I don't care what anyone says about Cleveland's downtown it's much more livelier that Miami's.  The next time anyone complains about Downtown Cleveland, show them pictures of "hip" (NOT) Miami!

 

I was there from Thursday of last week to Tuesday morning.  I went out for a run or walked a few blocks to a hotel where co-workers were staying.  The pictures below are from Miami's main drag.  Brickell Avenue (Miami' version of Euclid Ave.) there are lots of south american banks located in a 12 block strip of banks that radiates from downtown.  Think starting at Public Square and going east up Euclid or Superior.

 

During my trip, I don't think I saw more that 7 people on the street, that number includes to homeless guys.  Downtown Miami closes down at 4:45PM and looks like Downtown Cleveland 20 years ago.  there are probably 10 to 15 mid to high rise condo buildings with in a 5 block radius...yet not a soul on the street.

 

There are also quite a few damaged buildings.  Most of these buildings look like they were just hit by a hurricane.  Its hard to believe that its been 8 months since the hurricane. Those in Cleveland who complain about progres, should rejoice in the fact that the grass is not greenier on the other side.  the only plus is a large Publix grocery store 4 blocks away.  The downtown Macy's was closed. 

 

 

While I was in Miami, I met some international Real Estate investors and an analyst.  They were talking about place to live and markets that are hot.  They specifically stated that the South Florida market has started to free fall and the bubble is crumbling, so I asked why.  I was told (I took notes):

 

a) monthly sales have decrease almost 40% since last year

b) nobody can get insurance or insurance rates are sky high

c) prices are up over 25%, from 2005

d) inventory is up 350%, since September '05

e) condo's make up half of all sales, yet they occupancy is way way down

f)  it will take 6 years for the market to recover

 

I then asked what is the best place for an investment or vacation property?  keep in mind I never told the guy where I lived.  I was shocked when he said, the midwest, it's coming back strong.  He stated, "Cleveland is the next big thing, there is a lot of talk around the industry about the redevelopment and interest in the downtown and lakefront and that the city has cautiously built just above market demand without creating a an abundance of properties that sell below cost and Chicago has gotten a bit to expensive".  He also mentioned, St. Louis and Pittsburgh as good investment areas. The all said to stay away from Ft. Lauderdale, Tampa, Orlando, Miami, Houston, NoLa, Raleigh, Atlanta, Seattle & Philadelphia.

 

So here street scape pics of Miami....Prepare to be bored  :|

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

they have better dressed homeless, I must say.

Interesting.

Almost post-apocalyptic!

So tell me...does downtown Cleveland, Cinci or C-Bus really look that bad compared to a place that is "supposedly" hot??

 

I really thought I would see tumbleweed coming down the street at any moment!

Gross.

that's funny - I have been recently thinking that the midwest cities would be perfectly poised to become the next 'big things", but attributed it mostly to my own wishful thinking!  Interesting to hear an outsiders opinions on this (and supposedly informed opinions, at that.)

 

Perhaps we should move some of these ideas to the city discussion thread and see what people have to say...

 

thanks for the pics, also.  Very interesting

I guess something to take away from this is that we need to be sure to do more than just plop large condo buildings downtown. It looks like there's nowhere to go to in downtown Miami.

Your thoughts are right on.  I was in Miami several years ago and noticed the same thing.  All the street action is in South Beach.  And while downtown Miami is building tons of new condo towers, they are all fortress-like and have almost no pedestrian connection to the street, it is drive in and go up.

Bayside area in downtown Miami is okay..but not great( but damn those Hooters girls there are HOT!)  There are some good "local" spots in Miami, but they are spread out and mostly outside of downtown.  The Grove and S Beach are about it when it comes to "hotspots".

^ i'd add calle ocho and the haitian market too. they are trying to have a design shopping area, but it's not all that yet (will it ever be?). oh, and i love that wacky old venetian pool in coral gables, but i think that is offically a burb not miami -- not sure. whatev, but they do have a few fun perhiperal nabes.

