You can sort-of see the plan in this photo of the presentation given last night. Photo is courtesy of TPH2[/member]

 

That's my hat.

 

if you look along the bottom of the plan.  Between the blue (5 stories) and yellow (3 stories)  boxes denoting 2 new buildings.  The yellow building would have 12,000 sq ft of retail.

 

you will see a road that bends to the north (left is where the lake is)

 

The 20 story building would be just to the right of where the road meets 70th ( 73rd along the bottom, 70th across the top)  to the left of the road is the property that is not under the developers control.

 

The red boxes at the northern edge by the RR tracks are 3 stories.  The Green box is 3 stories along 70th and 5 stories for the portion running perpendicular to 70th and 73rd.

 

 

 

20 stories?  Wow.  I still just know about the demand.  Espcially with NRP doing 250 units+.  Ohio City, Flats, Downtown.  20 stories has to have, what, at minimum 200 units?  Is this bubble going to burst? OR will all of these market rate units throughout the city be filled

20 stories?  Wow.  I still just know about the demand.  Espcially with NRP doing 250 units+.  Ohio City, Flats, Downtown.  20 stories has to have, what, at minimum 200 units?  Is this bubble going to burst? OR will all of these market rate units throughout the city be filled

 

Small footprint....i think it was +/- 140 units.

 

Based on the reception, 20 stories isn't going to happen.  If people wanted to live on the gold coast they would have moved to the gold coast....pretty much sums up the mood.

 

The only other push back was on parking.  1.3 parking spaces per unit.  Nothing extra for the retail.

 

It was pretty refreshing.  Nobody was all that unhappy with the density.  The Battery Park people were against anything taller than what they had.  Except there was always a plan for a 6 story building in the original BP planning.

 

and that one is selling now and has nothing to do with this new plan.  That is Park Place for those unfamiliar.  http://batteryparkcleveland.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/PARK-PLACE-common.pdf

 

^What's the reason for the concern about the parking ratio. Is it mostly residents of the old housing who rely on on-street parking worrying about additional competition for spaces?

^What's the reason for the concern about the parking ratio. Is it mostly residents of the old housing who rely on on-street parking worrying about additional competition for spaces?

 

Yes...and the battery park people.    Parking issues around the battery park wine bar and Grafitti as well as residents and guests of the shoreway.  They were concerned about what type of retail and if that would add to the evening/weekend parking load.

 

 

 

Based on the reception, 20 stories isn't going to happen.  If people wanted to live on the gold coast they would have moved to the gold coast....pretty much sums up the mood.

 

 

That's too bad. BTW, try to get a condo on the Gold Coast. Not easy. Gold Coast developed at a time when no one wanted to build market-rate housing in Cleveland.

Wasn't all this targeted investment in Gordon Square supposed to encourage new development?  And now it comes, and it faces a battle because it's not suburban enough. 

 

Retail?  Now wait just a minute buddy, how's the parking?  Oh, there's a tower on top?  With people in it?  Well you can take your retail and scram.  Try Shelbyville.

This is why not converting the shore way to at-grade and thus freeing up direct access to the land around it (land,for all intensive purposes, no neighborhood could lay claim to) was a huge state/local blunder in my mind. Do that and lay transit down the middle and developers would be eating it up for high-rises. Mind you I'm not sure of the legality and ownership of the bluff land just north of the tracks. It might be state park land. Regardless,east of 54th would have been good to go. Oh well. I hope when the time comes the city seriously considers converting the shore way to at-grade from North Coast transportation Center to the 90 merge.

Wasn't all this targeted investment in Gordon Square supposed to encourage new development?  And now it comes, and it faces a battle because it's not suburban enough. 

 

Retail?  Now wait just a minute buddy, how's the parking?  Oh, there's a tower on top?  With people in it?  Well you can take your retail and scram.  Try Shelbyville.

 

The area around Edgewater is taking the cut-de-sac approach to coastal development. It's the provencial way, and it's not at all unusual.

It's at least unusual.  People are saying "If we wanted city living, we wouldn't be on the waterfront near downtown. Ban all towers!"  Cleveland needs to capitalize on everything it has, everything it invests in.  We didn't fix up an entire theater district for a handful of homeowners who don't want others around.  This is why Cleveland needs to ban cul-de-sacs.  They attack development and demand parking.  It's antithetical to the rest of the city's needs and goals.

I'm pretty skeptical they'll ever be able to build a 20 story building anyway, to be honest, at least anytime in the near/mid-term. If no one has made the numbers and financing work for high rise construction downtown or at University Circle yet, seems like a stretch to see it here.

