You read about bringing educated people and young professionals into town, and that's great, but not everybody wears a suit to work. I'm not an economics expert, so I thought I'd throw this out to you all for some feedback. Do you think the downtown construction projects current and upcoming will have long-term positive effects on the Cleveland-area economy or will they be temporary blips?

 

The Euclid Corridor Project is pretty massive, and there are quite a few condos currently being fixed up downtown with hopefully more to come when the Flats, Avenue District and Pesht get rolling. Hopefully the county building will start before 2010, so that's a sizable building. Is this enough to make a dent?

 

If not, is there anything the average person can do to help increase jobs locally? I wish I could create a software company or something, but that's not what I do. Cleveland's biggest problem is lack of jobs, and it frustrates me that I can't do much about it.

 

 

You are right about the lack of jobs, but I look to the future with some optimism as The fine Hospitals here are looking to create thousands of jobs. Also all thes construction projects posted on this site will need workers to build them. In addition all the new Bio-tech companies starting up here will bring even more well paying jobs. Its just a waiting game. We do have some companies here expanding  and of course The Greater Cleveland Growth Association tries to lure companies here it just takes a while.

I've been wondering the same thing.  There are so many projects, large and small, currently underway and even more on the horizon.  What is the impact on the local employment market?  I know there are often requirements attached to public dollars in regard to a % of local workers and minority owned contractors and things like that, but how many of the workers are actually from here and how many are brought in?  Things like that.

 

Good question, Jamie!

If not, is there anything the average person can do to help increase jobs locally? I wish I could create a software company or something, but that's not what I do.

 

I think about that all the time. Starting a (successful) business in the city would be the most helpful thing a person could do.

 

Downtown construction isn't really about creating jobs so much as tapping a market for downtown housing that already exists. There are still a lot of jobs in Cleveland (what, 100,000 downtown alone?), and these construction projects are about improving downtown living options for the people who fill them.

I don't agree that we're lacking in jobs. A quick search of some employment web sites reveals there's an impressive (at least to me) chunk of openings -- notably in the health care and computer programming/tech fields. But, it was also pretty depressing to me since I'm not trained for either field! There are jobs out there, but not for the kind of laboring that this town is used to. It will take a while for labor force to become retrained for these fields. But given the aging of baby boomers and always continuing advancements in computer technology, those seem safe to keep growing for years to come.

 

And, by the way, no matter where you live, as long as you have a computer in your home, a communication line hooked up to it, are computer literate, and have an ability to market their skills, there's no reason why any motivated person should be without a job.

^^

 

That is an interesting point of view, and honestly, especially in the colleges, it's way against the norm. My profs were always talking about how bad the job market in Cleveland is. You also hear it from people of all ages looking for jobs. It's definitely not easy to get a job -- in ANY city. At the same time, the methods for finding jobs have changed, too, so if you are just out of college or recently laid off and you're not networking, it's going to be much, much harder (this is something I learned first-hand).

 

What I wonder is, compared to other similarly sized cities, does Cleveland really have far less available jobs? I don't have any idea. I can only guess we do because people always complain about it. This would be an interesting thing to study, especially if you broke it down by type of job, level of job, entry-level, mid-level, senior, etc. This would help figure out who exactly has to leave to get a job, and maybe there would be some surprising results. Sure, we have lost a whole lot of manufacturing jobs, but have we gained other types of job?

 

There are 2 million people in this region and we have a unemployment rate of 5-6% right? That's above average unemployment, but it also means that 94-95% have jobs, and a lot of them are high-paying.

 

The one thing I don't understand about "brain drain" and "brain gain," is after you attract a bunch of young, smart, beautiful people to our area, what do you do with them? It seems like you need to create a reputation with real results for having good jobs, then they'll come on their own. Until then, what are you attracting them here for? If dinner isn't ready at 1 p.m., you don't sit down at the table and wait the rest of the afternoon.

 

 

The RTA ECP project is using "92% local companies."  So, if the total project is around 200 million, there is 180 million of mostly federal dollars being put directly into cleveland companies and employees pockets.  I don't know how "local" is defined, but I know that they wanted to infuse the local economy, but couldn't explicitly require the companies to be local, unlike some of the DBE requirements.  This is obviously good for future development and attraction of new residents and jobs, but it also has a direct and immediate trickle down effect as they workers buy goods and services near the job site as well as consume in other ways do to their employment. 

 

as a person who grew up here, and lived outside the area for many years, i think one of the biggest problems in the entrenched leadership in the city.  In many ways it still feels like an old boys network and is more about who you know or how long you have been in your position rather than a meritocracy where govt/business/non profits are looking for "the best" person for the job. 

 

Other successful regions have either moved past this stage or never had the level of cronyism that cuyahoga county seems to have.  When you get a bunch of people together that have ideas and dreams and want to invest in the region (whatever that may be), you want leaders and businesses to say "we'll figure out" whatever the challenges you have, rather than saying "we've never done it that way."

 

The one thing I don't understand about "brain drain" and "brain gain," is after you attract a bunch of young, smart, beautiful people to our area, what do you do with them? It seems like you need to create a reputation with real results for having good jobs, then they'll come on their own.

 

I'd argue the brain drain isn't primarily about lack of jobs -- it's about our city's lack of neighborhoods that appeal to the young and hip. Young people now choose where to live based on how interesting and vibrant a place is -- not on how many jobs are available there. Nice suburbs just don't cut it. These kids want walkable, fun, dense (gasp!) inner-city neighborhoods. We're getting there with places like Tremont, Ohio City etc. etc. but much more needs to be done. Actually, I think once we get downtown humming again everything else will fall into place. Downtown conveys the take-home image for the entire metro area.

I think the construction projects - cumulatively speaking - will have a lasting effect. But sometimes I think it's hard to measure the success or impact of a big project after it is built. Consider that in a relatively short period of time we had the BP Building, Key Tower, Tower City Center, Rock Hall, Jacobs Field, Gund Arena, Science Center, and Browns Stadium built. Has the region made a booming economic comeback since then? Well no, but can any of us imagine the city now without them? Something tells me that these big projects do gain a little and are helping to offset other types of losses that happening.

 

I'm very excited about the years 2009-2011. A lot of really exciting things will be open/completed by then, and I think we will really start to see or feel the impact. Maybe I'm just dreaming, but everything seems like it will come to full circle then. If Cleveland becomes a good and exciting place to live, visit and do business, why wouldn't jobs and people follow?

 

You know in Cleveland, you hear from people that there are no jobs. You hear from employers that there are no people. I just don't buy the fact that "jobs" is the real problem, and I get sick of hearing it. 

You can hear about how young people choose cities before jobs here:

 

http://www.smartcityradio.com/smartcityradio/past_shows.cfm?showsmartcityID=291&PageNum_getsmartshows=1

The one thing I don't understand about "brain drain" and "brain gain," is after you attract a bunch of young, smart, beautiful people to our area, what do you do with them? It seems like you need to create a reputation with real results for having good jobs, then they'll come on their own.

 

I'd argue the brain drain isn't primarily about lack of jobs -- it's about our city's lack of neighborhoods that appeal to the young and hip. Young people now choose where to live based on how interesting and vibrant a place is -- not on how many jobs are available there. Nice suburbs just don't cut it. These kids want walkable, fun, dense (gasp!) inner-city neighborhoods. We're getting there with places like Tremont, Ohio City etc. etc. but much more needs to be done. Actually, I think once we get downtown humming again everything else will fall into place. Downtown conveys the take-home image for the entire metro area.

 

i totally agree with this, many young wage earners want to live in a vibrant 'downtown' urban setting. so the dead zones downtown need to go away first and foremost.

 

re getting downtown humming again: today right downtown the avenue, the flats projects, the dozens of smaller scale conversions and stark's eventual pesht vision are all exciting plans that will push this forward. if done with appropriate care of their urban setting, these are all no brainers in my mind.

 

besides downtown, tremont and the oc, midtown is in a very interesting situation with potential to be met from both ends, from downtown and from uc, with both new construction and re-development....and revved along by the rta euc corridor project. slavic village is other area rife for some more revitalization fun. heck, cleveland is even lucky in a sense to have a wild west frontier of vast potential future development that most cities would envy....the lakefront. these are some other interesting areas right next to downtown that will turn new business and new urban homesteaders on once cleveland's front porch is repainted so to speak.

 

i'd say there are plenty of interesting nabes around the city, but few outsiders are going to know about them right away. making the direct downtown areas most suburbanites and visitors see first into an interesting 24/7 living environment and inviting to all is a priority. sure new apts downtown won't make new jobs, but in sum it will definately set a more inviting table for that to happen by helping to keep more of the region's best and brightest and by helping to attract newcomers.

 

 

 

Good comments!

 

Does anyone know how the Waterfront Line is being included in our future? I took it for the first time, and I couldn't believe it. It could be the link for our city's most vibrant areas for young people -- it goes through residential in the WHD, then goes into an entertainment district in the Flats and then goes to two museums and a stadium. I was astounded! It was so much fun!

Good comments!

 

Does anyone know how the Waterfront Line is being included in our future? I took it for the first time, and I couldn't believe it. It could be the link for our city's most vibrant areas for young people -- it goes through residential in the WHD, then goes into an entertainment district in the Flats and then goes to two museums and a stadium. I was astounded! It was so much fun!

 

Don't forget the often-overlooked Settlers Landing. So pretty!

Does anyone know how the Waterfront Line is being included in our future?

 

My first reaction was to say it's not, but after thinking about it, that's not quite true. What is true is that there's no consensus from the principal players (RTA, city, business community, etc.) on what it's role should be.

 

The city wants to see the Waterfront Line extended eastward along the lakefront toward Collinwood and promote development at its stations especially downtown, per the lakefront plan.

 

An increasing number of developers (among them Bob Stark, Doug Price, Chip Marous, Bob Corna) want to see some sort of improved downtown rail transit circulation such as a streetcar and involve the Waterfront Line in some way.

 

And, as recently as the late 1990s, RTA studied having the Waterfront Line turn southward down East 17th or 18th streets, run between Playhouse Square and CSU, pass through the St. Vincent Charity Hospital/Tri-C area and rejoin the Rapid lines somewhere between the Campus station and the Inner Belt. The routing would have created a loop of downtown, help stimulate development on the eastern side of downtown and improve downtown circulation.

 

Since then, I can't recall RTA issuing any official goals or plans for the Waterfront Line, not even a statement about how it could help promote development along it to boost ridership. That's bothersome, particularly when RTA can get a better rate on bond-financed development than the port authority can, yet the port authority has financed more than $1 billion worth of new development.

 

The Waterfront Line in its current form would likely see new ridership from Flats East Bank, Lighthouse Landing and certainly Pesht. But the parts of Pesht that would impact the Waterfront Line the most would be the later phases, built on port authority along the lakefront. Stark & Friends want to start in the Warehouse District, which isn't going to affect the Waterfront Line right away (except for maybe the northern parts of it, but where are those residents going to ride to that they can't walk to just as quickly?).

 

There is a a new nonprofit group which recently netted Chip Marous to serve on its board called Lake Shore Electric Railway (formerly Trolleyville USA). Their plan is to build an historic streetcar in the downtown area. But first, they want to have a permanent place to store its transit cars (they are being stored temporarily under Tower City Center, in the pre-1990 Shaker Rapid station). Next, they want to use the Waterfront Line to run their historic transit cars on weekends and for special events. When the cross-lake ferry starts, Lake Shore would like to build a spur off the Waterfront Line to the pier at the end of West 3rd Street. And, long-term, their goal is to have a downtown streetcar system, possibly including one or both of the cross-river bridges' subway decks (Detroit-Superior and/or Lorain-Carnegie) to serve Ohio City.

 

RTA has done a very nice thing in agreeing to store the historic transit cars for them. But the future of downtown rail transit is also in storage, with various factions not yet in agreement over what that future should be. I'd love to see all parties come together with a policy statement, shared goal and action plan for creating a true downtown rail circulation system and how it should mesh with emerging and as-yet unknown real estate development plans.

 

When that happens, downtown will become a much more cohesive, interconnected place and, dare I say it, a truly dynamic neighborhood.

great comment kjp. i'd really like to see the rta get active again about closing the wfl rail loop thru downtown, esp with the avenue and csu projects going on. it would go a long way toward promoting new business and more residential and would certainly tie in nicely with the new euc corridor bus too.

 

of course i'd wish for this important 'crosstown' wfl rapid loop segment to be at least partly buried as a cut and cover subway, but even if it's ever built that part is prob a pipe dream. what can i say? i always thought the wfl segment in the flats was dangerous in the flats heyday and some of it should have been buried too --- and maybe still should be. i'm just not a big fan of open grade level light rail in the cbd, esp with clevo winter weather.

 

^^Dangerous when it crosses traffic, do you mean, or do you mean dangerous as in drunk people walking in front of trains?

 

The T rolls down Commonwealth Avenue in Boston in a similar fashion. It freaks me out a little, but I don't know about how many dangerous it is.  I  personally like being out of the tunnels just because I like to look out the windows. Of course, I think it'd be cool to have a real subway in Cleveland....

 

Those plans you mention KJP are awesome. As usual, you seem to be the keeper of Cleveland's transformative transportation ideas. Maybe if we can get Cleveland pumping with new businesses and residents, these ideas will come back on the table. It'd just be amazing.