 

still, the main point is true, downtown miami is always like that. deader than deadsville. i am not surprized about real estate there, nor that realtors are instead talking up the midwest, nor also that cleveland was on the tip of their remarks.

 

Bayside area in downtown Miami is okay..but not great( but damn those Hooters girls there are HOT!)  There are some good "local" spots in Miami, but they are spread out and mostly outside of downtown.  The Grove and S Beach are about it when it comes to "hotspots".

 

there is nothing there but that horrible mall.  its worse than TC.  When I was there the Heat/Detroit game was going on (did I mention more people were wearing King James jersey's than Wade jersey's???) anyway...that area was completely dead!  people were running from their cars...to the arena.  this one woman even commented on how dangerous the area was.

 

Bayside area in downtown Miami is okay..but not great( but damn those Hooters girls there are HOT!)  There are some good "local" spots in Miami, but they are spread out and mostly outside of downtown.  The Grove and S Beach are about it when it comes to "hotspots".

 

coconut grove is a neighborhood on the border of miami.  South Beach is in the city of Miami Beach. so as you say...its got three or fun hip areas.

 

My reason for starting this thread was to prove that Clevelanders "think" we have such a horrible downtown when  in reality its a lot me lively than many places accross the country!

 

^ i'd add calle ocho and the haitian market too. they are trying to have a design shopping area, but it's not all that yet (will it ever be?). oh, and i love that wacky old venetian pool in coral gables, but i think that is offically a burb not miami -- not sure. whatev, but they do have a few fun perhiperal nabes.

 

still, the main point is true, downtown miami is always like that. deader than deadsville. i am not surprized about real estate there, nor that realtors are instead talking up the midwest, nor also that cleveland was on the tip of their remarks.

 

calle ocho is aiight!    I wasn't suprised that he thought the midwest was on a comeback, but the fact that he spefically said, "buy in Cleveland" was the first thing out of his mouth shocked me.

 

I wonder what if this has anything to do with Stark?  Or is it the amount of new housing development in the core of the city for the last 5/6 years that have finally gotten national attention?

 

Also, with many of the building downtown going condo, renters will need to move around.

yeah maybe they all just got back from that vegas convention and word got around? who knows? but that was interesting to hear for sure.

Downtown isn't very lively but I still think it's beautiful down there. The midwest is definitely the future.

  I have to agree that the Midwest seems like the future market.  The cost of livivng is pretty darn good in the area.  Specifically Cleveland, I think that there is no comparison between here and Miami(okay, maybe they have the Ocean and better weather).  When you talk about things going on..we have three pro sports teams right downtown.  The size of our theater district can't be beat outside of NYC.  The proximity of downtown bars and restaurants within walking distance (Warehouse district, gateway, and the coming back of the flats) and if you include a VERY short cab/public tranasit/car ride..you have Ohio City, Tremont, and even Lakewood...that equals WELL over 100 places to go within a 5-10 minute ride!(thats pretty good for a non-college town)  That is pretty hard to compete with whether it be Miami or even the other two big "C"s in Ohio.  Indeed, if you are from out of town, you may only know of the Warehouse area and it may not seem like much else is going on...but throw in the other areas mentioned, you better have a few weekends to get it all in (and a strong liver!)    I am partial to the near West since DT, OC, Tremont,and Lakewood are all VERY close in proximity...but I will throw a shout to the fairly near East side from DT...Little Italy and Coventry!

The size of our theater district can't be beat outside of NYC.

 

Debatable.

 

The proximity of downtown bars and restaurants within walking distance (Warehouse district, gateway, and the coming back of the flats) and if you include a VERY short cab/public tranasit/car ride..you have Ohio City, Tremont, and even Lakewood...that equals WELL over 100 places to go within a 5-10 minute ride!(thats pretty good for a non-college town)  That is pretty hard to compete with whether it be Miami or even the other two big "C"s in Ohio. 

 

You're joking (I pray), right?

 

Again, God bless pride but don't let it blind you.

