13 hours ago, Ineffable_Matt said:

I’m pretty sure that the offshore location has the best (steadiest) winds and therefore be the most cost effective.

According to the article, the study in NY said that the offshore wind was only 10% higher than the onshore wind, and therefore the 400x cost to build offshore couldn't be justified.  Building on a breakwall might reduce construction and maintenance costs and still get some higher-wind advantage.

 

2 minutes ago, GISguy said:

I grew up in WNY and go home often, there are a decent amount of "no turbines on the lake" signs and with that I wouldn't trust the Jamestown Post Journal or Dunkirk Observer for any type of deep cut analysis. They share the same editorial board and are very predicable in their takes, not to mention they're owned by Ogden Newspapers who put out nationwide editorials on occasion (like you see with Sinclair Broadcasting).  A bunch of turbines recently came online up on the ridges up and around where I grew up and people who aren't making money from them aren't happy about them. Folks are also still salty about a coal power plant being shut down that would provide a ton of PILOT funding for the area. 

 

All that said, I think the offshore team could do a much better job demonstrating that the turbines wouldn't be visible to most if not all people via viewshed analysis. I've done an analysis like this in college and it was kind of shocking how little of an impact on sightlines turbines have when you take into account buildings and obstructions that already exist.

Agreed -- someone posted a mock-up image here and at 6 miles out the turbines were tiny.  The "ruins my view" crowd are laughable.

 

And until some turbines are actually built out in the lake there is a lot we really don't know -- one of the major selling points of the Icebreaker project was to test the theory about higher winds and improved efficiencies from building out in the lake, and I'm super-disappointed that construction didn't commence immediately after last year's court decision. 

30 minutes ago, Foraker said:

According to the article, the study in NY said that the offshore wind was only 10% higher than the onshore wind, and therefore the 400x cost to build offshore couldn't be justified.  Building on a breakwall might reduce construction and maintenance costs and still get some higher-wind advantage.

Did the article mention anything about the consistency of the winds?

2 hours ago, Ineffable_Matt said:

Did the article mention anything about the consistency of the winds?

No.  I did search for the report itself, which is here:

https://www.nyserda.ny.gov/great-lakes-wind-feasibility-study

 

In the "Evaluation of Site Conditions" section, pages 13-19 discuss the wind speeds.  This report indicates that "new data" shows higher wind speeds than an earlier report, and discusses seasonal/monthly variation in average wind speeds, but does not appear to address consistency.  It appears to rely on modeling wind speeds rather than a ton of actual data -- which reinforces the need for a trial, such as the Icebreaker project, to prove whether continued development would be cost-effective.

 

I also took a quick review of the White Paper to see what conclusions they drew.  One of the reasons that lake wind was determined to not be cost effective in New York State is the lack of "proximity and direct access to load centers" and the presence of land-based solar and wind installations that would offer competing rates to a lake-based wind farm -- I'm not sure the same applies to the Icebreaker project, which would connect directly to Cleveland, and to/near the site of a former power plant which should facilitate connection to the grid.  And we don't have any large wind farms on land near Cleveland that would be competing. 

 

As for the view, see page A-4 or A-6 for a view of a 400 MW wind farm 5 miles offshore with the top of the tower at 112m (about 367 ft), with following pictures at 10 miles offshore.  (You'll probably have to zoom in, they're hard to see -- and the illustrated wind farm takes up the entire horizon, in contrast to the 6 turbines proposed for the Icebreaker project, proposed to be 8 miles off shore (I couldn't find the height).)

the anti’s are hammering away at nj off shore wind farms —

 

 

 

 

A campaign in NJ to unwind support for offshore wind energy is having an effect

 

By Nancy Solomon

Published Sep 2, 2023

 

 

A new poll of New Jersey residents finds that support for offshore wind energy is declining following months of anti-wind activism on the Jersey Shore.

 

The Monmouth University Poll finds there is still broad support for wind energy, but 4 in 10 residents think wind farms could hurt the state’s tourism economy, and half believe recent whale deaths off the shore were caused by wind development.

 

The spike in whale deaths began in 2016, long before any wind projects began, and scientists at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration have determined the vast majority of whale deaths were caused by ship strikes. Unlike all other shipping activity, survey boats used for wind farms have mammal monitors on board who keep a lookout for marine life.

