Cuyahoga County plans to sell administration building, buy or lease new space

 

"Cuyahoga County Executive Ed FitzGerald wants to sell the County Administration Building, moving those and other offices into a consolidated complex, all within two years...

 

The recommendation to sell and move came from a 90-day study of 66 buildings the county owns and leases.

 

Allegro Realty Advisors Ltd., which led the study, the county paid $220,000 for, recommended eliminating 22 buildings to save $91 million. The study's Dec. 28 report advised selling the administration building, the Ameritrust complex and the former juvenile court, as well as terminating a lease for the engineer's office at the Stonebridge development on the West Bank of the Flats.

 

Federal charges say developer K&D Group furnished previous county officials with limousine rides and a free condominium for personal use in return for getting the engineer's lease.

 

The study recommended the county invest $35 million in 22 other properties, including the Justice Center, Lakeside courthouse and Whiskey Island. The remaining 22 buildings are in limbo."

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2012/01/cuyahoga_county_plans_to_sell.html

 

I've been looking for and hoping for this report for a long time. Glad to see it's finally done!!

 

I hope this is the start of the county selling their administration building, as well as the Ameritrust/Bruer Tower.

 

Given the amount of vacant office space downtown, I would think they would consolidate offices into an existing building IF they can find one with sufficient vacant space and floor plates large enough to meet their needs. One immediately comes to mind -- the Huntington Building at East 9th and Euclid. The 1.3 million-square-foot Huntington Building was 74 percent occupied before Huntington left and will be 50 percent occupied after Ernst & Young and  Tucker Ellis & West move out next year. Perhaps the remaining 600,000+ square feet of vacant space will be sufficient for the county's needs? One thing is for certain, it has an atrium one would expect from a public space!

 

I shot these photos last fall, days before this space was closed off to the public and left dark.....

 

 

 

I think the floor plates are an issue for the Huntington Buidling as well.  It was not built to provide a lot of contiguous space outside of that lobby.

 

^^I love the taking the bull by the horns approach, but I hope it gives MMPI enough time to evaluate whether that parcel is needed for an expansion of the mart.  It would be too bad if it is put to another use and then it turns out they underestimate the need for permanent showspace.

Really? The floorplates at the Huntington Building aren't big enough? Is it because the floorplates in the upper floors wrap around the light wells for the skylights to the big lobby?

 

If so, then maybe a big old warehouse structure (like Richman Brothers on East 55th, or Westinghouse at Edgewater) would do the trick. I would favor downtown, but where would there be a sprawling building sufficiently large for the county? Perhaps the George Worthington building on Johnson Court?

Yes, the skylights and I believe there are courtyards as well.  IIRC, the floorplates are around 65000..... so they are not as large as the exterior of the building would indicate.  Regardless, I was hoping for a single purpose building and I think the Huntington would be too big even factoring the county's consolidation plans.  I also think that it is a losing proposition if the County doesn't stay downtown.  This may be a situation where new construction is both warranted and capable of being financed.

Yes, the skylights and I believe there are courtyards as well.  IIRC, the floorplates are around 65000..... so they are not as large as the exterior of the building would indicate.  Regardless, I was hoping for a single purpose building and I think the Huntington would be too big even factoring the county's consolidation plans.  I also think that it is a losing proposition if the County doesn't stay downtown.  This may be a situation where new construction is both warranted and capable of being financed.

I thought I read the idea of consolidation was so that all business units were in a centralized location.  Have I missed something that suggest the county would move our build outside of downtown?

What about the vacant building on the southeast corner of East 9th and Superior?

Yes, the skylights and I believe there are courtyards as well.  IIRC, the floorplates are around 65000..... so they are not as large as the exterior of the building would indicate.  Regardless, I was hoping for a single purpose building and I think the Huntington would be too big even factoring the county's consolidation plans.  I also think that it is a losing proposition if the County doesn't stay downtown.  This may be a situation where new construction is both warranted and capable of being financed.

