from, Morning Journal (11-18-04)

Quarry resort has new name, added plans

 

AMHERST -- The first definitive look at a proposed $1 billion golf course and leisure resort planned for the Cleveland Quarries site was offered at a community meeting last night, as was a new name for the project.

 

Representatives from the British-based consortium proposing the project did not attend the meeting at South Amherst Middle School, but the plans showed that Trans European Securities LLP wants to create 750,000 square feet of mixed-use retail, a 50,000-square-foot conference center, and approximately 5 million square feet of office and commercial facilities at the site.

 

 

lol are you shitting me?

 

"Cleveland" Quarries Project... a massively urban $1 billion development... and its gonna be built in Amherst... wow... ridiculous... how could this community even support this once its built?!

The company said it would be "marketed to residential property owners in the eastern US and worldwide." Also i guess it will have its own private schools, police, hospital, and a fire station to handle 25 story high rises. UNBELIEVEABLE!!! lol... it would double no wait triple the population of Amherst

thats so risky though, its like they're trying to build a city over night.

True. Although anyone willing to spend over a BILLION dollars on a project and who has built other similar projects (although this is the largest) throughout Europe must be confident that it will succed. I think they know what they are doing.

 

Also.. this would (in my opinion) be the largest tourist attraction in the state and if not one of the top in the country!!!

 

What do you guys think???

For those of us who live south of I-70, what is Amherst like? What's the population of Amherst?

Actually, the majority of the resort would be located in Amherst TOWNSHIP (city of Amherst is located a quarter mile north or so). The township (pop. 7372) is mostly rural, while the city of Amherst (pop. 15500) is nearly fully developed into upscale subdivisions and shopping centers. Cities with populations of 50000+ like Lorain and Elyria both border the towns. The area is about 25-30 miles west of downtown Cleveland. There is an I-90 interchange in Amherst and an Ohio Turnpike interchange, less than a mile from the quarries, will open in the township in a week or so. The hope is to create an access road connecting the entrance of the Cleveland Quarry Project directly to the mouth of the new interchange. Already several other major developers have rumored about building shopping centers, offices and housing in the area with two large hotels already proposed, I believe.

When I saw the renderings of the condo towers I was assuming that this project was going to be on Lake Erie (I had to get out a map to figure out where Amherst was).

 

On a side note, does Lorain have any plans to "clean up" the lakefront anytime soon? I was very dissapointed when I drove US 6 through the county to find most of the lakefront had rundown looking areas along it (outside of Avon Lake and Vermilion of course).

yea it is sad to see Lorain's lakefront in such poor shape. Im not aware of any clean up projects, they did expand Lakeview Park a few years back, and a nice townhouse development with private docks is going in. Maybe the start of a turn around for Lorain. I think for now though they need to concentrate funds more towards keeping emergency workers employed than the lakefront.

Ambitious.

Ambitious is a diplomatic way to put it - as much as I'd like to see the Lorain/Elyria/Amherst area prosper, this may be a bit too much.

 

And folks, $250K is a lot of money for most of us but for a company like TransEuropean, it's a drop in the bucket. It also gives me the willies that "'They (Trans European) are under no obligation to give us their financial information,'' said Lorain County Community Development Director Ron Twining."

 

Sorry, you don't just hand over a massive swath of land and "hope for the best".

What do you mean this maybe be a little too much??

 

Also, this company has built similar resorts throughout Eroupe and Asia and has been "searching the globe for a site as perfect as the Amherst quarries," (according to a newspaper article a few weeks ago) to build their next one. Why would they all in a sudden not be able to afford this one? Why would a company be investing so much time into this and not be serious? Nearly once a week new information is provided, and most of those weeks a representative from the company flys here from London to answer questions. Of coarse anything is possible but just because they havent formally come out and said this is how much money we have doesnt mean anything.

Don't get me wrong, I think as a project in and of itself it could have an enormous impact on the area. But some of the statements come off WAY too shady - seven star hotels? First - there is NO such thing as a seven star hotel. You may hear the term thrown around but it's nothing more than a marketing ploy. To give you an idea of a 500-room hotel, the Marriott at Key Center has about 420 rooms - now, really... and then they want to add several four-star hotels? I'm very familiar with Amherst (my ex's parents live there) and while there's some money out there, it's nowhere near the demographic needed to support such a project. If they want a landmark site in North America, they need to draw from a LOT further than 100 miles away.

