Call me a pessimist.  In any case, is not a near certainty that the building on Euclid is going to come down?

 

Oh ok!  well stop it already.....  :-P

I think the site is perfect but I do agree that they should save the tower.

 

Anyone know what the timetable is here ... I've heard that the County moves really slowly and it could be another 5 years before the project is up.

It is going to take five years - because they do not have the $ to start anything yet (except for the asbestos remediation, which is going on now).

At the presentation at CSU this past fall, we were told things would likely not start until 2012, if my memory serves me correctly.

So they are going to leave the buildings gutted for 5 years?!  I don't understand why they won't even consider spinning of 1010 Euclid to a private developer for rehab and just building on the tower and 50's low rise crap site.

^I agree with you about 1010 Euclid.  It is really annoying how none of the articles (I just rescanned quickly) squarely address that nice old building, though all of the renderings certainly betray its future.  What a waste.

 

If there are real cost savings or advantages to consolidating county offices, I really wonder why the county didn't just select one of the many vacant parcels along Euclid Avenue or elsewhere downtown instead of pissing public money away demolishing viable buildings.  I really don't see the magic of putting this on Euclid- this isn't going to "energize" Euclid anymore than the Justice Center energized the warehouse district in the 1970s.

^Seriously?

 

How can 5,000 (just a guess) people in one location not have some sort of positive spin-off for Euclid and 9th, regardless of its new or rebuilt.

Don't get me wrong, I totally realize this will come at a cost to all off the other locations county departments are moving from, but this is a huge plus for that part of the CBD. You cannot compare the Justice Center with this. The JC is a fortress with all of its energies focused on the inside and the lower socio-economic status people that frequent it. Not so much with a consolidated county office.

But I could be wrong.

"You cannot compare the Justice Center with this."

 

Amen. The Justice Center brought the leveling of much of the Warehouse District in order to provide ample parking. That won't be happening here. 

 

As far as the 1010 Euclid Building - it was slated to be demo'd way back in the early 70s (before I was born) for the second phase of the Cleveland Trust Tower. Sure, it's a decent old building but it's not terribly remarkable.

 

As far as the 1010 Euclid Building - it was slated to be demo'd way back in the early 70s (before I was born) for the second phase of the Cleveland Trust Tower.

 

Cute....I like the way you slid that in there.

 

I agree, that building isn't a loss, however, the concentrated emplyment zone will be a huge boom to the revitalization of downtown as a whole.

 

As others have stated, the JC is a white elephant that hurts its immediate area.  The JC is just sucking up space.

The old building is not too architecturally significant, but it's part of an almost "still life" appearance that is currently created by the Breuer Tower, Rotunda, and the 1010 Euclid Building when viewed from the NCB Plaza (I hate that plaza by the way).

Here are some pics from a recent jaunt down Euclid Avenue that focused on the Breuer Tower and the rest.

Also, I've heard that a cleaning crew was power washing a precast concrete module on the E9th side of the building to see what condition the concrete is in.  It's visible to the naked eye, but I think cleaning the windows and marble facade would make the most significant difference.  Could this be a sign of a changing opinion to keep the tower in the County Administration?  I sure hope so.

Sooo, if someone had their camera and ran out this afternoon to take a pic, would the powerwashing be evident? :-)

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying "yeehaw, take down 1010 Euclid". It's a nice, taller old building and I agree it creates a nice backdrop for the tower and rotunda. I just think that if something has to go, I'd rather see it demo'd for the completion of the tower's second phase. We definitely agree on one thing - the proposal you posted is absolutely atrocious. It's like a b@stardized version of the Clinic's Heart Center and a sloppy "homage" to the rotunda.

^Seriously?

 

 

Yup, seriously.  The early articles said 2000 employees, and the square footage has been reduced from 500K to 350K since then, I believe, so could be even less.  Now 2000 people or even 1500 is nothing to sneeze at, but it's a mere incremental increase to the tens of thousands who already work in a very small radius from Euclid and 9th, so unless this is some tipping point, I don't know why it would change things.

 

More fundamentally, as has been discussed before, there are many office districts much bigger than Cleveland's which are also lifeless.  9 to 5 employees are great for food courts and maybe some restaurants (though I don't see county employees paying big bucks for lunch) but I doubt very much more.

 

And yeah, 1010 Euclid is not itself a timeless gem, but I'm with w28th.  Especially when there is soooo much vacant land all over the city.

