4 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

^Nobody seems to know if Glen Parker and Glen Armond are named after two guys named Glen or if they're "glens".  Which I think is like a meadow in a valley, but I'm not sure.  

 

I would guess the later, since Glen Parker travels through or adjacent to Parker Woods.

I rent a band practice space in the former About Space in Northside, which was sold earlier this year to a national company called Store Space. We were just informed that we have to be out at the end of January. My guess is that they are going to rip out all of the band practice spaces and artist studios in the building and replace them with standard self-storage units. I'm not 100% sure that's the case, but I don't see anything on Store Space's website that indicates that they offer any band/artists spaces at any of their facilities. If so, this will be a pretty big loss for Cincinnati's music scene, especially considering how many artists and musicians live in Northside and use that facility.

On 12/28/2019 at 5:11 PM, taestell said:

I rent a band practice space in the former About Space in Northside, which was sold earlier this year to a national company called Store Space. We were just informed that we have to be out at the end of January. My guess is that they are going to rip out all of the band practice spaces and artist studios in the building and replace them with standard self-storage units. I'm not 100% sure that's the case, but I don't see anything on Store Space's website that indicates that they offer any band/artists spaces at any of their facilities. If so, this will be a pretty big loss for Cincinnati's music scene, especially considering how many artists and musicians live in Northside and use that facility.

 

 

I have talked to 2-3 people about this.  People are generally pretty ticked, although people were ticked to begin with due to specific problems with some of the spaces.  The worse anecdote I heard was that the new owners started charging bands for heat but then the heat either didn't work or in one case is so intense that the band has to practice with their shirts off.  Also, I heard that the new owner was trying to charge bands for making noise in the middle of the night.  

 

Bands are used to putting up with crap but the new owners were trying to push people out before sending these letters.  The problem is that building a purpose-built band practice buildling would be a pretty risky investment and the insurance costs might be very high.  Luckily this area has homes with basements, but that doesn't accommodate people who live in condos and apartments. 

 

 

 

We inherited our band practice space from another band that had been renting it for a decade and had convinced the owners to let them build out additional walls in the interior of the space, creating a second room. This is probably not the kind of thing that a national self storage company would ever allow under any circumstances.

 

We were also told that there is a zero tolerance policy for sleeping in the space, and if you are caught bringing in a mattress, your lease will be instantly terminated. And although I never saw any evidence of anyone sleeping in the building, it would be pretty easy to bring in sleeping bags or other bedding while bringing other gear into the space. You could end up with people sleeping in there and bringing in space heaters, and this sounds a lot like the situation that led to the tragic Ghost Ship fire in Oakland.

 

7 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

The problem is that building a purpose-built band practice buildling would be a pretty risky investment and the insurance costs might be very high.

 

That is exactly the conundrum. If you invested in building a brand new band practice facility or artist complex, it would be so expensive that most musicians and artists wouldn't be able to afford it. So these usually end up being built in random warehouse type buildings (Pendleton Art Center, the former Felsenbrau Brewery, "The Good Stuff" on Spring Grove). There is always a risk that when a more profitable use for the building becomes possible, the bands and artists will get kicked out.

So the loss of About Space for bands, coupled with all the single family home renovations in Northside seems to spell the end of an era for Northside as a creative DIY, and music hub.

I know of two band practice houses that have gone off line since October. One on ApJones caught fire in a spectacular blaze. Another on Langland, near Junkers, which had the infamous "Jack Shack" off Carrie Alley sold and is currently getting renovated.

3 hours ago, taestell said:

We were also told that there is a zero tolerance policy for sleeping in the space, and if you are caught bringing in a mattress, your lease will be instantly terminated. And although I never saw any evidence of anyone sleeping in the building, it would be pretty easy to bring in sleeping bags or other bedding while bringing other gear into the space. You could end up with people sleeping in there and bringing in space heaters, and this sounds a lot like the situation that led to the tragic Ghost Ship fire in Oakland.

 

The band practice warehouse on the east side of John St. just south of Kaiser Pickle has had people living in it for years.  The building apparently has a shower or even more than one shower in it.

 

Also, the economics of a band practice space don't make sense unless it's pretty small or pretty big.  It seems like up to 10 units wouldn't require on-site management but you need to get up to 100+ spaces before the economics of having on-site security/manager make sense.  There are too many issues with people living such a space, dealing drugs, and stealing expensive gear from one another to not have security.   

There was a massive gear heist at one of those in Columbus a few years back.

1 hour ago, GCrites80s said:

There was a massive gear heist at one of those in Columbus a few years back.

