KJP is right. I don't know what everyone else is thinking here. By design, the County does not have the power to do the things that the city can in terms of setting design requirements, land use, zoning, etc. It would essentially cause a constitutional crisis if they did, as that would represent a gross usurpation of the (state) constitutional power of municipalities. Come on guys, no one remembers their Government classes? Sheesh.

I am very pedantic in that regard because I place a high value good grammar

 

KJP is right. I don't know what everyone else is thinking here. By design, the County does not have the power to do the things that the city can in terms of setting design requirements, land use, zoning, etc. It would essentially cause a constitutional crisis if they did, as that would represent a gross usurpation of the (state) constitutional power of municipalities. Come on guys, no one remembers their Government classes? Sheesh.

 

You guys are focusing too much on the authority to zone.  As they say in the land use business "owning is the best zoning."  There are many ways the county could heavily influence/dictate the development of the site.  As the current owner it could record deed restrictions, structure a contingent sale, or require submission of development plans and select the buyer whose plan it likes best.  As a political matter KJP might be right that the county will feel pressured to accept the highest bid, but X is right, saying it "can't" push for the development it wants is just not true.

 

KJP, yes, the Avenue District sale was by the city, but I thought you were looking for local examples of public land sales with these kinds of restrictions.  The county could certainly do anything the city did there--I don't believe the city rezoned the land as part of that transaction.

I am very pedantic in that regard because I place a high value good grammar

 

 

Nothing has changed. You've been on this forum for years and I haven't made your life miserable -- yet. :) Right? My father was an English teacher. This apple hasn't fallen far from that tree in that regard. I always correct other people's English (spelling, grammar etc). Of course, I'm sure others here will jump all over the me the next time I make a grammar error. And I will. So jump on it. I'm uses to it after haves my father corrected me for all them 45 years. ;)

 

So back to the topic........ This debate could be in the Breuer/Ameritrust Tower/Rotunda thread because I think that's where most of us are focused on the outcome of this property disposition. That would be the place where any "mistakes" would end up being the most visible. Although there are other notable properties, such as the existing county administration building, old juvenile courts building, Courthouse Square on Lakeside and others. All of those deserve good outcomes, but I'm especially worried for the juvenile courts building what with ODOT's ultra-deluxe, unsustainable vision for Interstate 90.

 

KJP, yes, the Avenue District sale was by the city, but I thought you were looking for local examples of public land sales with these kinds of restrictions.  The county could certainly do anything the city did there--I don't believe the city rezoned the land as part of that transaction.

 

Yes, public land sales by public entities, but those other than the city because it can control land use. I was thinking of entities like the county, school district, sewer district, port authority, RTA, etc. You're absolutely right about deed restrictions and sale contingencies. I just don't think the county would go to such lengths because I doubt it has an awareness of various land use choices and outcomes. Nor do I think it has a preservationist's moral compass when it comes to preferable outcomes (other than whether to demolish a building or not). Frankly I just don't think these things are high on their list of priorities. Getting value for the taxpayer -- especially after years of corruption -- is probably the dominant theme.

 

BTW, I may be wrong but I seem to recall that, as part of the sale, the city rezoned the Avenue District as a Planned Unit Development which is a type of form-based zoning when practiced in urban settings. I'd have to go back and look at old articles I wrote when this project started.

I'm used TO it after having my father correct me for 45 years.

 

:)

Aw dammit, I wanted to make fun of that first. Oh well.

Everyones favorite Plain Dealer reporter speculates on twitter about Halle Building for the county relocation. That or she is just really good with the link bait for this sites audience.

 

Michelle J. McFee ‏@mjarboe

Forest City aims to sell or enter makeover JV for #CLE's Halle Building. http://bit.ly/UITg7y  (Was talking to big office user. County?) #FCE

https://twitter.com/mjarboe/status/276852128532819968

 

Forest City Enterprises sees improved third quarter, signals change for Cleveland's Halle Building

By Michelle Jarboe McFee, The Plain Dealer

on December 06, 2012 at 7:45 PM, updated December 06, 2012 at 7:57 PM

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Forest City Enterprises Inc. will sell all or part of the Halle Building in downtown Cleveland, after ending negotiations with a potential large office tenant in October.

 

...

 

Forest City said it will sell the 400,000-square-foot office building or enter a joint venture to refashion it. To account for the change, the company took a $30.2 million loss on the property while reducing its value to $10.5 million.

 

...

