The rail system in Cleveland is nice however, it does not serve and cannot serve the market effectively. It does a good job connecting Case and the Universities to the airport and downtown which is a key job center but the average worker is not living along the line. Their jobs tend to be n the warehouses in the burbs like Independence, etc. or they may work at Case or Hopkins  or the Clinic but they live in Strongsville or Medina so the rail is not really an option for them (whereas busses will be). The people who live along the Rapid line tend to be higher end properties and are not adequately serving those who have to rely solely on public transportation.

 

That being said, there is definitely a benefit for a limited rail line connecting a few key job centers, but bussing is probably the most efficient way to grow a public transportation service for a spread out region.

The rail system in Cleveland is nice however, it does not serve and cannot serve the market effectively. It does a good job connecting Case and the Universities to the airport and downtown which is a key job center but the average worker is not living along the line. Their jobs tend to be n the warehouses in the burbs like Independence, etc. or they may work at Case or Hopkins  or the Clinic but they live in Strongsville or Medina so the rail is not really an option for them (whereas busses will be). The people who live along the Rapid line tend to be higher end properties and are not adequately serving those who have to rely solely on public transportation.

 

That being said, there is definitely a benefit for a limited rail line connecting a few key job centers, but bussing is probably the most efficient way to grow a public transportation service for a spread out region.

 

I know a number of people in the outer burbs who park n ride at a rapid station on both sides of town.

They're doing utility work near and possibly in the tunnel at Liberty St. for the new soccer stadium.  Are they intentionally blocking the tunnel with new pipes? 

Edited April 3, 20196 yr by jmecklenborg

1 hour ago, jmecklenborg said:

They're doing utility work near and possibly in the tunnel at Liberty St. for the new soccer stadium.  Are they intentionally blocking the tunnel with new pipes? 

From the city, sounds like replacement not new infrastructure:

 

SB Central Parkway Closed at Liberty Street to Ezzard Charles Drive on Thursday

CINCINNATI – Southbound Central Parkway will be closed between Liberty Street and Ezzard Charles Drive from 9:00 a.m. until approximately 4:00 p.m. tomorrow, Thursday, April 4.

Motorists will be detoured west on Liberty, south on Linn Street, east on Ezzard Charles and back to Central Parkway.

 

Flaggers will be on site to help guide motorists.

Detour signage also will be posted.

Crews will use a crane to lift and insert large pieces of concrete pipe into the City’s defunct subway tunnel that runs along Central Parkway as part of the process to replace water main infrastructure in place since 1907. 

The work is part of utility infrastructure upgrades needed for the FC Cincinnati soccer stadium under construction in the West End.

^The pipe is from 1957.  They might be running water off the water main to the stadium, however, I am skeptical that they are in fact doing that.  What are the massive new water needs of a stadium that replaces...a stadium?

Took this photo last week showing a big pipe at the corner of Ezzard Charles and Central Parkway:

1 hour ago, mcmicken said:

Crews will use a crane to lift and insert large pieces of concrete pipe into the City’s defunct subway tunnel

 

Don’t mean to be a pessimist, but that sounds like they’re blocking it to me. 

A couple of thoughts.

First; doesn't the water works have to remove their mains if the city/county wants to use the tunnels again. Has that changed in recent years?

 

Secondly, I think the ship has probably sailed on using the tunnels for light rail anyway since the streetcar was installed with the ability to run light rail trains on its tracks. I think you're more likely to see any future light rail share at least a part of the current streetcar ROW and run along the streets like we see in Salt Lake City's downtown area.

That is definitely the pipe.  So this is a junction between the existing pipe and whatever it is that they are doing. 

Ezzard Charles was in pretty good condition in 2016 and yet it was resurfaced in 2017 as part of the the Capital Acceleration Plan (CAP). Now, the street is being torn up for this new water main, only to be resurfaced again when that work is done. In case you needed any more evidence that CAP is perhaps the most absurd and wasteful capital program in Cincinnati's history. We will be paying off the debt for thirty years for a street rehab that lasted less than two years.

