5 minutes ago, urb-a-saurus said:

Where are the ground side facilities, ie ticketing and baggage claim relat8ve to the curved buildimg?

Behind it. The square building. 

This is all pending whether or not CMH moves. Apparently, there are multiple powers that be that have a serious behind the scenes process to move CMH out of the city. Down to land acquisition and environmental studies. 

 

Can't get in to much more detail than that but it might also explain why CMH has seemingly been slow rolling the process they were initially eager about. 

 

I imagine city leaders will fight tooth and nail but from what I've been gathering, it seems like said these other powers are putting up a behind the scenes fight for relocating the airport. 

Edited August 11, 20231 yr by DTCL11

9 minutes ago, DTCL11 said:

This is all pending whether or not CMH moves. Apparently, there are multiple powers that be that have a serious behind the scenes process to move CMH out of the city. Down to land acquisition and environmental studies. 

 

Can't get in to much more detail than that but it might also explain why CMH has seemingly been slow rolling the process they were initially eager about. 

 

I imagine city leaders will fight tooth and nail but from what I've been gathering, it seems like said these other powers are putting up a behind the scenes fight for relocating the airport. 

Seems like a dumb idea. I don’t fly often, but I would hate to see it moved. Part of what makes it so nice is that it’s super close to everyone in the city and takes no time to get to. 

3 minutes ago, DTCL11 said:

This is all pending whether or not CMH moves. Apparently, there are multiple powers that be that have a serious behind the scenes process to move CMH out of the city. Down to land acquisition and environmental studies. 

 

Can't get in to much more detail than that but it might also explain why CMH has seemingly been slow rolling the process they were initially eager about. 

 

I imagine city leaders will fight tooth and nail but from what I've been gathering, it seems like said these other powers are putting up a behind the scenes fight for relocating the airport. 

I don't know how old you are, but if you can remember back to the 80's when the Fed turned LCK over to the county. LCK became a thriving cargo airport with all of the major carriers. The success was so profound, the county talked about constructing 5 more 11K runways spaced a mile apart to be infilled with warehouses, manufacturing, and factories or every sort. Jumbo's  could fly in from around the world and pull right up to the building they were looking for. In addition, there was talk about moving CMH to the LCK site. The talk became so loud that the state cancelled a $1M dollar landscaping project to beautify the entrance to CMH. The thinking was why spend that much money on an airport that was going to move anyway. Those were grand plans,  but they came to a crashing halt with a deep recession and most of the cargo carriers went out of business and the plans for moving CMH were put back on the shelf to collect dust. The moral of my story is if what you say is true about the civic leaders wanting a new location, it wouldn't be the first time those leaders thought about moving CMH.

13 minutes ago, John7165 said:

I don't know how old you are, but if you can remember back to the 80's when the Fed turned LCK over to the county. LCK became a thriving cargo airport with all of the major carriers. The success was so profound, the county talked about constructing 5 more 11K runways spaced a mile apart to be infilled with warehouses, manufacturing, and factories or every sort. Jumbo's  could fly in from around the world and pull right up to the building they were looking for. In addition, there was talk about moving CMH to the LCK site. The talk became so loud that the state cancelled a $1M dollar landscaping project to beautify the entrance to CMH. The thinking was why spend that much money on an airport that was going to move anyway. Those were grand plans,  but they came to a crashing halt with a deep recession and most of the cargo carriers went out of business and the plans for moving CMH were put back on the shelf to collect dust. The moral of my story is if what you say is true about the civic leaders wanting a new location, it wouldn't be the first time those leaders thought about moving CMH.

 

This seems more of powers that be trying to poach for status and tax dollars more than anything. It, to understanding is less about CMH seeking it, than folks trying to lure CMH away. It does not appear that CMH is seeking these.  It seems very 'Look, Denver did it. So can we'.

 

Now, if the effort was to combine LCK and CMH, I can see a justification for that and that was my first thought and question but it doesn't *seem* to be the case. 

 

As a Passenger airport, CMH doesn't lack for space or have major runway deficiencies. It is capabale of handling way more than it does in terms of runways volume and plane size.  It's shortcomings are the terminal and passenger traffic. And the terminal will address it. And any influence of Intel wanting better international capabilities through gates and customs can also be addressed at the current location. 