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/12/forest_city_enterprises_sees_i.html

Sounds like the Halle Building is out of the picture for the administration building. I think that points strongly to the Huntington Building. If so, combine it with a reactivated Ameritrust Tower (and hopefully the Schofield one of these years), the corner of East 9th and Euclid is going to be the bustling corner of Main & Main once again.

County Executive Ed FitzGerald expects to announce a headquarters deal, along with a plan to sell the long-vacant Ameritrust complex at East Ninth Street and Euclid, on Tuesday.

 

 

Anyone have guesses on who the "unidentified potential tenant looking to lease much of the Halle Building" was? 

^I would imagine it was the county which means KJP is probably right about the Huntington Building.

Could also have been the school district. Not sure how far they've gotten, but if they are announcing plans to auction their current building, they may have begun scouting out new locations.

 

Bringing us back a little more on topic, I'm very curious what sort of strings might be attached to any sale of the current county admin building. Given the slow pace of the Kimpton and JHB building developments, it's tough to know how much demand hoteliers/financiers project for hotel rooms even after the CC opens.  Might take a couple years of high occupancy rates to make the case.  And maybe some public money.

Anyone have guesses on who the "unidentified potential tenant looking to lease much of the Halle Building" was?

I think we're all assuming it was the Cuyahoga County government. It makes sense given the timing of Forest City "ending negotiations" a week before the county announces the winning bid. The county apparently asked for renovations and FCE balked. Those miserable SOB's are unwilling to spend even one cent in the city they supposedly call home. Their loss is Optima's gain (probably).

 

edit: should have refreshed the thread before posting -- beaten by two other people.

I'm told Weston was a player right up to the end in terms of building a new county administration on one of the parking lots in the Warehouse District. They had a pretty good proposal, from what I learned today. Optima had a better one.

Count me as not a big proponent of a hotel being plopped down where the current admin bldg sits.  If there ever was a 'wait and see' lot, this is it.  At least get the MM up and running first to gauge popularity and demand before taking away its only room for expansion

We need more hotel rooms anyway. I thought that was indisputable at this point. We need more rooms. The Convention Center, at least in the first 3-4 years, will increase demand for hotel rooms. The CC will definitely increase demand because the city, for all intents and purposes, hasn't had a working, functioning convention center since 2006. So, regardless of the performance of the MM, we need more hotel rooms anyway

Count me as not a big proponent of a hotel being plopped down where the current admin bldg sits.  If there ever was a 'wait and see' lot, this is it.  At least get the MM up and running first to gauge popularity and demand before taking away its only room for expansion

 

It truly would have to be a convention-sized, self-contained hotel because it's not near many amenities in the immediate area.

Disposition of certain county properties will be discussed at a regular county council meeting, at 5 p.m. Tuesday (unless there is an earlier press conference)....

http://council.cuyahogacounty.us/en-US/CM-12112012.aspx

 

Given the scale and scope of the staff recommendation, the council will probably not pass this on emergency. Instead it will go through the requisite readings at three separate council meetings.

 

The agenda item of interest is item F, Resolution R2012-0264 on Page 4. The agenda can be downloaded at the link above, but don't bother. Unlike every other resolution listed on the agenda, this resolution was included among the attachments to the agenda by the administration. So council will get the resolution tomorrow along with the rest of us.

Here ya go......

 

http://executive.cuyahogacounty.us/en-US/Ameritrustt-tobesold-121112.aspx

 

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

 

Media contacts:

John O’Brien 216‐698‐2099, or [email protected] or

Nicole Dailey Jones: (216) 263‐4602, (216) 338‐0863 or [email protected]

 

Download a PDF of this release

 

FITZGERALD TO DESCRIBE REDEVELOPMENT AND CONSOLIDATION PLAN FOR OTHER COUNTY-OWNED BUILDING

 

Cleveland – Cuyahoga County Executive Ed FitzGerald will announce the redevelopment and consolidation plan for County‐owned buildings, including the Ameritrust complex. The county has 225,000 square feet of downtown Cleveland offices, 200,000 square feet of storage facilities and thirteen buildings offered for sale. The County received thirty‐one bids from companies seeking government buildings or to meet the county's request for new headquarters.

 

What: Announcement of County Property Sales

 

When: December 11. 2012 - 2:00 p.m.

 

Where:

Cuyahoga County Ameritrust Rotunda,

900 Euclid Avenue, Cleveland, Ohio 44115

 

Who:

Ed FitzGerald, Cuyahoga County Executive

Bonnie Teeuwen, Director, Cuyahoga County Public Works

Ryan Jeffers, CBRE

Is this open to public?

Is this open to public?

