August 25, 200816 yr I don't think you can say Cincinnati's malls are declining because of the neighborhood business districts. Other cities have those too and Columbus' High Street corridor including sporadic shops throughout German Village probably equal the quality of places you find in Cincinnati business districts. The real difference is that Cincinnati has more big box malls throughout the region than Columbus that are still in business but struggling more. There are also more shopping centers in Cincinnati that are marketed as mall destinations. In Columbus, if you want to do some shopping, you immediately either thing "Polaris, Easton, Tuttle". Stores are more centralized in only three major destinations. That's not to say Columbus doesn't have it's own problems. There are many dead malls in Columbus that are MUCH more dead than Tri-county, etc. Those malls don't even come to mind, to Columbusites. Tri-County on my first visit was okay -- there is a healthy mix and vibrancy, although it has plenty of empty storefronts. Save this mall out of the other two... I haven't been to Tri-county in a while but last time I went the interior looked like sh!t and the stores were mostly independently owned with mediocre products. It's unfortunate that independent stores are a sign of decline. I think they're better off in NBDs Bingo. New Market Mall is one of those "dead malls" along with Westgate, which is now...Mexican! The Short North and German Village alone offset the chains and "big boxes" of the EasTuttlAris Tri-Fecta of Terror. I don't think you can say Cincinnati's malls are declining because of the neighborhood business districts. Other cities have those too and Columbus' High Street corridor including sporadic shops throughout German Village probably equal the quality of places you find in Cincinnati business districts. The real difference is that Cincinnati has more big box malls throughout the region than Columbus that are still in business but struggling more. There are also more shopping centers in Cincinnati that are marketed as mall destinations. In Columbus, if you want to do some shopping, you immediately either thing "Polaris, Easton, Tuttle". Stores are more centralized in only three major destinations. That's not to say Columbus doesn't have it's own problems. There are many dead malls in Columbus that are MUCH more dead than Tri-county, etc. Those malls don't even come to mind, to Columbusites. Tri-County on my first visit was okay -- there is a healthy mix and vibrancy, although it has plenty of empty storefronts. Save this mall out of the other two... I haven't been to Tri-county in a while but last time I went the interior looked like sh!t and the stores were mostly independently owned with mediocre products. It's unfortunate that independent stores are a sign of decline. I think they're better off in NBDs Eh, while I confess to not being overly familiar with Columbus, I have been to German Village a few times, and there was basically no shopping. There was a book store and a few restaurants but thats about it. High Street seemed like a lot of art galleries and then, closer to campus, you had the typical college town stuff (Urban Outfitters, American Apparel, etc.). Cincinnati is unique in the amount of boutiques it has around the city. Hyde Park and Obrionville alone probably has close to 40 boutique stores. If you add in Maderia which has about 5, Wyoming, Glendale, Pleasant Ridge, Clifton, Montgomery, the area by UC, Oakley, downtown, and the other random districts, all told you have about 75 boutiques plus a Saks and a Macy's for DT, which is fairly substantial. The German Village has tons of botiques throughout the neighborhood (you apparenlty just saw Third Street). And of course I can also add up Grandview, (Downtown) Worthington, Clintonville, etc but again, that's pointless. Every city has NBDs (even, sadly, Phoenix). "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
August 25, 200816 yr Eastgate is hanging on due to its location. The mall is the hub of retail for Clermont County and the eastern I-275 residents but a walk through the mall will make you think you are no longer in Cincinnati. You know how you always wonder where those odd characters come from that you see at Riverfest since you don't tend to see them throughout the year in Cincinnati? Well that is because they all hang out at Eastgate during the rest of the year. I don't think you can enter this mall without having some part of your clothing attire in camo. Clermont County is like the distant cousin you tend to hide when guests are in town. I know that Eastgate is also a destination for people from places far east, like Hillsboro. I don't think there are any major malls out in that region of Ohio.
August 25, 200816 yr "You know how you always wonder where those odd characters come from that you see at Riverfest since you don't tend to see them throughout the year in Cincinnati? Well that is because they all hang out at Eastgate during the rest of the year. I don't think you can enter this mall without having some part of your clothing attire in camo. Clermont County is like the distant cousin you tend to hide when guests are in town." LOL! I always am wondering where all the nasty people that are found at Riverfest, Bengals games, and Kings Island come from! Haha, wow. I would like to thank you guys for the kind words. At least your not generalizing. I know that Eastgate is also a destination for people from places far east, like Hillsboro. I don't think there are any major malls out in that region of Ohio. Your right. The closest thing to a mall in Hillsboro is the Wal-Mart. I don't go to Portsmouth very often but I don't believe there is anything special there either. As for Brown and Adams counties, if your looking for a place to hunt then your good to go but you might as well skip them if your looking for something else to do.