1 hour ago, taestell said:

Ezzard Charles was in pretty good condition in 2016 

 

That one block was OK, but the rest all the way to I-75 was really bad.  I biked it a few times and had to weave a ton to keep out of the holes.  https://goo.gl/maps/pkY1Evq9M9m 

In case I didn't post this before...I found this ad in 2011 or 2012, so too late to make it in the book. 

 

If you think about it, we're basically looking at the Hyperloop, but for water. 

Some photos of the new FCC water main going into the subway tunnel:

 

 

The water pressure needed to flush 600 toilets simultaneously must be pretty significant.

13 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

In case I didn't post this before...I found this ad in 2011 or 2012, so too late to make it in the book. 

 

If you think about it, we're basically looking at the Hyperloop, but for water. 

 

 

Just an FYI, that's the same Price Brothers in Dayton as this:

6 minutes ago, ColDayMan said:

 

 

Just an FYI, that's the same Price Brothers in Dayton

 

 

 

There are quite a few cities that have ghost lines but Rochester and Fort Worth come to mind immediately as far as a systems not being used, like Cincinnati.

That Ft. Worth one is funny.

 

1 hour ago, Terdolph said:

That Rochester thing is just weird.

 

I don't know, it seems like a path the Cincinnati subway could have taken if it was put in operation under a hostile political climate that it was never able to get out of (sort of like if Cranley stayed mayor for 30 years *shudder*).  Had it been completed by the depression, only one interurban remained that would have been able to make any use of it (the Cincinnati & Lake Erie), which would likely have been a non-factor in the success of the subway.  It would then need to either stand on its own as a self-contained rapid transit route, or act as an express feeder for the longer-haul streetcar routes it intersected, such as 21-Westwood/Cheviot, 17-College Hill, 78-Lockland, and 4-Kennedy Heights.  Rochester was not able to make a self-contained route work long-term, it looks like it was rapid transit with interurban through-routing, but not otherwise integrated with the streetcar network.  Of course Rochester is also smaller, and the southeast leg ran through what is today pretty leafy suburbs, so it's certainly not apples to apples.  Of course it helped that they didn't have two different track gauges to worry about either.  

The installation of the new water main junction is nearing completion.  I took these photos on April 21. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I couldn't quite tell what the structure is over the actual junction. 

 

 

 

Edited April 22, 20196 yr by jmecklenborg

9 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

The installation of the new water main junction is nearing completion.  I took these photos on April 21. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I couldn't quite tell what the structure is over the actual junction. 

 

 

 

Images aren't loading for some reason.

I'm trying again:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looks like some people actually showed up for the hoax subway tour.  I drove by at 1:30 and saw this group of confused people:

 

^ You were gonna go weren't you? 

Oh no, did the UO Cincinnati meet somehow warp itself into a subway tour the next day due to the "telephone game"? That's like when we had the author of a book about the 2014 OSU National Football Championship title do a signing. People started turning up thinking Urban Meyer was going to be at my store.

Well this video is spectacular.  At least 150 people actually showed up for this:

 

Are there any groups currently working towards expansion of the street car or advocating for light rail? I'm tired of waiting to see if it is going to happen (especially with all the Republicans in charge) and would like to volunteer or do something to help. It's been long enough of a break since the streetcar fight, are we ready to work for more?

Probably not, given the underwater approval rating city-wide of the streetcar and mayor's office.  If the upcoming bus levy passes AND it is implemented well, then you will see people advocating for a streetcar extension to UC.  But it seems that all current political will is going to SORTA right now, which is a good thing and more important for the region.

 

BRT isn't as flashy as the streetcar or a subway, but it will turn some millennial heads and garner some moderate news (as the IndyGo one has).

Edited August 7, 20195 yr by 10albersa

9 hours ago, climberguy714 said:

I'm tired of waiting to see if it is going to happen (especially with all the Republicans in charge)?

 

I think you answered your own question right there.  Look at how much of an obstructionist Cranley has been, and he's supposed to be a Democrat.  

I think most of the advocates have accepted the fact that there is no possibility of expansion (or even making Phase 1 run as well as it should) until Cranley is out of office. And it's not only the streetcar, Cranley has really squashed most of the efforts to improve transit, walkability, bikeability, reform parking policy and land use policy, etc. It's real shame, but there's basically nothing that can be done until 2021. Even most of the "progressives" on council that could be working to overrule Cranley are sitting around twiddling their thumbs.

At this point the goal should be to focus on small wins. Maybe push for fare free, signal prioritization, faster towing, etc. Small things that make the system more efficient and increase public perceptions are key right now. The biggest problem has been City Hall. It's not just the Mayor but also a combination of caution and lack of expertise from Council and DOTE.

2 hours ago, JYP said:

At this point the goal should be to focus on small wins. Maybe push for fare free, signal prioritization, faster towing, etc. Small things that make the system more efficient and increase public perceptions are key right now. The biggest problem has been City Hall. It's not just the Mayor but also a combination of caution and lack of expertise from Council and DOTE.

There's so much low hanging fruit its ridiculous. For example the streetcar stops at mid block crossings on Walnut, Main and Race where it makes a lane change. At all of these there's a pedestrian walk signal that comes before the streetcar gets the signal to move. From the moment the light turns red, it's 23 seconds before the streetcar moves. These three lights, with 78 trains per day with 23 seconds of delay per cycle result in the streetcar sitting idle for 89 minutes and 42 seconds per day, every day. It would cost about zero dollars to change this. 

 

The light at Race and Green literally serves no purpose (go look, it's remarkable). If you just covered the lights with crosswalk signs (which I'm sure we have a bunch of sitting in a warehouse somewhere) you'd save about 11 minutes per day for the system. 

 

These two basically free changes alone would cut 1 minute and 16 seconds off the time it takes for a streetcar to make a loop. 

1 hour ago, thomasbw said:

The light at Race and Green literally serves no purpose (go look, it's remarkable).

 

Green Street was supposed to be returned to two-way after the streetcar opened which is why new signals were installed as part of streetcar construction. Well, at some point the city decided they didn't wanna, and between May 2018 and April 2019, the signals were removed. So yeah, that traffic light serves literally no purpose today.

There is also a stop sign at the corner of Henry and Race. Not a traffic light, a literal stop sign. It could easily be removed, turned into a "Stop (except transit)" or a "Yield" sign, but the city refuses to do anything about it. The Cincinnati Bell Connector has to be the only streetcar system in North America that has to stop at a stop sign along its route.

If Bob in Mason comes down and sees a bunch of good urbanism projects completed and functioning properly, Bob won't vote for Cranley in a statewide race lest everyone get rounded up and get forced to live in 100 story towers in OTR.

Portland has some stop signs, but as you can see they built a stop at the stop sign, so it works out pretty well. 

Kansas City started running four streetcar service in June 2019, but July 2019 was the first month of a full month of four car service. 

 

Four car service reduced peak wait times from 12 minutes to 10 minutes. 

 

In July 2018, ridership was 262,593.

In July 2019, ridership was 265,826 up 1.2%.

 

We only have one month of data, but reducing headways had virtually no effect on ridership. 

 

It's increasingly clear the reason they have high ridership is they have a fare free system. For FY20, the Cincinnati Bell Connector is only budgeted to bring in a total of $70,834 in net fare revenue. We need to make the system fare free if we want to increase ridership. No other policy or combination of policies will be as effective as eliminating fares for increasing ridership. 

Edited August 7, 20195 yr by thomasbw
typo

3 minutes ago, thomasbw said:

Kansas City started running four streetcar service in June 2019, but July 2019 was the first month of a full month of four car service. 

 

Four car service reduced peak wait times from 12 minutes to 10 minutes. 

 

In July 2018, ridership was 262,593.

In July 2019, ridership was 265,826 up 1.2%.

 

We only have one month of data, but reducing headways had virtually no affect on ridership. 

 

It's increasingly clear the reason they have high ridership is they have a fare free system. For FY20, the Cincinnati Bell Connector is only budgeted to bring in a total of $70,834 in net fare revenue. We need to make the system fare free if we want to increase ridership. No other policy or combination of policies will be as effective as eliminating fares for increasing ridership. 

 

What do you think about the possibility of making both the streetcar and the Southbank Shuttle free, perhaps getting some sort of federal grant to plug the "missing" fare revenue gap? (And maybe slightly modifying the Southbank Shuttle's stops to better connect with the streetcar.) It seems like a perfect candidate for a CMAQ grant. What better way to reduce congestion and improve air quality than connecting all of the dense urban neighborhoods in Downtown Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky with free, frequent circulators?

I think it's a good idea

 

 

Edited August 7, 20195 yr by thomasbw
Added picture, figured out you don't have to type [b] and all that anymore

That...is awesome.

I was wrong on what caused the drop in headways for the Kansas City Streetcar from July 2018 to July 2019, turns out it was improving signal timings, signal priority, and a tighter schedule that reduced peak headways from 12 to 10 minutes, not adding a 4th car, but the ridership data is still correct, only a 1.2% increase.

I wonder if their signal timing was already pretty good and some priority was in place when the line opened initially.

https://www.downtownkc.org/2019/07/03/kc-streetcar-adds-5th-vehicle-to-the-downtown-fleet/

 

Quote

 

KC Streetcar riders will notice a change in streetcar service with the addition of KC Streetcar 805 to the fleet. Weekday streetcar service will now add a fourth streetcar to the route between 10 a.m. and 2 p.m. to accommodate lunchtime crowds.

 

There will also be increased streetcar service during First Fridays and weekends, with four streetcar service on Saturdays from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. to accommodate weekend crowds.

 

The most noticeable result of adding a fourth streetcar to the service is the decrease in passenger wait times from 10-15 minutes to 7-10 minutes on average.

 

 

The average wait time would actually be half that.  So during peak service, with four streetcars, the average wait will be 3.5 minutes. 

There's so many things wrong with this proposal, but the one that stood out to me was the fact they don't know there isn't Amtrak service between Cincinnati and Cleveland- https://www.airtractransport.com/

23 minutes ago, thomasbw said:

There's so many things wrong with this proposal, but the one that stood out to me was the fact they don't know there isn't Amtrak service between Cincinnati and Cleveland- https://www.airtractransport.com/

 

If they have the investors and billions of dollars to make it happen then I hope they go for it. Would be really cool for our region. Otherwise it will never happen. 

54 minutes ago, thomasbw said:

There's so many things wrong with this proposal, but the one that stood out to me was the fact they don't know there isn't Amtrak service between Cincinnati and Cleveland- https://www.airtractransport.com/

 

Ah, ye olde "assume that we have something because everyone else has it but us" phenomenon we see in Ohio. Like people from out of town walking into the RTC and expecting to hop a train or even going down into the pedestrian subway under High Street in Clintonville.

I swear to god more people need to take a Systems Engineering course at some point in their career. Then we'd stop getting ridiculous proposals like this and would be able to focus on the simplest ways to actually meet the needs of the customer (or passengers in this case).

It’s a better idea than hyperloop

Are we talking about Issue 7 anywhere? https://moveforwardcincy.com/overview/

Issue 7 is kicking off at The Factory in Northside on Thursday, February 11 and if you care about a greener future for Cincinnati and Hamilton County, I invite you to RSVP and get involved.

Issue 7 is a necessary issue for the future of transportation in Hamilton County and I think it is well designed. The issue unites two commonly seen adversaries by building a coalition between folks who commute by personal automobile and folks who commute by public transit. When Hamilton County votes YES and passes Issue 7, people will see critical upgrades being made to major streets in our county that make our roads safer and more efficient for everyone. This is a win-win.

I think it makes sense to keep the primary discussion of Issue 7 in the Greater Cincinnati Metro (SORTA) and TANK News & Discussion topic. It was started by SORTA and is directly related.