 

 

more:

https://gothamist.com/news/a-campaign-in-nj-to-unwind-support-for-offshore-wind-energy-is-having-an-effect

 

I feel like misinformation is running rampant these day and there needs to be a way to hold liars accountable.  The voting machine lawsuits should be a template.  Isn’t killing a whale a crime?  If so, falsely accusing someone of killing a whale should also be a crime. 

Unless you have a special financial interest against wind interest, how can anyone with a brain be a against wind turbines so far off the shore they are barely noticeable.

On 9/3/2023 at 4:50 PM, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

Unless you have a special financial interest against wind interest, how can anyone with a brain be a against wind turbines so far off the shore they are barely noticeable.

 

Privilege is a helluva drug 

50 minutes ago, ASP1984 said:

 

Privilege is a helluva drug 

 

OK, I'll bite. How is clean energy a privilege?

Compared to other power plants, which often take years (or decades for nuclear), it is amazing how quickly wind turbines can be set up and put to work within days.

Quote

On June 29, CTG completed the installation of a 16 MW wind turbine – the world’s largest – at the same offshore wind farm in an astounding three days. On September 1, according to Chinese news media, the 16 MW turbine ran at full capacity for 24 consecutive hours. It also successfully withstood Typhoon Doksuri’s extreme winds at the end of July.

https://electrek.co/2023/09/04/14-3-mw-offshore-wind-turbine-30-hours/

 

Quote

The average offshore wind project comprises 90 turbines. Hence over the entire course of offshore construction, a full turbine is installed every 10-days on average.

 

However, over 50% of the time is spent on preparations, foundations, cable-laying and commissioning. The average wind turbine installation vessel installs a full turbine every 5-days.

https://thundersaidenergy.com/downloads/offshore-wind-installation-vessels-and-time-per-turbine/

 

So when the Cleveland's little demonstration project is finally ready to go, we can probably expect less than 60 days to run a cable out to the site and 60 days to install the six turbines-- four months from construction start to power generation. 

 

Compare that timeline to the most recently constructed US nuclear plant:

https://apnews.com/article/nuclear-power-georgia-vogtle-reactors-8fbf41a3e04c656002a6ee8203988fad

The roadblocks Ohio Red leaders put in place against so many progressive or just what should be normal policies is painful. 

 

This project should have been up and running years ago. Damn Ohio, you're bound and determined to keep us barefoot and pregnant if you get my drift.

 
OK, I'll bite. How is clean energy a privilege?

 
Privileged people typically raise concerns over private property values and viewsheds re: offshore windfarms. My statement was in support of clean energy development (which I do professionally) as well as an obscure Dave Chappelle reference. 
 

Edited September 5, 20231 yr by ASP1984

56 minutes ago, ASP1984 said:

 

Privileged people typically raise concerns over private property values and viewsheds re: offshore windfarms. My statement was in support of clean energy development (which I do professionally) as well as obscure Dave Chappelle reference. 

 

 

Thanks for the clarification. Unfortunately I tend to fear the worst when I hear/see such comments. 

 

ugh --

 

 

 

Offshore Wind Firm Cancels N.J. Projects, as Industry’s Prospects Dim

 

November 1, 2023

 

 

Orsted, the Danish company that is a leading offshore wind farm developer, said on Wednesday that it would write off as much as $5.6 billion as it gives up on plans to build two wind farms off the coast of New Jersey.

 

The charges were further evidence that offshore wind in the United States is going through a major shakeout, crimping Biden administration plans to make the industry a critical component of plans to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. High inflation and soaring interest rates are making planned projects that looked like winners several years ago no longer profitable.

 

 

more:

https://dnyuz.com/2023/11/01/offshore-wind-firm-cancels-n-j-projects-as-industrys-prospects-dim/

 

Quote

Icebreaker Wind project halted, no plans to resurrect effort to put wind turbines in Lake Erie

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2023/12/icebreaker-wind-project-halted-no-plans-to-resurrect-effort-to-put-wind-turbines-in-lake-erie.html

 

Not surprising, but disappointing nonetheless.  Way to be a leader, Cleveland.

Not surprising but disappointing nevertheless. It could have been an important project bridging an old industrial city/state with a modern and green energy source. But no, instead all we got was pushback from entrenched interests who are determined to keep us firmly planted in the 20th century. 