I just think that if something has to go, I'd rather see it demo'd for the completion of the tower's second phase.

 

Well I guess that was the whole point of my complaint ...the only reason something "has to go" is because the county chose this site despite the many many other vacant options.

Sooo, if someone had their camera and ran out this afternoon to take a pic, would the powerwashing be evident?

 

You got it.  It's visible but not blatently obvious.  I would have liked to have taken it myself, but no camera in hand.

I'll try to snap a pic tomorrow.

Sweet.  Hopefully this is a step towards protecting Musky's planet of the apes fantasy.

Mmmmmmm... APES!!!!

Well par for the course, the washing looks like it was done in perfect Cleveland half-@ssed fashion :roll:

 

 

Where's Mommie Dearest when you need her - "do you think it's CLEAN!?!?! We'll clean it TOGETHER!!!!"

Yeah, not much of a difference with that poor effort, but if the whole building was professionally cleaned (it looks like Peter Lawson may have just washed it with a washcloth for God sake), it would make a huge difference.  The precast units just give the building so much depth and play on shadow, something the NCB Tower, Erieview, Federal Building, and Fifth Third buildings can't compare to.  I honestly think this may be one of the most interesting structures in the city and would certainly be an architectural travesty if this comes down. 

U-G-L-Y

 

Well par for the course, the washing looks like it was done in perfect Cleveland half-@ssed fashion :roll:

 

 

Where's Mommie Dearest when you need her - "do you think it's CLEAN!?!?! We'll clean it TOGETHER!!!!"

Well, you say it's ugly so I guess it should be torn down.  Pfff.  People also thought tearing down the Warehouse District in the 1970's was a good idea.

If we listened to the opinions of the average American about design, we'd have cities full of gabled roof buildings with vinyl siding, front lawns, cul-de-sacs, and plastic doric columns framing every entrance.

has anyone seen the AIA display in the windows on huron?  it suggest using the preformed concrete (if building is torn down), and placing it on the front of the AIA building on huron.

 

they also have some interesting ideas on new entrances to the building.  i don't know how realistic this project is, or if it is just a concept. 

Glad to hear AIA is actually asserting itself a little bit!

There was a storefront design competition, and they should be announcing winners soon.  The entry called for a canopy/storefront/display membrane for local architecture firms.  Using the existing precast shapes as a facade treatment was one of the entries for the competition.  I was part of a group that had a submittal and it will be interesting to see what everone else has come up with.

nice!

Well, you say it's ugly so I guess it should be torn down.  Pfff.  People also thought tearing down the Warehouse District in the 1970's was a good idea.

If we listened to the opinions of the average American about design, we'd have cities full of gabled roof buildings with vinyl siding, front lawns, cul-de-sacs, and plastic doric columns framing every entrance.

 

I don't think this is very fair. You shouldn't have to be an architect to decide if you like the way  something looks and feels.

I haven't heard many architects say that this is a "good" or "attractive" building.  The arguments seems to boil down to the fact that it was a piece of 70's celebrity architecture, and therefore worth saving.  Hardly a convincing reason to keep the building, imo.

I agree Jamiec, but I think in this case the opinions of experts should at least be taken into consideration though. 

Example:

If you had a cut on your arm (poorly upkept Breuer Tower), and your friends (County Commissioners) told you to cut your arm off get a prosthetic one (tear down Breuer Tower for a new one), but the doctor said to get stitches, wouldn't you take the advice of the doctor?

Other than the architects that work for the firms that submitted proposals for demolition (one firm even bucked the direction that the County Commissioners gave, and submitted a scheme that kept the tower), not one worth his reputation thinks this building should be torn down.

The decisions here are being made by politicians that have no design training.  I just don't want lawyers to be making choices on architecture that will be in our city for many decades.

The current situation would be a little more acceptable if the proposals for new construction were anything intriguing.

I hope that building gets torn down, it is so ugly!

I think the tower is ugly, too, although it's architecturally interesting.  I like the idea of encasing it in glass.  That would give it a presentable façade while preserving it at the same time.  I wonder how much that option would cost.

I prefer the idea of encasing it in a landfill.

I was recently in toronto.  they have several brutalist/bunker style buildings like this on bloor street, the fashion/shopping center of the city.  and they look great with hundreds of people walking in and out of them. 