 

Legally, it should be since it was posted on the county's website. There could be someone at the door to check media credentials, but they have no legal standing to keep anyone out. Print out a copy of the press release (http://executive.cuyahogacounty.us/pdf_executive/en-US/PressReleases/2012/121210%20-AmeritrustComplex-tobe-Sold.pdf) and bring it with you. If anyone says you can't come in, ask them where on the PR does it say you can't come in. And if it's private, ask why did they post the event publicly on the website.

So, anyone willing to guess on where the CCHQ will end up?

Huntington Building?  Lakefront?

 

I was hoping for a Mjarboe scoop by now

So, anyone willing to guess on where the CCHQ will end up?

Huntington Building?  Lakefront?

 

I was hoping for a Mjarboe scoop by now

 

I continue to stand by my story from last March....

http://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2012/03/county-offices-may-move-to-east-9th.html

All discussions regarding the Cuyahoga County administration building relocation are relocated to the Breuer Tower-Ameritrust property thread.

 

This thread will be for discussion of how the remaining properties are disposed. Ultimately we may split out additional discussions from this thread for major projects as they emerge.

Anyone know when the county is supposed to announce the winning bid for the consolidated, 200,000-square-foot storage facility? That's the second phase of the county's property strategy.

 

I am also trying to find the timeline for announcing the third phase, which is the disposition of the remaining 13 or so properties -- including the existing county HQ. I am becoming convinced that site MUST be used for a convention-sized hotel if the MM/CC is to succeed.

Anyone know when the county is supposed to announce the winning bid for the consolidated, 200,000-square-foot storage facility? That's the second phase of the county's property strategy.

 

I am also trying to find the timeline for announcing the third phase, which is the disposition of the remaining 13 or so properties -- including the existing county HQ. I am becoming convinced that site MUST be used for a convention-sized hotel if the MM/CC is to succeed.

 

I am as well!  But not just for the MM/CC but for leisure tourism as well.

Michelle J. McFee ‏@mjarboe 50m

 

MT @lauraejjohnston: #CuyahogaCounty will spend $10 million to lease space for archives in Halle Warehouse on E. 40th St. until 2024.

View conversation

Michelle J. McFee ‏@mjarboe 50m

 

RT @lauraejjohnston: Looks like #CuyahogaCounty has a deal to sell the county archives building to Welcome House Inc. for $650,000.

View conversation

Michelle J. McFee ‏@mjarboe 50m

 

MT @lauraejjohnston: #CuyahogaCounty will spend $10 million to lease space for archives in Halle Warehouse on E. 40th St. until 2024.

View conversation

Michelle J. McFee ‏@mjarboe 50m

 

 

Well THAT'S disappointing. Sounds pricey for what they're getting.

Well THAT'S disappointing. Sounds pricey for what they're getting.

 

$1 million per year for 208,000 sq ft is too pricey? I love the move. A historic building gets filled and the county doesn't spend a ton in the process.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2013/07/cuyahoga_county_to_rent_storage_space_in_halle_warehouse_as_part_of_consolidation.html

 

Oops! I misread it and thought it said $10 million per year.

"The county received seven proposals for storage space, including a plan from Optima Ventures to use part of the old Huntington Building, last September."

 

Poor Optima is just saying, "WILL SOMEONE PLEASE PUT SOMETHING IN THIS BUILDING?! ANYTHING!"

Sounds like a good outcome.  Devoting so much space downtown to a low-population use would have been slightly disappointing.

"The county received seven proposals for storage space, including a plan from Optima Ventures to use part of the old Huntington Building, last September."

 

Poor Optima is just saying, "WILL SOMEONE PLEASE PUT SOMETHING IN THIS BUILDING?! ANYTHING!"

 

Department store!  Having said that, lets not get off topic! HA!

Well THAT'S disappointing. Sounds pricey for what they're getting.

 

$1 million per year for 208,000 sq ft is too pricey? I love the move. A historic building gets filled and the county doesn't spend a ton in the process.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2013/07/cuyahoga_county_to_rent_storage_space_in_halle_warehouse_as_part_of_consolidation.html

 

 

What planet do you live on where $1,000,000 a year for 200k SF in a incorrectly repurposed building is a good deal? $5/sf is a HUGE number, even for NEW industrial space.  This is a goddamn joke

RT @lauraejjohnston: Looks like #CuyahogaCounty has a deal to sell the county archives building to Welcome House Inc. for $650,000.

