276 units being proposed at Crawford and Spring Lawn. I love hearing that we are getting 200+ new units but I have to say I did not expect this location. A lot of people in the neighborhood Facebook group are very pissed. I'm not a fan of the design either. It's basically suburban, garden style schlock. Hopefully the neighborhood pushes them for a more appropriate design, though I don't know what that would look like at this location. 

That's a bizarre site for an apartment complex. That corner is one of the most pastoral areas inside the city limits. The stuff on the other side of Spring Grove Cemetery around Wooden Shoe Hollow takes the cake, though. The old greenhouse chimneys are an interesting sight. It's a very unique part of the city.

 

42 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:

A lot of people in the neighborhood Facebook group are very pissed.

 

This statement is true every day of the year. That group is hilarious.

1 hour ago, DEPACincy said:

276 units being proposed at Crawford and Spring Lawn.

Interesting. Agreed that it's always good to add residents, and also that the site plan feels uninspired. There's a lot of green space, especially on the northern edge of the site but also in between buildings. If not well designed, those green spaces will just be vacant fields of grass that won't get much use because residents will feel awkward sitting out there. It requires thoughtful design to make the outdoor, communal spaces feel inviting. 

 

In terms of the surrounding location: there are no sidewalks on that part of Crawford or Spring Lawn. I'm not sure if the City or community council has any leverage with the developer, but if there is any leverage, I'd try to advocate for getting funding to add sidewalks. It's a bit over half a mile to Parker Woods. I'd love for families to be able to live in this apartment complex and for the kids to be able to walk/bike to school. If this project is successful

Edited October 14, 20204 yr by jwulsin

1 hour ago, Chas Wiederhold said:

Under a Joe Biden New Deal 

 

I took photos of Joe Biden speaking in Northside back in 2009 or 2010.  I thought they'd be in this thread but there is a 3-4 year gap so they must have been lost in one of the server crashes.  I'll find them and post them here again.  

 

He was speaking in what is now The Gantry's rear parking lot with the then-vacant American Can Factory making a dramatic "Rust Belt" background.  He was building back better, or something.  

 

The abandonment of the CH&D ROW back around 1970 was a medium-sized disaster (the paving over of the subway was an epic disaster, for perspective), since it lent itself so well to tying together disparate areas that became much more fragmented by the construction of I-74 and the steady decline of the west side in contrast to Northside's late-1990s replacement of Corryville as the city's bohemian area.  

 

I always found it a bit odd that bicycling advocates didn't fight to restore the surviving ROW back when the American Can Building was renovated.  Even though the ROW was blocked by I-74, I think a 1-mile path from Mitchell Ave. across the cemetery into the center of Northside would have been really useful.  

24 minutes ago, jwulsin said:

Interesting. Agreed that it's always good to add residents, and also that the site plan feels uninspired. There's a lot of green space, especially on the northern edge of the site but also in between buildings. If not well designed, those green spaces will just be vacant fields of grass that won't get much use because residents will feel awkward sitting out there.

 

Areas for dogs to take dumps

2 minutes ago, GCrites80s said:

Areas for dogs to take dumps

 

34 minutes ago, jwulsin said:

Interesting. Agreed that it's always good to add residents, and also that the site plan feels uninspired. There's a lot of green space, especially on the northern edge of the site but also in between buildings. If not well designed, those green spaces will just be vacant fields of grass that won't get much use because residents will feel awkward sitting out there. It requires thoughtful design to make the outdoor, communal spaces feel inviting. 

 

In terms of the surrounding location: there are no sidewalks on that part of Crawford or Spring Lawn. I'm not sure if the City or community council has any leverage with the developer, but if there is any leverage, I'd try to advocate for getting funding to add sidewalks. It's a bit over half a mile to Parker Woods. I'd love for families to be able to live in this apartment complex and for the kids to be able to walk/bike to school. If this project is successful

It is a very steep site, and the parking requirements are driving a good portion of the development plan, so most of the green space is unbuildable.  I agree it is suburban design... but it is in a residential suburb.

50 minutes ago, Ram23 said:

 

This statement is true every day of the year. That group is hilarious.

 

I don't know what you're reading but the Northside facebook group is usually the least angry neighborhood facebook group I've ever encountered. It's mostly missing pets, home repair advice, info about community events, etc. Other than this apartment proposal, most of the angry comments are people complaining about cars speeding through the neighborhood, which is a very legit reason to be upset.

Just now, CincyIntheKnow said:

I agree it is suburban design... but it is in a residential suburb.

