if low ceilings are a hard sell, maybe they could knock out every other floor and open it up a bit inside? i dk if that could be done.

Cutting out floors won't be cheap.  These aren't exactly the 2x4's and plywood boards in your home, afterall.

 

I love the backside of the rotunda in that picture.  It is a like a little bit of urban archeology as temporary public art.

for some reason back around 2000-2001 i remember a Fifth Third Bank sign on this building.

I worked adjacent to the building at the time - there was never a 5/3rd sign there.

5/3 was on 9th, across from St. John's Cathedral, next to that old mural of people on a park bench.  Then they moved to what was the bank one building.

With all the interest nationwide about mid-century modernism, I really think there would be a market niche for this tower as condos.  There isn't anything else like it Downtown with the cache of being designed by a famous internationaly known architect.  Open any book about 20th century design, and Marcel Bruer's name is right there along with Mies, Le Corbusier, Florence Knoll, Louis Kahn....etc. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.natarus.com/News/essayitem.aspx?essayid=99

 

 

I like your thinking metrocity, unfortunately, Condo managed Hotels aren't a good ROI according to many housing articles.  Granted the articles I've read are centered on the Miami and Las Vegas condo/hotel market.

 

Now if this is a condo with a seperate hotel (think reserve square) then I would be down for it.

if low ceilings are a hard sell, maybe they could knock out every other floor and open it up a bit inside? i dk if that could be done.

 

I don't get what's the issue.  The ceilings look plenty high enough to me.

 

A big, tall, expensive messPosted by The editors October 23, 2007 05:47AM

 

After owning the old Ameritrust complex at Euclid Avenue and East Ninth Street for more than two years, and doing almost nothing with it but racking up bills, Cuyahoga County Commissioners want to sell.

 

This, after paying too much -- $22 million -- for the historic rotunda, three adjacent buildings, a parking garage and a 22-story tower so riddled with asbestos that some estimates put the cost of abatement at equal to half the purchase price...

there was a graphic i think a while back that showed the floor heights and a proposed re-use.  maybe i saw this at ingenuity, as it isn't posted in this thread anywhere. idk.

 

but I think that metrocity is close to guessing that the plates might be spaces 10' apart, which from a residential perspective should be plenty of space to work with.

 

does anyone else remember the graphic i'm talking about or have access to it?

 

edit:  this wasn't exactly what i was looking for, but it will do.  i should have started with google...

 

from this shot, i'd say there is plenty of space:

if low ceilings are a hard sell, maybe they could knock out every other floor and open it up a bit inside? i dk if that could be done.

 

I don't get what's the issue.  The ceilings look plenty high enough to me.

 

 

Outstanding!

^^ wow, those windows are awesome.

^^ wow, those windows are awesome.

 

Can you imagine the view into the Jake, the westside, or lake?

 

The views of the south/south western portion of the city would be awesome.  The city view up East Ninth and Euclid would command a good price!

The "bathtub" surrounds restrict the views a bit, unfortunately.  But at least they're novel! 

 

If they replace the windows, they need to make them openable somehow.

I'm surprised at how big those windows are. From the street they appear to be the size of airliner windows.

 

If this building is redeveloped with housing, I hope the developer shows how big the windows actually are or sales could be affected unnecessarily.

I'm surprised at how big those windows are. From the street they appear to be the size of airliner windows.

 

If this building is redeveloped with housing, I hope the developer shows how big the windows actually are or sales could be affected unnecessarily.

I was thinking the same thing.  I've only been in the tower portion of the building once and it was loooooooong time ago.  Those windows are cool to me and would make a unique detail that you would not be able to find in another building.

 

Add rooftop community space and solarium and its on!

Those windows are great, and the ceiling height looks fine for residential....even exceptional.  The bottom of the girder looks to be about 10'  up....but it looks like the actual floor plate above might be 12'.  Leave the girders exposed with those big windows, and you have a great space.  I agree that the windows would need to open somehow.

 

Now if this is a condo with a seperate hotel (think reserve square) then I would be down for it.

 

Yeah, that is what I was getting at.  The W hotel could use the Rotunda as it's Lobby since they like to have the lobby be kinda clubby and open to the general public anyway.  The lower floors could be the hotel rooms and the upper could be condo.  The 9th street entrance could be used for the actual condos.  Rooftop deck with that cool cutout as a feature...I'd buy there!  And, there is already a parking deck.

 

Done.

Now if this is a condo with a separate hotel (think reserve square) then I would be down for it.

 

Yeah, that is what I was getting at.  The W hotel could use the Rotunda as it's Lobby since they like to have the lobby be kinda clubby and open to the general public anyway.  The lower floors could be the hotel rooms and the upper could be condo.  The 9th street entrance could be used for the actual condos.  Rooftop deck with that cool cutout as a feature...I'd buy there!  And, there is already a parking deck.