 

And I can't imagine the convention center and city being ok with an airport 45 minutes away without guaranteed rail connection. 

 

IF you can sell combining CMH and LCK, with direct rail connection downtown AND Amtrak... maybe. But I also don't know that that's the vision. If it is, GREAT. But with the entities I know to be involved, I'm not confident that such a grand vision is in their cards. 

 

But yes. I agree. Could be one of those 'never built' grand plans but given who is involved, it's definitely going to have some weight to it for consideration. 

 

Edited August 10, 20231 yr by DTCL11

I don’t see CMH moving. 

38 minutes ago, John7165 said:

I don't know how old you are, but if you can remember back to the 80's when the Fed turned LCK over to the county. LCK became a thriving cargo airport with all of the major carriers. The success was so profound, the county talked about constructing 5 more 11K runways spaced a mile apart to be infilled with warehouses, manufacturing, and factories or every sort. Jumbo's  could fly in from around the world and pull right up to the building they were looking for.

21 minutes ago, Pablo said:

I don’t see CMH moving. 

 

I dont necessarily either but it's out there. Place your bets now, folks. Lol

We've had a lot of big plans for this city that never panned out so I fold.

1 hour ago, DTCL11 said:

 

This seems more of powers that be trying to poach for status and tax dollars more than anything. It, to understanding is less about CMH seeking it, than folks trying to lure CMH away. It does not appear that CMH is seeking these.  It seems very 'Look, Denver did it. So can we'.

 

Now, if the effort was to combine LCK and CMH, I can see a justification for that and that was my first thought and question but it doesn't *seem* to be the case. 

 

As a Passenger airport, CMH doesn't lack for space or have major runway deficiencies. It is capabale of handling way more than it does in terms of runways volume and plane size.  It's shortcomings are the terminal and passenger traffic. And the terminal will address it. And any influence of Intel wanting better international capabilities through gates and customs can also be addressed at the current location. 

 

And I can't imagine the convention center and city being ok with an airport 45 minutes away without guaranteed rail connection. 

 

IF you can sell combining CMH and LCK, with direct rail connection downtown AND Amtrak... maybe. But I also don't know that that's the vision. If it is, GREAT. But with the entities I know to be involved, I'm not confident that such a grand vision is in their cards. 

 

But yes. I agree. Could be one of those 'never built' grand plans but given who is involved, it's definitely going to have some weight to it for consideration. 

 

 

Decommissioning airports is a difficult process, let alone 2 in the same metropolitan area. Runways are still seen as a need for national defense. If it was easy to close airports, the concrete at Rickenbacker would've been ripped out of the ground when the base was realigned in the early 90s. Even if there is a grand plan to construct a new DIA somewhere out in Licking County, I don't see it passing muster on the Federal level. And on a practical level, it doesn't make any sense for the reasons @DTCL11mentioned. Grandiose airport plans seem to be a fun talking point for politicians around the state, but the realities of airport construction, operations, and demand always reign them in.

 

Regardless, it's good to see these initial renderings and what appears to be serious continued work on making a new terminal a reality at CMH. I think the overall plan for the new facility looks nice. I like what appears to be a wall of glass overlooking the apron coming off the central atrium (oculus). The concourse view does look a bit sterile and I agree about the comment about the low ceiling. I would like to see more renderings of the headhouse and terminal frontage, as know whether the terminal will be built with accommodations for rail transit. 

3 hours ago, DTCL11 said:

My biggest interest is in the long term. Show me their intended expansions. Even if they are 20 years down the road or more, I want to know that all they have to do is plug and play when it comes time. 

 

The article does mention the terminal will be built with expansion in mind. The building as proposed would contain 36 gates, 7 more than the current terminal and all would be capable of handling CAT III (737 and A320) sized aircraft - some gates in the current building are regional jet only. In addition, the new terminal would be expandable to 30-40 more gates. My guess would be by extending the concourses to the east and west stradling runway 28L/10R. 

6 hours ago, eyehrtfood said:

It will be interesting the reaction of the public and government officials in Columbus as to "the need" and "the cost" - versus the same in Cleveland when the Cleveland new terminal is officially rolled out to all with plans and cost.

 

Guess: Columbus will say "we need a world class airport at any cost" and Cleveland will say "how much? Flying is for the rich... What a waste...  What about money for our neighborhoods instead...? 