 

Success!

good news out east here -- not 100% sure, but i believe that despite delays and cancelations of some of the several other wind turbine sites in the area are still in play --

 

maybe the state needs to push it for lake erie like hochul is trying to do? also, nys has gradual renewable energy goals they have to reach by law:

 

 

 

 

Governor Hochul announces South Fork Wind delivers first offshore wind power to Long Island

 

posted by AJOT | Dec 06 2023 at 11:26 AM 

 

 

• South Fork Wind becomes first utility-scale offshore wind farm in Federal waters to begin “powering up” in the United States
• Two turbines already installed; All 12 turbines expected to be installed by early 2024
• Supports New York climate leadership and community protection act goal to install nine gigawatts of offshore wind by 2035

 

Governor Kathy Hochul today announced the successful delivery of clean power to Long Island from the first operational wind turbine at South Fork Wind, marking a historic milestone of the first utility-scale offshore wind farm in federal waters to begin “powering up” in the United States.

 

The project has completed the installation of two turbines, with one operational, approximately 35 miles off Montauk with all 12 turbines expected to be installed by early 2024. Today’s announcement supports progress towards the State’s Climate Leadership and Community Protection Act goal to install nine gigawatts of offshore wind by 2035.

 

“New York's nation-leading efforts to generate reliable, renewable clean energy have reached a major milestone," Governor Hochul said. "South Fork Wind will power thousands of homes, create good-paying union jobs and demonstrate to all that offshore wind is a viable resource New York can harness for generations to come."

 

This milestone, which comes just two weeks after the installation of New York’s first offshore wind turbine, was celebrated in East Hampton alongside joint-venture partners Ørsted and Eversource, state, county and local officials, advocates and community members. When complete, South Fork Wind will generate approximately 130 megawatts of renewable energy, enough to power approximately 70,000 Long Island homes. The renewable energy from South Fork Wind will eliminate up to six million tons of carbon emissions each year, the equivalent of taking 60,000 cars off the road.

 

 

more:

https://www.ajot.com/news/governor-hochul-announces-south-fork-wind-delivers-first-offshore-wind-power-to-long-island

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 20231 yr by mrnyc

I'm so totally demoralized by ignorant masses on one level and lobbyists paid for by the fossil fuel industry and their paid off politicians. 

 

Following the news about HB6 and the recent (took long enough) charges against the old head of PUCO Randanzo and the law that was so wrongly installed is still in place. Ohio is so corrupt. These groups are holding us back. There's a reason we have fallen and continue to fall in national rankings.

On 12/8/2023 at 10:30 AM, Foraker said:

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2023/12/icebreaker-wind-project-halted-no-plans-to-resurrect-effort-to-put-wind-turbines-in-lake-erie.html

 

Not surprising, but disappointing nonetheless.  Way to be a leader, Cleveland.

I don’t see how this is in any way Cleveland’s fault.  As the article clearly states, the delay from years of litigation coincided with the rise in materials cost and rising interest rates. Hardly Cleveland’s fault. 
 

The Port was a leader in attempting this at all and trying to bring this project to fruition. They should be commended, not criticized. 

^ exactly.

 

its pretty sad when afaik across all of northern ohio only bowling green has an active power generating wind turbine.

 

something is definitely corrupt at the state level.

32 minutes ago, mrnyc said:

^ exactly.

 

its pretty sad when afaik across all of northern ohio only bowling green has an active power generating wind turbine.

 

something is definitely corrupt at the state level.

The wind farm out in Antwerp ohio doesn't count?  

 

There's also supposed to be a new windfarm being constructed out in sandusky county , I believe between woodville and fremont ohio 

Edited December 10, 20231 yr by FrankRizzo

21 minutes ago, FrankRizzo said:

The wind farm out in Antwerp ohio doesn't count?  

 

There's also supposed to be a new windfarm being constructed out in sandusky county , I believe between woodville and fremont ohio 

 

afaik = as far as i know

 

so yes indeed antwerp would count.

 

and thats good to hear about about a woodville wind farm in the works, i didnt know about that either.

 

nw ohio is most certainly a perfect place for wind farming, so hopefully more to come.

 

edit — apparantly there is another small wind farm north of van wert too — blue creek.

