(Sorry for the choppiness - typed this at work from Crains' Cleveland):

 

 

Link to the proposals:

http://www.cleveland.com/news/agate.ssf?/news/county_plan.html

 

The consultant to Cuyahoga County has trimmed the list of sites and developers for a proposed, $100 million county administration building. Last friday, Staubach Co. presented county commissioners with four semi-finalists: the former Higbee building on Public Square, owned by Forest City Enterprises; the vacant Ameritrust Tower on East Ninth owned by the Richard Jacobs Group; a site controlled by the Goldberg family and Trammel Crow Co. of Dallas along Euclid Avenue that would add space to the former Taylor department store; and a site on Lakeside Avenue between West Third and West Ninth Street that eventually would include a residential complex, as proposed by Garfield Traub Development of Dallas.

Is that site on lakeside where they were supposed to build courthouse tower at one point. Kind of sounds like the location.

I like the 668 Euclid location. The Building needs a rehab. I don't see any other developer taking on that building. Higbee on the other hand has to be eyed by many developers by now for some type of conversion. This would be a great opportunity to get 668 Euclid cleaned up.

I'm glad to see that the Garfield Heights proposal was eliminated (not that anyone really though it had a chance). Although I am a little dissapointed to see the proposal to add floors to the old Sterling-Lindner building was eliminated. That was my personal favorite, would have been neat to see what kind of effect that could have had on the section of Euclid between 9th and Playhouse Square. But I still can't help but be excited to see that something of this magnitude is actually progressing.

The Lakeside vision is awesome and probaly my favorite because of the mixed use aspect, however, it is quite expensive. Granted, Cuyahoga county is a very wealthy county, I do not know if they could spring that.

eenie meeny miny moe...

They should renovate the Ameritrust tower. This should be their #1 choice -- it's relatively close to the freeway and there's an attached parking garage. Perfect for a county HQ.

I agree. Best to fill up the vacancies before building more new space. I also like the idea of having the rotunda return as a public space, such as for exhibits, gatherings and possibly for music. Wonder what the accoustics are like in there? But it would probably be used most often by county officials to make bellowing speeches...

 

KJP

what exactly is this building....will they move the courthouse to it?

County Commisioners offices.  Peter LAwson Jones et al. 

I like this thread...let's get it heated up again. 

 

I like the idea of new costruction north of the freeway, right on the waterfront line, but I think that will take care of itself in the long run and hopefully add more housing and expand the Warehouse District.  So, I vote that one out. 

 

The Higbee (and out-of-the-running May Co.) building needs to be occupied, but I don't think the County is the ideal suitor for it.  I'd like to think we can get some retail back in there eventually, even if it's not all 8 floors.

 

The Atrium building is an atrocity and needs to be torn down and rebuilt, but again, I think this will be a job for private developers with offices/housing and lotsa retail involved.

 

Which leaves...the Ameritrust property.  I like the ideas that KJP mentioned about using the Rotunda as a public space of sorts and sticking the offices in the haunting (I've grown to love it) tower behind it.  This one gets my vote!

 

any updates?

you love that tower?

 

The Ameritrust Tower? 

 

Really?  The Ameritrust tower?

 

Really?  :?

 

( :evil:)

call me crazy!  come on, I know you want to! 

 

I don't know...I used to loathe that building, but now there's something magnificent about it.  I'd be sad if it ever came down...

 

(These images are from www.ClevelandSkyscrapers.com)

I favor the Ameritrust site.  That is one ugly building which no developer will tackle for any reason besides the county hq.  It would greatly help the E. 9th to Playhouse Square stretch of Euclid that needs a serious shot in the arm.  I don't see much else going up in that sector of Euclid.  The other half of Euclid has some nice momentum going with the HOB, etc., and therefore doesnt need as much help.  My second choice would be the Goldberg building.  But, I think that Maron is slowing marching that way anyways. Anyways, Goldberg already has a plan B for that building.  He tore off the facade so that he could get historic tax credits and has 200+ apartments planned for that building if it is not selected by the county.  The Higbee building is my third choice. The only thing that this site would benefit is Tower City.  I don't like the northern Warehouse district option.  We don't need any new office space and it would lose an opportunity to create a critical mass on Euclid.  This option is too isolated.

mister good day,

 

FYI: cleveland skyscrapers is Mayday

I go for the Ameritrust site. All the buildings just scream institutional. We got the nice classical old lookin Rotunda, which I agree would make great public space there; we got the tower itself which screams classical 60-70's era insitutional drab concrete look

^yeah, seriously would we expect any more out of gov't?

I think Ameritrust is best as well.  But god, I hate that building.  Not so much on the skyline, in which respect I think it has a certain brutal dignity, but at ground level, where it and the attached offices an parking garage create a very ugly and very dead zone on Euclid.  I know I just don't want to walk on that side of the street.  It just feels cold, dark, and dead.

yea they really need to move into the Ameritrust highrise... and paint it...

