I smell Higbees.  It makes sense on so many levels.

Make mine a Weston, please.

IS the Weston location jacob's property that he wanted to build on last year?

But why do we need more parking???

IS the Weston location jacob's property that he wanted to build on last year?

 

Weston's is on the west side of West Third Street. And I get to use one the Bialosky renderings to explain this! It's the tallest blue building with the yellow ground floor -- or at least it could be something like that building. The Jacobs parking lot is at the bottom of the image with a little sliver of Public Square visible....

 

I smell Higbees. It makes sense on so many levels.

 

Isn't Key Bank moving a bunch of people to the Higbee Building from the May Co. Building pretty soon?

 

I actually think the Huntington Building makes the most sense for them, but I'd also love to see that building turned into a mix of condos, apartments, hotel, and offices. 

I smell Higbees.  It makes sense on so many levels.

 

Isn't Key Bank moving a bunch of people to the Higbee Building from the May Co. Building pretty soon?

 

I actually think the Huntington Building makes the most sense for them, but I'd also love to see that building turned into a mix of condos, apartments, hotel, and offices. 

 

The hunting building wouldnt make a good hotel due to the corridors.  I'm not an architect, but I think that conversion would cost to much, there for raising the nightly rate.

 

condos with street level retail YES.  Hotel no.  Also the EOG Building is a better candidate for a hotel.

 

Higbees is HUGE.  I would guess, there is room for everyone in that building.

Simply saying that a certain program doesn't fit into a certain building is misleading.  I really don't see what the difference would be between redoing the Old Arcade for a hotel and turning the Huntington Building into a hotel.  Not saying that's the best use for Huntington, but the thing is 1.6 million square feet and could take on any number of programs thrown at it.  Hotel, office, condo, apartments, museum, casino, etc.  Really, it will take a plan of many different uses to get it full.

Simply saying that a certain program doesn't fit into a certain building is misleading.  I really don't see what the difference would be between redoing the Old Arcade for a hotel and turning the Huntington Building into a hotel.  Not saying that's the best use for Huntington, but the thing is 1.6 million square feet and could take on any number of programs thrown at it.  Hotel, office, condo, apartments, museum, casino, etc.  Really, it will take a plan of many different uses to get it full.

 

Didn't I say I wasn't an architect?

OfficeFinders .com says the recommended sq. footage per employee is 250/ 275. The County has appox. 500 sq foot / employee.

Would the difference be due to incarceration space? or their generosity with tax dollars?

 

What is the penalty for breaking leases on current facilities?

 

The 3 MILLION dollars (17MILLION replacement cost) worth of "scrap" copper that is "gone" from the AmeriTrust Building, who will be paying for it's replacement and how does that figure into the cost?

The difference in space might have to do with the amount of public space needed for county operations-think waiting areas, service counters, public record access areas.  Most of their departments have significant areas that the public has to use.

I was going to say the same thing. Most office areas are private. Governmental offices are very public and thus very different in their spatial needs.

Just thinking out loud - Would there be a way to incorporate the massive and impressive bank lobby in the Huntington Bldg for the places where the public needs to interact? Or would it be too cumbersome to have that split off from the actual back office function?

Just thinking out loud - Would there be a way to incorporate the massive and impressive bank lobby in the Huntington Bldg for the places where the public needs to interact? Or would it be too cumbersome to have that split off from the actual back office function?

 

The County will need at least two very large open spaces in its new offices.  Both the Recorder's Office and the Auditor's Office require room for waiting areas, help desks and lots of space for working desks and file storage.  To my knowledge, those are the two high volume offices in the current administration building.  I wonder though if it is possible to find a home for those two offices in the Old County Courthouse.  If that is possible, the County might be able to be more flexible in its search for new HQs.

Just thinking out loud - Would there be a way to incorporate the massive and impressive bank lobby in the Huntington Bldg for the places where the public needs to interact? Or would it be too cumbersome to have that split off from the actual back office function?