August 26, 200816 yr I went a Hank Williams Jr. concert at Riverbend - WoW - free tickets. Anyway, Eastgate and Florence serve a similar purpose of being the primary mall for a sector of the region. Some of this age-related, twenty years ago sprawl induced new malls (or even ten years in Cbus) today it is the 'power centers' or 'lifestyle centers' instead. There simply isn't the demand for the traditional mall and after this recession they will be harder to keep going when a bunch of mall-oriented stores go under. Rookwood is decently positioned to grow after the recession - there is that gigantic empty block just waiting for development. It is also the easiest to transition to a TBD of any of the retail centers in the region, except dt. Tri-County needs to recover for the sake of Hamilton Cty inner ring 'burbs. The westside will do fine with a series of power centers, like the stuff in Western Hills and out at Harrison Rybolt. I'd rather see some sort of Sears go into the old Kmart - I like having the white goods and hardware nearby.
August 26, 200816 yr I'd rather see some sort of Sears go into the old Kmart - I like having the white goods and hardware nearby. So I had to look up "white goods" to make sure it wasn't some bigoted term (J/K), if you want appliances you have a Home Depot around the corner. I would think something like a Kohl's would serve Pleasant Ridge & Columbia Township better than a Sears but either would be an improvement over an abandoned K-Mart.
October 20, 200816 yr Interesting... http://mall-hall-of-fame.blogspot.com/2008/07/cincinnatis-kenwoods-kenwood-plaza_01.html http://mall-hall-of-fame.blogspot.com/2008/07/cincinnatis-kenwoods-kenwood-plaza.html http://mall-hall-of-fame.blogspot.com/2008/07/prospective-site-plan-of-kenwood-towne.html http://mall-hall-of-fame.blogspot.com/2008/07/original-strip-center-underwent-major.html You can still see the outline of the original McAlpin's in an aerial that STILL exists (the only such component left). This explains the awkard bi-level setup of the Dillard's store (something I actually wondered about last week!). Also, anyone have any pre-power center info at Sycamore Place? http://mall-hall-of-fame.blogspot.com/2008/07/kenwood-mall-cincinnatis-second.html
October 20, 200816 yr Actually the whole corridor between McAlpin's and what will be Nordstrom's is essentially the same as the original Kenwood Plaza - that corridor had a Little Professor that was replaced by a Brentano's (which went out of business soon after Barnes and Noble opened up across the street). The Macy's in KTC was undersized from the day it opened until the most recent additions. The Kenwood Mall Shillitos/Lazarus/Macy's was far larger and essentially replaced the downtown store as the flagship of the system in the 60-80s. There used to be a pedestrian bridge over Montgomery Road between the two Malls. The Movie theater is out by the Macaroni Grille. Staples was one of the last tenants of the old Kenwood Mall and stayed open through the renovation.
October 20, 200816 yr "You know how you always wonder where those odd characters come from that you see at Riverfest since you don't tend to see them throughout the year in Cincinnati? Well that is because they all hang out at Eastgate during the rest of the year. I don't think you can enter this mall without having some part of your clothing attire in camo. Clermont County is like the distant cousin you tend to hide when guests are in town." LOL! I always am wondering where all the nasty people that are found at Riverfest, Bengals games, and Kings Island come from! Let's not forget Hooters!
October 20, 200816 yr Actually the whole corridor between McAlpin's and what will be Nordstrom's is essentially the same as the original Kenwood Plaza - that corridor had a Little Professor that was replaced by a Brentano's (which went out of business soon after Barnes and Noble opened up across the street). The Macy's in KTC was undersized from the day it opened until the most recent additions. The Kenwood Mall Shillitos/Lazarus/Macy's was far larger and essentially replaced the downtown store as the flagship of the system in the 60-80s. There used to be a pedestrian bridge over Montgomery Road between the two Malls. The Movie theater is out by the Macaroni Grille. Staples was one of the last tenants of the old Kenwood Mall and stayed open through the renovation. Interesting. Are there any photos or a layout of the old mall? I'm having trouble picturing this!
