Background from postings in the Random Cincinnati Developments Thread:

 

8/30/05

Only 1 developer submits home plan

Cincinnati's choice of a developer to build 32 homes on what was to be the Colerain Connector highway in Northside was easy - only one developer submitted a proposal for the project. North Point Land Co. will have one year to come up with a development plan to build the homes off Virginia and Kirby avenues, on 10 acres that were deeded back to the city from the Ohio Department of Transportation this year. The state scuttled its 46-year-old plans for the highway after decades of opposition from Northside residents.

 

9/28/05

The city council voted unanimously to allow NorthPointe Land Company to develop the housing units on land freed up by ODOT's dropping of the Colerain Connector project.  They now have exclusive development rights for the next 12 months.

 

And this thread deals with the death of the Colerain Connector and the planned re-working of the Colerain/West Fork/Virginia intersection:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=2897.0

 

 

Here's where we are now.  On June 2, the city planning commission will consider a zone change study for sectors D and E (see map).  They're considering changing it all to SF-2, to match the surrounding zoning.  This will allow the developer to determine lot size and layout.

 

According to the Cincinnati Municipal Code, SF-2 zoning "allows high-density, small lot, single-family developments. The minimum lot size is 2,000 square feet."

 

This seems to be moving along slowly.  The developer has already eaten up half of the year-long preferred developer agreement and doesn't even have a site plan yet.  By the time this zoning study is done...well, who knows when that will be?

 

BTW...NorthPointe is the same company who did the Gateway condos and St. Xavier Park.

 

 

Wow - I didn't realize this project was that far north...for some reason I'd been picturing it in my head as around Virginia between Colerain and Chase...I guess that's already plenty built out, so I'm not sure what the hell I was thinking...

 

Thanks for the great summary - definitely something to keep an eye on.  Hopefully this will go in right and anchor that side of Northside...

Thirty-two new single-family homes in Northside are closer to reality.

 

At its February 28 meeting, City Council passed unanimously a zoning change for property along Kirby Rd (see map).

 

Sector D (south of Robley) Ave would change from RM-2 to SF-2, and Sector E would change from SF-6 to SF-2.

 

The new SF-2 zoning would allow for single-family homes of medium-to-high density on lots, at the minimum, of 2,000 square feet (think townhomes).

 

NorthPointe Land Company is still the preferred developer for the market-rate homes.  (I'm unaware of any extension granted in their preferred developer agreement, but there must have been one because it should have expired last September.)

 

 

Hey...new SF homes in the inner-city sounds good to me!  Hopefully they don't turn out like crap...

This will make alot of peoples day!!!

 

Major Makeover Planned For Northside Corridor

Last Update: 6:52 pm 

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=89a77e6f-6dea-44f9-abbb-735d2f8d1acf

Web produced by: Neil Relyea

 

 

Northside is about to get a major makeover on land once slated for the Colerain Connector highway spur.

 

Phase I involves turning the intersection of Colerain and Virginia avenues with West Fort Road into a "Gateway to Northside."

 

Members of Cincinnati city council's economic development committee also heard plans for housing along Kirby Road at Ashtree Drive, plus a skate park and commercial developments.

 

"It's like finally seeing something come to fruition that the neighborhood has wanted for some time, and that College Hill and Mount Airy have wanted as well," said Stephanie Sunderland, of the Northside Community Council, "because they use this corridor to get on I-74 just as much as we do."

 

The corridor from I-74 and Colerain Avenue was once destined to be the Colerain Connector, but the neighborhood fought it and won a 30-year development battle.

 

 

 

 

37-plus apartments proposed at Northside School

 

As most of you know, Northside's Kirby Road School was bought by the same company that did the American Can Lofts (Bloomfield/Schon).

 

They are proposing at least 37 apartments. They need a rezoning in order to do it, and they are also hoping to get the school classified as a historic structure so they can get historic tax credits.

 

They purchased the school for $230,000 from CPS.

This would be wonderful. A friend of mine lives in the American Can building and he's been highly satisfied with the way they treat their renters, and it was a quality conversion.

Cool-  lots of great things happening in Northside.

 

70 apartments at American Can last year

upwards of 40 homes at Virginia Place once it's completed (6 done, 4 under construction now),

apparently possibly 77 at the Kirby School

and around 80 is a rumor for the corner of Blue Rock and Hamilton at the old Myron Johnson site possibly to be developed by Milhaus out of Indianapolis.

 

Now I just wish there was more renovations of existing homes on streets like Hanfield, Williamson, Langland and Florida.  When you start to see money invested in the side streets you know you've made great progress.