By the way folks - I have a copy of the original prospectus from 2003 that the Jacobs Group produced. I'll see if I can find it and scan some of the highlights. X, they plan to give that side a new entrance with a large glass canopy and other enhancements. That's if they go with the original proposal.

 

Speaking of - they recently opened the rotunda for a 'Euclid Avenue' retrospective. Your friendly neighborhood geek (me) peeked around a little and found these :-D

 

On an easel tucked away in the rotunda:

 

On the wall inside the lobby of the former Ameritrust Tower:

 

On another easel in the rotunda:

 

 

County Commisioners offices. Peter LAwson Jones et al.

 

The et al of relocated offices is quite a lengthy list, with each office having a large staff....Auditor, Recorder, Treasurer, Engineers, Auto/Boat Title Department, Boards of Elections, Health, Mental Retardation/Development Disabilities, plus planning, development, children's services, emergency management and other departments. I think I recall reading somewhere that 3,000 county employees would need to fit into whatever new building they select. For now, they're scattered in offices all over downtown.

 

Look in the blue section in the Cleveland white pages phonebook and you'll see how many county offices, boards and departments there are. It's a lot more than the county commissioners et al.

 

KJP

I think it has a certain brutal dignity

 

I think that's a great way to put it X! 

 

Like I said, I used to abhor that building, but just look at it...there's nothing as severe or dark as the Ameritrust Tower.  And on that note...don't even think about painting it!

 

I'm sensing another category coming up...

^Like, how government buildings before World War II used to be as beautiful as churches, and after the war, were ugly as sin?

 

KJP

Exactly.  Keep it as a cautionary tale of just how bad architecture can be. (I'm only half joking)  But I am glad to hear they are planning something to liven up the ground floor along East 9th.

Hey all, back on this topic...I'm not sure when the deadline for recommendations is, but I was able to speak with a couple individuals who are on the advisory panel for this decision last week and they were both adamant about the development residing on Euclid.  Across the board, people spoke with felt that the lakefront idea is way off course and that the focus right now should be on Euclid Avenue.  Now, which of the three Euclid Ave sites is preferred?  I couldn't get an answer out of these guys, but I'm going to make the assumption that they were behind the Ameritrust site, based on their reaction to my argument for it.  Go Euclid Ave!

I honestly see the Ameritrust site being selected as the finalist - just a gut feeling but if I had to place a bet...

I really like the Ameritrust site :-). However, something needs to be done to the outside of the tower. I am not an architect or engineer, so I will open this question out to the experts. Can that surface be painted? Call me corny but I think re-doing that tower, and making that more attractive will kind of go hand-in-hand with the rebirth of Euclid Ave.

The facade of the tower is composed of black granite and pre-cast concrete. Honestly, it's not unlike another reviled modernist monstrosity, the Pan Am (aka MetLife) Tower in NYC. The most you can do with the concrete "honeycomb" is to clean it (which did actually make a noticeable difference in the MetLife building). The black granite is pretty much fixed in place.

 

I've wondered if it was possible to make "inserts" that would fasten right over the 'bathtub' forms of pre-cast concrete. Of course, I'm not sure what materials would look right in that 'honeycomb' pattern...  :?

I doubt that they will touch the exterior of the tower.  Cost is very important to the county and such exterior changes would most likely be costly. 

 

That said, I wish that they would select the site.  They keep pushing back the deadline.  I also feel that the Ameritrust site is far and away the best.  It is the deadest spot on lower Euclid.  However, we really don't know the difference in the costs.  If the Higbee building is much cheaper, I could see the county going with that building.  i doubt that they will go will the Goldberg proposal.  New construction would seem to be the costliest option and thus preclude that option.

Ok, I mentioned earlier on this thread that the most likely option for the Atrium Building (the Goldberg property) would be to tear it down and start fresh.  What I did not know is that the existing building qualifies for Historic Preservation Tax Credits.  Who knew that building was a landmark??? (some of you did, I'm sure...)  So, it would be much more cost effective for whoever does decide to develop that building to renovate it and reuse it.  This throws a new light on the building for me, which currently looks like it's in the early stages of demolition.  Apparently, there's something worth saving under that ugly shell!

 

And I will say again that I love the Ameritrust Tower...no paint, no "inserts," just a tenant who will love it for what it is!

From what I gather, the Atrium building is being submitted for approval for Historic Pres. Tax Credits. To the best of my knowledge, it has not received that approval. I've also heard that the building has some structural issues in the levels below the street which would throw a wrench into any re-use plans.

 

aha!  It appears that that I may have misinterpreted this...so, it's only potentially historic...interesting!  Does anyone have any pictures of it in its original state???  I'm also curious about what Euclid & 9th Tower (across from Ameritrust) looked like back in the day...