October 20, 200816 yr Interesting: http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=39.20160,-84.37865&z=18&t=S I never noticed the differing roof patterns in the main mall concourse (black roof versus white). Could this indicate that part of the original strip mall was incorporated into the post-1980s expansion?
October 20, 200816 yr Yep. The area that was the drug store and Kroger's was torn down and the mall was connected up with McAlpin's. There was actually a covered breezeway between the black area and the JcPenny (what it was in my memory). It looked a bit like Western Hills Plaza as I recall, though I mostly remember going during the renovation. The Kroger's that was just torn down was built during the renovation and replaced the one fronting Montgomery. I don't remember if there was stuff behind the current mall as the blog mentions though that was certainly possible.
October 21, 200816 yr Wha? There was a "old" Kenwood Mall across the street from Kenwood Towne Centre? I never heard of this before.
October 21, 200816 yr I took some photographs of both tonight... the exterior of the Towne Centre that shows the former McAlplin's structure with its two entrances, the former Lazarus' (where was the enlargement at? I can't find it), and the backside of the original strip mall (the only portion not covered by a parking garage wall -- although I can try for an aerial tomorrow).
October 21, 200816 yr CincyImages: Kenwood Mall was what is now the building that is Lazarus Furniture, Barnes & Noble, Dicks, Old Navy, Staples, Toy R Us, etc. If you can believe it it was a traditional, covered mall with a center courtyard and three spokes with Lazarus, if I remember correctly, as the fourth spoke. Then the shopping plaza across the street was developed as "Kenwood Town Center" with Lazarus moving over there, the furniture department staying and the whole thing reconfigured to what you see today.
October 21, 200816 yr Wait so was the old mall demolished and the "Kenwood Galleria" built in its place or was part of it demolished and then updated? Someone please post photos! There must be a couple laying around somewhere
October 21, 200816 yr This is getting confusing. Sycamore Plaza is the old Kenwood Mall - it wasn't completely torn down, esp. the sides that face 71, and it had a movie theater on an outlet where Macaroni Grille is today. Kenwood Towne Centre - used to be Kenwood Plaza - it was a strip shopping centre straight out of the 1960s. I imagine it was built as soon people had a sense of where 71 was going to be routed. Trader Joe's - used to be a car dealership, it was Office Max for about ten minutes. The stuff north of 71 on Montgomery is essentially unchanged, the Galleria is north of 71, right? - the Mexican restaurant was a Ground Round.
October 21, 200816 yr By Galleria, I meant Sycamore Plaza. Many locals call it the Galleria. If you have and old photo, please post it. I knew Kenwood Towne Centre used to be a strip mall. And wow to "Ground Round". That was my favorite place to eat when I was a kid growing up in Long Island. We used to have our birthday parties there and end of the year soccer parties. It was the place to be when you were a kid growing up threw the 80's.
November 13, 200816 yr Kenwood Centre owner issues warning The Associated Press • November 13, 2008 CHICAGO - The owner of Kenwood Towne Centre and Florence Mall warned it faces solvency trouble and may be forced to file for bankruptcy if it can't refinance or extend nearly $1 billion in debt due next month. Read full article here: http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20081113/BIZ01/811130317/1055/NEWS
November 13, 200816 yr Kenwood Centre owner issues warning The Associated Press • November 13, 2008 I would guess Kenwood Towne Center in and of itself is quite profitable - being the premier mall in Cincy. No matter what happens, I don't think it's in for any trouble.
November 13, 200816 yr No way is Kenwood specifically in any financial trouble. Was anyone else there last weekend? No sign of a financial crisis there. It was more slammed than any mall I've ever seen on a non-holiday weekend.
November 5, 200915 yr How Kenwood became megamall By Laura Baverman, Cincinnati Enquirer, November 1, 2009 November 1, 2009 Only at Kenwood Towne Centre can a shopper browse the handbags at kate spade, try on Nordstrom dresses, upgrade her iPhone and enjoy a slice of Cheesecake Factory's finest. In 53 years operating in Sycamore Township, the 1.2-million-square-foot mall is still known as Greater Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky's premiere retail spot. To view the full article, click the hyperlink above or click below: http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20091101/BIZ01/911010350/1055/NEWS/How+Kenwood+became+megamall
July 25, 201311 yr Mall spruces up, lets in the sun A multi-million dollar remodeling project, designed to brighten up one of the Cincinnati region’s largest and most popular malls, is nearing completion. The Kenwood Towne Centre started remolding its commons area in February and is set to finish sometime this fall. The shopping center is replacing old tile, removing ceiling beams that obstruct its skylights and removing brass guard rails and replacing them with stainless steel. The remodeling project is focused on making the mall brighter and a more enjoyable environment for shoppers.