 

As much as all of us would love to see office towers in Lorain County... what companies would locate there? It's too far flung from the center city of the region (Cleveland) and its amenities. Not to mention we're talking about plunking down a convention center? Don't get me wrong, if they can do it, more power to them - but I'm just pointing out some of the flaws I see in their plans. By all means keep us posted - regardless of the final outcome, it's one heck of a proposal.

I read this on msn money

 

American Stone Industries, Inc. Sells Option to Purchase a Portion of Its Real Estate

May 27, 2004

American Stone Corporation, a subsidiary of American Stone Industries, Inc., announced that it has executed an option agreement with Trans European Securities International LLP, a European consortium, under which the consortium acquires an option to purchase approximately 900 acres of American Stone's real estate located in Lorain County, Ohio, for a purchase price of $23,740,000. Under the terms of the agreement, the consortium has an option for a period of 15 months to purchase the real estate. To acquire the option, the consortium will pay American Stone $250,000: $125,000 paid today and $125,000 paid 270 days from today. Upon the exercise of the option, the consortium has agreed to purchase the real estate and pay to American Stone: $5,000,000 within 30 days of the exercise; $10,000,000 one year later; and the balance of the purchase price, or $8,490,000, on the second anniversary of the closing date. In addition to the purchase price noted above, the consortium has agreed to share with American Stone a portion of its earnings that would relate to other than residential sales of the real estate.

The developement, to me, looks like something that could be turned into a casino resort overnight if it ever passed in Ohio. Hence, the 50000 sq ft conference center. Sounds like an excellent floor for slots. All the hotel rooms. A bet Spitzer has some money in this one. If you remember, he has been trying for a casino in Lorain County for 25 years. Call me crazy, but that is what I feel based on the location of the developement. By the time casino gaming passes, this developement would be done and operational.

nsc, now that you mention it - you might well be onto something there

Plus, 50000 sq ft for a convention hall (smaller then a Best Buy store) is not nearly large enough for big convention business. Nor would you need all those hotels for a hall that size. However, you could cram alot of gamblers in a two story 50,000 sq ft casino.

MayDay, although I do see where you are comming from in most of your concerns, I also thnk your taking some of the quotes it too literally. First of all, this is a European company. In Europe there may be seven star hotels, i dont know, but it seems to me they are just trying to make a point that these will be very high class facilities. Also the comment about attracting visitors from 100 miles away was most likely a mistake(lol.. what decent attraction doesnt...high school football games can attract people from further)... since then, the company has corrected itself in saying this will attract world-wide attention and world-wide visitors...

 

Chronicle Telegram 11-19-04:

"Trans European Securities is not panning to attract all of its residents from Lorain County," Twinning said, adding that residential property would be "marketed to residential property owners in the eastern U.S. and worldwide"

 

Also to say that Amherst is too far removed from Cleveland.. not necessarly. Hopkins airport will only be a 20 minute drive once the new turnpike interchange opens on SR 58 in a few days. Cleveland has always only been 30 minutes away, also Lorain County airport is about 5 minutes away. All thats not to mention, the close proximity to Cedar Point, Put-in-Bay, and all the other Sandusky area attractions.But by the looks of this proposal.. the quarry site itself would have most of the same ammenites downtown has to offer.. probably more!

 

With all the attractions proposed at this site, what company wouldnt want to locate there!!

 

Big companies build BIG projects like this all the time... why should we be so concerned about this one not having adequate funding. anyways this all this is just a proposal.. Rough Draft.. the final product will likely look much diffrent.

I had the same thought about the Casino. Sounds like they want to build everything else.. the law is the only thing stopping them.

 

Screw Amherst! A project like this needs to go downtown. :)

 

But seriously, this thing sounds very pie-in-the-sky, and I'll be very surprised if it's actually built.

If downtown had the worlds largest sandstone quarries and had 900 acres of vacant land... im sure it would go downtown. lol

^ no! this kind of stuff doesnt need 900 acres! it would be even more amazing if they could fit it down along the lakeshore. Theres this thing called "the lakefront plan" where the city of cleveland wants private investment along the shoreline in city proper. They could be in the new space the city bought from the port authority. Or the parking lots in the Warehouse District, or the urban praries of midtown. Less spread out and taller? that would be a hit around here, but no, somehow Amherst gets the favored location rather than Cleveland. So backwards.

 

This is just pseudo "urban stuff" built on suburbs because being a glorified cow town isnt cutting it in the "global economy". And this is why i hate why Cleveland is so splintered, every region and city in the metro is only looking out for itself, which isnt good whatsoever.