View conversation

 

Ooops, I almost missed this part.  This is a fairly prominent site in Ohio City.  I'm slightly disappointed and surprised a residential developer didn't jump on it, but sounds like a nice organization that did: http://www.welcomehouseinc.org/

The Foran Group also put a bid on the property, but the County did not choose them for whatever reason. Foran is doing the apartment project at Church Ave & west 25th.

What planet do you live on where $1,000,000 a year for 200k SF in a incorrectly repurposed building is a good deal? $5/sf is a HUGE number, even for NEW industrial space.  This is a goddamn joke

 

The county clearly wasn't looking for straight industrial space. A quick look for warehouse space on Loopnet shows space anywhere from $1 to $6 psf, the latter being speculative new construction on a green field.

 

http://www.loopnet.com/Ohio/Cleveland_Warehouses-For-Lease/

 

Go ahead and find the county a cheaper space that will function as a working office and storage facility for less. Oh, and it has to be near downtown. Let's see some comparables.

I thought rent per square foot was usually calculated at a monthly rent rate.  At $1M/yr, it is less than 50 cents/SF

Commercial leases are usually quoted at sq ft per year.

I was just commenting on roserob's opinion that $5/sf is not a good deal.  I think he was comparing that to the more common rent/sf monthly numbers we more commonly talk about on this site

$1,000,000 a year for a warehouse to store documents is a poop-ton of money, any way you slice it.

What would be a fair, market rate for 200,000sf?  (I honestly don't know).  The County is strictly required by law to have an easily accessible storage facility for hard copies of original documents, so the salt mines under Lake Erie are not an option.  Maybe they could have paid less for a facility in one of the outer burbs?

$1,000,000 a year for a warehouse to store documents is a poop-ton of money, any way you slice it.

 

It's on the high end of the range, but you have to take into consideration what needs they have, i.e. climate control, reinforced flooring (for the weight of the files), how much related office space (if any) there is, security needs, how much build out/ improvements the landlord is undertaking to customize the space for the tenant. I'm no warehouse expert, but you can't compare the cost of leasing space in a steel building vs. a more mixed use type building. I mean, you can, it's a free country, but there's a reason there's a range for these types of things.

$1,000,000 a year for a warehouse to store documents is a poop-ton of money, any way you slice it.

 

It's on the high end of the range, but you have to take into consideration what needs they have, i.e. climate control, reinforced flooring (for the weight of the files), how much related office space (if any) there is, security needs, how much build out/ improvements the landlord is undertaking to customize the space for the tenant. I'm no warehouse expert, but you can't compare the cost of leasing space in a steel building vs. a more mixed use type building. I mean, you can, it's a free country, but there's a reason there's a range for these types of things.

Not to mention a central location.

The building that (most of?) these files are moving from is being sold for $650,000 outright, per the artcle.  Couldn't they at least get a year's rent on their new digs from selling their old digs?  And since when does East 40th Street, half of which goes through the projects, command any sort of premium?

The building that (most of?) these files are moving from is being sold for $650,000 outright, per the artcle.  Couldn't they at least get a year's rent on their new digs from selling their old digs?  And since when does East 40th Street, half of which goes through the projects, command any sort of premium?

 

It's hard to say what the old digs are worth without knowing it's current condition. And it's hard to tell if the Halle Warehouse is a bad deal without knowing details of the planned renovations and build-out (aside from new windows, which aren't cheap).

 

I mean, ultimately the county could have gotten screwed. It doesn't seem like it to me at first glance. Especially considering the cleveland.com article mentioned that the final lease rates were a result of months of negotations and a bidding war.

Weston emerges as potential buyer of three of Cuyahoga County's downtown Cleveland buildings

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- A Warrensville Heights developer could pay $3.4 million for a trio of Cuyahoga County's downtown Cleveland properties, including a Warehouse District office building that might become apartments.

 

Weston Inc. has emerged as the likely buyer for the Marion Building, the Superior Auto Title building and the Hamilton Garage, three of the 13 properties that the county put up for sale last year. The sales are part of a larger government real estate shuffle, as the county prepares to consolidate its offices in a new headquarters building at East Ninth Street and Prospect Avenue.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2013/08/weston_emerges_as_potential_bu.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Awesome to hear! WHD hasn't had any new apartments in years!

I'm really cheering for Weston.  I'm glad to see a new downtown residential developer/landlord enter the market and I think Weston gives us the best chance of doing something with those parking lots bordered by St. Clair, West 6th, West 3rd and Superior. 

So we have about 5-6 name office to apartment developers in downtown.

1) Maron 2) K & D 3) CRM 4) Geis 5) Weston