 

 

Edited December 10, 20231 yr by mrnyc

Yeah I wasn't sure if there was a technicality on why you didn't count them,. That van wert is way tucked out there in no man's land and sandusky co im pretty sure I started seeing the turbines being constructed maybe in Aug? But I don't go out route 20 much.  I know the residents out there weren't too happy about it, but it still went through

1 minute ago, FrankRizzo said:

Yeah I wasn't sure if there was a technicality on why you didn't count them,. That van wert is way tucked out there in no man's land and sandusky co im pretty sure I started seeing the turbines being constructed maybe in Aug? But I don't go out route 20 much.  I know the residents out there weren't too happy about it, but it still went through

 

what were their complaints?

 

looks like its on someone’s farm, i wonder what would anyone else care? 

5 hours ago, mrnyc said:

 

what were their complaints?

 

looks like its on someone’s farm, i wonder what would anyone else care? 

Concerns of shadow flicker, Danger to migratory birds.. probably don't want their views of flat corn fields ruined. Cancer?? 

 

But they're perfectly fine with Davis Besse looming over the horizon, and the coal plants that release the warm water and kill off probably millions of baitfish every year.. 

14 hours ago, jeremyck01 said:

I don’t see how this is in any way Cleveland’s fault.  As the article clearly states, the delay from years of litigation coincided with the rise in materials cost and rising interest rates. Hardly Cleveland’s fault. 
 

The Port was a leader in attempting this at all and trying to bring this project to fruition. They should be commended, not criticized. 

To be clear, I'm not faulting the City of Cleveland -- I mean "Cleveland" generally.  Here was a chance to lead the nation and we blew it.   There's a lot of blame to go around, from Leedco, to financiers, to leadership, to the litigious -- the fact of the matter is that we Clevelanders didn't get it done.

4 hours ago, Foraker said:

To be clear, I'm not faulting the City of Cleveland -- I mean "Cleveland" generally.  Here was a chance to lead the nation and we blew it.   There's a lot of blame to go around, from Leedco, to financiers, to leadership, to the litigious -- the fact of the matter is that we Clevelanders didn't get it done.

I disagree. You can’t blame people generally because a couple of specific litigious groups held things up for years, leading to the pausing of the project. The leadership was there as was the financing, so I’m not sure why you are spreading blame when it should be concentrated on those who sued. 

After meeting with someone in the know / involved with the project, I can say that LEEDCo is far from dead. Do not take the headlines at face value - design and value engineering will be what save this effort. And they've still got their DOE funding and permit. So stay tuned.

 

Edited December 14, 20231 yr by ASP1984

On 12/10/2023 at 4:30 PM, jeremyck01 said:

I disagree. You can’t blame people generally because a couple of specific litigious groups held things up for years, leading to the pausing of the project. The leadership was there as was the financing, so I’m not sure why you are spreading blame when it should be concentrated on those who sued. 

Fine.  Yes, the Bratenahl "don't ruin our sunsets"/"don't kill the birds" litigation(s) (some of which were backed by oil/fracking interests?) are primarily to blame for the delay, as is the worldwide construction cost inflation, etc.  

 

That doesn't eliminate my disappointment that the leadership (city, county, whoever) did not more wholeheartedly publicly and repeatedly support and tout this project for the value that it would bring the region.  I'm sure that they did a lot behind the scenes that they should be commended for, but at the end of the day they failed to drag this test project across the finish line.  No turbine or blade makers have made Northeast Ohio their home, and no wind energy-generated electricity is being fed into CPP or the regional network.

 

@ASP1984 -- may you be right that this is not the end just yet! -- I certainly hope that behind-the-scenes efforts have not ended.

State officials slow-walking permits contributed to the project's demise (pause?) -- finger-pointing at DeWine

https://www.cleveland.com/opinion/2023/12/gov-dewine-is-deeply-complicit-in-icebreakers-demise-brent-larkin.html

1 hour ago, Foraker said:

State officials slow-walking permits contributed to the project's demise (pause?) -- finger-pointing at DeWine

https://www.cleveland.com/opinion/2023/12/gov-dewine-is-deeply-complicit-in-icebreakers-demise-brent-larkin.html

 

Saturday's FT said permitting and slow power-grid hookups are behind a backup of projects representing a 300% increase in renewable energy in Europe. Same problem as in the US.

19 hours ago, Dougal said:

Saturday's FT said permitting and slow power-grid hookups are behind a backup of projects representing a 300% increase in renewable energy in Europe. Same problem as in the US.

And at the same time Europe has far more wind-power electricity generation than the U.S.  So slow-permitting doesn't appear to present the same obstacle in Europe.  To what do you attribute the US's inability to keep up?