 

Besides, those quarries look like theyd be nice as a nature preserve. another reason why building over them with highrises is riduclous heh.

one of the articles talks about how an the construction of an asphalt plant nearby might stop this from going through. I dont thnk.. this company anyways.. would ever build a resort like this in an industial town like cleveland. it would great for the city though.

 

btw.. I doubt anyone in Amherst tried to steer this our way.. its the developers decision not the city's or township's.

 

P.S.- there are no cows in Amherst

ok then i shall cuss out the Eurotrash that wants to build this instead.

 

And never say never with the cow part. i live in a suburb of 30,000 thats only about 9 miles outside of cleveland. and one day i discovered a small dairy farm next to a sub-division.

If downtown had the worlds largest sandstone quarries and had 900 acres of vacant land... im sure it would go downtown. lol

 

I didn't mean the entire 900-acre project, just the towers shown in the rendering. :) Though there probably isn't even enough room downtown for that.

 

Screw Amherst! A project like this needs to go downtown. :)

 

But seriously' date=' this thing sounds very pie-in-the-sky, and I'll be very surprised if it's actually built.[/quote']

 

I agree, we'll have to let some time go by before we actually see if the project will happen or not.

umm two words "Burke Lakefront". If that place had gotten something like this wed be demolishing it right now lol

holy cow what does this mean? are they going to start serving martini's and cosmos and put gauloises and clove smokes in the cigarette machines at ZIGGYS and the CEDAR TAVERN? haha.

 

seriously folks let's not get all excited quite yet. the only action is that a euro conglomorate (that has the appearance of being a large company, but we're not sure) has bought an option on some property. and that is it, period.

 

folks the truth is this happens all the time, lots 'o investment companies buy options on lots 'o stuff, land, medical inventions, authors, etc etc.. some of it pans out for them and much of it never does. so only $250k has changed hands and that is nothing.

 

i for one will get more excited when they execute and spend the $20m+ on the actual land purchase. only by that action, aquiring the land, will it show this euro company is for real and serious.

 

i'll leave any spitzer and gambling speculation alone for now as so far i don't see that connection. sorry to be a nay-sayer, but the region gets let down enough (esp in the sports world!). of course i hope it happens, but let's just wait and see for now.

 

ps--cool amherst aerial view & of course keep us updated amherst dude!

SEE MY FIRST POST FOR MORE PICTURES

 

1. Ecology zone: Enviornmentally friendly with nature trails, woodland trails, a sculpture park, wetlands and an ecological and wildlife support facility.

 

2. Sports zone: Equestrian center, national indoor tennis facility, health and fitness facilities, ski slopes, ice skating, rock climbing, archery and water sports.

 

3. Golf Hub: A world-class championship course, golf academy, country club, media center, driving range, high-rise residences, security and surviellance, restraunts and bars, retail, worship facilities, health care, comminuty transport, and kindergarten and primary education.

 

4. Residential zone: High-rise, medium-rise and low-rise residences.

 

5. Hotel and conference zone: 500-bed luxury hotel with restraunts and function suite, additional hotels and convention center.

 

6. Leisure and recreation zone: Theatres, cinemas, preforming arts facilities, retail, health and fitness facilities, enclosed beach facilities with a retractable roof and water park.

 

7. Commercial zone: High-and medium rise offices, business park, science park, research center and communications center.

 

8. Heritage and conservancy: Trail and information centers to conserve and enhance the history of the quarry and quarring.

uhh...........okay........ (still not sure what to make of the whole project)

from,  Amherst News-Times (7-24-04)

Quarry capitalists want to foot public bill

Trans European will pay for roads, security forces, and new fire station costs

 

AMHERST- At this rate the developers of a $1 billion leisure reort at the vacated Cleveland Quarries may run out of good feet to put forward.

 

Trans European Securities International spokesperson Neil Pike did not cross "the pond" from England to attend a special rezoning meeting in South Amherst last Wednessday night, but he managed to wave a proverbial carrot under community leaders noses by proxy.

 

Consenting to requests to change the 917-acre golf, retail, high-end reidential, and tourist destination's working name from Beaver Lodges to Cleveland Quarries (to preserve the property's historical context), project heads also unveiled new schematics showing a sweeping, grandiose skyline dominating the Amherst area horizon.

 

 

What the hell is a 7 star hotel. They made that up. Two words: PIPE DREAM. There will be one Marriott and a few hundred apartments with some office and a few housing developments. They are judt hyping this up to get people excited so they come in with a sprawling mess and get approved. Just a big game.