The size of our theater district can't be beat outside of NYC.  The proximity of downtown bars and restaurants within walking distance (Warehouse district, gateway, and the coming back of the flats) and if you include a VERY short cab/public tranasit/car ride..you have Ohio City, Tremont, and even Lakewood...that equals WELL over 100 places to go within a 5-10 minute ride!(thats pretty good for a non-college town)  That is pretty hard to compete with whether it be Miami or even the other two big "C"s in Ohio.

 

Now dont get me wrong I am a BIGGGG Ohio advocate and support everything Ohio and Midwest in general.  However, I have heard these same arguments from other Clevelanders before and I just dont understand the unusual sense of pride that is taken in Cleveland's modest entertainment scene.

 

I guess perhaps that ever since the Rock and Roll HOF opened up Clevelanders believe that their city is the 'place to be' when it comes to happening entertainment.  Hey, Cincinnati isnt the best, but its not much different from Cleveland in terms of entertainment options.  I would say that it is proportionally smaller (smaller population).  But to say that their theatre district is 2nd to NYC is a stretch....(Toronto, Chicago, Nashville, DC...)  As for their being over 100 places to go...I would hope so if have a metro population around 2 million.

 

Back to real estate....Midwest is best (no rhyme intended).  I would look for cities like Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Cincy, and Detroit to see great turnarounds.  This would be due to their central locations and accessiblity and amenities (natural features, entertainment, cost, dense downtowns, architecture).  I cant wait to see it all happen!!!!!!!!

Actually, Cleveland does have the second largest amount of "theater seats" behind NYC. then Los Angeles, Houston and Toronto.

 

The theatre system in cleveland is amazing.  The hometown actors, acrtresses and dancers that migrate to NYC from Cleveland is insane.  My neighbor is an agent and tells me you have no idea how many buzzards circle cleveland for talent and send their productions to either Cleveland or LA fight after broadway.

 

For instance the young lady that plays Chris Rocks baby sister on "everyone hates Chris" lives in Cleveland with her father in two brothers.

  I think some of you have failed to realize what I meant.  I am not saying that Cleveland is better than South Beach, NYC, Chicago..etc.  I was saying that the core area of downtown and very nearby has many places to go compared to other places I have been.  Yes,...as it was stated, it should have over 100 places with a Metro over 2 million...but I wasn't talking about the "Metro" area...I was talking about the many restaurants, clubs, bars within very close proximity to downtown.  South Beach and Coconut Grove in the Miami area are great...but downtown Miami isn't so hot(no pun intended).  When it comes to the three big cities in Ohio... I have experienced Columbus, and it it nice...but things (to me) seem to be very spread out and not as many places in such close proximity.  As for Cincy, I have never been there.  I can only go by what my friend from Cincy who I work with at the fire station has told me.  His opinion is that Cincy is ultra conservative in comparison, slower paced, and that there is no real main entertainment area..that there are some really nice places, but again, are more spread out.  I can only go by what he has told me and from what another friend told me that moved down that way for work.  I have been to other cities outside of Ohio that I think aren't nearly as fun as Cleveland(sorry Pope, but Detroit is one of them)  The burbs there are nice (Royal Oak for one)..but downtown just didn't seem like it was a hot spot outside of the casinos.  I am in no way trying to say Cleveland is number one or be blinded with pride OR cut down other places...I was just making an observation from what I have seen and from visitors from other places.    All three Ohio big cities have cool things...hell, I WISH OSU were in downtown Cleveland!  I guess when it just boils down to what one might consider fun...so again...if my earlier post spazzed some of you out...I am sorry!  :)

But to say that their theatre district is 2nd to NYC is a stretch....(Toronto, Chicago, Nashville, DC...)  As for their being over 100 places to go...I would hope so if have a metro population around 2 million.

 

Let's get our facts straight: Playhouse Square is the largest performing arts center in the country (in terms of number of seats) after Lincoln Center in NYC. In terms of cities overall, I have no idea where different places rank in number of theater seats. I'm sure NYC has exponentially more than any other U.S. city. And other U.S. cities have local theater scenes more vibrant than Cleveland's, even though we do have a large performing arts center -- think Chicago, San Francisco, possibly Minneapolis (though I think that rests largely on the reputation of a single regional theater, whose name escapes me at the moment).