 

And I would not be surprised to see someone like Weston propose to build a new county administration building on one of the Warehouse District parking lots it owns. Maybe Jacobs might seek to the same thing for the Parking Lot On Public Square?

 

I thought I read the idea of consolidation was so that all business units were in a centralized location.  Have I missed something that suggest the county would move our build outside of downtown?

 

That's the idea. I was throwing out examples of large warehouse structures (not so much alternative locations) that would offer floorplates of sufficient size.

 

What about the vacant building on the southeast corner of East 9th and Superior?

 

1717 East 9th Street also has small floorplates, and the building's owner is advertising the building with renovated offices for new individual users -- not one massive new user.

 

I think Hts121 is correct. More and more, I think we're looking at new construction.

Yes, the skylights and I believe there are courtyards as well.  IIRC, the floorplates are around 65000..... so they are not as large as the exterior of the building would indicate. 

 

Here are floor plates for some of the county's buildings based on Google Earth's measuring tool.....

 

Existing county administration building, 1219 Ontario St: 44,000 square feet

Sterling Building, 1255 Euclid Ave: 40,000

Virgil E. Brown Building, 1640 Superior Ave: 40,000

Board of Elections, 2950 Euclid Ave: 12,000

Jane Edna Hunter Building, 3955 Euclid Ave: 55,000

 

Here's a few notable, undeveloped downtown sites:

The Parking Lot On Public Square (Jacobs): 48,000

St. Clair/W6/Frankfort/W9 (mixed owners): up to 130,000 (largest single parcel is 39,295sf owned by FAI Inc)

NW Corner of St. Clair & W3 (Weston): 46,000

St. Clair/W9/Frankfort (West 9th Street Investors LLC): 95,000

Prospect/E4/Huron/walkway (Arena Parking Investors LLC): 76,000

I just wanted to add the Area behind tower City between the Phase2 casino and the Federal court house.

 

It could be built as building the county would lease from Forest City.  Forest city would be able to build residential or office above, the County offices.  Using the County to attract the financing needed to build the building and the potential towers above it.

 

 

^ really like the idea, especially since standing on its own, this future county bldg. will likely be a major dead zone on nights and weekends.

^ really like the idea, especially since standing on its own, this future county bldg. will likely be a major dead zone on nights and weekends.

 

So is the federal courthouse. So you want two buildings with nearly identical hours/days of operation next to each other? Why not spread 'em around?

^I think his point was that it would not be a massive dead zone with the suggested apartments above the  county offices.

do we know yet how much space the county needs?  i remember there being a lot of debate about space needed and we still haven't found that out yet.

I used to work in the Huntington building.  The floor plate size is huge.  But, the biggest problem is that the building was built before air conditioning and there are two large light wells which divide the floor space.  The idea was to have all of the offices near a window to be able to open them in the summer heat for some air.  As a result there are no large floor areas for open office space which would accommodate a large number of cubicles.

 

I would like to see a 500' convention hotel built on the Cuyahoga County headquarters site.  Along with a much needed convention hotel, it is a great site to have skyscraper since it would be between the Justice Center and the Federal building.

There's not going to be any massive convention hotel (especially not one approaching 500' given the cost to hit bedrock in downtown Cle) without an expansion of the CC.  What we are getting is going to be real nice, but it will be on the smaller side.  Point being, that the County should first rule out an expansion of the CC and/or MM before that plot is dedicated to another use.

There's not going to be any massive convention hotel (especially not one approaching 500' given the cost to hit bedrock in downtown Cle) without an expansion of the CC.  What we are getting is going to be real nice, but it will be on the smaller side.  Point being, that the County should first rule out an expansion of the CC and/or MM before that plot is dedicated to another use.

 

this may be for a different thread, but how would you expand the CC to the county site?

 

the loading docks are directly east of the current building.

 

it would be very difficult to expand the exhibit hall into the current administration site, nevermind the costs of diging down to the depth of the future exhibit halls. 

 

 

There's not going to be any massive convention hotel (especially not one approaching 500' given the cost to hit bedrock in downtown Cle) without an expansion of the CC.  What we are getting is going to be real nice, but it will be on the smaller side.  Point being, that the County should first rule out an expansion of the CC and/or MM before that plot is dedicated to another use.

 

this may be for a different thread, but how would you expand the CC to the county site?

 

the loading docks are directly east of the current building.

 

it would be very difficult to expand the exhibit hall into the current administration site, nevermind the costs of diging down to the depth of the future exhibit halls. 

 

 

Yeah I was wondering the same thing. 

One of my biggest criticisms was that they didn't plan/allow for future expansion (which should have been a given considering its relatively small, exhibit halls). 

 

The 2 logical places to expand; one being north over the tracks has been impeded by making below Mall C ball rooms and additional conference rooms, and the other where the Admin bldg is, but like you said it is all the loading dock infrastructure.     

The Huntington Building site would be best for the region.  Its at the corner or Main & Main and the County's offices would help neighboring bars, restaurants, and property owners.  Plus their presence across the street would help the County sell the AmeriTrust Building!!

Sounds to me like the county is entertaining offers from developers for its administration building property. If so, then this speculation about expansion of the convention center is moot. Once somebody builds on the county admin building property (hotel, medical supply HQ, incubator, etc), it's over.

 

What intrigues me about all of this is:

 

> County sells its properties (admin, Brown, Hunter, elections, etc)

> County saves money from owning, leasing, operating, maintaining so many properties

> County uses that money to finance a new office building downtown on one of the many horrible, nasty, windswept, life-sucking, black hole, not even light can escape it parking lots down there.

 

So there.

Well actually the opposite is true and why its being mentioned. 

 

The Admin building site has long been mentioned as the likely the best possible site for a large convention hotel (even by the city) obviously because of its proximity and ability to interconnect. 

In a recent article it mentions the possibility of using the site as Med Mart/Convention Center expansion space.  We are saying with the convention centers small size that, 1. a convention size hotel may not be necessary or supported by the convention center (which by industry standards is considered small) and, 2. that they didnt have the forsight to plan for a feasable future expansion of the convention center (thus requiring a converntion sized hotel. 

 

Thus a timing and planning issue....  As Hts121 mentioned his concern of something else unrelated going in that spot too soon, thus ruling out the possibility of a med mart expansion there if eventually deemed necessary. 

 

Most cant imagine, other than a convention hotel there, what else would be attractive for a developer, other than of course if it becomes a best place for a consolidated administration building. 

 

 

My point is that someone wants to acquire the county site for whatever reason. I don't care what the reason is (aside from a nuclear waste dump or a surface parking lot -- note that both rank so low for me!). When the county sells the property, it can use the money to move forward on a consolidated county offices building (new or used). My interest (and the purpose of this thread) is that this could result in the construction of a new county office building downtown. Hopefully it takes up the space of a parking lot. What happens to the old county admin site? It's less my concern here and not an issue for this thread.

 

(So there)2

"Cuyahoga County Executive Ed FitzGerald wants to sell the County Administration Building, moving those and other offices into a consolidated complex, all within two years...

 

 

My point is that someone wants to acquire the county site for whatever reason. I don't care what the reason is (aside from a nuclear waste dump or a surface parking lot -- note that both rank so low for me!). When the county sells the property, it can use the money to move forward on a consolidated county offices building (new or used). My interest (and the purpose of this thread) is that this could result in the construction of a new county office building downtown. Hopefully it takes up the space of a parking lot. What happens to the old county admin site? It's less my concern here and not an issue for this thread.

 

(So there)2

 

If FitzGerald wants consolidation within 2 years, how is a new-build even a possibility?

 

 

 

"Cuyahoga County Executive Ed FitzGerald wants to sell the County Administration Building, moving those and other offices into a consolidated complex, all within two years...

 

 

My point is that someone wants to acquire the county site for whatever reason. I don't care what the reason is (aside from a nuclear waste dump or a surface parking lot -- note that both rank so low for me!). When the county sells the property, it can use the money to move forward on a consolidated county offices building (new or used). My interest (and the purpose of this thread) is that this could result in the construction of a new county office building downtown. Hopefully it takes up the space of a parking lot. What happens to the old county admin site? It's less my concern here and not an issue for this thread.

 

(So there)2

 

If FitzGerald wants consolidation within 2 years, how is a new-build even a possibility?

 

 

 

 

Everything doesn't have to move at once.  When BP was done, we didn't move immediately, we moved in waves.

 

When TWC was completed, some people shifted to other offices, then into the new building.

 

I'm not saying that is the case here, but stranger things have happened.

If FitzGerald wants consolidation within 2 years, how is a new-build even a possibility?

 

What I want and what I get are two very different things. ;) This is why this site is fun. We can use it to dream outside of the real world which is totally beyond our control.

There's not going to be any massive convention hotel (especially not one approaching 500' given the cost to hit bedrock in downtown Cle) without an expansion of the CC.  What we are getting is going to be real nice, but it will be on the smaller side.  Point being, that the County should first rule out an expansion of the CC and/or MM before that plot is dedicated to another use.

 

this may be for a different thread, but how would you expand the CC to the county site?

 

the loading docks are directly east of the current building.

 

it would be very difficult to expand the exhibit hall into the current administration site, nevermind the costs of diging down to the depth of the future exhibit halls. 

 

The new CC will be L-shaped, per my understanding, with the shorter part of the L going underneath the MM. So an expansion north from that point is not that much of a jump I would think.

It also seems possible that the convention center could absorb Public Auditorium down the line, but I'm not sure how much usable space that would really add.

 

As for the county offices, my guess is that it's going to come down to whichever downtown option minimally meets floors space size and configuration requirements and is least expensive.  Given the new political reality, I'm going to bet that economic development/downtown beautification won't be an explicit goal as it was for the 3 commissioners.  If it's new construction, I really hope it's on the Prospect walkway site (the county already owns the Gateway parking garage which generally isn't needed by the sports venues during business hours) or on West Superior.  I know we all want to see new build residential in the WHD, but I think county administration space might actually work pretty well above the proposed RTA bus station.  Project timing might not match up though.

 

In any case, I really hope the new county offices are in easy walking distance of Public Square to be easily accessible from the rapid and one way or another, the city needs to make sure the new offices don't start a new round of demolitions for more parking.  We've been bit by that unintended consequence a few times now.

That's true, Strap. The Justice Center combined with the city's carte blanche-approach to demolitions-for-parking lots caused a lot of the desolation we see in the Warehouse District these days.

 

OK, dream time. My preference is to see the RTA West Side Transit Center built as proposed in the block west of West 3rd. Then, in Jacobs' Parking Lot On Public Square, build the new county HQ a ground-floor public atrium complete with high ceilings and retail/cafes/newstands that's open 24 hours a day so pedestrians can pass through there between Public Square and the transit center. This would be topped by a half-dozen levels of employee and public parking where the first 30 minutes of parking is free, then topped by several open floors of offices/departments that the public regularly visits, then the building tapers inward a bit with a dozen or so more floors of back-office functions, record storage and then have the elected offices with the county council's hearing room on the very top floor with a high ceiling and tall windows. Altogether I envision at least a 30-story building there. :)

There's not going to be any massive convention hotel (especially not one approaching 500' given the cost to hit bedrock in downtown Cle) without an expansion of the CC.  What we are getting is going to be real nice, but it will be on the smaller side.  Point being, that the County should first rule out an expansion of the CC and/or MM before that plot is dedicated to another use.

 

this may be for a different thread, but how would you expand the CC to the county site?

 

the loading docks are directly east of the current building.

 

it would be very difficult to expand the exhibit hall into the current administration site, nevermind the costs of diging down to the depth of the future exhibit halls. 