Well there's still that heck hole at 4528 Hamilton (just north of Glen Parker.

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=39.170891,-84.54412&spn=0.001644,0.002411&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=39.170891,-84.54412&panoid=3NuouMEzucalubV7C0-Pjw&cbp=12,77.39,,0,0.8

It appears the new Gantry development in Northside broke ground today.

 

https://twitter.com/AlexJackiw/status/481454737737252867

 

It's true! I was there.

Neighborhood activist & booster Tim Jeckering spoke. He is a past community council president & involved with the business assoc & runs the biennial porch tour and and and

He is also an architect & challenged the developers to make a quality, rock solid place that will look good well into the future.

He was also the only speaker I could hear.

19, 5 & 12 were there.

to see just how exciting it was, WLWT has video here. They didn't leave the part in where Stiles called the neighborhood Norwood.

http://www.wlwt.com/news/former-northside-lumber-yard-to-become-mixeduse-housing/26636226#!3ctD3

I still can't get over how aggressively uggo that rendering is. I'm counting at least four, maybe five different finishes on the outside.  Why is there such a mania for this in new architecture? It just looks cheap. :(

 

That being said, I'm excited that this lot is getting infill that comes up to the sidewalk. Wonder when they'll actually start doing work?

Construction shot from this afternoon. 

 

June 1, 2015:

 

I pass this just about every day -  it feels pretty massive up close. i'm excited to see it finished this fall.  Even if I don't like the finishing, It's going to be a nice bit of energy for the neighborhood's commercial district.

Here's a nice overview shot.

 

 

And a good read about investing in Cincy from an outside developer.

http://granolashotgun.com/2015/06/21/some-kindly-advice-from-an-old-white-guy/

Northside Grocery Store coming: http://www.soapboxmedia.com/devnews/100615-apple-street-market-northside-update.aspx

 

 

$15M mixed-use development opens in Northside: PHOTOS

Apr 8, 2016, 1:31pm EDT Updated Apr 8, 2016, 2:25pm EDT

Erin Caproni

Digital Producer

Cincinnati Business Courier

 

Northside’s first large-scale new construction in its business district in more than 60 years made its debut today.

 

The Gantry, a $15 million mixed-use development on Hamilton Avenue that includes three multi-story buildings containing 131 market-rate apartments and 8,000 square feet of retail space, celebrated its grand opening on Friday morning with a ribbon cutting ceremony attended by city leaders and developers.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/04/08/15m-mixed-use-development-opens-in-northside.html

Absolutely hideous.  Stick to a single darn style, I'd be happy with a staggered window building over this junk :/

 

At the same time, I was actually curious to see how this looked when finished, happy to see a corner filled in with something at least...

Yeah it's yet another pathetic, cheap, clumsy apartment building in a prominent location in a city neighborhood that is a giveaway to a developer.  There is also another building on the north side of Knowlton that is part of this complex that has been open for several months.  It's a similar piece of junk. 

It's not that bad. I think it's kind of neat looking. And our city neighborhoods need a ton of stuff like this to add raw numbers of people and the density that can sustain businesses. Also, if we hold out for high end buildings only upper class people will be able to afford living there.

You don't have to be high end to look consistent at least... these CR things are such messes.

Cheap buildings on prominent street corners lower the value of the entire area.  It's happening every single time near UC and now it has spread to Northside. 

I mean, compared to what though? The old lumber yard that was there before the Gantry? The Wendy's and the Boston Market that was there before U Square?

 

Just trying to provide some perspective here. I think the only design that everyone's been 100% completely happy with are the condos Greiwe is building at 8th and Main, and those are going to set some price per square foot high water marks for the region. If we want to add population in large numbers in the city there's going to be some EIFS buildings built, and they're fully capable of contributing to the urbanism/streetwalls/walkabilty of the neighborhoods they're in too.

I think the only design that everyone's been 100% completely happy with are the condos Greiwe is building at 8th and Main...

 

Nope, hate it.  Same old trendy crap design, just different than the cheap CR crap. 

I mean, compared to what though? The old lumber yard that was there before the Gantry? The Wendy's and the Boston Market that was there before U Square?

 

Just trying to provide some perspective here. I think the only design that everyone's been 100% completely happy with are the condos Greiwe is building at 8th and Main, and those are going to set some price per square foot high water marks for the region. If we want to add population in large numbers in the city there's going to be some EIFS buildings built, and they're fully capable of contributing to the urbanism/streetwalls/walkabilty of the neighborhoods they're in too.