 

On a side note, I think Cleveland's most interesting theater is performed outside of Playhouse Square, at places like Cleveland Public Theatre, Karamu, Dobama and (sometimes) the Cleveland Playhouse.

There are many Clevelanders who take pride in the size of Playhouse Square. Architecturally, its pretty cool.  But as Blinker12 suggests, Cleveland stands out with its smaller theaters.  In the drama world, Cleveland is well-respected and seen as a place for good employment (we are often negative about this stuff, but non-Clevelanders often see Chicago as over-run by people looking for theater work and see Cleveland as a place holding great opportunities)

 

Uncle Rando--how does Nashville deserve to be mentioned in this conversation?  Their theater district is almost non-existent, headlined only by a very very ugly 1960s theater.

About the Cleveland theater scene, my girlfriend was a part of it and is now in New York City trying to do it professionally.  One of the main reasons for this area being an incubator for theater talent has a lot to do with Baldwin-Wallace College.  To my knowledge it is ranked third in the nation for musical theater and is the only musical theater program in the country where the students are required to have a bachelors in music along with performing arts.  I think without a school like that our scene wouldn't be nearly as healthy but as long as it's here the Cleveland area is a thriving upstart theater community.  I know of at least 7 people in the program who are from Cincinnati as well and they mention how Cleveland's theater scene is larger and healthier and I'm not trying to say something bad about Cincy, that's just what I've heard.  Cleveland is lacking a big name regional theater though and if we could just get a few summer stock theaters it would help our scene. 

When it comes to the three big cities in Ohio... I have experienced Columbus, and it it nice...but things (to me) seem to be very spread out and not as many places in such close proximity.  As for Cincy, I have never been there.  I can only go by what my friend from Cincy who I work with at the fire station has told me.  His opinion is that Cincy is ultra conservative in comparison, slower paced, and that there is no real main entertainment area..that there are some really nice places, but again, are more spread out.  I can only go by what he has told me and from what another friend told me that moved down that way for work. 

 

Uhh...Columbus' nightlife is MUCH more condensed than Cleveland's (which, as you said, is in Lakewood...skip skip...Ohio City...skip over bridge...Tremont...skip over valley...downtown...past ghetto...Coventry).  Columbus is much more continuous urbanistically and a bit more vibrant (due to the large student population and active Short North).

 

As for Cincinnati, it is decentralized, as the many nightlife districts are well within the neighborhoods, thus people don't have to leave their "hood" for nightlife; thus no centralized location where people can come congregate all over the metro.  It's a different animal than Columbus and Cleveland.  I just think Clevelanders take a little too much pride in their "districts" and compare and apple to an orange without realize that an apple isn't an orange.

But to say that their theatre district is 2nd to NYC is a stretch....(Toronto, Chicago, Nashville, DC...)  As for their being over 100 places to go...I would hope so if have a metro population around 2 million.

 

Let's get our facts straight: Playhouse Square is the largest performing arts center in the country (in terms of number of seats) after Lincoln Center in NYC.

 

I could've sworn Detroit or Houston had the "most theater seats" card in a concentrated area.

According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver_Performing_Arts_Complex), Denver's Performing Arts Complex is #2 with 10,800 seats...anyone have figures on Playhouse Square?  I definitely don't trust Wikipedia as a source for this kind of ranking, unless it's a strict list of venues...

I am not so sure I trust Wikipedia so much.....I had a an issue with St. Patty's day parade stats and wrote them to try to rectify the info....they told me that they weren't sure about the facts that they had (about rankings in parade size) but if I was sure about the info, to go ahead and change it right on the site!  That is the thing abot Wikipedia...anyone can modify a page if they want....interesting

^

^

^Yes...I guess if you are looking for college bars you are absolutely correct...but as far as everything else...Arena district and part of Short North ssssskkkkkkkiiiiiiiippppp>>>>>>>Easton.  I guess it is all in what you are looking for.  I have many friends here that think that Cleveland has much more to offer for the upper 20somethings and up.  But those are the people I know from Cbus.  Of course most people in this state think that their city is the best when it comes to nightlife...this is all opinion based anyway, so nobody can be "correct" on the matter.

