Posted June 6, 200619 yr I was on CNN.com and they were talking on how some people who lives in rural areas, budget's has doubled with the high price of gas. Some up too $720 a month. :O Could that lead to Ohio metro's growing in population just because the cost of living in rural area's is not worth it anymore?
June 6, 200619 yr $720/month on gas? They're driving what, 15K miles/month? Or was that their entire budget, with heating and groceries?
June 6, 200619 yr Only gas. They had to cut back on other things too. I think the commute was 90 miles every day and their daughter drove.
June 6, 200619 yr ^ If you're going to drive 45 miles everyday, just move. It makes no sense to live so ridiculously far away from your job.
June 6, 200619 yr Let's say gas costs $2.75/gallon (from here). $720 buys you 262 gallons of gas. Let's say you're getting 25 mpg - that will give you 6,550 miles. 30 days in a month, that's 218 miles per day. So fine, a 90 mile commute - does that mean the daughter commutes 128 miles/day? And, by the way, that's assuming they drive that much seven days a week... I have no doubt that higher gas prices are impacting folks in rural areas - but those numbers are preposterous...
June 7, 200619 yr I have no doubt that higher gas prices are impacting folks in rural areas - but those numbers are preposterous... I have a feeling this might include farmers, and all the gas their tractors, combines, etc. consume.
June 7, 200619 yr Are you angry with me Riverviewer? I'm thinking about the actual farming process, driving up and down the fields all day, that has to consume a significant amount of gas.
June 7, 200619 yr You freak me out with the stalking thing at the Cincinnati meet, but no, not angry - just disturbed. Unusualfire said they commuted 90 miles a day. Farmers plow and cut and rake and bale and harvest on tractors - but they don't commute 90 miles on tractors. Like I said, I'm not arguing that farmers aren't hurt by higher fuel prices, or that rural families are impacted, or anything like that. I'm just saying whoever said they spent $720/month on gas is full of shit, that's all.
June 7, 200619 yr ^I doubt any farmer commutes 90 miles to the fields, but perhaps through the fields. If you take a piece of land which is one mile square, for example, and drive a tractor or whatever up and down the field, completely covering it, let's say taking 50 ft. wide swipes as it goes, you end up traveling something like 105 miles to cover this square of land. Not to mention I doubt tractors or heavy farm equipment get 25 MPG. Plus you're assuming one vehicle. $720 is a lot, I grant you, but I don't find the number that unreasonable. But if it's not referring to farm equipment and these people are extreme commuters (which I believe is covered in another thread, probably in Transportation), it boggles me the extent to which people dysfunctionally arrange their finances to suit their lifestyle. To each their own.
June 7, 200619 yr ^I doubt any farmer commutes 90 miles to the fields, but perhaps through the fields. If you take a piece of land which is one mile square, for example, and drive a tractor or whatever up and down the field, completely covering it, let's say taking 50 ft. wide swipes as it goes, you end up traveling something like 105 miles to cover this square of land. Not to mention I doubt tractors or heavy farm equipment get 25 MPG Not to sound snarky, but when farmers plow a field, they call that "plowing" - not "commuting". And MPG doesn't apply to tractors - from what I remember, they don't relaly measure miles, they measure hours of operation. I'm just saying, if they're extreme commuters, then you're talking about more like 275-300 miles per day - not 90 miles per day.
June 7, 200619 yr You freak me out with the stalking thing at the Cincinnati meet, but no, not angry - just disturbed. Unusualfire said they commuted 90 miles a day. Farmers plow and cut and rake and bale and harvest on tractors - but they don't commute 90 miles on tractors. Like I said, I'm not arguing that farmers aren't hurt by higher fuel prices, or that rural families are impacted, or anything like that. I'm just saying whoever said they spent $720/month on gas is full of shit, that's all. Ah, got ya. However, I wouldn't be surprised if a farmer had fields 90 miles away, but this doesn't mean he would be commuting/moving his equipment there everyday. And really, don't be disturbed
June 7, 200619 yr Not to sound snarky, but when farmers plow a field, they call that "plowing" - not "commuting". And MPG doesn't apply to tractors - from what I remember, they don't relaly measure miles, they measure hours of operation. Call it plowing, commuting, hours of operation-it's all semantics. We're talking about gas consumption. Gas prices go up, people who rely on gas powered vehicles or equipment feel the pinch. Since I don't know what exactly they were referring to on cnn.com (equipment useage or commuting to and from work-maybe unusualfire can shed some light), I can't speak to the exact nature how the gas is being used. And yes, it seems dumb to me to live so much of your life behind the wheel. I'm just saying, if they're extreme commuters, then you're talking about more like 275-300 miles per day - not 90 miles per day. "Extreme commuters" who travel more than 90 minutes to work, one way, are the fastest-growing group of commuters, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. This is from the first article in the Extreme Commuting Thread. http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=8792.0 So 90 minutes at 60 MPH each way would give you 180 miles per day. I think I probably mislabeled them as "Extreme Commuters", but it doesn't necessarily seem like the threshold for the "Extreme Commuter" title is quite 275 miles per day.
June 7, 200619 yr Call it plowing, commuting, hours of operation-it's all semantics. Not really. Hours of Operation is a business expense, and any loss can be written off on the IRS 1040. Commuting 90 miles a day--that's just plain dumb, and I don't feel sorry for anyone who does that. American Dream-atcha!
June 7, 200619 yr She drives her Pontiac Grand Am from Pamona to the Farm Bureau in Des Moines every day. Google maps calls that 37.5 miles each way, but we'll trust her number of 45 miles. A 1994 Grand Am gets 29 mpg highway, which is basically what this drive is. 22 working days in a month, so at $2.75 (which is more than they show her paying in the clip - she's paying $2.659 in the story), that works out to $187.76. (90m * 22d / 29mpg * $2.75) He drives his Cavelier 70 miles round-trip, from Pamona to a plumbing gig in Des Moines. I guess riding in together is impossible? But, with a teenager and an 11 year old looking son, maybe his hours are too long. Anyway, a 1998 Cavalier gets 29 mpg highway. Say he has a 6 day work week, that's 26 round trips, so that works out to $172.59/month. (70m * 26d / 29mpg * $2.75) The daughter drives a Sunfire 30 miles every day. A 1995 Sunfire gets 31 mpg highway, and let's say she does her driving 6 days/week as well, with school activities or whatever. That's 26 days at 30 miles/day, so that works out to $69.19. (30m * 26d / 31mpg * $2.75) Total cost of gas required for commuting: $429.54. Someone in that story is a liar - might be the editor, might be the family, but someone's making shit up, or else the daughter's putting smokes and beer on that gas card and nobody's caught on yet. I'm just saying, if they're extreme commuters, then you're talking about more like 275-300 miles per day - not 90 miles per day. "Extreme commuters" who travel more than 90 minutes to work, one way, are the fastest-growing group of commuters, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. This is from the first article in the Extreme Commuting Thread. http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=8792.0 So 90 minutes at 60 MPH each way would give you 180 miles per day. I think I probably mislabeled them as "Extreme Commuters", but it doesn't necessarily seem like the threshold for the "Extreme Commuter" title is quite 275 miles per day. You misunderstood my point, probably because it was utterly unclear...I was just saying, 90 miles/day doesn't add up to $720; and watching the story, 90 + 70 + 30 miles/day doesn't add up to a $720 bill...unless maybe they didn't pay last month's bill and it's included?
June 7, 200619 yr ^maybe they're just fudging the numbers for a mileage deduction on their taxes. Shocking! :wink: I'm just thrilled I don't have to make that horrific commute. Back to unusualfire's original question-I doubt that gas prices would cause much of a migration back to the urban areas from the farmlands. I'm guessing people who live out that far enjoy the rural lifestyle and have made a conscious decision to accept the hardships (long commutes, larger amounts of property to maintain, etc.) to gain the benefits (space to do what you want, independence from crowded cities, being surrounded by nature, whatever). Not my cup of tea really, but I'm guessing that rural populations won't change hardly at all due to fuel costs.
June 7, 200619 yr Sorry I went all anal on that...just one of my major pet peeves - journalists have no frickin' clue how to deal with numbers, how to explain them, or how to reality-check them... CornerCurve, I'd add to your point that sprawl is also helping alleviate the issue for many folks...so many new office parks are built outside the center city (Sharonville in Cincinnati, Polaris in Columbus, Independence in Cleveland) that people can live in rural areas and still be gainfully employed with long commutes, but not insane commutes. 45 minutes from Mt. Orab to Loveland, say, instead of an hour plus to downtown Cincinnati...and that's only going to continue.