 

it would be a shame to lose a building like this because someone thought it was ugly.  it is unique.  like an ugly dog.  you love it for how ugly it is.  there is no need for it to be torn down.  especially when the alternative is a cookie cutter office building with no appeal at all to it.  I look at their designs and wish they could be more exciting, even more ugly.  mor anything.  instead of just another glass tower, or whatever.  wash it off(for real this time) and reuse it.     

I like the idea of putting it in a landfill! Maybe even use it to make another break wall in the lake! Well hey, at least they didn't build the twin of this building that they were planning to build, then we would be stuck with two ugly dogs! They probably didn't build the twin because they seen what the first one looked like! At least you can get rid of an ugly dog pretty easy, but that's not the case with a building....

So many exclamation points for a ridiculous posting.

I propose that anybody with an ugly, but smart and interesting, family member should have that family member killed.  Because, my God, there Soooooooooo ugly!

I second the motion.

 

 

Ands whats up with all these Beaux Arts buildings everywhere. Enough.

Tear them down, too

it looked nice tonight with one upper floor lit up.  i think this building is fine as part of the greater downtown fabric, not necessarily by itself.  clean it, light it, and put some people inside, and it works for me. 

^^^Right on Glutmax.

As I've said, emphatically before, tearing down any skyscraper, especially in a struggling (business-wise) downtown as Cleveland's, is the height of stupidity-- esp to replace it with a more squat one.  And, no, this building is not butt-ugly as so many of you are stating.  It may not be THE most beautiful building, but I find art in it.  It's a svelte, modern high rise.  What the hell is wrong with it!!?? And, even MayDay (who doesn't like it) admits that if you PROPERLY cleaned the damn thing, it would look even better... Are any of you prepared to say Nat'l City's sugar cube on end sitting directly at our important 9th-Euclid corner is prettier?

 

If you are, you're either totally disingenuous or I need to get you to Jone's Optical with the quickness.

"And, even MayDay (who doesn't like it)"

 

I've never said that I don't like it - I'm not saying it's my favorite but my tastes are not black and white.

As I've said, emphatically before, tearing down any skyscraper, especially in a struggling (business-wise) downtown as Cleveland's, is the height of stupidity-- esp to replace it with a more squat one.  And, no, this building is not butt-ugly as so many of you are stating.  It may not be THE most beautiful building, but I find art in it.  It's a svelte, modern high rise.  What the hell is wrong with it!!?? And, even MayDay (who doesn't like it) admits that if you PROPERLY cleaned the damn thing, it would look even better... Are any of you prepared to say Nat'l City's sugar cube on end sitting directly at our important 9th-Euclid corner is prettier?

 

If you are, you're either totally disingenuous or I need to get you to Jone's Optical with the quickness.

 

Ugliness and attractiveness are of course subjective.  IMO, both buildings are quite ugly.  Nat City however, is occupied and suits the need of its occupants.  At any rate one ugliness doesn't excuse another.  Neither does pedigree or age negate ugliness.  And height qualifies not one iota in how well downtown Cleveland will do business-wise.

 

I propose that anybody with an ugly, but smart and interesting, family member should have that family member killed.  Because, my God, there Soooooooooo ugly!

 

If we would like to discuss the non-aesthetic merits of this building, that's fine.  I'll begin by noting that the county has decided that the floor plates are too small for their intended use and that a new building would suit their purposes better.

^condo rehab!

^Ape habitat.

Or giant wasps.

Or a prison for UrbanOhioans who utter such frivolities!  :whip:

^Now THAT'S an idea!

 

^Now THAT'S an idea!

 

 

HOLY SHIT!  THE QUEENS 2007 ENTRANCE!  LOVE IT!

Did someone say prison?  Well that reminds me of the one building in our skyline that is uglier- The Justice Center!  And it's even more anti-urban at street level!

Not sure how the Breuer building is anti-urban at street level, the entrance could be one of the most interesting in the city if it were cleaned and utilized.

Also, you the opinions of the County Commissioners are now considered valid X?  These are the same commissioners who have no problems spending $40 million to get to a point of having no building.  I say their intelligence can be greatly questioned, as well as those who think this building should come down simply because they think it's ugly.

Here's an idea....I walked by the tower yesterday. How about instead knocking down that small three or four story building that has the skywalk across Huron to the parking deck behind the tower? Maybe they could create something really small but really amazing over that space, which could create better interaction? I hate that smaller building much more than I hate the tower.

Great idea, jamiec!