According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver_Performing_Arts_Complex), Denver's Performing Arts Complex is #2 with 10,800 seats...anyone have figures on Playhouse Square?  I definitely don't trust Wikipedia as a source for this kind of ranking, unless it's a strict list of venues...

 

I'm rounding DOWN here and doing this from memory.  I inquired about this when I was trying to get a board meeting in Cleveland at PSC.  Although my total says 10k and change, I vaguely remember them saying there approximately 12k seats based on what the venue is used for.

 

Allen - 2,600

Ohio - 1,200

State - 3,100

Palace - 3,000

Hanna - 380

14 street - 280 (? this might be higher)

 

Total - 10,560

 

Edit:  I forgot about the idea center!  Maybe thats what the 12k equals!  :?

Wasn't there a Kennedy or something like that?  Small theater...I subbed on piano for Flanagan's Wake back in 1996 in something, down on a lower level...that was a very fun show.

 

OK, according to the Denver Center for Performing Arts, the Denver Performing Arts Complex has 11,260 seats in 11 venues in its 4-block site: http://www.denvercenter.org/faq/faq_list.cfm

 

I couldn't find any numbers for Playhouse Square on their own website, but according to Downtown Cleveland Partnership, its capacity is 10K: http://www.downtownclevelandpartnership.com/pr/PR020304.html

 

BTW, I think a 10K seat, six theater complex is absolutely fucking stellar - congrats and well done, especially considering the whole thing was nearly abandoned and razed.  I feel bad even raising the point - but I was curious, and wanted actual facts...anyone have anything definitive?  I can't find anything on the http://www.playhousesquare.org site...

 

When it comes to the three big cities in Ohio... I have experienced Columbus, and it it nice...but things (to me) seem to be very spread out and not as many places in such close proximity.  As for Cincy, I have never been there.  I can only go by what my friend from Cincy who I work with at the fire station has told me.  His opinion is that Cincy is ultra conservative in comparison, slower paced, and that there is no real main entertainment area..that there are some really nice places, but again, are more spread out.  I can only go by what he has told me and from what another friend told me that moved down that way for work. 

 

Uhh...Columbus' nightlife is MUCH more condensed than Cleveland's (which, as you said, is in Lakewood...skip skip...Ohio City...skip over bridge...Tremont...skip over valley...downtown...past ghetto...Coventry).  Columbus is much more continuous urbanistically and a bit more vibrant (due to the large student population and active Short North).

 

As for Cincinnati, it is decentralized, as the many nightlife districts are well within the neighborhoods, thus people don't have to leave their "hood" for nightlife; thus no centralized location where people can come congregate all over the metro.  It's a different animal than Columbus and Cleveland.  I just think Clevelanders take a little too much pride in their "districts" and compare and apple to an orange without realize that an apple isn't an orange.

I'm not sure about that. In Cleveland you have the mirage and the Metropolis right down the street from the bars in and around The Power House, then you have The Moda up W. 25th, then in a short drive you can be in the warehouse district, East Bank or E. 4th.

In Columbus on the other hand you have the Valleydale and Easton on the NE side then Longstreet waaaaaaaay over in downtown then the short North and other downtown clubs like The redzone. The short north is about as continuous an entertainment distict Columbus has. But all in all the distance between venues hasn't spoiled our nights when we went out in Columbus.

^

^

^Yes...I guess if you are looking for college bars you are absolutely correct...but as far as everything else...Arena district and part of Short North ssssskkkkkkkiiiiiiiippppp>>>>>>>Easton.  I guess it is all in what you are looking for.  I have many friends here that think that Cleveland has much more to offer for the upper 20somethings and up.  But those are the people I know from Cbus.  Of course most people in this state think that their city is the best when it comes to nightlife...this is all opinion based anyway, so nobody can be "correct" on the matter.

 

If you think Easton is nightlife...then God help ya.

 

Columbus nightlife stems linearly from the Brewery District to Old North Columbus, along High Street and parallel streets.  There are other hubs, of course, like Grandview Heights and some African-American and Latino clubs elsewhere in stripmalls (like all cities) but otherwise, it's condensed along the #2 bus route.

 

I'm not sure about that. In Cleveland you have the mirage and the Metropolis right down the street from the bars in and around The Power House, then you have The Moda up W. 25th, then in a short drive you can be in the warehouse district, East Bank or E. 4th.

In Columbus on the other hand you have the Valleydale and Easton on the NE side then Longstreet waaaaaaaay over in downtown then the short North and other downtown clubs like The redzone. The short north is about as continuous an entertainment distict Columbus has. But all in all the distance between venues hasn't spoiled our nights when we went out in Columbus.

 

The Valleydale is not a nightclub nor is Easton.  If we are specifically speaking about Afro-centric nightlife in Columbus, Red Zone, Opium Lounge, that Long Street crap, and Grown & Sexy are all downtown.  As far as dance clubs, the majority are along High Street (speaking about the University District; Short North; Brewery District; and anywhere south of City Center Mall in downtown).  The only significant outliner is The Colossium, and that's at the old Continent (re: bootleg, original Easton).

 

I was specifically addressing general nightlife to begin with, as the former poster cited Lakewood to Coventry as being "condensed" while including EASTON!? (a mall!??!) as nightlife for Columbus.  I might as well say "Legacy Village" for Cleveland, in that case.

Well I threw Easton in due to Gameworks. That being said I still believe Cleveland's "hubs" of entertainment are all centrally located and by no means sprawled out. You have The Flats West and East(or whats left of it), The oft mentioned Warehouse district, East Fourth Street and Gateway, and the West 25th street corridor. All those areas can be easily reached quickly by Walking (East bank-Warehouse distict, Gateway-E. 4th), Rapid train (W.-25th-Gateway/East 4th, Gateway-East bank/WHD) or driving (any district)

well hot damn, it must be a full moon i actually almost agree with our nortorious northern ohio & cleveland hater coldayman here. ha!

 

i think clev nightlife is exactly like cinci's, it's traditionally decentralized and nabe focused. i dk about cinci so much, but more and more is happening as far as new nightlife within downtown clev (ie., e4th) and that's great, but it still seems rather unfocused post east bank flats. maybe i'm off base here, but it seems different areas are fighting to be the new nightlife hub, which none may ever be.

 

if anything, it's columbus that has the most of the centralized instant all new made from scratch nightlife right downtown with the arena district tieing into the short north.

 

btw, the ranking of second for playhouse square is correct only if you are careful about what it means. it's rather subtle because it has nothing to do with total theater seating in a city. instead, it's the largest integrated concentration of theater seating, thus it's ranking behind number one lincoln center in nyc (thats why all the individual broadway theaters are not mentioned). the playhouse square organization are among the greatest of urban ohio's civic heros.  :clap:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Really, Cincinnati's nightlife is fairly concentrated.  There's Mt. Adams right up fthe hill from Main St. which is right across the river from Newport and Covington and right below Clifton/Coryville. Of course there are other stretches like Mt. Lookout, Hyde Park, and Roselawn, and Northside, but really most of greater Cincinnati's nightlife is fairly centralized too.

btw, the ranking of second for playhouse square is correct only if you are careful about what it means. it's rather subtle because it has nothing to do with total theater seating in a city. instead, it's the largest integrated concentration of theater seating, thus it's ranking behind number one lincoln center in nyc (thats why all the individual broadway theaters are not mentioned). the playhouse square organization are among the greatest of urban ohio's civic heros.

 

Well, the Denver Performing Arts Complex is a single complex, and appears to have more seats than Playhouse Square.  Again, I worship at the altar of Playhouse Square, but it appears that it's not "the largest integrated concentration of theater seating" either.  But honestly, who cares?  10K seats in five or six venues?  That's fantastic.