 

(I live in CLE)

 

Not sure how much of a reaction is warranted as the CRAA already has outlined how to pay for the project:

 

$1.52 billion through the sale of bonds

$140 million in federal grants

$240 million in authority funds

$100 million in other funds

 

That is a lot in the sale of bonds. My guess is the reality will be less bonds and more "other" funds, likely from Columbus and Franklin County. 

Edited August 11, 20231 yr by CMHOhio

2 hours ago, Pablo said:

I don’t see CMH moving. 

If it does it'd definitely be out by Johnstown or New Albany

2 minutes ago, columbus17 said:

If it does it'd definitely be out by Johnstown or New Albany

Didn’t Intel need their plant(s) to be away from airports and busy rail lines? I wonder how close an airport could be built to the site. 
 

I do agree with others that the location of CMH is fabulous. Unless we are guaranteed to become a hub (not going to happen) I would prefer to remain in the current location. But if by some miracle the plan is to move somewhere with enough space to grow into a legit hub, it might be worth the trade off of being in a slightly less convenient location.  

2 minutes ago, cbussoccer said:

Didn’t Intel need their plant(s) to be away from airports and busy rail lines? I wonder how close an airport could be built to the site. 
 

I do agree with others that the location of CMH is fabulous. Unless we are guaranteed to become a hub (not going to happen) I would prefer to remain in the current location. But if by some miracle the plan is to move somewhere with enough space to grow into a legit hub, it might be worth the trade off of being in a slightly less convenient location.  

From the article, “John Glenn isn’t a hub and has no plans to become one.”

I’m fine with it never being a hub, as long as some type of international flight will still happen. 

29 minutes ago, VintageLife said:

From the article, “John Glenn isn’t a hub and has no plans to become one.”

I’m fine with it never being a hub, as long as some type of international flight will still happen. 

We've had two chances going the hub route and both failed. But I would like to see a focus city designation from one of our airlines. It's difficult to get enough passengers to warrant international and even some domestic routes relying solely on local traffic.

Edited August 11, 20231 yr by John7165

10 minutes ago, John7165 said:

We've had two chances going the hub route and both failed. But I would like to see a focus city designation from one of our airlines. 

We already kinda have that with Southwest. They designated CMH as one of their "hometown" airports a few years ago and still maintain the most robust flight schedule of any airline at CMH coming out of COVID. Unfortunately doesn't help much when trying to attract an international carrier. 

I’ve been here nearly 20 years and pretty aware of the rumors around town when it comes to this type of stuff. I can firmly say this is the first I’ve ever heard about the airport moving. Perfect example is the second outer belt, that’s been a rumor since at last 2004 if not longer.
 

Now that the cat is officially out of the bag and you know I’m not blowing smoke this terminal is full steam ahead. Public knowledge let’s us know they have 25% of the money already and our property taxes are going up in Franklin County(not by mistake). They don’t just toss out the stuff I’ve personally seen and had my hands on just for fun.

 

Now to entertain the rumors let’s see where it could potentially go. 
 

North - far too costly to build in Delaware County. Morrow doesn’t have the appetite, Knox doesn’t have the terrain, Marion is too far even with a new outer belt.

 

West - The most attractive because you can corner the Miami Valley & Dayton markets. Madison County could make sense. Then you look at infrastructure and what could be taken over, OSU owns/manages a lot of land outside West Jeff on 70.

 

South - logistical nightmare to be blunt. Could it happen? Yes. Will it? Probably not. They would have to build a full blown connector from Dayton even though it’s partially there. You could make it attractive to Cincinnati as well. The biggest contiguous plot of land available in the area(at least to my knowledge) is now Honda’s and that plot had been available for at minimum 10-15 years.

49 minutes ago, VintageLife said:

From the article, “John Glenn isn’t a hub and has no plans to become one.”

I’m fine with it never being a hub, as long as some type of international flight will still happen. 

Yes that quote was specifically about the current publicly released plans. I was talking with respect to the rumors of moving the airport to a completely new location. 

23 minutes ago, John7165 said:

We've had two chances going the hub route and both failed. But I would like to see a focus city designation from one of our airlines. It's difficult to get enough passengers to warrant international and even some domestic routes relying solely on local traffic.

Neither were “legit” big airline hubs. I’m talking Delta, United, AA, or Southwest (even though they don’t technically designate hubs). 

...

Edited August 11, 20231 yr by John7165

I don’t think there is a single drop of truth to the rumors of moving the airport. CMH has fantastic and expensive navigation facilities. Think of the infrastructure they’ve put in.

 

taxi way relocation currently happening for the new terminal, ATC tower, Re-alignment of south runway for parallel operations, new rental car facility.

 

We are never going to be a hub and thats okay. Absolutely no need to move the airport and if they ever tried tax payers should be angry. 
 

in terms of flights to Europe our next best chance is when the A321XLR finishes certification. Right now they are working on a fire suppression system mod. But the range is to be nearly 4,500NM after. Well suited for our market to London. 

 

3 hours ago, Jd1137 said:

I don’t think there is a single drop of truth to the rumors of moving the airport. CMH has fantastic and expensive navigation facilities. Think of the infrastructure they’ve put in.

 

taxi way relocation currently happening for the new terminal, ATC tower, Re-alignment of south runway for parallel operations, new rental car facility.

 

We are never going to be a hub and thats okay. Absolutely no need to move the airport and if they ever tried tax payers should be angry. 
 

in terms of flights to Europe our next best chance is when the A321XLR finishes certification. Right now they are working on a fire suppression system mod. But the range is to be nearly 4,500NM after. Well suited for our market to London. 

 

 

Agreed. The only way a completely new airport could possibly make sense would be to become a hub which isn't going to happen. I'm more than happy to maintain our extremely convenient location, continue to build up SW service and be a key market for them, fill in a couple holes in our route map (routes to SAN, PDX, LAX on something other than NK), and add a couple international routes. 

The rumor isn't necessarily that CMH is moving. It's that there are indeed entities spending time and money to create a comprehensive plan for CMH to move. There is truth to that. Whether or not CMH takes it seriously is the part I am skeptical on. Especially as @wpcc88points out, CMH is outlining all their funding and showing they seem to be full steam ahead. No reason for CMH to do that if they're entertaining other locations. But folks elsewhere are looking to lay the groundwork to make their pitch for a move in what I percieve to be a poaching expedition because they want it and feel they deserve it and can offer something that CMH wants. Just seems to be a bit late for that unless they are talking 30 years from now. 

Edited August 11, 20231 yr by DTCL11

1 hour ago, DTCL11 said:

The rumor isn't necessarily that CMH is moving. It's that there are indeed entities spending time and money to create a comprehensive plan for CMH to move. There is truth to that. Whether or not CMH takes it seriously is the part I am skeptical on. Especially as @wpcc88points out, CMH is outlining all their funding and showing they seem to be full steam ahead. No reason for CMH to do that if they're entertaining other locations. But folks elsewhere are looking to lay the groundwork to make their pitch for a move in what I percieve to be a poaching expedition because they want it and feel they deserve it and can offer something that CMH wants. Just seems to be a bit late for that unless they are talking 30 years from now. 
 

uhhh well somebody should have them stop wasting their time? Cause thats crazy lol. What could they possibly have that CMH wants? Youre either A.) moving the airport to LCK? Meh hasn’t happened and why would you unless demand dictated massive expansion beyond airport limits. B.) youre talking about moving to a further suburban location. Beyond it being financed by some mega company why would this be a thing? To benefit who? 
 

it just makes no sense and its a completely unsubstantiated rumor.

Not trying to be rude, its just unfathomable to me. I fly for an airline and i just can’t envision a scenario in which they would have wasted so much money and time investing in CMH to rip it up. It would make no sense to me.

Here's a rendering from a different angle: 

 

4 hours ago, Jd1137 said:

B.) youre talking about moving to a further suburban location. Beyond it being financed by some mega company why would this be a thing? To benefit who? 
 

it just makes no sense and its a completely unsubstantiated rumor.

 

Suburbs gonna suburb. But I assure you, it's not unsubstantiated. Whether it makes sense or not doesn't mean that people won't try. 

Edited August 11, 20231 yr by DTCL11

2 hours ago, cbussoccer said:

Here's a rendering from a different angle: 

 

 

Wonder if there's long term plans to move Lane? Seems like Lane, as it is now and in this rendering might impede further expansion west. 

