I didn't even consider calling the police, because I knew 1) there was nothing they could really do, 2) it'd be a major pain in the a$$ to deal with them and file a complaint, and 3) I don't like dealing with cops and their very presence just makes me anxious. 

 

Here's one example. When people put out their recycling carts, scavengers will walk up and down the street searching through everyone's recycling carts to find aluminum cans. It sounds like they are tipping over the carts, searching through the contents, removing the cans, and then throwing everything back in the cart. It's extremely loud, especially the glass bottles. When people are doing this at 1 am and I can't sleep, I call District 1's non-emergency number to report it. And you can tell the police couldn't care less.

^ LOL, avoid living in LA at all costs then. There's a legit industry of can collectors out there, and I unfortunately backed up to an alley where the trashcans were kept for 2 years.  I can't even count how many times I was woken up at 5-6 am by those guys rummaging through the cans.  Never once did I even consider calling LAPD, though I did yell "shut the fuck up!" out my window on several occasions.  I can't imagine bothering the police with a complaint like that. Though I suppose that is what the non-emergency line is for...

 

Sorry to bring this off topic. Carry on.

When police direct traffic it has a significant effect on clearing gridlock.  One of the main reasons is that they're able to stop people from blocking intersections.  I suppose that camera enforcement could help, but COAST had them banned in the City of Cincinnati.

 

I can't remember if NYC uses actually cops or just meter maids to patrol their busy intersections. Their uniforms are exactly the same now, unlike about a decade ago when the meter maids all wore brown and were easily spotable (they supposedly switched them over to standard NYPD uniforms because they would routinely get ignored, harassed, and beat up). They stand on a corner with a handheld device, and every time a light turns red, they walk out into intersections, knock on windows, and print out tickets. It has to be a profitable venture because they seem to write a ticket or two every time a light turns.

Here is the section of the Cincinnati Municipal Code our Police Department is failing to enforce:

Sec. 506-54. - Stopping When Traffic Obstructed.

No driver shall enter an intersection or a marked crosswalk unless there is sufficient space on the other side of the intersection or crosswalk to accommodate the vehicle being operated without obstructing the passage of other vehicles or pedestrians, notwithstanding any traffic control signal indication to proceed.

 

(C.O. 506-54; reordained as C.M.C. 506-54, eff. Jan. 1, 1972)

https://www.municode.com/library/oh/cincinnati/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TITVTRCO_CH506OPRIWA_S506-54STWHTROB

I know that some people on this board want Main Street converted to two-way and I think they need to keep the following in mind. If we convert Main to two-way, it will prevent us from building the tunnel option John Schneider has proposed, where light rail would continue on Main and Walnut and enter a tunnel in the northern part of OTR.

 

Currently, two options are being considered for Main Street. Both options would add sidewalk bump-outs and add crosswalks to slow cars and make the street safer for pedestrians, but one option would keep the street one-way northbound while the other would make the street two-way. Here's the important part: we are going to be using federal funding to make these improvements, meaning that these changes must be "permanent". So if we convert the street to two-way and then decide, "never mind, we want to make the street one-way again so that we can add light rail," we would be in violation and would have to pay back the federal money.

The one place one-way streets make sense is in the basin. It's a grid for the most part, and the streets are all relatively narrow. A single stop light and some occasional speed limit enforcement would do wonders.

 

Personally, I think two-way streets make pedestrian crossing more difficult. It's pretty easy to 'jaywalk' or use one of the non-signaled crosswalks when you only have to look one way.

 

Another consideration is that people in Cincinnati are awful at parallel parking. With a two way street, a single bad parker could cause massive congestion.

An easy solution to the parallel parking issue is to make flat streets with good have dashed yellow lines in the middle allowing cars to go to the other side of the street with caution, its pretty much how all major streets are in Chicago outside of downtown:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9094509,-87.6774707,3a,75y,16.06h,46.75t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1szqINci7F0ltztAZK0NR-UQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DzqINci7F0ltztAZK0NR-UQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D295.67917%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656

Next Tuesday, Los Angeles County voters will vote up or down Measure M, which will increase the county's public transportation (and HOV lane) tax from 1.5% to 2.0%.  Our current sales tax in Hamilton County is 7.0%, 1.5% less than LA County after Measure M, and the Icon Tax will expire in four years, bringing ours down to 6.75%. 