 

The one constant in the world of music is the threat of theft of equipment.  

 

Also, Guitar Center's used gear listings are amazing.  It illustrates just how many people fall on hard times six months after buying something really expensive.  

 

Yes, used gear there is unbelievably cheap. There was a time that their prices were roughly in line with the rest of the secondary market  but not these days.

On 11/26/2018 at 2:14 PM, taestell said:

I just saw on Twitter that the former Save-A-Lot has been purchased, allowing the Apple Street Market to move forward. My question is, with the ongoing struggles of the Clifton Market (it is still open?), is the Apple Street Market actually a good idea and a viable business? If a small grocery coop can't make it in Clifton, can one make it in Northside just 2 miles down the road? Perhaps it would make more sense for one coop to operate both stores and share some of the overhead.

 

The Apple Street Market Cooperative has announced on Facebook that they are withdrawing from this deal, because the former Save-A-Lot building does not provide "sufficient parking or retail space for a successful, viable grocery store."

But...it was a Save-A-Lot?

I want details. Like "we couldn't use our meat cutter that is the size of a city bus" and "our apples are a lot bigger"

https://www-bizjournals-com.research.cincinnatilibrary.org/cincinnati/news/2020/01/06/philadelphia-company-will-develop-ex-northside.html

From my understanding, the whole site was to be redeveloped to include housing and perhaps more retail. I am not sure if the existing Sav-a-lot building is going to be repurposed now.

https://goo.gl/maps/ms77E6AUWX5Sd3Xz8

 

^ this site would be cool to have as a grocery store.

It was on the market last summer. I think GasLight Properties picked it up.

1 hour ago, seaswan said:

https://www-bizjournals-com.research.cincinnatilibrary.org/cincinnati/news/2020/01/06/philadelphia-company-will-develop-ex-northside.html

 

Here's a direct link to the Business Courier site.

I think the days of every neighborhood having a large, full service grocery store are well behind us. Chains like Kroger have been moving towards a business model with a smaller number of larger stores for years. The struggles of Clifton Market have shown us that operating an independent grocery story/coop is difficult, even in affluent neighborhoods. Northside would be a great location for a bodega that carries a bit of fresh produce, baked goods, dairy, etc. in addition to standard convenience store packaged goods. For larger grocery trips, Clifton Market is up the street and accessible by transit, and the Kenard Ave. Kroger is a short drive away. I don't think Northside can really support a large grocery store with a full service deli, bakery, meat department, etc.

31 minutes ago, NsideProp said:

From my understanding, the whole site was to be redeveloped to include housing and perhaps more retail. I am not sure if the existing Sav-a-lot building is going to be repurposed now.

 

Pennrose is redeveloping the site with a mixed use building. Retail with apartments on top. The Apple Street Market folks decided that Pennrose's concept wouldn't work for them because there wouldn't be enough parking to accommodate both apartments and the grocery store, among other reasons.

The Clifton Market situation was unusual because they went ahead with doing it even after Cranley yanked funding.  So their debt payments were ridiculous.  Also, because of Cranley's games, the market only opened 3-4 months before the Corryville Kroger opened.  They were no able to take advantage of the period when there was no Kroger in the immediate area.  

 

For a grocery to work in Northside it needs to be on Hamilton Ave.  It basically needs to be where Hoffner Park is, which would require establishing an equivalent park nearby.  A grocery in that location would help further activate the Hamilton Ave. strip.  Putting the grocery back off that street doesn't create that reciprocal effect.  

 

 

2 hours ago, taestell said:

I think the days of every neighborhood having a large, full service grocery store are well behind us. Chains like Kroger have been moving towards a business model with a smaller number of larger stores for years. The struggles of Clifton Market have shown us that operating an independent grocery story/coop is difficult, even in affluent neighborhoods. Northside would be a great location for a bodega that carries a bit of fresh produce, baked goods, dairy, etc. in addition to standard convenience store packaged goods. For larger grocery trips, Clifton Market is up the street and accessible by transit, and the Kenard Ave. Kroger is a short drive away. I don't think Northside can really support a large grocery store with a full service deli, bakery, meat department, etc.

 

There's really a lot of things the rest of the business community used to be able to do 30-40 years ago that they can't do now because of these mega-Krogers.