 

I was talking with my brother about Playhouse Square, and he told me some of the history, how the theaters were saved from demolition in part because a guy held a show in the lobby - a four-person vaudeville type thing with no set and just a piano.  It got folks into the buildings and made them realize what they really had there.  And I just had to think, god, I hope someone does that with the Emery...

 

And then I thought, what if someone put on that exact same show that saved the [Ohio?  State?  I forget which] in the Emery - tie into that Ohio heritage, get it in the news, and get folks into the building...

Cleveland has all these seats but are they being utilized as much as they are in NYC?

Cleveland has all these seats but are they being utilized as much as they are in NYC?

 

yes.  PSC IS AN ECONOMIC GIANT UNTO ITSELF

well hot damn, it must be a full moon i actually almost agree with our nortorious northern ohio & cleveland hater coldayman here. ha!

 

i think clev nightlife is exactly like cinci's, it's traditionally decentralized and nabe focused. i dk about cinci so much, but more and more is happening as far as new nightlife within downtown clev (ie., e4th) and that's great, but it still seems rather unfocused post east bank flats. maybe i'm off base here, but it seems different areas are fighting to be the new nightlife hub, which none may ever be.

 

if anything, it's columbus that has the most of the centralized instant all new made from scratch nightlife right downtown with the arena district tieing into the short north.

 

 

 

I agree that there is not continuous connection between all those districts, but you can easily say they are all downtown and I would not call them far apart or decentralized at all since all are near the Western side of Downtown.

btw, the ranking of second for playhouse square is correct only if you are careful about what it means. it's rather subtle because it has nothing to do with total theater seating in a city. instead, it's the largest integrated concentration of theater seating, thus it's ranking behind number one lincoln center in nyc (thats why all the individual broadway theaters are not mentioned). the playhouse square organization are among the greatest of urban ohio's civic heros.

 

Well, the Denver Performing Arts Complex is a single complex, and appears to have more seats than Playhouse Square.  Again, I worship at the altar of Playhouse Square, but it appears that it's not "the largest integrated concentration of theater seating" either.  But honestly, who cares?  10K seats in five or six venues?  That's fantastic.

 

I was talking with my brother about Playhouse Square, and he told me some of the history, how the theaters were saved from demolition in part because a guy held a show in the lobby - a four-person vaudeville type thing with no set and just a piano.  It got folks into the buildings and made them realize what they really had there.  And I just had to think, god, I hope someone does that with the Emery...

 

And then I thought, what if someone put on that exact same show that saved the [Ohio?  State?  I forget which] in the Emery - tie into that Ohio heritage, get it in the news, and get folks into the building...

 

re denver -- that may indeed be so today but it was certainly cleveland for a long long time. from denver's website i see it's a new complex and they even added a couple more theaters to it in the nineties which put it over the top seating size-wise. however, there is even more interesting civic boosting or should we say boasting going on in denver than cleveland. specifically, the denver website also says it is now is the largest single performance arts complex in the world. turns out that is not quite true -- see below:

 

lincoln center: 12,095 in 7 venues (1962)*

denver: 11, 260 seats in 11 performance venues (1972)

cleveland: 10,560 seats in 6 venues (minus idea center) (1932)

 

*there are actually 25 total venues scattered nearby (ie., jazz at lincoln center sites, etc.). i only counted those on the main campus. also, i did not count outdoor damrosch park on the main campus, but prob should have (up to 2600 seats).

 

ps -- as i suspected and also interesting, from googling around i saw that cleveland's ps is by far the highest rated for charity giving, which you might expect being so old:

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm/bay/search.summary/orgid/4342.htm

 

 

 

 

^Regardless of the numbers, super-props to Playhouse Square...doesn't really make any difference if there are 400 or 600 seats here or there or whatever...god bless Denver, and God bless Playhouse Square...

 

...and Cincinnati has something it can learn about preservation of theaters from our northern bretheren...I'd love to see "Jacques Brel Is Alive and Well and Living in Paris" in the Emery...