August 1, 20195 yr So what does it take for downtown Cincy to get what the Kenwood Collections all set in one building? At the moment the collections tower has; Crunch Fitness Envision Cinema Whole Foods Old Navy L.L Bean Crate and Barrel Mitchell Day Salon Cycle Bar Olio Italiano Guy Kaku Japanese BBQ Pies and Pints Matt the Miller Tavern Every time I drive by the tower it doesn't seem like it's stores alot of square feet but uses multiple floors and uses the space quite wisely. I just don't get why a developer has pursued an entertainment mixed use tower like this yet downtown? Is there just still a large lack of residents in the urban core for a developer to reasonably pursue something like this?
August 1, 20195 yr 1 minute ago, troeros said: So what does it take for downtown Cincy to get what the Kenwood Collections all set in one building? At the moment the collections tower has; Crunch Fitness Envision Cinema Whole Foods Old Navy L.L Bean Crate and Barrel Mitchell Day Salon Cycle Bar Olio Italiano Guy Kaku Japanese BBQ Pies and Pints Matt the Miller Tavern Every time I drive by the tower it doesn't seem like it's stores alot of square feet but uses multiple floors and uses the space quite wisely. I just don't get why a developer has pursued an entertainment mixed use tower like this yet downtown? Is there just still a large lack of residents in the urban core for a developer to reasonably pursue something like this? I would say yes that the amount of people living downtown is not really large enough to support all of this. The only spot that I could see some of these places (Old Navy, the cinema, and maybe crunch and Mitchell’s) would be around fountain square (old Macy’s site) but these places would mostly be visited by people who are downtown for another reason (football/baseball/soon soccer, work, visitors) due to the fact that most people would rather park for free and go to Kenwood then go downtown.
August 1, 20195 yr Some of those business could do well downtown, but concentrating them in one "entertainment mixed use tower" as you suggest is basically trying to build a downtown mall which isn't a good idea. Outside of a few thriving American cities that are jam packed with people 24/7, downtown malls don't work. We shut down our downtown mall about 6 years ago because it was failing and completely vacant. Columbus, Ohio also shut down their downtown mall and replaced it with a Banks-style development. Why would suburbanites come downtown and pay to park when they can park for free at Rookwood, Kenwood, etc., and shop at all of the stores you have listed, plus many, many, many more? Also, Downtown already has several businesses which are equivalent to the ones you have listed. We already have a Pies & Pints at The Banks, we have several gyms and salons, and we will have a downtown grocery store in a few months. As for why downtown doesn't have clothing stores like Old Navy and a movie theater, all I can say is that all of those businesses exist very close to downtown already, so it doesn't make a lot of sense for them to come downtown right now...especially with our current population levels.
August 1, 20195 yr 200,000 downtown residents. And not just a bunch of 27-year-old single people. Another thing to think about with movie theaters is kids and teens. Without them there isn't nearly as much revenue. People think the theater can just show Pulp Fiction and Reservoir Dogs again and make the rest up with drink money but they can't. Edited August 1, 20195 yr by GCrites80s
August 1, 20195 yr 1 hour ago, troeros said: So what does it take for downtown Cincy to get what the Kenwood Collections all set in one building? At the moment the collections tower has; Crunch Fitness Envision Cinema Whole Foods Old Navy L.L Bean Crate and Barrel Mitchell Day Salon Cycle Bar Olio Italiano Guy Kaku Japanese BBQ Pies and Pints Matt the Miller Tavern Every time I drive by the tower it doesn't seem like it's stores alot of square feet but uses multiple floors and uses the space quite wisely. I just don't get why a developer has pursued an entertainment mixed use tower like this yet downtown? Is there just still a large lack of residents in the urban core for a developer to reasonably pursue something like this? Downtown currently has 1) Planet Fitness at Banks (along with a few other gyms in town) 2) AMC on the Levee (walking distance to downtown 3) Kroger at Court and Walnut (Opening in a month) 4) No Old Navy 5) No LL Bean Store (but there are other boutiques) 6) No Crate and Barrell (But how many downtown's have them) 7) While Mitchells is not there, there are other salons 8 ) No cycle bar but there are comparable places in town. 9) Pies and Pints at the banks 10) there are other Japanese and Itialian dining establishments and other places similar to Matt the Millers. SO based on your list, outside of the few trendy retail places, Downtown already has everything else.