If thats all they wanted to do why would they want to put it on a piece of land that costs 20 something million dollars. They could put such a project anywhere. Two words..WONT HAPPEN

 

if this company is for real theyll do what they say.. or at least close to it

 

my guess is the seven stars thing was an exaggeration.

 

but who knows they might create a new category..lol

well i guess it's technically possible. here in nyc the winter garden in the world financial center in battery park has giant palm trees inside. check it out here:

 

http://www.wirednewyork.com/wfc/winter_garden/wfc_palm_trees_27oct02.jpg

cool picture!!

 

almost every mall in america has palm trees under windows in the roof though.

 

i wonder if any other quarries have been capped off with a retractable roof into anything close to a "carribean style beach" with simulated ocean and waves....

 

it would be awesome. thats if they could pull it off. that in itself would be a huge draw

 

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!

Wonder if these developers know (or care) there was a railroad spur that went directly into the quarry property? That rail spur went due north (you can see the right of way in the aerial posted by richNcincy) to connect with the east-west Norfolk Southern mainline proposed to be used for the Ohio Hub system high-speed trains. The NS mainline passes within 500 feet of Hopkins International Airport's long-term parking deck (a proposed HSR station site).

 

If the developers are practiced in developing in Europe and China, then I would think they are similarly practiced in having transit connections to their developments. Surely a rail link between their $1 billion development and an international airport would make sense to them, especially if they view this project as an international draw.

 

I had the same thought about Burke Lakefront Airport. I'll bet if the developers said they wanted to build this at Burke, Cleveland Mayor Jane Campbell would tell the FAA to go screw themselves!

 

KJP

very good idea....

 

i think i can picture of what you mean.. im asuming the norfolk/southern is the railroad i labeled.. if you mean the spur would conncect to this railroad, if so i can see your point and how that is possible... but i do see a few small streets that would be in the way of the rail spur though. Also it would be in the backyards of 500,000 dollar plus homes. but is possible i guess...

 

lots of people would be angry

 

would be very convienent for international travelers

 

Anyways heres a another map... hope it helps.

Quarry History @

http://www.amhersthistorical.org/

click on quarries

also.. the land that would be needed to complete the RR spur is owned by or runs directly through the Amherst Historical Society property... the land contains several historical buildings...

http://www.amhersthistorical.org/

click on historical sites

An alternative could be to use the abandoned Lorain & West Virginia RR right of way, which passes through the OTP/SR58 interchange area, then go cross-country as part of the new road that you've proposed on that very good map. There also appears to be another right of way (looks like an abandoned RR too) just north of the old L&WV ROW. Either of these could provide access to the site from Hopkins International and impact fewer existing residential/historic sites.

 

KJP

thats another good idea..you seem to be full of them..lol

dotted line is KJPs thought...

 

http://amhersttownship.us/newsletter0409.htm

pics of otp interchange (scroll down to bottom of page)

 

that option does seem to be better if it werent for the new turpike interchange. Once that comes in and the traffic comes with it youll have a ... railroad crossing.. turnpike interchange...entrance to resort...tons of traffic... all within a few hundred feet!! lol.. seems like a traffic nightmare. But actally there was a battle between the Ohio Turnpike and the owners of that RR. They said the turnpike interchange would destroy and chances of one day building that RR (one of the many reasons the interchange took 10 years to get built). They settled and the RR and ramp would now be adjacent to one another.. hopefully it never happens.

 

As far as the first option goes i think the developers... A) dont care, or B)dont know because the plans show that land devoted to the golf coarse.

OR Maybe.. C) it could be underground. lol.

 

BUT seriously if you look closely at the central intersection on the resort map( where the circle this is) you can see and new road running perpendicular to the N/S road(quarry), but the road dissapears after a few feet....could it be going underground??? to something possibly a trian station????who knows but its something to think about.

 

PS. theres always the Lorain County Airport, which is only about 2 or 3 miles away...(would be great for private jets)

Just grade-separate the road-rail crossings. From an engineering perspective, the simpler solution is put the rail line in a trench, with underpasses beneath the roadways in the vicinity of the interchange.

 

The aerials suggest there might even be enough space to elevate the railroad right of way south of the OTP, and reach a high enough elevation to clear the westbound OTP exit ramp. A typical commuter train should be able to ascend a 2% grade without much trouble. Assuming the OTP requires a 15-foot clearance for trucks, that means a 750-foot-long railway ramp would be needed. It looks like there's about 750 feet to do that. But, like I said, putting the rail line under the affected roadways would probably be the better way to go (depending on a bunch of other unknowns).