I thought we were trashing Miami in this thread?

 

Anyway, what's wrong with a neighborhood nightlife scene? When I go to New York, there isn't one place I go for everything. I head to the West Village, East Village, the LES, Williamsburg in Brooklyn. All of those include taking a subway to get there. Closer in distance, the same commute time. No biggie. I like different flavors.

 

Same thing in Boston. I head to Central Square in Cambridge to go to TT the Bear's or up north of Boston University to go to Paradise.

 

Anyway, in Cleveland, Tremont, the Warehouse District, etc. aren't really competing in my mind because they are catering to different people. IE, the artsy types aren't going to go bump and grind to X-Tina, unless they do so ironically. And anyone who says Clevelanders beat their chests about nightlife "especially since getting the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame" is a crackhead (or crazy person;). Seriously. I grew up here, and not once have I ever heard anyone say "DAMN! It's so much fun here! We're the best!" At the same time, since getting my driver's license, I haven't said "there's nothing to do!" either.

 

I like Columbus. I think it's a cool enough city. Not really geared toward my interests, but that's OK. Ann Arbor is way smaller, but I think that city is more my style. Columbus to me is more of a modern, Western-style city in the Midwest. Nothing wrong with that.

 

Anyway, back to Miami, I was under the impression, perhaps because of that Will Smith song from when I was like 6, that Miami was cool. My friend who lives in Florida has told me that Miami is a hellhole and Tampa is much nicer.

...our nortorious northern ohio & cleveland hater coldayman here. ha!

 

Hmmm...I've had better titles but that one is rather new.

and ColDayMan....I didn't think Easton was a great hotspot at all...but the people that took me there raved about the place....I can only judge from where I have been/taken to....hope you weren't offended  :-)

...our nortorious northern ohio & cleveland hater coldayman here. ha!

 

Hmmm...I've had better titles but that one is rather new.

 

ahh you took the bait. man i so wanted to give you a chance to get off the hook. intstead you do not deny it.  :laugh:

 

^Regardless of the numbers, super-props to Playhouse Square...doesn't really make any difference if there are 400 or 600 seats here or there or whatever...god bless Denver, and God bless Playhouse Square...

 

...and Cincinnati has something it can learn about preservation of theaters from our northern bretheren...I'd love to see "Jacques Brel Is Alive and Well and Living in Paris" in the Emery...

 

i could not agree more.

re numbers: sometimes it feels sooo geeky good just to get the numbers up there, eh?  :laugh:

 

 

and ColDayMan....I didn't think Easton was a great hotspot at all...but the people that took me there raved about the place....I can only judge from where I have been/taken to....hope you weren't offended   :-)

 

Your friends probably thought Adobe Gilas or the Funny Bone is a "great time out."  But then again, 80% of suburban America thinks that so why bother, eh?

 

...our nortorious northern ohio & cleveland hater coldayman here. ha!

 

Hmmm...I've had better titles but that one is rather new.

 

ahh you took the bait. man i so wanted to give you a chance to get off the hook. intstead you do not deny it.  :laugh:

 

 

What can I say?  NEO, I'm not.

and ColDayMan....I didn't think Easton was a great hotspot at all...but the people that took me there raved about the place....I can only judge from where I have been/taken to....hope you weren't offended  :-)

 

Your friends probably thought Adobe Gilas or the Funny Bone is a "great time out."  But then again, 80% of suburban America thinks that so why bother, eh?

 

...our nortorious northern ohio & cleveland hater coldayman here. ha!

 

Hmmm...I've had better titles but that one is rather new.

 

ahh you took the bait. man i so wanted to give you a chance to get off the hook. intstead you do not deny it.  :laugh:

 

 

What can I say?  NEO, I'm not.

 

nwo you are not either.

 

picking on poor deschler, for shame!  :laugh:

 

Well, NWO is like...Bowling Green.

 

Eww.

bgsu campus may not be all that, but eww is reserved for sinclair.

Sinclair is atleast a community college, meaning auto-dependant.