June 7, 200619 yr Back to unusualfire's original question-I doubt that gas prices would cause much of a migration back to the urban areas from the farmlands. I'm guessing people who live out that far enjoy the rural lifestyle and have made a conscious decision to accept the hardships (long commutes, larger amounts of property to maintain, etc.) to gain the benefits (space to do what you want, independence from crowded cities, being surrounded by nature, whatever). Not my cup of tea really, but I'm guessing that rural populations won't change hardly at all due to fuel costs. My suspicion is there is a desire for community involved...to be close to family and freinds and neighbors. The people doing these long commutes don't want to leave the communities in which they grew up or they have multi-generational ties to. Good roads and highways makes long distance commuting to jobs possible, while sill living in (and having ones kids grow up in) the places they grew up in. Also they might be commuting from their rural small town or farm to a job in the next county or to a place in the county seat, which might be at the other end of the county from them, not necessarily to Cincinnati or Dayton. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ The issue of high oil prices impacting ag production, which is Inks comment, is a big issue if this peak oil thing is coming about. Ag certain is dependent on oil/gas for running farm machinery and getting crops to market, but maybe for fertilizers too?
June 7, 200619 yr Ink, you name me a farmer who commutes 90 miles to his frickin' fields. Including or excluding OSU "Ag-extension" folks (Columbus/Wooster)?
June 7, 200619 yr "Ink, you name me a farmer that commutes 90 miles to his fields..." Granted, there are fewer full time farmers than there used to be, but for the record the average farmer farms 3000 acres of land and owns a million dollars of equipment. I would assume that the 3000 acres are not necessarily contiguous, and may be scattered about the county. The farmer doesn't necessarily own all the land, but leases it. Some active farmers may live in nice homes in suburbs and commute to work. Farmers drive a lot of miles. On the flip side, families living in old farm houses don't necessarily farm the land they own, but lease it to active farmers. These folks may commute to metro areas for jobs and shopping.
June 7, 200619 yr Yes, yes, and yes, I understand, farmers drive too. My grandparents lease their fields to a farmer who does a lot of places all over town. But 90 miles commuting every single day? There's no way. There's no way times three. Besides which, as we've seen, 90 miles plus 70 miles plus 30 miles doesn't come close to $720/month. If someone has an example of a farmer who does drive 90 miles back and forth to his fields every day, I'm all ears - but farming is such a low-margin business, you have to save money every way you turn to make a living; and the hours required are so long that blowing two hours in the car every day is even less realistic than it is for an office job. Driving 90 miles a few times a year? Sure. Driving 90 miles once a week? Perhaps. But every day? Honestly?
June 7, 200619 yr I think the story said he traded in his old car that was getting 12 miles a gallon. then he got another car that was not as bad. It does make you wonder if they charged milk chips and other items on that gas card. I know i did when i used to have one..lol
June 8, 200619 yr Yes, yes, and yes, I understand, farmers drive too. My grandparents lease their fields to a farmer who does a lot of places all over town. But 90 miles commuting every single day? There's no way. There's no way times three. Besides which, as we've seen, 90 miles plus 70 miles plus 30 miles doesn't come close to $720/month. If someone has an example of a farmer who does drive 90 miles back and forth to his fields every day, I'm all ears - but farming is such a low-margin business, you have to save money every way you turn to make a living; and the hours required are so long that blowing two hours in the car every day is even less realistic than it is for an office job. Driving 90 miles a few times a year? Sure. Driving 90 miles once a week? Perhaps. But every day? Honestly? I knew a guy, who worked for OSU (ag extension) who lived north of Delaware and drove out to Lima/Findley where OSU was growing grain crops (of some sort). How often he did that roadie, I don't recall if I ever knew, but I do remember him mentioning how he had to bounce about North Central Ohio (this was about 10 years ago)
June 9, 200619 yr My father commutes about 60-70 miles round-trip 5 days a week from one rural area to another (Norwalk to Mansfield). It can get expensive. The only reason he does commute was because he transferred to GM (about 30 miles away) from Delphi (about 12 miles away). And given Delphi's uncertain future, the commute is well worth it.
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