 

So how much money would we be bringing in in Hamilton County if we created a new 2% public transit sales tax?  About $240 million per year.  If the current Cincinnati .3% SORTA earnings tax were eliminated, there will still be almost $200 million in new revenue for SORTA. 

 

Personally I think that next year's contemplated transit tax should be for 1/2 cent and that the Cincinnati earnings tax should remain.  The use of the county bus tax should be roughly split between increases in service to Zone 1 (city) and Zone 2 (county).  A tax for rail and other capital improvements should be a completely separate tax. 

 

 

 

Last night I walked across the Taylor-Southgate bridge and it occurred to me that it might be possible to build streetcar tracks cantilevered off either side of the bridge.  This was done with the L&N Bridge way back.  I'm not an engineer so I have no idea if it's technically possible, but if so, it would be a lot cheaper than building an all-new transit bridge and keep the streetcars from taking a transit lane.  A new pedestrian walk could be built cantilevered even further out from the tracks or even on top of them.  The pedestrian walks could then meet the US Bank/Great American plaza easily. 

Just curious if anyone is familiar with the St Louis MetroLink. It crosses state lines from Illinois to Missouri. I know we've talked about potentially extending the streetcar to KY and have mentioned the legal issues with such a system. What are the politics around this system? How is it funded?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MetroLink_(St._Louis)

 

I think this would be a good example of a light rail system to a comparable MSA (2.8 million versus 2.1 million).

All I can say is that Illinois is very very pro rail, even Republicans are in this state (I live here if you didn't already know).

 

Chicago being a major rail hub and having a functional and extensive transit system really helps transit support downstate.

 

I think Kentucky is a way more challenging politically.

This is a schedule for construction of the purple line extension under Wilshire Blvd in Los Angeles:

 

Notice that tunneling this 4~ mile stretch with a pair of tunnel boring machines is only going to take a fraction of the time of the entire rest of the project.  In Cincinnati a single tunnel boring machine could dig each of the two Mt. Auburn tubes in well under two years.  So much of the complexity in LA involves the need to keep Wilshire Blvd open during the week, so much of the work can only happen on weekends. 

Candidate Rob Richardson has announced that activating the subway tunnel will be one of his goals as mayor.  He wants to bring back metro moves, which planned to use the subway tunnel as an approach from a light rail line paralleling I-74. 

 

There have been two big subway-related developments in the last 1-2 years...

 

-The Kahn's site has been cleared, which is sufficient space for a storage yard and maintenance facility for dozens and dozens of light rail trains.  The entire region's network could be stored and serviced at this site.  It could be reached via a 500-700 foot bridge over one of two or three lightly-used industrial streets in Camp Washington (I assume that the line would cross I-75 at Marshall to an elevated station at Hopple St.). 

 

-I-75 work is done and we can now see clearly how the line will have to travel north of the tunnel.  In my opinion, it should rise on a viaduct and cross I-75 at Marshall to an elevated station at Hopple, then cross back over I-75 to touch down on the old surface subway ROW north of the new Monmouth St. overpass.  It will only be on the ground for a few hundred feet here, but a cheap station can be built in that location for Cincinnati State.  The line would then travel on a new, very high bridge over the I-75/74 interchange (or possibly lower, if it can be threaded under the highest planned highway ramp) to an elevated station on the east side of I-74 above Elsinore.  This station would serve South Cumminsville and the west side of Northside.  The line would fork immediately north of the station, with one line continuing along I-74 to stations at North Bend Rd. and Harrison/Rybolt.  Another branch would continue elevated above the CH&D to the self-storage lockers, where it would descend to ground level and then cross beneath Hamilton Ave. to a subway station under Blue Rock St. near the planned Metro transit center. 

 

 

Unless the Streetcar ridership improves and therefore improving public perception, it is going to be a hard sell. I liked most of Metro Moves however, would not have run the line along 71 as it is duplicative. I would go more central up the Montgomery Road corridor or even a little west of there.