 

The County will need at least two very large open spaces in its new offices.  Both the Recorder's Office and the Auditor's Office require room for waiting areas, help desks and lots of space for working desks and file storage.  To my knowledge, those are the two high volume offices in the current administration building.  I wonder though if it is possible to find a home for those two offices in the Old County Courthouse.  If that is possible, the County might be able to be more flexible in its search for new HQs.

 

Although I understand your logic, I thought the purpose was an antiquated building, consolidation into one building and to eliminate multiple leasees in buildings that are in close proximity.

Cuyahoga County gets six proposals for new administration building

 

 

 

Owners of the Huntington Building, which is considered by many real estate insiders as a perfect fit for the county, did not submit a proposal. The building, also at East Ninth Street and Euclid Avenue, is likely to empty out in 2011 as Huntington Bank moves to the former BP building at 200 Public Square and other tenants' leases expire.

 

 

 

Hmm, I wonder if they already know what they are going to do with the building ?

Any legal experts know what this is all about;

County Prosecutor, recommending to employ the law firm of Benesch, Friedlander, Coplan & Aronoff, LLP, in the amount not-to-exceed $18,000.00 for legal services in connection with the Ameritrust Ground Lease Dispute/Litigation, in accordance with Ohio Revised Code Section 305.14.

 

Cuyahoga County case number CV-09-681954

 

Any legal experts know what this is all about;

County Prosecutor, recommending to employ the law firm of Benesch, Friedlander, Coplan & Aronoff, LLP, in the amount not-to-exceed $18,000.00 for legal services in connection with the Ameritrust Ground Lease Dispute/Litigation, in accordance with Ohio Revised Code Section 305.14.

 

Cuyahoga County case number CV-09-681954

 

 

Basically, Bill Mason is seeking assistance from outside counsel and is asking either the court or the board to approve the hiring of that law firm to represent the county in the case you cited to.  Lots of players in this suit - the County, the Commissioners, K&D, Frangos, Jacobs, Key Bank, other LP's and LLC's - which, for the time being, has been limited to determining the validity of some lease assignment concerning the AT complex.

i wonder if this is in regards to the parcel of land frangos controls in the complex... which he demanded be renogatiated thus killing the K&D deal...

^I wonder if K&D and Frangos had beef prior to the deal?  How is it that Frangos wouldn't benefit from the building being renovated?

he owned a parcel of land under the building... there was an agreement in place for that to be sold to the county for the relocation project... that agreement expired while K&D was trying to develop the property and he demanded more money... which killed the deal.  That guy could care less about development, all he cares about is getting the most $$$ he can.

I can't blame him for wanting to make money on land which he owns.  But dammit...

Here's what I can decipher:

 

Hagan, Dimora and Lawson-Jones, as the Bd of Commissioners, filed a lawsuit sounding in contract (real estate) but seeking declaratory judgment and injunctive relief.  The primary defendants were (1) Cleveland Times Square Holdings at Six Points LLC (c/o Louis Frangos), (2) Frangos, (3) K&D Group, and (4) Herrick Hudson LLC (a Virginia company).  Herrick Hudson LLC counterclaims against the County Board and files a Third Party Complaint against (1) Key Bank Assoc. (as successor to Society Natn'l Bank, Ameritrust and the Cleveland Trust Co.), (2) Ninth Street-Euclid LLP (a Delaware company), and (3) Ninth Street-Euclid Corp (c/o The Richard Jacobs Group).  Cleveland Times Sq., Frangos and Herrick Hudson all have the same attorney so their interests must be aligned.  Same goes for the two Ninth Street companies.

 

The most telling thing to me is that a successor to Cleveland Trust Co. was named (Key Bank), meaning that whatever deal they are litigating is quite old. 

So basically everyone who has ever had an ownership stake in thebuilding is taking sides and suing eachother. Got it. Thanks. :)

I can't blame him for wanting to make money on land which he owns. But dammit...

 

I can if he's not willing to do anything for it.  Otherwise he's a leach.

everyone is suing each other! it's like a sue-a-palooza!