 

Done.

 

that would be sweet.  the Euclid side for the Lobby bar and the prospect side for the entrance.  i would totally build a pool and "sweat" above the garage.  the upper 10 floor would have private access and the amenities roof.  Ground thru 15 could be the hotel. and a restaurant with outdoor seating along east ninth.

 

metrocity....We're preliminarily planned a hotel & condo development and the damn building is still in county control!  We are a sad bunch!

So .. are you saying Cleveland is getting a W hotel?

So .. are you saying Cleveland is getting a W hotel?

No. "Mr. KnowItAll"

So why were you guys talking about a W hotel using the Rotunda?? Wishful thinking? How dare you?

This is just embarrassing.  Excerpt from the PD's "Tip-off" column:

 

Towering temper:

 

Cuyahoga County commissioners, under assault for saying they may sell the former Ameritrust property they bought rather than develop it for county offices, say they don't deserve the criticism.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/tipoff/

It could be that Timmy is seeing his political career flash before his eyes.

^^Oh, I just had scary thought when reading that PD column.  Is anyone else worried that because of stubbornness, contrasting viewpoints, and money issues...this may turn into one of those projects where the building gets torn down and NOTHING is built in its place?

^Bingo, we have a winner...

The thing that gets me is that they seem to be so arrogantly throwing this money around. Like there's no regard for the public, who actually is paying for the thing. Typical politics, I guess.

The thing that gets me is that they seem to be so arrogantly throwing this money around. Like there's no regard for the public, who actually is paying for the thing. Typical politics, I guess.

 

Well let's recall dimora. We would need about 100 thousand signatures.

Why is PLJ so out of the loop?

The thing that gets me is that they seem to be so arrogantly throwing this money around. Like there's no regard for the public, who actually is paying for the thing. Typical politics, I guess.

 

Well let's recall dimora. We would need about 100 thousand signatures.

I am sure there is someone nearly as bad in training with his eye on the job.

Cuyahoga County selling downtown Ameritrust complex at East Ninth and Euclid

Tuesday, November 06, 2007

Joe Guillen, Plain Dealer Reporter

 

The downtown site Cuyahoga County bought two years ago for a new administration building is officially up for sale.

 

Bidding for the old Ameritrust complex at East Ninth Street and Euclid Avenue will open at $35 million, equal to the amount spent on the project so far, officials said Monday ...

 

... More at http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1194341996241540.xml&coll=2

The county isn't fully committed to selling the site. If bids come in below $35 million, they will be thrown out and plans for the administration complex will continue.

 

I hope I'm wrong but I don't see many bids > $35 million.

I wonder if the K&D group will attempt to redevelop both 668 Euclid and the Ameritrust site or if it even has the resources to do both.  Also, I understand that the county is removing asbestos but I really don't see developers rushing to take on this project.

I can't find the news story, but last night on Fox 8 they reported the FBI is investigating why the county choose a bid package almost $1 million more then the the next lowest bidder for asbestos abatement.

 

The county isn't fully committed to selling the site. If bids come in below $35 million, they will be thrown out and plans for the administration complex will continue.

 

I hope I'm wrong but I don't see many bids > $35 million.

 

hopfully the press around the destruction coupled with the recent transactions ofr some of the downtown properties, will allow a number of developers from outside of Ohio to get in on the bidding.

 

i'd hate to see any of the other projects that are underway or in planning stages (stonebridge, 668) get sacrificed or delayed b/c this project took all of the financing from local players.

I agree with Floridaguy. Nobody will bite on this at that price. Regardless, this property will

be sitting for along time. If the Rotunda, and buildings on the Euclid side get developed that would be a major accomplishment. I bet in the end, the county will cut their losses, and be happy a developer takes it off their hands.

The county isn't fully committed to selling the site. If bids come in below $35 million, they will be thrown out and plans for the administration complex will continue.

 

I hope I'm wrong but I don't see many bids > $35 million.

 

hopfully the press around the destruction coupled with the recent transactions ofr some of the downtown properties, will allow a number of developers from outside of Ohio to get in on the bidding.

 

i'd hate to see any of the other projects that are underway or in planning stages (stonebridge, 668) get sacrificed or delayed b/c this project took all of the financing from local players.

 

I was hoping the same thing.  That there would possibly be more interest in this from outside groups, because of the exposure.  It seems like it would be a bit much for K@D to take on. 

If not, and down the road, if the county were to continue to pursue their plans, I could see Hagan and Dimora saying, "hey we gave the opportunity for someone to do something with the building, but nobody was interested...." kind of thing, and that they are doing the best thing by ridding Cleveland of this..........

Does this mean that the County is continuing with the asbestos removal? 