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/local-news/oh-cuyahoga/battery-park-condo-owners-claim-they-were-duped-by-developer

Vintage is a group of snakes.  No doubt.  I saw the writing on the wall and sold back in January before they went to market with these

Haven't the plans been out on this since the beginning? I thought they've altered slightly but the basic idea was always that there would be a taller building.

Haven't the plans been out on this since the beginning? I thought they've altered slightly but the basic idea was always that there would be a taller building.

 

Yes, and larger buildings were included in the original conceptual plans approved by the city a dozen years ago. Note the structures along West 73rd and the one south of the powerhouse...

 

I lost my awesome downtown view when they built stage four of Casa Belvedere.

 

It was a bummer. But I survived.

Yeah pretty sure this is a typical case of NIMBYism. It's an urban neighborhood. more residents=more amenities.

 

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/local-news/oh-cuyahoga/battery-park-condo-owners-claim-they-were-duped-by-developer

 

Matt Zone.  No comment.  Must be a first.

Vintage is a group of snakes.  No doubt.  I saw the writing on the wall and sold back in January before they went to market with these

 

bunch of snakes because....  trying to develop property with highest & best use?  Nobody has guaranteed lake views.  The residents can be upset but they can't stop this.  They really only have themselves to be pissed at.  As previously stated, the only people with guaranteed lake views are the last ones in.

I'd have sympathy if residents has a reasonable zoning-backed expectation that future development would be limited a certain way, but doesn't sound like that was the case here. Caveat emptor is still rule #1 for real estate.

Vintage is a group of snakes.  No doubt.  I saw the writing on the wall and sold back in January before they went to market with these

 

bunch of snakes because....  trying to develop property with highest & best use?  Nobody has guaranteed lake views.  The residents can be upset but they can't stop this.  They really only have themselves to be pissed at.  As previously stated, the only people with guaranteed lake views are the last ones in.

 

You know very well they advertised something different than what was planned. That's snakes, regardless of best use

When your condo was built, you were told lake and city views. You have lake and city views. It didn't say those were guaranteed for life. Now new development is going up on the vacant land near your property that will obstruct your view. Did you think that land would just sit there vacant forever? First world problems.

Vintage is a group of snakes.  No doubt.  I saw the writing on the wall and sold back in January before they went to market with these

 

bunch of snakes because....  trying to develop property with highest & best use?  Nobody has guaranteed lake views.  The residents can be upset but they can't stop this.  They really only have themselves to be pissed at.  As previously stated, the only people with guaranteed lake views are the last ones in.

 

You know very well they advertised something different than what was planned. That's snakes, regardless of best use

 

I don't know what you're referring to.  The plan for BP has changed so many times since the initial plan 10 yrs ago.  Consider this - even if you had a 3 story unit and they built more 3 story units in between you & the lake, your views of the lake would be blocked.  So what the hell is everyone upset about again? 

No one has any right to demand that a major city avoid building around them, certainly not on a waterfront near downtown.  You've got to be kidding me.  This idea of having a suburban cul-de-sac off 65th and Detroit, with tower-like views, is absolutely insane.  Now we have people shouting down developers who want to build actual towers nearby.  It's elitist, it's destructive, and once again for emphasis-- it's insane.  Time for some serious pushback.

I am perhaps more sympathetic with the current owners than many of you. Buying a house is a difficult process and it isn't easy to know every question to ask. And developers won't disclose more than necessary to make the sale.

 

With that said, the current owners don't have a leg to stand on unless Vintage was telling buyers there would be no development in those parcels. The owners bought the current view, and that is subject to change over time. Again, unless Vintage was lying to buyers.

Again, I don't have a dog in the hunt. I sold our unit and I didn't lose any money on my sale based on anything Vintage did.  Im just calling it as I see it.  They were selling a lot of expensive units to people without fully disclosing future plans.  Sure its not lying, but its a snaky sales tactic.  Also, Gotta Plan.  With a 5 story building, you cant even see the sky!!!  sure most of the views would be blocked of the lake and downtown, but that's a monstrosity of a builing.  And based off of the marketing of these units, Vintage hasn't really sold many of them.  They are making their own bed at this point

They cleared the grass on the lot in front of cha and terrestrial recently. looks like construction will be beginning on the 80 or so unit apartment building that is slated to go there. a building permit was pulled not too long ago

^ That's awesome, and it's about time! Is there even a rendering of the proposed building there? Will there be any retail?

^ That's awesome, and it's about time! Is there even a rendering of the proposed building there? Will there be any retail?

 

I can't find a rendering.

 

But the image in this little .pdf shows an l-shaped building with the units East-facing onto 75th.