On 1/6/2020 at 12:40 PM, taestell said:

I think the days of every neighborhood having a large, full service grocery store are well behind us. Chains like Kroger have been moving towards a business model with a smaller number of larger stores for years. The struggles of Clifton Market have shown us that operating an independent grocery story/coop is difficult, even in affluent neighborhoods. Northside would be a great location for a bodega that carries a bit of fresh produce, baked goods, dairy, etc. in addition to standard convenience store packaged goods. For larger grocery trips, Clifton Market is up the street and accessible by transit, and the Kenard Ave. Kroger is a short drive away. I don't think Northside can really support a large grocery store with a full service deli, bakery, meat department, etc.

We've had two bodega type places in the past decade - Madison's had a satellite location where Django is today (they closed because Brian Madison was fuming about the farmer's market being in the parking lot next door at the time one day a week, which was huge 'ok boomer' energy), and then Picnic and Pantry was in the space at the back of the Northside Tavern for years. P&P closed when Melt got sold to the Wellmann Group.

 

Frankly, I'm not sure if the bodega model is possible anymore in a lower density city like Cincy; bodegas usually make up for their higher costs (because they can't purchase in large amounts like regular grocery stores) by inflating their prices. But since the majority of folks are now used to driving to the grocery store, they're gonna have some sticker shock at bodega prices. So the people that would be shopping there would be people without a car, who'd be less likely to be able to pay the higher prices and would thus buy less.

I think specialty food stores can get away with charging higher prices for customer service and more unique products. The Rhined in Findlay seems to be doing very well, for example. and i think that once Morsel & Nosh opens up they'll be pretty successful. They'll basically be an upscale deli that does catering and sandwiches.

^ Convenience fees are definitely alive and well with delivery services.

47 minutes ago, northsider said:

We've had two bodega type places in the past decade - Madison's had a satellite location where Django is today (they closed because Brian Madison was fuming about the farmer's market being in the parking lot next door at the time one day a week, which was huge 'ok boomer' energy), and then Picnic and Pantry was in the space at the back of the Northside Tavern for years. P&P closed when Melt got sold to the Wellmann Group.

 

Frankly, I'm not sure if the bodega model is possible anymore in a lower density city like Cincy; bodegas usually make up for their higher costs (because they can't purchase in large amounts like regular grocery stores) by inflating their prices. But since the majority of folks are now used to driving to the grocery store, they're gonna have some sticker shock at bodega prices. So the people that would be shopping there would be people without a car, who'd be less likely to be able to pay the higher prices and would thus buy less.

I think specialty food stores can get away with charging higher prices for customer service and more unique products. The Rhined in Findlay seems to be doing very well, for example. and i think that once Morsel & Nosh opens up they'll be pretty successful. They'll basically be an upscale deli that does catering and sandwiches.

 

The key to being able to have a successful bodega or smaller grocery in Northside is development, development, development. We need many more apartments in Northside badly.

I have this feeling like Northside south of Blue Rock is going to look a lot different in 10 years. 

9 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:

 

The key to being able to have a successful bodega or smaller grocery in Northside is development, development, development. We need many more apartments in Northside badly.

I'd love more apartments, especially affordable apartments, in Northside!! but if the new residents are car owners used to driving for groceries, then... not sure if it'll help bodega prospects.

 

*sigh* I really do miss P&P. great way to fill up on needs in between grocery story trips, and their prepared foods were really good. 

4 minutes ago, Chas Wiederhold said:

I have this feeling like Northside south of Blue Rock is going to look a lot different in 10 years. 

 

I hope so. I have dreams of the auto repair and sales places along Spring Grove being replaced with beautiful, dense apartment buildings. 

6 minutes ago, northsider said:

I'd love more apartments, especially affordable apartments, in Northside!! but if the new residents are car owners used to driving for groceries, then... not sure if it'll help bodega prospects.

 

*sigh* I really do miss P&P. great way to fill up on needs in between grocery story trips, and their prepared foods were really good. 

 

I'm not so sure. I own a car and, unfortunately, I drive it more than I'd like. I would happily walk to Hamilton Avenue to shop for groceries, even if it meant paying a couple bucks more. I walk to McKie to work out, even though I could drive to a bigger gym if I wanted. Several of my neighbors drive to Clifton Market because they prefer it to Kroger, and I think they'd walk to a similar establishment in Northside. We just need a much larger customer base than we currently have.

 

EDIT: I'm partly basing my opinion on living in bigger cities where many people still owned cars but used them sparingly because they had many more options to walk to.

Edited January 8, 20205 yr by DEPACincy

Anyone notice that signage is up for "Northside Express" across the street from DoJo. Perhaps this is a smaller scale convenience store filling in a need in the community.