 

The new CC will be L-shaped, per my understanding, with the shorter part of the L going underneath the MM. So an expansion north from that point is not that much of a jump I would think.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for posting biker.  Clearly you can see how expanding north from where the "L" juts out wouldnt really be possible. 

From what I recall, the only talk of future expansion involved the actual MM and not the Convention Center.  Obviously the loading docks shoot down any possibility of expanding the actual CC into the Admin. site.

From what I recall, the only talk of future expansion involved the actual MM and not the Convention Center.  Obviously the loading docks shoot down any possibility of expanding the actual CC into the Admin. site.

That would be correct.

Thanks for the correction, biker.  Possible expansion for the MM it is then.

Good, now on to discussion of the county headquarters relocation. What takes the place of the current admin building will likely be a topic of discussion someday for the MM/CC thread.

 

EDIT:

This is worth reading. A summary of the county properties study was posted at...

media.cleveland.com/metro/other/Real%20estate%20presentation.ppt

 

22 of 66 properties were categorized as an INVEST opportunity

 

Total 10 Year Present Value Savings = $-35.0MM

 

Key Drivers of Negative Savings:

Consolidated Admin Complex

Consolidated Storage Complex

 

Future Savings will come from:

-Restructured NFSC Leases

-CMSD Storage Opportunity

 

 

22 of 66 properties were categorized as a HOLD opportunity

 

Total 10 Year Present Value Savings = $0.0MM

 

Future Savings will come from:

Consolidated  Maintenance Yards

 

Divestiture of Marion and Courthouse Square

 

 

 

22 of 66 properties were categorized as a DIVEST opportunity

 

Total 10 Year Present Value Savings = $91.0MM [or $56 million net savings after investments to other existing properties]

 

Key Drivers of Positive Savings:

Administration Complex

Ameritrust Complex

Sterling Building

Old Juvenile Court Complex

Reserve Square

 

Rethinking Cuyahoga County's space could lead to benefits, direct and indirect: editorial

Published: Saturday, January 07, 2012, 11:15 AM

The Plain Dealer Editorial Board

 

For far too long, Cuyahoga County's pre-charter government accumulated property like a hoarder. Think of it as yet another unintended consequence of too many fiefs and too little accountability.

 

When consultants hired by County Executive Ed FitzGerald presented their preliminary report in late December, they identified 66 properties that the county either owns or leases, and concluded that fully a third are so extraneous or such money pits that they should be jettisoned.

 

But if Cuyahoga County can execute its moves well, it has a chance both to save money and make a broader economic impact. By vacating its current, nondescript administration building, the county can open up a potentially valuable piece of property adjacent to the new convention center and medical mart complex.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index.ssf/2012/01/rethinking_cuyahoga_countys_sp.html

BTW, I'm disappointed the report wasn't aggressive enough. I thought the county should also dispose of the Jane Edna Hunter Building, the Board of Elections and even the Virgil Brown Building. The last one may be a little tougher to do, but certainly the first two. Otherwise I don't see enough county office space being relinquished to justify new building construction.

The Bd of Elections needs to accomodate a lot of vehicle traffic on election nights.  The current location is barely sufficient for that as it is.  I doubt that a consolidated downtown site would work for them.  VB and JEH should definitely be part of any office merger.  Both sit on land that would be better for other uses, and getting those offices out of their respective neighborhoods would help the neighborhoods too.

^^ The Allegro report does have language suggesting "Impact to Community [sic]" should be weighed in space planning, but my hunch is that this effort is going to be much more focused on the county's bottom line and less focused on making an architectural splash than the last effort was.  Can't say I really object.

 

And not to rain on the PD's parade, but does anyone really see a "boutique hotel" moving into the juvenile court building?  I think the building has value, but I don't see its location being high on any hotel developer's list.

And not to rain on the PD's parade, but does anyone really see a "boutique hotel" moving into the juvenile court building?  I think the building has value, but I don't see its location being high on any hotel developer's list.

 

I agree. It might make for decent back-office building for St. Vincent Charity Hospital, or maybe even temporary housing for new-hire medical personnel from out of town working anywhere in the CSA system.