1 minute ago, Foraker said:

And at the same time Europe has far more wind-power electricity generation than the U.S.  So slow-permitting doesn't appear to present the same obstacle in Europe.  To what do you attribute the US's inability to keep up?

 

Lack of subsidy.  I think the US wind industry has waited for better economics before making substantial investments. The economics got better around 2020.

Don't forget pushback from the fossil fuels industry. 

Ohio and the Midwest falling further behind more "progressive" regions of the country.

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/massive-11-billion-project-could-150000135.html

 

State Republicans -- reverse course on wind energy for Ohio!

 

This is not a politics forum.  Keeps any discussion of politics tight to the topic.

ny gov announces start up of long island montauk wind farm which powers 70k+ homes — more to come:

 

 

 

 

America’s first commercial-scale offshore wind farm is officially open, a long-awaited moment that helps pave the way for a succession of large wind farms.

 

Danish wind energy developer Ørsted and the utility Eversource built a 12-turbine wind farm called South Fork Wind 35 miles (56 kilometers) east of Montauk Point, New York. New York Gov. Kathy Hochul went to Long Island Thursday to announce that the turbines are delivering clean power to the local electric grid, flipping a massive light switch to “turn on the future.” Interior Secretary Deb Haaland was also on hand.

 

 

more;

https://fortune.com/europe/2024/03/14/orsted-wind-farm-new-york-long-island/amp/

Still grinds my gears that Cleveland could've been a leader in the US in this space. I wonder what kind of legs the project would've had if it started its proposal with Bibb at the helm. Seems like there was too much negative momentum by the time he got into office.

25 minutes ago, dastler said:

Still grinds my gears that Cleveland could've been a leader in the US in this space. I wonder what kind of legs the project would've had if it started its proposal with Bibb at the helm. Seems like there was too much negative momentum by the time he got into office.

Since the lake is an international border, how much control would Cleveland or even Ohio have?   Is this more of a federal issue?

14 hours ago, dastler said:

Still grinds my gears that Cleveland could've been a leader in the US in this space. I wonder what kind of legs the project would've had if it started its proposal with Bibb at the helm. Seems like there was too much negative momentum by the time he got into office.

NIMBYs gone NIMBY regardless of administrations. 

i think these ads help keep wind power on people's minds and err, generate positive feel, especially in places where wind farms exist or are being built -- maybe wind farming advocates can do something similar for ne ohio?

 

i saw this online for western oklahoma where the town of weatherford has a big wind farm --

 

 

 

also i see ads like this myself in staten waiting for the ferry --

 

 

 

👍

 

 

 

Climate and health benefits of wind and solar dwarf all subsidies

 

By displacing fossil fuels, wind and solar saved the US $250 billion over 4 years.

 

by John Timmer -  May 29, 2024

 

…

The researchers find that, in the US, wind and solar have health and climate benefits of over $100 for every Megawatt-hour produced, for a total of a quarter-trillion dollars in just the last four years. This dwarfs the cost of the electricity they generate and the total of the subsidies they received.

 

 

more:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/05/climate-and-health-benefits-of-wind-and-solar-dwarf-all-subsidies/

 

🙀

 

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/C8PL6k7SKUf/?igsh=MW1pc3JnZDhqOXQzNg==

not ne ohio, but out here in shaolin we got big news the wind turbine factory is approved and on the way to getting built — it has funding and no issues with the upcoming full city council vote — biden even gave it a shout out last year — 

 

 

 

This huge Staten Island project got approved by the City Planning Commission. What’s next? 

 

Updated: Jun. 17, 2024

By Jillian Delaney | [email protected]

 

 

STATEN ISLAND, N.Y. — Staten Island’s offshore wind turbine assembly facility is one step closer to establishing the borough’s dominance in the offshore wind industry.

 

On Wednesday, the Arthur Kill Terminal project passed through the City Planning Commission’s final vote, part of its 18-month-long Uniform Land Use Review Procedure (ULURP).

 

 

more:

https://www.silive.com/news/2024/06/this-staten-island-project-got-approved-by-the-city-planning-commission-whats-next.html

 

Pictured is a 2019 rendering of the Arthur Kill Terminal site. (Courtesy of Arthur Kill Terminal/Atlantic Offshore Terminals)Courtesy of Arthur Kill Terminal/Atlantic Offshore Terminals