This is the same site as the long rumored home of the fabled Northside Applebee's.

https://goo.gl/maps/7zuG7SrPF14S3cHZ7

On 1/6/2020 at 12:40 PM, taestell said:

I think the days of every neighborhood having a large, full service grocery store are well behind us. Chains like Kroger have been moving towards a business model with a smaller number of larger stores for years. The struggles of Clifton Market have shown us that operating an independent grocery story/coop is difficult, even in affluent neighborhoods. Northside would be a great location for a bodega that carries a bit of fresh produce, baked goods, dairy, etc. in addition to standard convenience store packaged goods. For larger grocery trips, Clifton Market is up the street and accessible by transit, and the Kenard Ave. Kroger is a short drive away. I don't think Northside can really support a large grocery store with a full service deli, bakery, meat department, etc.

 

Like a UDF? I don't know if the one on Chase has any produce, the one in Clifton does.

 

The "bodega" definition can turn pedantic pretty quickly. CUF is able to support a handful of what I'd consider to count as bodegas in the east coast sense: Ravine St. Market, E&G Mart, and Riddle Road Market. These are distinct from convenience stores for only a handful of reasons - mostly because they're not chains and don't have much parking (if any). Riddle Road Market may be more of a "deli" because it sells hot meals.

 

And then there are pony kegs, like the place on the corner of Colerain and Virginia. The defining characteristic of pony keg being a focus on beer, liquor, and lottery tickets. Contrary to popular belief, you don't have to be able to drive through a pony keg. I'd consider a pony keg and a drive-thru to be completely different types of businesses.

4 minutes ago, Ram23 said:

 

Like a UDF? I don't know if the one on Chase has any produce, the one in Clifton does.

 

The "bodega" definition can turn pedantic pretty quickly. CUF is able to support a handful of what I'd consider to count as bodegas in the east coast sense: Ravine St. Market, E&G Mart, and Riddle Road Market. These are distinct from convenience stores for only a handful of reasons - mostly because they're not chains and don't have much parking (if any). Riddle Road Market may be more of a "deli" because it sells hot meals.

 

And then there are pony kegs, like the place on the corner of Colerain and Virginia. The defining characteristic of pony keg being a focus on beer, liquor, and lottery tickets. Contrary to popular belief, you don't have to be able to drive through a pony keg. I'd consider a pony keg and a drive-thru to be completely different types of businesses.

 

yeah, no real produce in the Chase UDF. They do have some dry good stuff and some lunchmeats and of course, milk and juice.  

 

Maybe the better play would be asking UDF to start stocking some produce.

The existence of that UDF did cross my mind, but I didn't think that they have much in the way of produce and definitely not anything like meat or fish. I agree that convincing UDF to carry more items like that would probably be the best approach. Although, that's probably not what the Apple Street Co-Op wants to hear.

3 hours ago, Robuu said:

^ Convenience fees are definitely alive and well with delivery services.

 

The Riddle Rd. Market has been selling T-shirts and billing itself as a live music venue for 5+ years.  It's a very Northside sort-of thing to do.  Northside still had a corner market operating at Apjones & Chambers (or Mad Anthony?  I can't quite remember) until recently.  Also there is the gas station and the thing across the street at Chase & Kirby.  

 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, northsider said:

 

yeah, no real produce in the Chase UDF. They do have some dry good stuff and some lunchmeats and of course, milk and juice.  

 

Maybe the better play would be asking UDF to start stocking some produce.

 

Hmmm, I'm not sure if they know much about the banana business...

Edited January 8, 20205 yr by GCrites80s

Two new construction houses going up on Mad Anthony, between Knowlton and Spring Grove. The green house on the right is also being renovated.

 

Pic taken 1/25/2020

Edited January 27, 20205 yr by DEPACincy

^ these two guys have gone up pretty quick too. I was surprised to see the foundation get installed, and then a week later or so to see the framing rise up. They are not going to be too big, no basement either.

Does anyone know if the Knowlton Tavern is still open. I thought it was supposed to be shut down by now already. Did they lose their liquor license ? Anyone know what the situation is?

26 minutes ago, NsideProp said:

^ these two guys have gone up pretty quick too. I was surprised to see the foundation get installed, and then a week later or so to see the framing rise up. They are not going to be too big, no basement either.

 

Yea, unless they're three stories. Then they'll be pretty big. But having no basement really made them go up fast. There's a lot a block from there that is supposed to get three new construction homes but it has just been a hole in the ground forever. Hopefully that gets back on track eventually. 