 

Northside is a city neighborhood, not a suburb. This particular area is not urban like most of the neighborhood, but it isn't suburban either. It actually feels pretty rural right now, despite being inside the city limits.

5 minutes ago, DEPACincy said:

 

Northside is a city neighborhood, not a suburb. This particular area is not urban like most of the neighborhood, but it isn't suburban either. It actually feels pretty rural right now, despite being inside the city limits.

So other than an argument about semantics, what are you trying to say? The development should be less dense?

18 minutes ago, CincyIntheKnow said:

So other than an argument about semantics, what are you trying to say? The development should be less dense?

 

No, just a point of clarification. It's not semantic. Also not trying to be argumentative. 

 

I'm all for density. I'd like to see a development that reflects existing development in the more built up portions of the neighborhood though.

1 hour ago, DEPACincy said:

 

I don't know what you're reading but the Northside facebook group is usually the least angry neighborhood facebook group I've ever encountered. It's mostly missing pets, home repair advice, info about community events, etc. Other than this apartment proposal, most of the angry comments are people complaining about cars speeding through the neighborhood, which is a very legit reason to be upset.

 

unless the topic of off leash dogs in Parker Woods / Buttercup Valley comes up...

1 hour ago, northsider said:

 

unless the topic of off leash dogs in Parker Woods / Buttercup Valley comes up...

 

Haha that is true.

4 hours ago, DEPACincy said:

276 units being proposed at Crawford and Spring Lawn...

 

It's like they dusted off an old development plan from 1972 and said "this looks fine." 

5 minutes ago, jjakucyk said:

 

It's like they dusted off an old development plan from 1972 and said "this looks fine." 

 

It's just like the Casey apartments, which are from the 80s or 90s.  The Spyglass is from the 70s!.  

 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Northside,+Cincinnati,+OH/@39.1778058,-84.5481827,224m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x8841b490e203a9a3:0x15619184aeb125a0!8m2!3d39.1654973!4d-84.5408439

An Aside: Please replace the Spyglass with something that really does the topography justice. That little bluff is such a unique urban feature, and a missed opportunity (like Bald Knob, Goat Hill et al.).

I don't like these proposed new apartments, but they're in an out of the way place that wouldn't be pedestrian friendly even if there were sidewalks all along Spring Lawn and Crawford - it'd be about a half hour walk to the beginning of the Hamilton business district at Hamilton and Chase. 16 minutes to the nearest bus stop and it'd be steeply uphill.

 

also, they're in a distant corner of the neighborhood that few people rarely see, so the impact on the neighborhood's character would be limited.

Edited October 14, 20204 yr by northsider

23 minutes ago, northsider said:

16 minutes to the nearest bus stop and it'd be steeply uphill.

 

The #27 Casey bus route terminates at the Casey apartments.  In theory there could be another bus line that is made to travel across Spring Lawn and down Crawford to the new transit center, but the fact is that this apartment complex will add some traffic to Spring Lawn, a street which currently has almost zero traffic, and no doubt the people who already live there like it that way.  I don't think the Spring Lawn residents would care so much if a developer planned 20-30 homes for that same site.  

18 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

The #27 Casey bus route terminates at the Casey apartments.  In theory there could be another bus line that is made to travel across Spring Lawn and down Crawford to the new transit center, but the fact is that this apartment complex will add some traffic to Spring Lawn, a street which currently has almost zero traffic, and no doubt the people who already live there like it that way.  I don't think the Spring Lawn residents would care so much if a developer planned 20-30 homes for that same site.  

 

Fears about "traffic" are almost always misguided. I know you're trying to speak on behalf of Spring Lawn residents... but even adding 275 apartments, which is a pretty large project, won't create "traffic problems" for Spring Lawn or Crawford. Residents come and go at different times throughout the day. There's no reason to expect this would create any problems for the existing roads. 

A good old-fashioned ATM theft: 

https://www.fox19.com/2020/10/19/police-trying-identify-suspects-seen-stealing-atm/

First renderings of the PLK proposal at Blue Rock and Hamilton and on Cherry between Hoffner and Cooper:
 

 

Wow, way smaller than I anticipated thanks to no structured parking.  I though Ace Doran was a goner.  Maybe they'll keep that west-facing mural intact for Instagram selfies.  

Pretty typical of new stuff stylistically (which is ok). I like the fact they are incorporating the old building along Blue Rock into it.

 

the first picture has a very boring first floor (is it concealing parking?) but I can’t picture what streets that would face. The Vandalia side of the corner building in the third picture is too blank.

Edited October 26, 20204 yr by thebillshark

I also like that the Ace building is staying, I always think projects are more interesting when they have to work around obstacles like that, and it will create an interesting pedestrian gap between the buildings. My only criticism is that I wish the building at the corner of Blue Rock and Hamilton was 4 or 5 stories. Gantry is 4 so it should be at least 4. 

2 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

I also like that the Ace building is staying, I always think projects are more interesting when they have to work around obstacles like that, and it will create an interesting pedestrian gap between the buildings. My only criticism is that I wish the building at the corner of Blue Rock and Hamilton was 4 or 5 stories. Gantry is 4 so it should be at least 4. 

 

Agreed. I wonder if they're running into parking requirement issues.

 

I also wonder what's going to happen to the old red brick Ace Doran building that borders Hoffner Park. It's a neat building, and the brick offers a really nice sense of bracketing the park space. I hope it's able to be repurposed.

Edited October 26, 20204 yr by northsider

If I'm looking at the rendering correctly, it looks like the red brick Ace Doran building next to Humble Monk will be demolished and replaced by new construction. Only the shorter painted brick building will be preserved.

28 minutes ago, taestell said:

If I'm looking at the rendering correctly, it looks like the red brick Ace Doran building next to Humble Monk will be demolished and replaced by new construction. Only the shorter painted brick building will be preserved.

I was talking about the red brick Ace Doran building on the north side of Blue Rock bordering Hoffner Park.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1602406,-84.5409656,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sgKuDNgUkEdXlZMS9IrIiGg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DgKuDNgUkEdXlZMS9IrIiGg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D234.93202%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

Edited October 26, 20204 yr by northsider

4 hours ago, northsider said:

I was talking about the red brick Ace Doran building on the north side of Blue Rock bordering Hoffner Park.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1602406,-84.5409656,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sgKuDNgUkEdXlZMS9IrIiGg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DgKuDNgUkEdXlZMS9IrIiGg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D234.93202%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

I do not believe this is part of the land that PLK has obtained. 

4 hours ago, northsider said:

I was talking about the red brick Ace Doran building on the north side of Blue Rock bordering Hoffner Park.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1602406,-84.5409656,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sgKuDNgUkEdXlZMS9IrIiGg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DgKuDNgUkEdXlZMS9IrIiGg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D234.93202%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

 

That's not a part of this development but I heard rumors it was going to be incorporated into a condo development.

Edited October 27, 20204 yr by DEPACincy

Pretty uninspiring and unambitious. Disappointing to see a featureless wall along Vandalia. Seems like it would have been a good place for storefronts...or balconies.

 

I dusted off my old hard drive and found these photos of then-VP Joe Biden speaking at the American Can Building when it received stimulus money back in 2009. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 20204 yr by jmecklenborg

11 hours ago, zsnyder said:

Pretty uninspiring and unambitious. Disappointing to see a featureless wall along Vandalia. Seems like it would have been a good place for storefronts...or balconies.

 

 

Or for some grungy Northside graffiti to make the building really fit into the neighborhood. 

 

For real, though, the building is a single loaded corridor (you can see the floor plan on the roof)... so at most you are going to get south facing windows in the hallways and stairwell, but no balconies on that side. I had originally written in my survey that it would be great for Vandalia to be pedestrianized and for storefronts to open onto it to create a little ecosystem with Collective Espresso's courtyard. Maybe there is still an opportunity for that.

 

17 hours ago, ucgrady said:

I also like that the Ace building is staying, I always think projects are more interesting when they have to work around obstacles like that, and it will create an interesting pedestrian gap between the buildings. My only criticism is that I wish the building at the corner of Blue Rock and Hamilton was 4 or 5 stories. Gantry is 4 so it should be at least 4. 

 

I agree with this. I also wish that the roof of the remaining historic building would be public, but it looks like it may be an amenity deck for residents. In any case, I wish the canopy over the roof deck would extend for the entire footprint of the building, giving the building an entire covered outdoor public space. I don't see why the building on the corner couldn't be taller unless it has to do with parking requirements... in which case I would go for a variance because of the proximity of the transit center.

I really doubt this is even close to the final design. PLK seems to be doing a great job taking feedback from communities in Madisonville and Norwood.

13 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

I dusted off my old hard drive and found these photos of then-VP Joe Biden speaking at the American Can Building when it received stimulus money back in 2009. 

 

great shots! I remember that Ace Doran at the time decided to put up a large truck trailer in their lot with the message "One Big Ass Mistake America" written in giant letters on it

7 hours ago, Dev said:

I really doubt this is even close to the final design. PLK seems to be doing a great job taking feedback from communities in Madisonville and Norwood.

I think citing the nascence of the process is bad cover for bad design.  The early stuff should be aspirational. To start here and hope to get better through iteration is moving in the right direction in the wrong vehicle, imo.

Just a couple updates from my evening run yesterday...

 

Rock Island's Knowlton Station has risen above its deep foundations:

 

 

 

Greyrock's Cherry Street Project has popped its top and has been reclad.

 

 

1 hour ago, Chas Wiederhold said:

 

Greyrock's Cherry Street Project has popped its top and has been reclad.

 

 

I can see the back of this project from my backyard and the workers on it have surprisingly good singing voices!!

12 minutes ago, northsider said:

 

I can see the back of this project from my backyard and the workers on it have surprisingly good singing voices!!

Hahaha... I'm an acquaintance of someone who I've seen working on it and I can confirm!

On 10/27/2020 at 9:10 PM, zsnyder said:

I think citing the nascence of the process is bad cover for bad design.  The early stuff should be aspirational. To start here and hope to get better through iteration is moving in the right direction in the wrong vehicle, imo.

It seems very clear to me that this is a rough sketch and not indicative of a final design. Design firms are not going to spend the time and money on extremely detailed renderings when they are still asking for client, or public, feedback.

Often times clients want architects to keep the initial designs as fuzzy as possible to avoid community comments and outrage over particular aspects of a project. This model is clearly in sketchup, so it's not far into the design process and is probably a hollow shell. That being said, I agree that things like density, massing and form should be nailed down already, and in this way it's better to be aspirational. You never see density added during community engagement, so if you want three stories you're better off proposing four so that when you settle for three stories with the community both sides feel like they won.

The design for 3924 Cherry has been updated after community input. It's a heck of a lot better in my opinion. Attached the old drawing here too, for reference.

New renderings for the Ace Doran development at the  corner of Hamilton and Blue Rock.

Northside Scholar House. Corner of Knowlton and Dane. 45 to 55 affordable units for single parents who are enrolled in school. Day care will be open to the general public.

 

I just posted this in Only in Northside, but to get this audience's reaction I'm just going to paste without rewriting here:

I didn't attend the community council meeting last night, but I did catch a glimpse at the plan for Dane and Knowlton. I am so excited that a program like Scholar House wants to build one of their residences in Northside. I am excited about their mission and I think it is a noble project. I don't bring this up to make the development of the site more difficult or costly... but to what point do we want to breathe new life into Northside's remaining historic industrial buildings? These buildings might fade to the background or even be an eyesore for some, but an imaginative eye could imagine a vibrant community arts center, a vendor market, an event space, coexisting on the Scholar House site. What happens to this building when it has new windows and a fresh paint job? How would it benefit Scholar House residents and their neighbors? I ask this question because just by rotating the current development plan, you can see that these two projects can coexist. Is there a will in our community to imagine something like this?

Edited December 22, 20204 yr by Chas Wiederhold
adding photos

6 minutes ago, Chas Wiederhold said:

 

 

 

I love the idea but I'm not sure it's feasible. Where would the funding come from? Is the space in a prominent enough location? Is there enough density to support it? These things could be investigated further but my gut reaction is: there is none, no, and no. I'm willing to be convinced though haha. It does remind me of the adaptive reuse pictured here in Philly, which I absolutely love.

 

 

It doesn't cost a dime to not tear down the building.

Here's some pics of the back and side of the Sprouts building.

Just now, Chas Wiederhold said:

It doesn't cost a dime to not tear down the building.

 

I mean to support a market or vendors space. If you're going to go that route there'd have to be a financial case. And to use the building for anything there'd have to be remediation I suspect.

I don't think we need to figure that part out right away.

 

I would prefer to be an arts complex that an arts organization operates, like the Bakehouse Art Complex in Miami. Closest relatives to that project in Cincinnati would be the CCAC, Kennedy Heights Art Center, and Baker Hunt.

 

http://www.bacfl.org/ourmission

8 minutes ago, Chas Wiederhold said:

I don't think we need to figure that part out right away.

 

I would prefer to be an arts complex that an arts organization operates, like the Bakehouse Art Complex in Miami. Closest relatives to that project in Cincinnati would be the CCAC, Kennedy Heights Art Center, and Baker Hunt.

 

http://www.bacfl.org/ourmission

 

Oh gotcha. I thought you meant that Scholar House should redevelop it as an add on to their project. But you just mean don't touch it and come up with a plan for the future. I definitely think that idea should be brought up at community council.