0% chance the airport moves

 

Anyway, full-size renderings from this channel 6 article,

 

 

 

 

 

https://abc6onyourside.com/news/local/cmh-leaders-pushing-for-a-2-billion-facility-upgrade-columbus-airport-john-glenn-international-travel-flights

Is that a green roof on the terminal? Pretty cool!

 

Yeah, I don't understand moving the airport. What benefit could there be and who would fund the billions of dollars it would take? If a terminal is $2B, what does an airport cost from scratch? Denver was the last new airport in 1995.  It cost $9.6B in today's money and is like 30 miles from the actual city, it's like moving CMH to Marysville. I don't understand who's spending time or money on this? The lizard people?! 

37 minutes ago, 17thState said:

Yeah, I don't understand moving the airport. What benefit could there be and who would fund the billions of dollars it would take? If a terminal is $2B, what does an airport cost from scratch? Denver was the last new airport in 1995.  It cost $9.6B in today's money and is like 30 miles from the actual city, it's like moving CMH to Marysville. I don't understand who's spending time or money on this? The lizard people?! 

It would be absolutely insane lol. Could you even imagine the red tape? I just flew to San Diego last week and it has a similar sized footprint if not smaller than CMH yet has significantly more flights. Kicker, we actually have two large parallel runways capable of dual operations. San Diego has one. We have a fantastic airport with plenty of infrastructure to handle a dramatic increase in traffic. Were so well positioned.

Literally other than the south and west nobody has anything to offer CMH. The Dayton and Northern Cincinnati markets are the only thing that makes sense. Not saying you’re blowing smoke but again I’ve too been around decision makers and never heard this before you mentioned it earlier this week.

 

Rickenbacker has some room for expansion but it would be at the expense of the logistics industry that brings billions to our region, aka not happening. 

So I found some background information publicly available. Delaware County and City are looking to form a regional airport authority.  And it seems some parties involved have larger (far-fetched) ambitions.

So while the initial plan is to focus on the municipal airport, there are explorations of grander proportion. Again, a poaching exploration more than anything.

 

I think that the reality will be a relocation of DLZ to better serve the business community aka Intel than bringing commercial air service to Delaware county. But some appear to want to at least be more than a general aviation airport. 

 

 

 

Edited August 12, 20231 yr by DTCL11

8 hours ago, DTCL11 said:

So I found some background information publicly available. Delaware County and City are looking to form a regional airport authority.  And it seems some parties involved have larger (far-fetched) ambitions.

So while the initial plan is to focus on the municipal airport, there are explorations of grander proportion. Again, a poaching exploration more than anything.

 

I think that the reality will be a relocation of DLZ to better serve the business community aka Intel than bringing commercial air service to Delaware county. But some appear to want to at least be more than a general aviation airport. 

 

 

 

You should try to build a hangar there. You’ll understand immediately why nothing will get done at DLZ. They have long stood in the way of development at DLZ. For years they have been trying to do the simplest things with headaches. At one point a corporation was trying to build a hangar there and Delaware wanted them to lease the land for 99 years without ownership.  

I would love for DLZ to try to capture a little executive feed for the region. But that airport under its current leadership isn’t going to do much. 
 

it needs among others, a runway extension, ILS capability, taxiway improvements, hangars, FBO facilities. Its a rink a dink place unfortunately. Any sort of agenda to make it more than that is made by people whom I don’t think quite understand the gravity of said proposal.

 

 

On 8/11/2023 at 10:55 AM, cbussoccer said:

Here's a rendering from a different angle: 

 

 Maybe it's an optical illusion, but for future growth, it looks like you could build an exact replica of the proposed terminal further down towards Hamilton to the east. You may have to tear down the Lane hangars, but so what?

Edited August 13, 20231 yr by John7165

1 hour ago, Jd1137 said:

 

it needs among others, a runway extension, ILS capability, taxiway improvements, hangars, FBO facilities. Its a rink a dink place unfortunately. Any sort of agenda to make it more than that is made by people whom I don’t think quite understand the gravity of said proposal.

 

Like I said, suburbs gonna suburb. Doesn't have to make sense or be practical but there's a sense of entitlement that comes with being the fastest growing county with a healthy average household income and attention from some of the largest companies in the country. Doesn't have to make sense for people with sway to make a push. It can be as impractical as can be but doesn't mean there aren't people who aren't going to try. 

