How would you control it? The county commissioner is proposing a $10,000 impact fee for each building permit issued. Do you think this is the best way to tackle the growth of Warren County?

 

I personally think it is a good thing and according to him, 23 other states already do this.

You must be listening to WLW right now.

Yes.

 

Do you think it is a good idea? What other way can you control growth? One side of this is that people with money are still going to move here if they want. If you drive the price up, then it becomes a region of upper class income.

That would be bad for any small company wanting to start in the home building business.

One side of this is that people with money are still going to move here if they want. If you drive the price up' date=' then it becomes a region of upper class income.[/quote']

And it drives out the long-time residents once they can no longer pay their property taxes.

 

I can't honestly say I have any good ideas. If I did, I'd probably be in government.

That would be bad for any small company wanting to start in the home building business.

 

Not if they built homes in Butler or Clermont county. Anyway if ever builder had to do it, how is it any different from now. Every builder big or small would have to pay the sum. It would help with building schools and other services that all the new homes so desire. It seems like something Ohio is just finally catching on too, maybe because most counties are suffering from high growth but I think it is a good idea.

 

The $10K per building permit also helps the long time resident. By requiring the $10K a home cost that would then help build schools, roads, sewer and it then helps keep property costs down and makes older homes more attractive to buyers. The more I think about it the more I realize it is a good deal.

1. Moratorium on residential development.

2. Impact fees imposed on developers as stated above.

3. Strict guidelines enforcing smart growth, so that it is seen as an asset, not a problem.

Well this could be a bad thing, because it would spur more developers t o build now instead of waiting for the fees to be impossed.

Well this could be a bad thing' date=' because it would spur more developers t o build now instead of waiting for the fees to be impossed.[/quote']

 

 

Well you aren't too far off. The Warren County commissioner is being personally sued by developers and Warren County has seen a big jump recently in building permits because of the Hamilton Twp moratorium and talks of enacting the impact fees.

 

CiNYC mentioned smart growth and from my experience on SSP and such many consider smart growth to be conventional neighborhoods with grid streets and to be honest I just don't see that happening in suburbia anymore. People in suburbia apparently like the subdivision style neighborhoods with usually one entrance in and out that dumps on to a main thoroughfare. One could make many arguments about why cul-de-sacs are bad and I totally see their point but I will agree with the other side that says that cul-de-sacs are nice when you have kids. I guess I fall in the middle on many of those issues.

The $10K per building permit also helps the long time resident. By requiring the $10K a home cost that would then help build schools' date=' roads, sewer and it then helps keep property costs down and makes older homes more attractive to buyers. The more I think about it the more I realize it is a good deal.[/quote']

Older homes have never been attractive to buyers. Look at even the nicer old homes in Hamilton Co. (I mean in the townships and suburbs with good schools, not the city) People want new. It's the mindset that new=better that's so ingrained in people these days.

The problem is that the great looking homes of the day are so expensive that you can't afford to live there. Ok, Ok so I see the Hyde Park and Mt. Lookout type homes to be attractive. My problem is that I think 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's architecture is awful. The exception was that expensive homes never followed the same styles as the flat roof or homes dominated by a front porch (midwestern style) that the middle income homes did. Homes like what are found in Norwood just don't do it for me. Maybe it is because some of the residents don't show the same pride in their homes. After all there are homes in Hyde Park that were built during those decades that I would probably find attractive but wouldn't in a Norwood per say. It is not because of the address, it is more so because you are more likely to find more and more people that take care of their homes. From yards, to exterior painting and maintenance. I never understood why when you go down the chain of neighborhoods based on income, that the homes have to also go down in up keep - (See Price Hill). Being someone who takes a lot of pride in my stuff, I am attracted to areas were the people show the same pride, that and a 2 car garage :)

 

Couple that with the fact that I have an infatuation with gables. The more triangles on a roof line the better :)

 

Mt. Lookout

 

 

 

Hyde Park

 

Everyone needs a larger yard!  From the 9/2/04 Enquirer:

 

 

Township 'biggie-sizes' lots

Hamilton zoning change aims to slow growth by limiting homes

By Erica Solvig

Enquirer staff writer

 

HAMILTON TWP. - Trustees changed the township's zoning code Wednesday as part of efforts to ensure that homes in new subdivisions are built on larger lots in this booming area.

 

The changes, which alter items such as yard width requirements and lot size minimums, will decrease the density of single-family homes built in some residential zoning districts.

 

Have they learned nothing. This is what happens when visions of dollar signs go dancing through people's heads...

Yeah, they seem to forget that profit-seeking developers aren't suddenly going to stop building as many houses because lot sizes are bigger.

 

In fact, it may have the opposite effect. They may be able to charge more due to the "large, wooded lots".

good job hamilton!

 

70's mistake planning at its best!