So, Frangos killed the latest development proposal for the Ameritrust Tower? 

 

What is the County hoping to achieve with this lawsuit against Frangos? 

So, Frangos killed the latest development proposal for the Ameritrust Tower?

 

What is the County hoping to achieve with this lawsuit against Frangos?

 

A miracle.

Im guessing this has to be settled before anything can happen with that property, no?

^I would guess the same.  This has been a mess for a while now.

And this will only add years to the timeline.

 

I say: force all the attorneys involved in this legal shitstorm to live in the building, in as-is condition, starting Monday -- the first day of winter.

 

Then let's see how long it takes them to come an agreement (P.S.: if an attorney dies, their client is automatically removed as a claimant in any way relating to this property).

And this will only add years to the timeline.

 

I say: force all the attorneys involved in this legal sh!tstorm to live in the building, in as-is condition, starting Monday -- the first day of winter.

 

Then let's see how long it takes them to come an agreement (P.S.: if an attorney dies, their client is automatically removed as a claimant in any way relating to this property).

 

Nah... all that would do is give them another excuse and justification to bill their hourly rate without doing any real work.  Better idea would be to have the CLIENTS (or reps thereof) move in.  After all, they are the only ones with final settlement authority, not the attorneys.

Better still, put all the clients and their attorneys in the building and lock the doors. If anyone comes out alive after just a few days, I'll be amazed.

Better still, put all the clients and their attorneys in the building and lock the doors. If anyone comes out alive after just a few days, I'll be amazed.

 

You know what you do when you are locked in a room with a hungry bear, a starving tiger, and a lawyer... but only have two bullets in your gun?.... You shoot the lawyer twice.

 

Seriously though, wouldn't you agree to be locked up in that building for $350/hr?

 

From the docket, it does seem like the issues in the case are being narrowed and I would not expect it to drag on forever.

Cuyahoga County: Commissioners leave 'move' decision to new county government

 

CLEVELAND -- Cuyahoga County's three outgoing commissioners are postponing any decision about moving county government's headquarters.

 

There was a chance the headquarters building at Ontario and Lakeside avenues would need to be demolished to make way for the Medical Mart and Convention Center.

 

http://www.wkyc.com/news/local/news_article.aspx?storyid=132110&catid=3

I think it makes sense to wait until the new government comes and they take a hard look at what their space needs will be under the new organizational structure.

 

I hope they ultimately decide to build a new HQ downtown. Weston remains my first choice of the six proposed.

I think it makes sense to wait until the new government comes and they take a hard look at what their space needs will be under the new organizational structure.

 

I hope they ultimately decide to build a new HQ downtown. Weston remains my first choice of the six proposed.

 

Did you see the article in the OD on Sunday about all of the empty office space downtown (Huntington, East Ohio Gas, Ameritrust etc).  I really don't think we need a new build, but it would be nice to get some of that taken up by county employees. 

I think those options are problematic for the county due to the need for 'contiguous' office space.  Hunington is too divided and, while large, is not nearly as big as it looks from the outside.  We been down the road with the Ameritrust building before.  East Ohio Gas would need major renovations to fit the county's needs.... have you ever seen the 'lobby' in that building?

 

I am not sure that any of those buildings is going to re-purposed for anything other than residential or small offices.... maybe a mix of both.

Have you ever been in the Huntington Building?  The floor plates are 65,000sf(!)  Not as big as it looks from the exterior?  It's like 1.6 million square feet in total.

Did you see the article in the OD on Sunday about all of the empty office space downtown (Huntington, East Ohio Gas, Ameritrust etc). I really don't think we need a new build, but it would be nice to get some of that taken up by county employees.

 

Yes I did. I'm also aware that the floor plates in the East Ohio Gas and Ameritrust buildings are too small for public sector office needs. Private sector office deal less with the public and don't have the same needs as public sector offices do for waiting areas, service counters, public records storage, etc.

 

Hts121 noted the lack of contiguous vacant spaces at the Huntington, which would make a nice housing conversion as would Ameritrust. I don't know enough about the East Ohio Gas building to have an opinion on what its future should be.