25 minutes ago, NsideProp said:

Does anyone know if the Knowlton Tavern is still open. I thought it was supposed to be shut down by now already. Did they lose their liquor license ? Anyone know what the situation is?

 

I also heard they were supposed to be closing but I still see people there when I go by. 

20 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:

 

Yea, unless they're three stories. Then they'll be pretty big. But having no basement really made them go up fast. There's a lot a block from there that is supposed to get three new construction homes but it has just been a hole in the ground forever. Hopefully that gets back on track eventually. 

 

Its to my understanding they will not be 3 stories, rather only 2.

Additionally, the same developer is doing the project across the street from the Knowlton Tavern, the one you mention. They might be waiting to start those 3 after KT closes down.

1 hour ago, NsideProp said:

 

Its to my understanding they will not be 3 stories, rather only 2.

Additionally, the same developer is doing the project across the street from the Knowlton Tavern, the one you mention. They might be waiting to start those 3 after KT closes down.

 

Gotcha. I saw they pulled permits for them again toward the end of 2019. Thought they would be getting under way soon after that. Glad to hear they plan to get them started at some point.

Developer plans first-of-its-kind development for former Apple Street Market site

 

 

Developers plan to build a senior housing project in Northside aimed at LGBTQ people, which they say is the first of its kind in Cincinnati.

 

Northsiders Engaged in Sustainable Transformation and Philadelphia-basedPennrose plan to put 57 studio, one- and two-bedroom apartments at 4145 Apple St., the former planned site of Apple Street Market. They’re calling it Apple Street Senior.

 

It’s the latest Cincinnati project for Pennrose, which also is developing a 173-unit mixed-use development in College Hill with the College Hill Community Urban Redevelopment Corporation.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2020/02/21/developer-plans-first-of-its-kind-development-for.html

On 2/21/2020 at 10:48 PM, ColDayMan said:

Developer plans first-of-its-kind development for former Apple Street Market site

 

Developers plan to build a senior housing project in Northside aimed at LGBTQ people, which they say is the first of its kind in Cincinnati.

 

Northsiders Engaged in Sustainable Transformation and Philadelphia-basedPennrose plan to put 57 studio, one- and two-bedroom apartments at 4145 Apple St., the former planned site of Apple Street Market. They’re calling it Apple Street Senior.

 

It’s the latest Cincinnati project for Pennrose, which also is developing a 173-unit mixed-use development in College Hill with the College Hill Community Urban Redevelopment Corporation.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2020/02/21/developer-plans-first-of-its-kind-development-for.html

 

I feel really bad that Apple Street Market failed (my husband and I bought "memberships" to support it), but projects like that are incredibly difficult to get off the ground at that scale.  Something smaller for fresh produce and some meats in the neighborhood would be incredibly welcome and lord knows there's enough storefronts that could handle it.

 

this is a really neat project though, and I'm glad that something with a bit of density to it is going into this lot.

Update on the two houses on Mad Anthony:

Updated from Chambers and Knowlton. This is supposed to be three single family detached homes, but this foundation works looks intriguing:

Site Plan for the Apple Street Senior Apartments

 

On 1/8/2020 at 6:30 PM, GCrites80s said:

 

Hmmm, I'm not sure if they know much about the banana business...

There’s always money in the banana stand

On 4/10/2020 at 12:34 PM, DEPACincy said:

Updated from Chambers and Knowlton. This is supposed to be three single family detached homes, but this foundation works looks intriguing:

I went by yesterday along a run and there are no openings between the "rooms". The rebar has now been extended several feet higher and I couldn't find and indication of passage. My best guess is that the soil here required deep foundations and they had to dig this deep to get to firm earth. Also going to guess that the entry and elevator is at the top of the photo. Interested to see what this ends up turning into. Not cheap!

Everything in Northside southeast of the old rail line is on the flood plain.  The soil conditions are likely different for this reason, since sediment was deposited here semi-regularly for thousands of years until the Mill Creek Barrier Dam was built in the 1940s.  

On 4/27/2020 at 11:40 AM, Chas Wiederhold said:

I went by yesterday along a run and there are no openings between the "rooms". The rebar has now been extended several feet higher and I couldn't find and indication of passage. My best guess is that the soil here required deep foundations and they had to dig this deep to get to firm earth. Also going to guess that the entry and elevator is at the top of the photo. Interested to see what this ends up turning into. Not cheap!

 

We have an update! Looks like three townhomes. The one on the right looks like it is going to be pretty darn big. I'd like to see them build more of this throughout the neighborhood. 

 

 

 

 

Woof