^ In all honesty all the towns here are guilty of this way to curb sprawl. In all the local free papers that land on my driveway, it seems all of the Warren County towns are trying to slow down growth.

 

I haven't really heard from many of you how you would stop sprawl if you were in their position. I do see a lot of monday morning quarterbacking when it comes to this issue.

 

So have at it, how would you correct sprawl? Are you against growth, sprawl or both? When places like West Chester are looking at multifamily condo's around the Streets of West Chester, I hear - bah... so?

I would incentivize redevelopment of already built up areas and disincentivize construction on distant, undeveloped sites. If I could, I would structure zoning so that any new development fits into a mixed-use plan instead of the typical separation of uses that we generally get. I'd also like planning that doesn't rely on the fact that the local road lanes will have to eventually expand to infinity.

 

Of course, I don't know the ins and outs of politics or real estate law, so I could never possibly give you a 100% answer--just my own personal pipe dreams.

 

My only beef with the West Chester article on the condos was they're insistence that they're "urban". They're not the least bit urban. A drive through northern Springdale or southern Fairfield (which is extremely condo heavy) may have a higher density of people, but it is by no means "urban".

a copy/paste from an earlier thread bout Warren County growth.

 

1. Moratorium on residential development.

2. Impact fees imposed on developers.

3. Strict guidelines enforcing smart growth, so that it is seen as an asset, not a problem.

 

along with what grasscat said. i could go into deeper detail if you'd like, as there are many ways to curb sprawl, and many cities have already been doing it for years.

however, it is widely known that Ohio is definitely not an example of progressive planning.

They are looking at impact fees. Around $10k a lot. You just turn Warren County into a classist county though. The rich can afford to move in but the less fortunate go elsewhere (Butler). In reality I am for impact fees since I am a Warren Co homeowner, that would greatly improve my property value.

 

Moratorium, while the easiest one to say, in reality how possible is it? Can the developers sue the county? What about purchased land? If Drees bought land, do they have the right to develop it? Do you grandfather in people who have land and then stop development?

 

Smart growth? Hmm, that one is too vague. Do you mean grid planning? Hence abandon subdivisions (cul-de-sacs) and build homes in a grid layout?

 

How is Ohio different from the rest of the country? LA, Denver, St. Louis, Chicago, Atlanta, Northern Virginia...

 

They all sprawl worse than Ohio cities... I would say they all have better road systems then Cincinnati too. It is amazing how many 4 lane roads are in Virginia and Denver. Couple that with their light-rail systems.

From WLWT:

 

Huge Development Planned In Warren County

 

3,000 Homes Envisioned East Of Lebanon

 

POSTED: 6:27 pm EDT September 24, 2004

UPDATED: 6:42 pm EDT September 24, 2004

LEBANON -- Suburban growth in the Tri-state is about to explode.

 

WLWT's John London has uncovered plans for a huge new development just east of Lebanon, across I-71, in Warren County.

 

Sources say the planned community would include a minimum of 3,000 homes -- ranging from $150,000 to $1 million estates -- with its own school, fire station and retirement village.

 

3000???? That's more homes than in the city of Silverton. Monster sprawl.

It would be nice if something around here was based on Mariemont, or even Greenhills. Two of the most famous planned communities in the USA (at least to the planning and architectural world), planned in part as demonstration projects, yet we get all this generic sprawl.

 

..and I thought it was Daytons' Ernie Fraze who invented the pop-top?

Whoopty-do.

in a word....stupid

Dont get me started. Warren County is a joke. It used to be nice. No planning. No laws. It is a joke.

County commissioners want more attention paid to agricultural needs

 

Thursday, October 14, 2004

 

Warren County officials say they are fed up with the pace of residential growth in the county and are looking to hire a county zoning attorney to fight proponents of growth.

 

“Somebody needs to take on all these attorneys for the home builders association that keep bullying us and the regional planning commission,” Commissioner Mike Kilburn said.

 

Hasn't Warren County over the last few years gotten off on calling themselves the "fastest growing county in Ohio"?

Yeah, that would be one of their most used lines when trying to recruit business.

Well, if they want to promote agriculture, here's what they need:

 

1. Find farmers.

2. Once found, pay farmers

3. Since the county can't control the cost of land, they can control the taxes due for the land (designate some sort of tax break for those using land for agricultural useage.)

 

I wish them luck, but there have been fewer and fewer farmers since the begining of the 20th Century. Those wanting more farms have

NO IDEA what's involved in running a farm. Why don't they ask Farmer Brown's son why he rather be a carpenter or a Networks Annalysis instead of running in perpetual debt, watching the market prices for Wheat, Corn, Oats, and Soybeans continually drop while fertilizers and insecticide prices go up (due to enviromental concerns, but that's another story).