 

I would think that the property would be more valuable than it was before if the County took care of the asbestos issue.  Even though you might pay more to the County than you would have to Jacobs, you don't have the hassle or the liability of the asbestos to deal with.  I would guess that the County (and the contractor) takes some ownership of any remaining asbestos liability if the job wasn't done properly.

 

I thought I read somewhere on this board that there was asbestos in the facing on the building, which hopefully only has to be removed (carefully) if the tower is going to be demolished.  Is that correct? 

 

What do you think?

 

Does this mean that the County is continuing with the asbestos removal? 

 

I would think that the property would be more valuable than it was before if the County took care of the asbestos issue.  Even though you might pay more to the County than you would have to Jacobs, you don't have the hassle or the liability of the asbestos to deal with.  I would guess that the County (and the contractor) takes some ownership of any remaining asbestos liability if the job wasn't done properly.

 

I thought I read somewhere on this board that there was asbestos in the facing on the building, which hopefully only has to be removed (carefully) if the tower is going to be demolished.  Is that correct? 

 

What do you think?

 

 

^CH Jake, you're correct about the exterior asbestos. As long as it is contained (in the concrete), it is fine. It would have to be removed prior to demo; now that would be expensive.

I am hesitant to say this, but in so many ways this project is an example of why this area deserves what it ultimately gets.  Let us not forget that the three (well, really two) men who entered into this boondoggle are elected officials.  How have they garnered votes in the past?  As long as the people of Cuyahoga County continue to elect those of the same ilk as Dimora, Hagan, and Kucinich, it will continue to lag the rest of the country, and corruption and inaction will continue.  The voters should be outraged and appalled that they've elected these clowns, and Dennis the Menace as well.

 

Please remember this little message as you hopefully head to the voting booth today.  The people must do better for themselves.

Breuer Tower already scarred by demolition as Cuyahoga County mulls whether to sell it

Posted by Plain Dealer Architecture Critic Steven Litt

November 06, 2007

 

Cuyahoga County has spent or committed nearly $3.2 million to remove asbestos from an historic downtown office tower and to design a new administrative center that would replace it, even though the county could soon halt work and sell the building.

 

Historic preservationists have protested the county's intention to raze and replace the 29-story Ameritrust Tower because the building, located on East 9th Street just south of Euclid Avenue, is the only tall office tower completed by Marcel Breuer, one of the 20th century's leading architects. The tower was finished in 1971 as the headquarters of Cleveland Trust, later Ameritrust...

 

For More: http://blog.cleveland.com/architecture/2007/11/_contractors_are_working_at.html

no surprise here just another failed county project

no surprise here just another failed county project

 

What are the other failed county projects that you speak of? 

 

I do think that two of the three commissioners seriously dropped the ball on this one.  However, the reason is mainly that medical mart was not on the horizon when they were developing the new HQ plans. If they would go ahead with both the MM and the HQ, the county bond rating would be so bad that we'd be paying ridiculous interest rates that would not be sustainable. In that sense, I'm very glad that they are back-burnering the HQ project. MM is much more important.

Did anyone see this new website created by the county?

 

http://www.checkthefence.us/

 

It's kind of ironic that this month's message for the fence outside of the Breuer Tower is sustainability.

That lobby is quite fetching. It could be rebuilt, could it not? It's not like punching a hole in a Van Gogh.

ah boy. no question the asbestos removal work needs to be done regardless of what happens to the building in the end. it's a shame it was damaged by the process.

 

the cynical side of me says they were told to do that on purpose.

 

 

the cynical side of me says they were told to do that on purpose.

 

Yeah, I can't say I know the building inside and outside, but I'd assume that there's a loading dock or two lying around.

^Both of you....my thoughts exactly!

 

The National Building Museum in DC has a Breuer exhibit...no pics of this building, but in case anyone was wondering why he deserves some respect, check it out...

 

 

http://www.nbm.org/Exhibits/current/breuer/gallery.htm

"Even if work stops immediately, the tower has been damaged irreparably."

 

 

I think that's a little (a lot really) overdramatic. Makes it sound like the building is about to collapse for crying out loud. That kind of talk only damages the argument for preservation.

^That's probably true about the facade, but it sure does make the county and its contractors look even more like clowns.  The lobby interior and facade are definitely the coolest part of the building to me.

 

I'm happy the county is putting this whole project on the backburner for the reasons 3231 mentioned, but this whole sh%tshow has left me with a diminished view of Dimora and Hagan.

I'd be curious to find out what happened to the removed materials, whether they were salvaged or sent to the dump. With so much emphasis on sustainability, I would hope the commissioners would have the foresight to retain all of that marble and glass; even if it can't be reconstructed (and it very much sounds like it can't), it could be retained for smaller local construction projects or incorporated into a public art project that honors Breuer's architectural legacy.