 

But now that we have that confirmation, perhaps DLZ/ Regional Airport Authority Proposal can have its own thread. 

Can anyone tell if the plans leave an option for a rail spur and passenger hub from the 3C+D route?

Front page of the Dispatch today. Renderings for the latest update on John Glenn International.

 

https://www.dispatch.com/story/business/transportation/2023/08/21/what-does-new-columbus-airport-terminal-mean-for-travelers-and-planes/70593928007/

 

 

 

 

 

The design seems somewhat more inspired than the new airports in SLC and KCMO.

 

Airports are usually lost in a sea of parking garages and concrete ramp systems, so I don't worry too much about what they look like. The key to me is how easily and quickly I can transfer to my next mode of transportation, generally transit to downtown, an uber, or the rental car center.

Digging the foliage. Small detail in the scheme of things but on a grey winter day that'll be nice (if it stays in the plans)!

Wondering what would stop the airport from buying the golf course on the east side of Hamilton rd so they could extend the runway, if they ever need to? Is that something that is even possible?

What John Glenn Columbus International Airport's $2B terminal plan means for the region

 

The $2 billion terminal in design for Columbus' airport is just one piece of an overall economic development strategy that can build Ohio's reach and benefit its big and small businesses alike.

 

John Glenn Columbus International Airport's plan for a new terminal joins a recently announced transportation transformation plan for the region, the expansion of what is now largest Ohio's largest hotel in downtown Columbus, and an overall fast-growing economy as key factors in the region's future growth, leaders say.

 

The seven additional gates, bringing the airport's total to 36, will be able to handle more flights, more travelers and different types and sizes of aircraft, as well as have room for future expansion. That could mean more flights.

 

"With increased capacity, there would be the hope that we would have more direct flights to desired destinations, so we wouldn't have to connect through so many airports ... within the U.S.," Experience Columbus CEO Brian Ross said. "Hopefully that would allow us to grow our international capabilities, (to) get a couple of direct international flights."

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2023/08/21/john-glenn-columbus-airport-economic-impact.html

 

New Airport Terminal Would Modernize Columbus Air Travel

 

Talk of an airport upgrade is not exactly new, but a major announcement was made last week on the project, renewing the conversation on what the future holds for air travel in Columbus.

 

The current terminal, which opened in 1958, could be replaced by a brand new terminal to the southwest of the current facility.

 

According to the fact sheet provided by representatives with the Columbus Regional Airport Authority, the plans for a new terminal would accomodate the projected population growth of Central Ohio over the next 25 years.

 

The new design renderings that were unveiled last week are done through an architectural partnership between San Francisco-based Gensler, and Columbus-based Moody Nolan.

 

More below:

https://columbusunderground.com/new-airport-terminal-would-modernize-columbus-air-travel-we1/

 

15 hours ago, VintageLife said:

Wondering what would stop the airport from buying the golf course on the east side of Hamilton rd so they could extend the runway, if they ever need to? Is that something that is even possible?

LAX had to do that very thing when they didn't have enough room for the south runway so they tunneled  Sepulveda Blvd and put one of the runways over it.

I uploaded higher resolution images plus one not yet posted. It says on the renderings that they "Reflect 30% design."

 

 

https://images4.imagebam.com/3c/5f/86/MENVUIL_o.png

 

https://images4.imagebam.com/a1/b5/1c/MENVSEH_o.png

 

 

https://images4.imagebam.com/04/c6/9b/MENVV0S_o.png

 

Anybody else a little puzzled by the 30% designed number? What exactly does that mean? They still have 70% to design? Genzler has had almost a year and three quarters and they're only 30% done? Doesn't seem to be much urgency to get this done.

3 hours ago, John7165 said:

Anybody else a little puzzled by the 30% designed number? What exactly does that mean? They still have 70% to design? Genzler has had almost a year and three quarters and they're only 30% done? Doesn't seem to be much urgency to get this done.

 

It's a huge project. Projects are usually designed and documented in phases: 30%, 60%, 90% and then the bid set. Sometimes these phases are called SD/DD/CD (Schematic Design, Design Development, and Construction Documents). There are probably a ton of engineers involved too - civil, structural, electrical and so forth. Specialty designers for baggage handling and jetways. There's just a ton of stuff to design. This isn't a Sheetz.....