 

http://batteryparkcleveland.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Lakeview-common.pdf

 

 

construction has started.  The took the old fences down, started clearing the site.  I expect survey crews & foundations starting soon  First floor parking, probably no retail

construction has started.  The took the old fences down, started clearing the site.  I expect survey crews & foundations starting soon  First floor parking, probably no retail

 

 

on my walk yesterday :)

I'm glad to hear there is another apartment building going in at Battery Park. It's a little sad to lose the pretty green space that was there but I think the gains in residents and neighborhood vibrancy will be worth it. I was in the neighborhood on memorial day and I was really happy to see how lively and active it was. Terrestrial was quite busy, lots of young couples walking around with dogs, people coming and going from the beach, etc. It also looks like a lot of the run-down homes on 76th leading to Battery Park are being bought and renovated which is really great to see. I think in a few years there is potential for a total revival of the Gordon Square area with a reduction in crime and general ugliness that is currently seen in pockets. Edgewater Park and the beach should continue to draw interest in the area.

Welcome, westlake10!

Westlake10 - welcome and good first post.

 

I do think that overall Ohio City and D-S will benefit from more density. I know that is controversial especially to the "BUT WHERE WILL WE PARK" crowd; nonetheless, I think walkability of neighborhood centers promotes density and Ohio City has that and D-S is getting there.

I'm glad to hear there is another apartment building going in at Battery Park. It's a little sad to lose the pretty green space that was there but I think the gains in residents and neighborhood vibrancy will be worth it. I was in the neighborhood on memorial day and I was really happy to see how lively and active it was. Terrestrial was quite busy, lots of young couples walking around with dogs, people coming and going from the beach, etc. It also looks like a lot of the run-down homes on 76th leading to Battery Park are being bought and renovated which is really great to see. I think in a few years there is potential for a total revival of the Gordon Square area with a reduction in crime and general ugliness that is currently seen in pockets. Edgewater Park and the beach should continue to draw interest in the area.

 

This makes me happy to hear.  Back in the old days gottaplan[/member] and I put alot of unpaid resident sweat equity into this neighborhood with the hopes it would someday look like that.  Still alot of work to do, but there was a time when i lived there we really werent sure which way the cookie would crumble.  we tried to breed a culture of resident ownership in this area to go along with the private/public development.  I think there are some great people over there, not just BP but Detroit Shoreway as a whole.  Future should remain very bright

Now how about an extension of Healthline down Detroit to 117th?! 

Now how about an extension of Healthline down Detroit to 117th?! 

 

Why? Just jump on the 26.

Now how about an extension of Healthline down Detroit to 117th?! 

 

Why? Just jump on the 26.

 

Development of a faster Bus Rapid Transit line on Euclid Avenue caused ridership to substantially increase compared to the old #6 bus. So I suppose that's what Mack34 expected would be the benefit from upgrading the #26 bus to a BRT. I prefer streetcar and so did Ohio City Inc, but RTA did not. We could discuss this further in the RTA thread.

I would love to see a rapid line diverted from 65th to D-S and then Edgewater. This, however, is probably far too substantial an undertaking to ever expect to be accomplished.

 

I still believe that a Public Square, D-S, Ohio City light rail is very feasible.

I think the CSU line could make a stop near W 73rd (?) or the 26 should be upgraded to BRT.  I have more ideas too but I think we should move this to the RTA thread.

I think the CSU line could make a stop near W 73rd (?) or the 26 should be upgraded to BRT.  I have more ideas too but I think we should move this to the RTA thread.

 

Or even better, the "Cleveland transit- ideas for the future" thread: https://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,2768.1155.html

I would love to see a rapid line diverted from 65th to D-S and then Edgewater. This, however, is probably far too substantial an undertaking to ever expect to be accomplished.

 

I still believe that a Public Square, D-S, Ohio City light rail is very feasible.

 

Agreed, if Cleveland wasn't in Ohio...

Graphics! Renderings! Eye candy!

 

Cleveland City Planning Commission Design Review

Agenda for June 23, 2017

PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT AMENDMENT

Ordinance No. xxx-17(Ward 15/Councilmember Zone): To amend the Battery Park Planned Unit Development (PUD) for lands designated as a PUD District in Ordinance No. 1964-04.

 

 

 

 

 

What's with that fortress type wall?

^Exterior of the parking structure?

^ Makes sense. Though I'm surprised you can still build a blank wall right up to the sidewalk. Seriously. Shouldn't that be against zoning?

It's on a dead end road.  There really isn't going to be any pedestrian through traffic.

Finally some retail. They have touted battery park as an urban neighborhood since day one, it's about time it stared acting as one.