 

Of course, this assume the quarries project ever gets built (even in the manner that's been suggested). We're a long way from that....

 

KJP

I dont see how building a rail road would greatly enhance the lure of visitors to this resort or how it could be built without decreasing in value of the land-at the mouth of the interchange-for future development.

 

 

Route 58 already has and over pass at the turpike and an under pass (a half mile north) which the Norfolk/Southern RR runs under.... it doesnt need another...

 

all it would do it give the area a chopped up feel with little to no continuity.

 

LOL.. but all this is just a thought... its never even been proposed.. hopefully it stays that way.

 

I doubt this rail would even provide access from the Airport to Amherst in any less time than it would to drive the 4 exits down the Turnpike...it will only be a 15 minute drive.

How do you get from a plane, to the rental car counter, to your rental car, to the quarries in 15 minutes? Are you familiar with the set-up at Hopkins Airport to secure a rental car?

 

If a park-n-ride station were built at the SR58 interchange, it would increase the value of the land, not decrease it. Do a Google search sometime on the following search terms "land value, rail transit" and you'll learn something quite interesting.

 

KJP

not a whole lot of new info but i thought id post it anyways http://www.morningjournal.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=13447163&BRD=1699&PAG=461&dept_id=46371&rfi=6

 

I never said you could go from plane to quarry in 15 minutes(maybe 20 but thats not the point)... the drive alone would take that long. How long would a passenger have to wait before even getting on the train...(getting tickets, waiting in line, then waiting for an available train to take them where they want to go, and then the actual process of getting there)??? How fast are these trains?? I dont know, but if i had to guess id say it would take longer than 15 minutes + time to get a rental car.

 

If you built a 25 foot mound of dirt DIRECTLY next the the turpike ramp... it would 100% eliminate all surrounding lands' visibility from the highway (land which has been hopped would contain hotels and restraunts)...what kind of hotel or restraunt would like being hidden?? though the under pass might work!! If either an under/over pass are built there would have to be an ADDITIONAL under/over pass constructed down on SR113 a few miles away...lol. I just dont like the thought of some many "high speed" rail lines comming through my town..

 

Could the HSR station be built on vacant land on SR 58 just north of where 58 crosses the existing norfolk/southern RR in the industrial park?? This would eliminate the need of building any more under over passes and rail roads.

 

I agree with you that it would probably increase land values (where ever 25 foot mounds didnt stand)... but I also believe you would lose the sense of community if you put too much mass transportation in such a small area.

 

Over all i believe its unnessecary and wouldnt provide that much in return, unless it can be built along exiting RR in the area. We all ready have 6-8 highway interchanges in the vicinity and have great access to anywhere, we dont NEED a rail station.

 

Its never even been mentioned anywhere but on this forum... i dont think it will happen.

 

:lol: But we are starting to get off topic......

 

So how about this resort.. has anyone heard of the developers or does anyone know of any indoor beaches?? :)

I won't get into a pissing contest with an unarmed man. Maybe you can rent pickup trucks with Yosemite Sam mudflaps to visitors? After all, it is Lorain County!

 

KJP

thats a very immature comment... i was asking serious questions but if your gonna act like that i dont really care.. why should i, it will most likely never happen. If done properly and in a less visible place i wouldnt mind it, nor would most LORAIN COUNTY residents..lol

For a moment lets just say that everything proposed by these developers goes through (including police, firefighters, and hospitial staff).  How many jobs do you guys think could be created???  I think it could be over 10,000? but i'd like everyones opinion. THANKS!!

amherst guy i hope it happens but let's not jump the gun here. the only "real" thing that has happened so far is that someone purchased an option to buy off of the landowner. the rest is mere idle speculation. my guess is that it could end up a golf course resort at best, we'll see. as i said above i'll get more excited when land actually changes hands, but even then the whole concept is quite a stretch. if it does ever happen i owe you and i will be the first one to buy you a beer at the cedar tavern or ziggy's, your choice!

 

yosemite sam mudlfaps in lorain county? c'mon now that's a good one!

 

 

 

 

 

 

LOL.. ok first of all I KNOW, I KNOW, I KNOW...lol (i wanted to make that clear, hope it worked) I thnk it is a long shot as well... but lets just say it did happen, im curious as to what all of you think.  Considering this single project could could be the start of MANY great things for Lorain County, many people around here are excited about the impact this will have on the local economy in terms of jobs mostly, and I just wanted to put the question out there....How many jobs do you guys think this could mean???

 

MrNYC i dont drink but thanks anyways...lol