 

U Square was a total giveaway to the Bortz Bros.  They swooped in when the city and university got desperate for something to happen in that area.  Same thing with The Banks.  We need to quit acting desperate as a city.  These apartments will be around for 50-100 years.  We can wait 10 more if that's what it takes to get a developer who will build according to higher standards.  Right now they're doing whatever they want. 

 

Jeesh, tough crowd! :)

 

Just some thoughts from my trip out West last year: obviously the stuff going up in Portland's Pearl District is of higher quality than anything going up in Cincinnati right now. I don't know what has to happen before we start getting that kind of construction. Build a light rail system and wait twenty years I guess. When I was in Seattle we stayed in an Airb2b in the Atlantic neighborhood, not Seattle's most trendy neighborhood by any means, in an EIFS style building. It met the street well and was good from an urbanism/walkabilty standpoint. What was remarkable to me was how unremarkable it was. 100 units tucked away in a side street off a main arterial road. Whereas in Cincinnati construction of that kind of building would be a big deal and make the news, this building was kind of an afterthought. I guess that's what happens when Seattle is experiencing one of the biggest economic booms in the nation.

 

I don't know what the answer is for Cincinnati. Put historic tax credits on steroids? Or just admit there is a long way to go between here and there, and accept these kinds of buildings if they meet the street well and add to the density of the neighborhood?

Caveat: I do think U Square is pretty bad with the cinder block and the towering garages.

I know we've been over this before, but it's not all "developers are teh evulz."  The economic forces in Cincinnati just aren't conducive to the same type of development as you see in Chicago, New York, San Francisco, or even booming sunbelt cities.  There's so much existing urban "product" here (if not OTR or downtown-level density) that is so cheap to buy or rent that new construction simply can't compete except in extraordinary circumstance.  You can buy an existing house here for a fraction of what it would cost to actually build that same house, let alone a condo or apartment. 

 

That means what new construction does happen has to be as cheap as possible, otherwise nobody will buy it.  Yes that sucks, but you can't say that developers are being greedy and building cheap crap and at the same time say the new apartments are overpriced.  This is a simple supply and demand reality that can't be avoided by moratoriums or regulations.  Design review might help, but that's super subjective and fraught with its own problems.  But if a design review board says something as simple as "this shall be made of brick rather than styrofoam" the developer comes back with "then we have no profit and won't build it."  Is that a win? 

 

In stronger markets where housing prices are overall higher, then new construction costs are more closely aligned with rents and purchase prices.  Thus they don't have to cut so many corners to make the economics work.  They also don't need to build as many megastructures to amortize all the costs and squeeze as much out of economies of scale as possible.  I tend to think that onerous off-street parking requirements are a bigger factor in ballooning the size and scale of projects.  Anyway, labor and material prices are much more consistent across the country than housing prices, so being in a cheap market here actually puts us at a disadvantage compared to the rest of the country.  Think about it like this, with low cost-of-living and lower incomes, it sounds like a good deal compared to high cost-of-living and higher incomes.  That would seem to wash things out in the end, but it doesn't because while housing and taxes and energy costs might be lower here, you still pay the same for iPhones, TVs, BMWs, and yes, new construction, as someone in California. 

 

I'm not saying this is a good thing, it's just the reality of the situation.  I'm also the first to say that settling for something bad versus nothing isn't a fair trade either.  However, there needs to be some sort of consensus on what exactly to do about it, if you can do anything.  The economics can't really be changed without very extensive market intervention that has all sorts of unintended consequences.  Of course, a first step would be to remove the distortions of all the pro-suburban policies that have been in place for some 80 years now.  That's no small task, and it's much bigger than a merely local concern, though there are still local factors involved. 

 

I'll say this though.  It's less expensive to design and construct a building that isn't trying to look like a bunch of separate buildings all smashed together.  Unfortunately, nobody seems capable of doing that without it looking like a suburban office block and raising the ire of neighborhood groups and review boards that push for the Potemkin Village look for lack of any other ideas.  It goes back to things like parking requirements and scale economies and height limitations that all conspire to squash buildings down and expand them out, so it's more difficult to proportion them properly without making them look suburban or look like multiple buildings instead. 

In stronger markets where housing prices are overall higher, then new construction costs are more closely aligned with rents and purchase prices.  Thus they don't have to cut so many corners to make the economics work.  They also don't need to build as many megastructures to amortize all the costs and squeeze as much out of economies of scale as possible.  I tend to think that onerous off-street parking requirements are a bigger factor in ballooning the size and scale of projects.  Anyway, labor and material prices are much more consistent across the country than housing prices, so being in a cheap market here actually puts us at a disadvantage compared to the rest of the country.  Think about it like this, with low cost-of-living and lower incomes, it sounds like a good deal compared to high cost-of-living and higher incomes.  That would seem to wash things out in the end, but it doesn't because while housing and taxes and energy costs might be lower here, you still pay the same for iPhones, TVs, BMWs, and yes, new construction, as someone in California. 