^With Tucker Ellis, Huntington Bank and Ernst and Young all leaving the Huntington Building soon it will have vast  contiguous space available (multiple contiguous floors...and W28th is correct, the floors are huge).  Also, a glorious public space in the lobby (also huge...with the correct configuring much more than they have now) and a parking garage connected to the building.

I'd guess that one thing the county wouldn't like about the Huntington Bldg is the lack of a conspicuous connected parking garage.  That was one of the key attractions of the old Ameritrust Bldg.  From that perspective (and maybe only that perspective), EOG would work well.  I still don't quite buy the floor plate size requirements the county talked about last go around- it's not like they're making cars in there.  Most of those workers don't interface with the public one bit.

And while public records must be maintained, I don't believe it's necessary to do so on-site or in hard copy form.  I'm dubious of the floor plate requirement as well.  The commissioners wanted a Beachwood-style building (remember those renderings) and set their "requirements" accordingly.  Seems like most of the agencies would do just fine in a skyscraper format.

 

And the more I think about it... the EOG building, with its attached parking, doesn't seem half bad for this.  But I know nothing of that property either.  I guess it's not an awful thing if the county ends up building new, as long as what they build is decent.  But filling up a currently abandoned tower would be preferable. 

 

Regardless, this should be decided by the incoming council.

And while public records must be maintained, I don't believe it's necessary to do so on-site or in hard copy form. I'm dubious of the floor plate requirement as well. The commissioners wanted a Beachwood-style building (remember those renderings) and set their "requirements" accordingly. Seems like most of the agencies would do just fine in a skyscraper format.

 

I'm with you on the floor plate requirement.  In simple terms, there is a ton of office space available in dt Cleveland right now which does not warrent construction of a new facility.  Additionally, there is alot of contiguous office space available within virtually empty buildings.  Let's just concentrate on filling those up first. 

Have you ever been in the Huntington Building? The floor plates are 65,000sf(!) Not as big as it looks from the exterior? It's like 1.6 million square feet in total.

 

Yes, yes and maybe so.  What I was referring to is the fact that the floor plates do not extend from one end of the building to the other.  They are broken up significantly.  The building is built like two rectangular dougnuts.  Take a look at the satellite image.

 

You also have to consider the support beams that run through that building which frustrate the creation of "contiguous" space.  This has all been discussed ad nauseam before.  It just doesn't fit the County's needs.

^It will be interesting to see what the revamped county gov't says its needs are.  Wouldn't surprise me if they turned out to be a little different from what the three commissioners pushed.  Maybe not, but we'll see.

 

If Huntington is chosen (and actually, for whatever Huntington is used for next), I think it would be cool to treat the building like a canvas to be messed with a little bit- blow through the facade in some places, maybe add some color.  Maybe go all Coop Himmelblau on its @ass.  I don't expect this to be a popular idea though.

It wouldn't be popular with me.  I love the exterior of the Huntington Bldg.  I could maybe stomach some tasteful arch tunnels (or whatever they would be called) allowing for access from the street to the courtyards.

I'm still a big proponent of using the Ameritrust tower and rotunda. It's just going to keep deteriorating if we don't do something with it soon, and it will become a huge eyesore. It would be nice to see some life returning to that part of East 9th Street. There's a pretty large parking garage attached, too.

 

Besides, I have the coolest nickname for it, if it is used for the county government. Since the building's exterior looks like honeycombs, we could call it The Hive. :D

Today's Crains has a story about a renewed interest in this project. Does anyone have a subscription to Crains?

Google it and you can read it online.  In summary:

 

-yes, interest is renewed

-they also want to dispose of other county owned property to encourage private development

-Fitz will address all this during his speech on Wednesday

-He is open to all proposals, including a "building swap"..... hmmmmmmm..... I wonder if Optima would bite

-AT tower and current HQs mentioned as being of possible interest to private developers

-Price still interested in AT Tower

-County wants to consolidate workforce