 

 

" I'm also curious about what Euclid & 9th Tower (across from Ameritrust) looked like back in the day..."

 

She was a beaut, alright:

 

Now we have that addition that is god-awful.

bring her back!  someone puleeeeaze!!!

I wonder how much of that original facade is beneath the aluminum siding that they put up.  I mean, we've seen what's left of the Atrium after they took THAT face off.  It'd be awesome if they could rebuild that cupola as well.

I thought this was going to be the case, the rotunda has had some activity with sign removal on it.

I'm all for the skinning!  I say attach a nice sharply angled 17 story to it and then clad them both in glass.

 

The Goldberg plan sound good too.

 

Forest city just sounds desperate at this point.

 

I like the preferred plan to take over the Ameritrust Bank complex which is owned by Jacobs. If they go with this plan, there will be action either way: One is to see the AT Tower get stripped and re-finished, which in my opinion is a pretty building but it does need fixed up. Additionally, under that plan, a new 15-17 story would emerge, which is nice.. but best part is that the existing AT Tower and the new tower would have matching exterior designs. However, I am interested in seeing a 28 story building come down to the ground. The building is not historical and if it was to be re-built just as high, if not higher, then I am all for it. I guess plan 1 adds to the skyline, but plan 2 would be very exciting to witness in person, plus it will put Cleveland in the headlines, since this would be (I believe) the tallest building demolished in Cleveland, or anywhere in Ohio's history of demolished buildings.

 

-John

I'm thinking it would be pretty hard to demolish it without damaging the historic rotunda next door.  But if they could pull it off, then I'm all for a new building as well- make it curvy in that case.

[should this be merged with http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=1621.0;topicseen?]

 

I don't know that I understand the language...are we talking about demolishing the existing structure or just seriously renovating it, PLUS adding a new structure?  I doubt they'd buy the site, just to knock down the existing tower. 

 

I'm glad to hear that this is the frontrunner, as I think most of us expected it would be.  I think the other two will take care of themselves once the EC project is wrapping up... And the notion of taking out the Tower City Cinemas to build MORE parking at Tower City is ludicrous!

I'm all for the skinning! 

 

I say attach a nice sharply angled 17 story to it and then clad them both in glass.

 

The Goldberg plan sound good too.

 

Forest city just sounds desperate at this point.

 

i totally agree. i hope they dot the 'i's' and cross the 't's' and get cracking on it quickly.

 

if there is any delay, maybe rob roe could sweeten the deal by getting roger staubach out of retirement to qb the browns!

 

[should this be merged with http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=1621.0;topicseen?]

 

I don't know that I understand the language...are we talking about demolishing the existing structure or just seriously renovating it, PLUS adding a new structure? I doubt they'd buy the site, just to knock down the existing tower.

 

I'm glad to hear that this is the frontrunner, as I think most of us expected it would be. I think the other two will take care of themselves once the EC project is wrapping up... And the notion of taking out the Tower City Cinemas to build MORE parking at Tower City is ludicrous!

 

Sounds crazy, but yes, from the language, it seems that they are looking at the possibility of tearing everything down except the parking garage and then starting anew.

 

By the way, under the "skinning plan", the new 15-17 story tower would have no place to go unless if they demolish the building adjacent to the tower.  This is good news -the adjacent building is hideous.  Take a look at this picture to see what I mean. 

 

http://www.clevelandskyscrapers.com/countyproposal.jpg

Yeah, I'm for that...knock down the 4-story one.  I like AT tower, damnit!!!  Knocking it down would just be silly

I'd like to see them keep the AT tower as is, just cleaned and refurbished.  They can knock down that four story piece of crap and the skybridge for a new 15 story tower.  Did anyone notice that they are also mentioning tearing down another building for surface parking?  They already have a goddam parking garage! Do they really feel the need to put a surface parking lot into the most intact section of Downtown?  What building are they talking about, anyway?

hmm so redone outside with a new 15-17 story building or redo the whole thing with something bigger and taller and newer... its either good or good, ill take either.

 

i hope this gets done quickly, isnt it by the end of summer when they said they would start with the one they pick?

This is definately good news. Both of these options sound great. However, I do prefer the "skinning" of the AT tower and building an additional 15-17 story tower. If this plan is chosen I will be looking forward to seeing what the new exterior would look like, and of course what the new tower would look like.

X, I'm with you on the surface parking lot idea.

I'm with X, why and where would that surface parking lot go?  There is no way that plan could ever get approved by city planning. 

The only building I can think of on the site is 1010 Euclid (because Jacobs owns the tower, rotunda, 4-story section w/skywalk and the garage, *and* the 1010 Euclid Building which is connected to the tower). While it's not the most remarkable building, I find it hard to believe that the city would ever approve a surface lot right on Euclid Avenue: