Yeah Campus Partners probably didn't go about things the right way, based on what everyone says, but... it's too late! Complaining about it forever won't bring back those businesses and buildings.

 

these buildings may be lost, but if nobody stands up to them, then nothing will stop them from doing more damage. and they want to

The original plan was to bring their brand of redevelopment to North Campus after they were done with South Campus.

By the way, the reason the buildings were scary was because Campus Partners owned them, and would not rent them out.  One way to legally be able to call the area blighted is to have a high percent of vacant storefronts, so that scary part of town was brought to you by Campus Partners.

 

 

 

When I came to Ohio State in 1994 south campus was still happening.  I would have spent more time down there if I'd known it would be the last year before Campus Parteners got started.  We used to go to Maxwell's, Mean Mr. Mustards, Sloopys (Ski Club!), B.K. Flyers, Coed's, The Pit (Edge), Jailhouse, notal's (ah $.25 Natty Lights), etc without being harrassed about underage drinking.  Before CP the cops seemed to turn a blind eye to that kind of stuff as long as you weren't out of control.

inner city Columbus is more "urban" overall than Cleveland

 

cdm you are a character! columbus and dayton should put you on the payroll.

How so?  Inner-city Columbus IS more urban than inner-city Cleveland, cohesively.  Of course the city of Columbus overall isn't nearly as urban as the city of Cleveland but I meant "central core" meaning of "inner-city."

Urban vs. not-urban, part II.

I don't want to involve myself in the debate, but I am curious:  what exactly is the definition of "urban" being used here?

^good question

We apparently have different definitions of urban.  When I think of "urban," I think of walkability & structural-density.  Others think pedestrian life, some think transit (though that one is faulty), others think just a downtown area.  Thus, the "urban" definition is faulty but generally, it means "city-like."  Interpret that however you'd like.

that is exactly my issue as well, what exactly are the definitions? i guess we all have differing point of views of what urban is. i probably couldnt totally say very well what my view of ohio urban is either. i'll try--- i would also add to cdm's definition of urban varied social economic status, density and cultural variety, or at least that is a healthy urban ideal. 

 

i'm just asking that these terms not be thrown around sooo loosely. or if you want to use a broad term like urban (and ghetto or whatev like that) a little upfront definition in the future, whatever definition you choose it to be, is appreciated. especially since i think the one thing we do all agree on 100% is that we are all coming at it from differing points of view.

 

let's make an effort try to define our terms as the saying goes, at least for hotpoint issues. capice?

 

[steps off soapbox....]

 

 

 

 

 

 

ps---back on topic. i looked back in the archives for gateway center and campus stuff and all i came up with is one older photo of an empty lot. the comments above are interesting, i am looking forward to a current photo tour of what is going on there from somebody!

 

Well, one would understand what one means of urban by the context in which we use it.  I don't feel I have to clarify what "urban" is as neither do you.  It's just a simple means of "do you believe it's urban or not" from a one-point perspective.  Ditto with ghetto, gentrification, etc.  What you say I may not agree with and vice-versa but hey, that's life ;).

otoh, it would be nice to make an effort exactly because we all have differing views of those terms. language does not have to be 100% totally contextual (ie., water=h2o -- so no disagreement). i think it would not hurt anyone to try to make an effort in that direction. if it cannot be done, at least your own perspective is made clear.

 

this has nothing to do with whether terms are agreed upon, just that they are clarified a bit.

 

for example, you put up photos of rather nice housing stock and called it "ghetto" and many of us were confused. now ghetto can mean anything from a current flip pop culture remark to dire, abject poverty and hopeless crime-ridden despair. so there was so much disconnect between word and image, context was lost and it was downright confusing.

 

i potentially did the same thing. i put up a thread called elegiac nyc. well what does that mean? it was just shots of the city. but i stated they were taken one week before 9/11. context clarified.

 

that is all it took!

 

does that make sense? yes of course anyone can do whatev the hey they like, but that is the road to more totally unessesary confusion and misunderstanding.

 

i dk, maybe i'm asking too much of people? maybe so.

 

My attempt:

 

Urban [úrbən] adj 1. Of or pertaining to an environment possessing the following qualities:

-Zero lot line construction, including the use of party walls

-Vertically mixed landuse patterns including residences, places of employment, and supporting retail

-Proximate access to rail or other public transit options

-Highly developed and well utilized public realm including, but not limited to, sidewalks, plazas, and public parks

-A socio-economically diverse population

 

2. The degree to which an environment possesses the qualities of being urban

[<L urbanis.]

otoh, it would be nice to make an effort exactly because we all have differing views of those terms. language does not have to be 100% totally contextual (ie., water=h2o -- so no disagreement). i think it would not hurt anyone to try to make an effort in that direction. if it cannot be done, at least your own perspective is made clear.

 

this has nothing to do with whether terms are agreed upon, just that they are clarified a bit.

 

for example, you put up photos of rather nice housing stock and called it "ghetto" and many of us were confused. now ghetto can mean anything from a current flip pop culture remark to dire, abject poverty and hopeless crime-ridden despair. so there was so much disconnect between word and image, context was lost and it was downright confusing.

 

i potentially did the same thing. i put up a thread called elegiac nyc. well what does that mean? it was just shots of the city. but i stated they were taken one week before 9/11. context clarified.

 

that is all it took!

 

does that make sense? yes of course anyone can do whatev the hey they like, but that is the road to more totally unessesary confusion and misunderstanding.

 

i dk, maybe i'm asking too much of people? maybe so.

 

 

I generally go on assumptions and when assumptions are questioned, then I answer (which is the purpose of discussion).  If people question if the photos are ghetto (or better yet, intrigued), then I explain why they are ghetto and that starts discussion which makes this forum that much more interesting.  Sometimes mrnyc, confusion is what makes things like this forum fun.

Can't someone just call something "ghetto" and leave it at that?  Especially when it's not a socioeconomic study, it's a photo thread!?!

 

Sheesh.

Well someone else is going to have to contribute the Gateway construction photos, because OH MY GOD... I'm an IDIOT.  I went all over campus taking photos today, of the many many construction sites and projects, and then I went and took several pics of the Gateway thing, and then I started to head home but decided to try ONE LAST SHOT, and at that point I tripped over a concrete block and did a head over heels flip, landed in some damp mulch, and now my camera doesn't work.  It won't even turn on.  It was already "kinda" broken and obsolete, so I guess I am in the market for a new one.  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:

I hope you are OK SarahBeth!!!!

Thanks for trying.

Well, how does it look.  For all of my built up hostility, I still hope the end result is a spectacular success.

(still doubt it though)

But doesn't every mall in Ohio have bus lines?

 

What bus line services Polaris?

And while I'm at it.....

Has anyone from the OSU contingent here taken an Urban (insert OSU major of choice) class?

 

And if not, I do highly recomend taking one!

 

P.S. thanks for thinking of an OSU meet [glow=red,2,300]after[/glow] I left C-bus for Baton Rouge for Winter/Spring.

I believe there is a bus that goes to Polaris (or near it) but I'm not sure (I don't ever take the bus to any sort of mall in Columbus except for, of course, City Center).  I'm not taking an urban class but I might as well (that's what landscape architecture is partly about).

I'm certain there is a bus that goes to Polaris, though I have no idea which one.  I've just seen the signs for the bus stops.

 

If you want a mall that is not serviced by a bus, you can go to the Fairfield Commons mall in Beavercreek (Dayton).

there is an express bus that goes twice in the a.m. and once in the p.m. from downtown and the bank one bullshit plaza across the street from the mall... as fas as i'm aware that's the only one.

so to get to the mall you would have to go at like 8am then stay until 5 i think it is. plus you have to walk across the polaris big street thing, which has no sidewalks. and is nearly death to pedestrians. the fuckers in city hall let them go against their own law requiring sidewalks, because the developer offered wider roads instead.

 

 

gateway center news:

 

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

CONSTRUCTION ZONE

Campus Partners’ Gateway project gains retail tenants, apartments

Monday, January 24, 2005

Mike Pramik

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

Campus Partners said it has leased 40 percent of the retail space at the South Campus Gateway project and has begun pitching its apartments to Ohio State University law students.  An Aug. 1 opening is being projected for Gateway, the $150 million development between 9th and Chittenden avenues along High Street.

 

Confirmed tenants include Barnes & Noble, Finish Line, Happy Greek Gateway restaurant and Panera.  An eight-screen theater will be operated by the managers of Drexel and Arena Grand theaters.  Most of Gateway’s apartments are in a building on the west side of High Street near Ohio State University’s law school.  It will include 21 studio, 35 one-bedroom and 35 two-bedroom units.  That building also will house the Buckeye Barrister Club, a gathering place for the law-school community.

 

A building across the street, between Chittenden and E. 11 th avenues, will have seven studios, 30 one-bedroom and 30 two-bedroom apartments.  Two buildings on either side of a new parking garage will each offer six one-bedroom flats; six two-story, three-bedroom townhouses; and one three-story, three-bedroom apartment.

 

Full article at http://www.dispatch.com/business-story.php?story=dispatch/2005/01/24/20050124-C6-00.html&rfr=nwsl

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

 

Finish Line?  A SHOE STORE?  wtf!

Is there any word when "character" will be installed?

 

Just wondering.

 

I bet that most of the new businesses will be closed by 10 each night

 

Again I ask, was it worth 10 years and $150 million dollars.  Especially since the university, which pitched in the most money, raised tution every year, sometimes as much as 30%?

I still say it's too early to tell. But Happy Greek is going in there? Kick butt.

 

hell no.

 

I'm sure the happy Greek will have no where near as good gyro's as the grumpy Greek who owned Greek Village.

 

Do the other Buckeye's online remeber him?  He was the guy who would not serve you if you asked for a "JY-RO" you had to ask for a "Yee-RO"

That is how its pronounced (with a bit of a h in front- hyee-RO). I go into JY-ro places and get strange looks when I pronounce it right.

 

Are there any pics of what was destroyed lying about?

I searched for pictures of High street on thelantern.com and I came across a letter I wrote to the editor back in the year 2000.  I guess I haven't really changed my tune.

 

This was in response to an article detailing how campus partners set out with the zoning commision to levy fines on homeowners in the campus area, so many fines that they would simply turn the property over to the city.

 

Still looking for pics

 

The Lantern ran a guest column on Oct. 18 and attached to it the title “Campus Partners sets the record straight about code enforcement.”

My question to the journalist who wrote that headline is, “Do you live anywhere near the Ohio State campus?”

If you did, you would realize the single largest violator of city codes is Campus Partners and the buildings they own on south campus!

Steve Sterrett talks about the “broken glass” theory of crime prevention. If he and Campus Partners believed that, they would have at least tried to repair or cover all of the broken windows and urine-soaked doorways that they own.

This spring it will be six years since Campus Partners bought the smoldering remains of Papa Joes and turned it into an empty gravel lot. Since then they have used millions of dollars of university money and government connections like Liquor Patrol to swindle south campus business owners out of their livelihoods.

They have nothing to show for it. In fact they have actually held up the natural development of the area. The whole point of the Gateway Project was the theory that campus is so bad that no businesses would want to invest here.

The front page of the same issue of the Lantern contradicts this theory.

It spoke of all of the new restaurants that were coming into the area, without bulldozing any buildings. In addition to what is happening on north campus, with the new nightclubs and eateries, all of campus could be enjoying a renaissance.

But who wants to invest in a business that will be taken by eminent domain?

In a year when the university claims it desperately needs a 20 percent raise in tuition, they must need money bad.

Instead of spending millions of more dollars to force out the remaining businesses and more to help build a palace to the Gap and Starbucks, sell each plot to responsible parties. This way the university can still have a major say in the development of the area. The local owners can be finally left alone. The university can recoup the money they wasted.

And finally, south campus does not have to look like the scary ghost town the Campus Partners has slum landlorded over for nearly five years.

Let me make this point again. If Campus Partners believed in a “broken glass” theory of crime prevention, then the way they have let the buildings they own deteriorate to such a degree invites crime into the area.

Campus Partners is part of the problem, not the solution!

 

I'm sure the happy Greek will have no where near as good gyro's as the grumpy Greek who owned Greek Village.

 

Do the other Buckeye's online remeber him? He was the guy who would not serve you if you asked for a "JY-RO" you had to ask for a "Yee-RO"

 

I wouldn't know.  I've never had a gyro nor heard of either restaurant mentioned above.

^ You've never had a gyro?  What the hell is wrong with you, son?

Here's an article I'm sure those that are opposed to the Gateway project will love... :wink:

 

 

City OKs extra $2 million for Campus Partners

By Mark Ferenchik

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

Thanks to cost overruns, including $200,000 in unanticipated city-inspection charges, Columbus is spending $2 million more than planned to pay for public improvements at Campus Partners’ South Campus Gateway project.

 

The city’s Development Department pointed out other overruns: $500,000 for new waterlines and to rebuild N. High Street; $300,000 for unanticipated sewer improvements; $500,000 to bury utilities; and $500,000 to take care of "unforeseen field conditions,’’ such as a buried trolley track.

 

The cost for the retail, office and housing development along N. High Street between 9th and Chittenden avenues has increased from a projected $121 million in 1999 to $151 million.

 

More at http://www.dispatch.com 

I have a bad feeling, and I hope I am wrong, but is Campus Partners going to market this whole development to the people who will fill the massive garage rather than the students in the surrounding area?

 

I know I suffer from Campus Partners paranoia, but it seems like they will be inviting people to drive in, have dinner at one of the expensive restaurants (Happy Greek in the short north is pricy) see a movie, and then drive home.

Or this whole development is for the few hundred law students, not for thousands of undergrads.

 

Easton on High Street.  Plastic Fantastic Columbus Ohio!

 

So, with the remaining 60% left to fill what would make it a benefit to the people in the surrounding area?

I don't think many local businesses will want to work with Campus Partners, but if they did what would be good there?

Record store?  Probably a bank, grocery store (and not wild oats, Kroger)

 

What would make it site specific, something that could only be on the OSU South Campus and would not fit anywhere else.

 

Just looking for ideas...(and not discussions of the definition of ghetto)

 

 

 

Unfortunately, many of the types of shops that are useful to students (used book/record stores, vintage clothing, cheap ethnic eats, liquor store, etc.) won't be able to make rent in new, relatively upscale buildings.  They'll be pretty much limited to chains to fill this thing.  That pretty much rules out anything that would be truly unique to South Campus.

I thought the garage would be more for the residential units being built, given that parking off campus is at a premium as it is. I don't think many people will be driving to the South Campus Gateway, since those that would drive to go out to dinner and see a movie would be more likely to do that at Easton, Sawmill, or elsewhere in the suburbs, or would go downtown to the Arena District, Grandview or Bexley if they want to see something at Drexel.

 

As far as potential suitors go for the space still up for lease in the Gateway, I personally would love to see a full-service grocery store (definitely not Wild Oats, man that place makes me want to barf just walking into it!). I wouldn't mind seeing Kroger vacate its current spot off High and King and relocate to the Gateway Center, leaving the current plot of land open for redevelopment that would clear the massive building an ajoining surface lot. I don't think another record store or bank would be all that necessary, since there are already pleanty all along High St. Some clothing retailers would be nice, ranging from Plato's Closet to Aeropostale. Furniture is hard to find close to campus as well, but if one were to locate in the Gateway, it would have to be somewhat cheap, maybe a condensed ValuCity Furniture? Shops not currently found very close to campus, like an ice cream parlor (UDF doesn't count) or a floral store could fit well also.

As far as potential suitors go for the space still up for lease in the Gateway, I personally would love to see a full-service grocery store (definitely not Wild Oats, man that place makes me want to barf just walking into it!). I wouldn't mind seeing Kroger vacate its current spot off High and King and relocate to the Gateway Center....

 

Nooo!  Not my ghetto Kroger!

Unfortunately, many of the types of shops that are useful to students (used book/record stores, vintage clothing, cheap ethnic eats, liquor store, etc.) won't be able to make rent in new, relatively upscale buildings.

 

The thing is, those already exist en masse all along High St. from the Short North to Clintonville. There are tons of Ethiopian, Indian, Greek, Thai, and Chinese restaurants dotting High. SBX, Buckeye Books, Used Kids, Johnny Go's, Roots etc. round out the used books/records stores, and lord knows North High does not need more liquor stores. Not to mention all the tatoo parlors, "bowl stores" and other eclectic shops that already exist. If anything, the Campus Gateway will be the odd one out around campus.

Nooo!  Not my ghetto Kroger!

 

lol, yes, that's the one I'm talking about! We would always crack about going over to "Kroghetto" when I was in the dorms (the fact was the most of the people in the dorm wouldn't even venture to that Kroger).

I thought the garage would be more for the residential units being built, given that parking off campus is at a premium as it is. I don't think many people will be driving to the South Campus Gateway, since those that would drive to go out to dinner and see a movie would be more likely to do that at Easton, Sawmill, or elsewhere in the suburbs, or would go downtown to the Arena District, Grandview or Bexley if they want to see something at Drexel.

 

 

Well, there are 190 apartments and 1200 parking spots so my worry is still there

 

Unfortunately, many of the types of shops that are useful to students (used book/record stores, vintage clothing, cheap ethnic eats, liquor store, etc.) won't be able to make rent in new, relatively upscale buildings.

 

The thing is, those already exist en masse all along High St. from the Short North to Clintonville. There are tons of Ethiopian, Indian, Greek, Thai, and Chinese restaurants dotting High. SBX, Buckeye Books, Used Kids, Johnny Go's, Roots etc. round out the used books/records stores, and lord knows North High does not need more liquor stores. Not to mention all the tatoo parlors, "bowl stores" and other eclectic shops that already exist. If anything, the Campus Gateway will be the odd one out around campus.

 

Well, that is the whole point of a neighborhood center, places you can go near your home for the necessities, and a few places that are unique to the area.  The old South Campus was like that.  We had our own BW-3's, great pizza, fun bars, music venues, etc.  We also had Papa Joes, wich was as popular on football Saturdays as Varsity Club

 

Driving has become a necessity for residents of South Campus since CP took over.

 

I still have hope for the Gateway center to be a neighborhood center, but I am not sure if it will just be a campus playground for people from Upper Arlington.

Hmmm...with 190 apartments and 1,200 parking spaces, attracting people from outside the campus area could be a distinct possibility. But then again, look at the Kroger on High and King. It has a swath of surface parking for a neighborhood grocery store. But besides the point, I'd imagine they hope to lure some patrons from outside the immediate campus area with that many parking spots.

 

Living in Upper Arlington though, I know it won't be an attraction for people in this area. Half the population is in their 80s, and their idea of a night on the town is going to Lazarus at Kingsdale at 3PM followed by the early bird's special at MCL Cafeteria at 4. And for teens in this area, they are quite content with their soccer moms driving them out to Tuttle Mall. The soccer moms themselves now have the Shops at Lane Avenue for their shopping needs also. Granted, many of the people that work at the University live in Upper Arlington, but most of these people would have no interest in going to the campus area to catch dinner and a movie when there are many other places that cater to their age demographic that are more convenient.

A Kroger in that South Campus BS would be perfect.  I'm surprised it isn't already part of it (or somehow infused; re: destroy the Taco Bell/7-11).  That would easily be the top-selling Kroger in the city if done.

Nooo! Not my ghetto Kroger!

 

lol, yes, that's the one I'm talking about! We would always crack about going over to "Kroghetto" when I was in the dorms (the fact was the most of the people in the dorm wouldn't even venture to that Kroger).

 

I have fond memories of that Kroger.  That and the Big Bear at Neil and Buttles is where I always used to shop.  And I had to haul my recycling down to that Kroger too.

 

Ah, memories....

That Kroger is awful - It has no selection of anything, it's tiny!  They don't even have a cosmetics section (I know you males don't care, but most grocery stores do have cosmetics!)  The produce is dismal, the deli is gross.  The lines are always long, there are only about 6 checkouts (usually only 2 or 3 are open) and 4 self-checkouts - and during peak times they close all the self-checkouts!  The Giant Eagle in Clintonville is the next closest grocery store, & much nicer, but too far to walk to, & a longer bus ride than I usually feel like planning for.  I think a new grocery store would be great in Gateway but I doubt that idea is "flashy" enough for the developers.

Well, SarahBeth, and anyone else at OSU for that matter, I have this question

 

If you were the project manager starting tomorrow, what would you do to fill in the rest of the project?

What would you do to make it specific for South Campus?

well, off the top of my head, I would like to see something like Rag-o-Rama move in there, and the aforementioned decent grocery store.  A restaurant or coffee shop that stays open 24 hours would be great also, to allow more options besides just Steak & Shake and McDonald's.  I would also like to see the return of Skyline :-( but I doubt that would happen.

 

maybe a video-rental store? & a graeters...

The thing is, with Columbus relaxing attitudes, we don't need to take pictures of our progressive projects. It goes without saying ;) (*cocky Columbusite rants*).

 

Maybe I could take a light-rail train there? Oh wait, I can't -- it's COWLUMBUS! :finger:

 

KJP

 

HEY NOW, cota keeps trying to get that up and goin and then all the poor folks bitch wine about it raising there bus fairs and it dies out. as for the universiy gateway project under construction right now, thats only one phase, it is planed to go all the way up to high & lane ave. so chill out and wait for the whole thing to be done. would you rather of them tore down the whole university district on high street just to make you happy? now im not defending the campus fuck-partners but at least give them a chance to do something right (MAYBE) for a change, and it wont look like easton because wexner isent buliding it. and if you dont know who that is then you have no place to be talking about columbus development projects.

well, off the top of my head, I would like to see something like Rag-o-Rama move in there, and the aforementioned decent grocery store. A restaurant or coffee shop that stays open 24 hours would be great also, to allow more options besides just Steak & Shake and McDonald's. I would also like to see the return of Skyline :-( but I doubt that would happen.

 

maybe a video-rental store? & a graeters...

 

those are all planned in the later phase, how do i know, my father is working on the project. not as a designer but as a city water planning manager. so he knows what all is comming up after this part. because his ass has to work the overtime to shut down the water and field the complaints from all the resdents when they find out they cant fush the barf-filled toilet at 2am.

^Dude, chill...read the forum a while before you shoot off blindly at guys who know more about development than a lot of urban planners do...KJP was kidding about Columbus...