And not to rain on the PD's parade, but does anyone really see a "boutique hotel" moving into the juvenile court building?  I think the building has value, but I don't see its location being high on any hotel developer's list.

 

Yeah, I couldnt really think of a worse location for a boutique hotel (well ok I can).  The building is actually pretty cool, but also the Mather Mansion just over on Euclid is supposed to become a boutique hotel or bed and breakfast.. . 

Does anyone know how many new workers this county HQ relocation could bring to downtown?  How many employees work at the current HQ and how many would a new building be expected to hold?

It's not going to be as many as people think, or at least as many as I originally thought/hoped. I spoke with one of the top county officials yesterday and the person said the county offices that do relocate will probably go into an existing building downtown. This person also suggested that the owner of this building has already made a very good offer to the county. When I asked if the building's owner would also develop the old county administration site, the person shut down on me. That could mean yes or any number of things. But if it is yes, the question is, what downtown building owner also is a developer, and also may be willing and able to develop something on the existing administration building site?

^ I would be very surprised if the office consolidation and building disposition occurred in a packaged deal like that.

Besides, the county has to bid out whatever it wants to do, anyway.

KJP...if what you say is true I can only think of three buildings off the top of my head that would meet the county's needs.  That would be a substantial amount of contiguous space, parking for patrons and a large 1st floor presences for county services (filings, payments, record review and the like).  That would be the Huntington Bldg, East Ohio Gas and maybe Eaton Center (what is on the first floor?  Is a bank branch still there?)

Unloading the old juvenile court complex on E. 22nd could have been useful several years ago when the Innerbelt project was being laid out.  Regardless, it could still be very useful for the redesigning of the area as a "campus corridor" between CSU & Tri-C.

FRIDAY, MARCH 2, 2012

County offices may move to East 9th & Euclid after all

 

Although Cuyahoga County leaders officially remain mum on the subject, it looks like county administration offices may be moving to the corner of East 9th Street and Euclid Avenue after all. But it's not the same destination desired by the previous county commission government.

 

A real estate study conducted in late-2011 for the county by Allegro Realty Advisors Ltd. recommended selling off 22 of its 66 properties to save $91 million. Most of the savings for the county would come from selling properties or terminating leases at these five sites:  current administration building on Ontario Street, the ex-Ameritrust Center (aka Breuer Tower) at East 9th and Euclid, the Sterling Building on Euclid in Playhouse Square, the old Juvenile Court building on East 22nd Street and Reserve Square on East 12th Street.

 

Two top county officials -- a councilperson and a department head -- spoke off the record in pointing to the Huntington Building, 925 Euclid Ave., as the site where as much as 300,000 square feet of county office space and about 1,000 county employees could be consolidated. The address is across Euclid from the Breuer Tower and Cleveland Trust rotunda -- where the county previously sought to relocate. That property's 2005 purchase was approved by the former county commissioners four years before they were swept out of office by voters installing a reformist charter government.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2012/03/county-offices-may-move-to-east-9th.html

This only makes 100% sense and it would be great to have the great banking room back in use for county customer service.

 

The article indicated that the Huntington Building does not have direct enclosed indoor parking which is not true.  From the basement arcade you travel through the underground tunnel (under Chester) and acess the Huntington Garage.  No need to go outside and you pass by a few shops on your way in (this might even make some of the empty store fronts in the little arcade more marketable)

This only makes 100% sense and it would be great to have the great banking room back in use for county customer service.

 

The article indicated that the Huntington Building does not have direct enclosed indoor parking which is not true.  From the basement arcade you travel through the underground tunnel (under Chester) and acess the Huntington Garage.  No need to go outside and you pass by a few shops on your way in (this might even make some of the empty store fronts in the little arcade more marketable)

 

Thanks. I will make corrections.

About a month ago (and I mentioned this in another thread), I heard from a building source that a large tenant was going to take up either 9 or 11 stories in this building. Good to hear some more solid info on it now.