 

And land prices.....That's what's driving all of this abandonment of farming in Ohio. And it's something NO politician (local, state, or federal) can control. Land is no long finite, so now it has worth. And when you're 70 years old, tired of being in debt, and have no one to cede the farm to. Guess what happens next.

 

Try to come up with a solution to that!

We already have a solution: hydroponics!

 

In fact, pot growers have been using it for years. Hydroponics!

Still doesn't resolve the $$$/tax issue.

:clap: :clap: It's great to know that someone actually sees that uncontrolled sprawl isn't a good thing!!

^ It's pretty much too late, though.

Speak for yourself Colerain Boy :)

Here's an article from the 10/29/04 Enquirer.  It focuses on residential development but fails to mention some of the massive retail proposals/projects:

 

 

Warren development faces hurdle

County officials ponder 'congestion' amendment

By Erica Solvig

Enquirer staff writer

 

LEBANON - The Warren County Regional Planning Commission is waiting for a lawyer's opinion before tackling a controversial change that could ultimately help the county limit new development.

 

At stake is a proposed amendment that would let county planners consider "congestion of population" when deciding whether new subdivisions should be approved. It's the latest round in the ongoing battle to manage the explosive residential development that's made Warren County the region's fastest-growing county.

 

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/10/29/loc_warcohomes29.html

Just slap a $10k to $20K fee on each "NEW" home in Warren county. Put it into an account for future schools, roads.

 

How are they going to decide which builder gets approved and which one fails? Sounds like a setup for a "Good Ole Boy" way of doing business if I ever saw one. There will be some under the table massaging if you know what I mean.

 

Your right Kevin, which they talk about this, South Lebanon has proposed a mega mall, Mason approved its "Lifestule Center" and Monroe is building a $250 Casino.

You know do they want to haev growth or lose people..I think I would rather have growth.

They're not in danger of losing anybody. Why would you frame this story in that kind of either/or scenario?

I know they are not going to lose anyone, but if taxes keep going up and they imposse a fee of 10-20k per lot.Then you will see people looking at other counties to live instead of Warren.

 

Traffic was just awful Thursday. I left mason at 7.:28 am and didn't get to Clifton until 8:35 am.

That $10-20K was just a number Monte threw out there as an idea.

 

The fee would be for new construction, not existing houses.

More relevant news...from the 11/6/04 Enquirer:

 

 

Growth frustrates Warren Co. officials

By Erica Solvig

Enquirer staff writer

 

LEBANON - Warren County commissioners, in yet another move to harness residential growth, are capping the number of sewer system connections to the largest subdivision ever proposed in Morrow.

 

The local system can accommodate only another 500 to 550 single-family homes. But that's not enough for the more than 900 new homes that Morrow Village Council has said could be built at a former ski resort.

 

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/11/06/loc_morrowdevelopment06.html

There was a ski resort in Morrow?

I know ..I never knew that. I would like to see the hill they had used.

^ Maybe that's the reason they went out of business! :D

That $10-20K was just a number Monte threw out there as an idea.

 

The fee would be for new construction' date=' not existing houses.[/quote']

 

It isn't actually a number I threw out. It was mentioned in a previous article.

 

Unusual, it isn't Warren Counties problem if people move to another county instead. Warren County has location and they know that. They would not impose a 10K-20K fee on existing homes, it would be on new homes so you won't se people moving out, it would slow growth which is the plan. Warren County hopes to push people to other counties or to stay in their own. New school costs and water and roads costs far exceed any benefit that growth gives the region.

 

You seem to be pro sprawl. I sense that from your comments you throw out here and there.

I'm all about getting what you want and where you want it, not what a commissioner wants. I'm all about the white picket fence..;)

 

If anything though if there is problems with not enough money to build schools. Just raise real estate taxes.Everyone is in it together so raise fees for everyone not just the new people.

Why should residents that currently reside here have to pay for new residents? You end up running our the lower middle class that can't afford the taxes and it becomes an elitest community even more so than it is now.

 

Hence why they are started to seriously slow growth.

It happens in the city of Cincinnati all the time. No different than the suburbs..lol People pay taxes for schools even if they dont' have kids.

Yes I am well aware of that but maintaining schools is different than building brand new schools ever 4 years. A city can't sustain that and still be affordable to all incomes. Not to mention all the strip malls, residential that leads to road expansions, water connections, etc...

 

Why shouldn't the people who moved into a sprawly McMansion neighborhood be responsible for paying for an old farm road (Butler-Warren) to be converted into a standard roadway? 10K to those people financed over 30 years is only a few dollars extra a month. It hits up the new residents instead of penalizing the old ones.

That $10-20K was just a number Monte threw out there as an idea.

 

It isn't actually a number I threw out. It was mentioned in a previous article.

I must have missed that.