 

Its even more a wash if you live in an expensive market with good transit.  You either don't need a car or have one and barely use it (like I do).  Your car expenses are SIGNIFICANTLY less in this case - I actually think I have more money left over esp when gas prices were super high than I would had I stayed in Cincinnati and had more reason to fix/repair/gas up/buy a new car than I do now.  Add that to probably about 10,000 less per year with my same job and I'm sure I would be worse off had I stayed.  Chicago though is still relatively cheap by national standards so not sure the same math would have worked in NYC or especially San Francisco.

 

 

I wish parking reform would happen in Cincinnati it would really help the development potential of that city, some of it needs to be paired with better transit, but even then the parking requirements are through the roof for what's needed - in most areas city streets could handle overflow parking just fine its only in areas like Mt Adams where that is a problem. (It would also teach people how to better parallel park as well).

Though I have one additional question - Columbus Ohio has way better infill than Cincinnati does, are housing prices that much higher there?

Yes. In Columbus most of the cheap stuff is in unwalkable areas from the '50s-'90s. Walkability is at a serious premium here and tenants are willing to pay.

Yes. In Columbus most of the cheap stuff is in unwalkable areas from the '50s-'90s. Walkability is at a serious premium here and tenants are willing to pay.

 

I'd say that's also the dynamic in the sunbelt too.  Even ignoring walkability, if you want a house or apartment with some character you have maybe a small bungalow belt around downtown that's very likely run down and surrounded by highways, and then you're suddenly in ranch-ville.  If Cincinnati were Nashville, Charlotte, or Austin, you'd have downtown probably not all that much different than it is now, but OTR would be like Clifton or Corryville.  Once on top of the hills all bets would be off.  Price Hill, Clifton, and Walnut Hills would be Finneytown and Anderson, spreading for miles in all directions.   

 

I'll say this though.  It's less expensive to design and construct a building that isn't trying to look like a bunch of separate buildings all smashed together.  Unfortunately, nobody seems capable of doing that without it looking like a suburban office block and raising the ire of neighborhood groups and review boards that push for the Potemkin Village look for lack of any other ideas.  It goes back to things like parking requirements and scale economies and height limitations that all conspire to squash buildings down and expand them out, so it's more difficult to proportion them properly without making them look suburban or look like multiple buildings instead.

 

This is a good point about granularity.  I found this really good article about it on Strong Towns:

 

http://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2015/12/7/best-of-2015-granularity

 

So if we did have the pro-urban policies in place (good transit instead of parking minimums for each new development,) perhaps smaller footprints could be maintained and more could be invested into each building by smaller players as happened historically. 

Here is an old article, but I wanted to mention that this project is well underway.

https://www.cpexecutive.com/post/seniors-housing-project-awaits-green-light/

Get a look at some of Cincinnati’s most unique apartments

 

 

A former school in Northside is now home to some of the most unique apartments in Greater Cincinnati.

 

The former Kirby Road School, located at 1710 Bruce Ave., has been transformed into 40 apartments by real estate company Bloomfield/Schon + Partners. The $6 million redevelopment is wrapping up, but apartments are already leasing.

 

More below:

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2016/06/02/get-a-look-at-some-of-cincinnati-s-most-unique.html

Popular Northside restaurant to move

 

Melt Eclectic Cafe, owned by Wellmann's Brands, will relocate to a 3,000-square-foot space in the Gantry across the street in early 2017, according to a press release from Wellmann's Brands.

 

The expansion will accommodate more space, an expanded menu, more jobs, and, perhaps most importantly to Wellmann's Brands' co-owner Molly Wellmann, a full-service bar with craft cocktails.

First of the new Great Traditions houses on Fergus is up but a month or two from being ready. 

^ is that the "city series" development? I drive by there on Friday and it looked like 2 of the 5 homes' 'shells' are built. Also, there's a fairly large 3-4 story building going up by the Spring Grove side of the American Can site. Any idea what that is? I'm assuming more housing, but I don't remember hearing about this.

^ is that the "city series" development? I drive by there on Friday and it looked like 2 of the 5 homes' 'shells' are built. Also, there's a fairly large 3-4 story building going up by the Spring Grove side of the American Can site. Any idea what that is? I'm assuming more housing, but I don't remember hearing about this.

 

It was dark and I was on Chase so you're right, there might have been two up.  And I've also seen the new building near American Can which I haven't heard anything about. 

 

I posted about it higher up in the thread.

^ I drove by over the weekend and was wondering what it was. Could it be an additional phase of the Gantry or is it a separate thing?

Here is an old article, but I wanted to mention that this project is well underway.

https://www.cpexecutive.com/post/seniors-housing-project-awaits-green-light/

 

It's this. 4 story, 56 unit affordable senior housing development. Looks to be pretty ugly, though I guess it's good to see more residential on the site. I was kind of surprised to see how run down much of Northside looked east of Hamilton Ave when I was driving around the other day. I'm usually in the neighborhood at night, which hides much of the blight. It still definitely has a ways to go.

People forget that Northside flooded south of about Knowlton St. back in 1937, and likely before that.  The former rail ROW probably marks the exact point where it happened (even though those tracks were laid back around 1850, they probably knew by then exactly how far the Ohio River backed up).  That's why the quality of housing is so poor between that line and Spring Grove.  That has been the last area to be rehabbed, but it is definitely happening now on some of the obscure streets. 

 

Northside really has a lot of room for more residents if some of the industrial and commercial properties between Spring Grove and the Dooley Bypass and then along Crawford next to the cemetery are redeveloped into multi-story apartment blocks.  There is room for many "Gantry"-type developments there, as well as the nebulous undeveloped and unnamed area between Hoffner Park and Chase. 

 

 

 

Case in point...$360k rowhouse renovations on Cooper St.  Whoever heard of Cooper St.?

https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1514669/1610-Cooper-St-Northside-OH-45223

 

$350k renovation in the 1400 block of Chase...so almost all the way to Dane.  I talked to the guy renovating this one and he moved down here temporarily from Chicago to do it, so that's why stylistically it's a bit different than anything else around. 

https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1512614/1408-Chase-Ave-Northside-OH-45223

 

Small house with a hint of a New Orleans look at one of the best spots in the neighborhood...this listing is worth looking at just to see the car barely fitting in the garage:

https://www.sibcycline.com/Listing/CIN/1507344/1613-Pullan-Ave-Northside-OH-45223

 

Good catch, the flood boundary of the 100-year event (protected in this case by the Mill Creek dam and pumping station at the Ohio River) follows the railroad right-of-way and the 493' contour pretty much exactly.  In the 1850s when much of the valley was still rural or even wild, there was probably still some pretty clear evidence of the extent of flood waters, even if just a slight change in the tree canopy and other vegetation.  There could even have been Indian markers of some sort.  Hillsides along the Pacific coast of Japan have stone markers hundreds of years old showing how high tsunami waters reached for instance. 

Frame houses in the flooded areas will be "bent" and less desirable even if they don't have to worry about flooding today.

Good catch, the flood boundary of the 100-year event (protected in this case by the Mill Creek dam and pumping station at the Ohio River) follows the railroad right-of-way and the 493' contour pretty much exactly.  In the 1850s when much of the valley was still rural or even wild, there was probably still some pretty clear evidence of the extent of flood waters, even if just a slight change in the tree canopy and other vegetation.  There could even have been Indian markers of some sort.  Hillsides along the Pacific coast of Japan have stone markers hundreds of years old showing how high tsunami waters reached for instance. 

 

I don't know how they did it.  The old railroad surveys even for railroads that weren't even built were pretty remarkable achievements.  I imagine that pretty much only the smartest guys around were hired to perform these studies, since ungodly sums of money were at stake.  When I was doing research on the subway, I read a pretty remarkable account of Jacob Schmidlapp extolling his surveyor and putting down the claims of someone else's.  This was in reference to what ended up becoming the never-built eastern half of the Rapid Transit Loop, which Schmidlapp offered to fund at a personal loss as an effort to reduce population density in the basin about ten years prior to the subway vote.  People tend to think that the subway idea sprung up out of nowhere around 1915 but the idea for parts of the loop and even the entire loop had existed for decades. 

 

Spring Grove Cemetery is really one of the frustrations of Cincinnati's layout.  It's a remarkable cemetery, of course, but it prevented a continuous neighborhood from developing between Hamilton Ave. and Winton Rd.  The space occupied by a few thousand dead people could have instead been 10,000+ living people.  The existing subway line in the canal could have been extended under Hamilton Ave., then across Chase Ave. to Spring Grove Village, then northeast to Elmwood Place.  It would have been big-time. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I took these photos in 2013 so The Gantry isn't there but otherwise it's the same and illustrates how much potential there is for new construction near Spring Grove Ave.