September 8, 20195 yr Cincinnati.com: Chick-fil-A wants to open restaurant in Kenwood https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2019/09/08/chick-fil-a-kenwood-second-restaurant/2257153001/ Is it just me is Kenwood hitting critical mass with there ability to support suburban developement? Parking is already a nightmare during the holiday months so let's add a Chick-Fil-A on the Kenwood parking lot to even create a even larger traffic nightmare. Kenwood is great with so much business activity, but I truly think they are losing to support developement because of lack of suburban land. That's why I think we will soon see Kenwood slowly transition into cincinnati next urban neighborhood.
September 8, 20195 yr Yes, Kenwood is a lot like Upper Arlington except with more retail and will probably follow the same trajectory as far as switching to much more vertical development than in the past.
September 9, 20195 yr Kenwood, another one of those sneaky Cincinnati townships that no one knows is a township. I wonder if that affects why it hasn't gone vertical as easily, as say, Fake-Hyde-Park (aka Rookwood, aka Norwood). “To an Ohio resident - wherever he lives - some other part of his state seems unreal.”
September 9, 20195 yr 2 hours ago, troeros said: Cincinnati.com: Chick-fil-A wants to open restaurant in Kenwood https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2019/09/08/chick-fil-a-kenwood-second-restaurant/2257153001/ I could be wrong, but I'm going to go out on a limb and guess it won't just be a standalone Chick-Fil-A built in that parking lot. More than likely it'll be similar to what was done in Troy for their Chick-Fil-A: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0555795,-84.2406951,3a,75y,238.15h,81.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sazIzwczle3crIhRfXt6qmw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 If the developer was savvy and could lock down funding for it, that would be a prime spot for a retail/residential building with a skywalk from the parking garage to the residential component. In which case a taller building would make a lot of sense. But I'm guessing @BigDipper 80 is correct and Kenwood Twp. has height limitations or some other BS that keeps it from happening. Edited September 9, 20195 yr by SWOH
September 9, 20195 yr Not that it wont do extremely well, but I would think they would have tried to put it on the Montgomery Road side or as close to the highway as possible. It is a petty point since it will make a killing regardless, but figured they would have fought for more of the front entrance and visibility.
September 9, 20195 yr They would go great where the old Taco Bell was on Montgomery Rd was located before they closed that location
September 9, 20195 yr The last remaining land is probably the parking lots where d*cks/old toys r us is...aside from some of the remaining Kenwood mall lots...I just get the sense there has to be a massive revision for certain stretches of Kenwood in order to continue to support development. They are truly on the cusp of having no room left unless they demolish certain stretches of the suburban development in exchange for taller urban development with parking structures.
September 9, 20195 yr 14 hours ago, troeros said: Parking is already a nightmare during the holiday months so let's add a Chick-Fil-A on the Kenwood parking lot to even create a even larger traffic nightmare. If only there was a way to get a critical mass of people from population centers to shopping centers without cars... that would be a novel idea! There's so much potential for rail along 71 with the population centers and shopping/offices. But no, think of the children! There will be so much crime! The Kenwood Collection would be an excellent station/stop too if rail was ever built: tall offices/entertainment walking distance from the actual mall. Edited September 9, 20195 yr by 10albersa
September 11, 20195 yr I tried my best to de-tangle this thread and move the discussion about townships to the Ohio Local Government Structures thread.
September 11, 20195 yr On 9/8/2019 at 10:59 PM, savadams13 said: They would go great where the old Taco Bell was on Montgomery Rd was located before they closed that location I think the township is saving that parcel for a large office development or mixed use development
September 11, 20195 yr 41 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said: I think the township is saving that parcel for a large office development or mixed use development Of course that would make too much sense...
September 11, 20195 yr From what I understand, the township is land banking a bunch of property up there in the hopes that someone will come by with a huge new development that wows them someday and it can go on that spot.
September 11, 20195 yr 10 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said: From what I understand, the township is land banking a bunch of property up there in the hopes that someone will come by with a huge new development that wows them someday and it can go on that spot. So essentially they want their own Liberty Center?
September 11, 20195 yr Does anyone know the status of the development that is supposed to go across from the mall and next to the Jewish hospital?
September 11, 20195 yr 20 minutes ago, tonyt3524 said: So essentially they want their own Liberty Center? I don't know if it is a Liberty Center project. It is probably more of a office complex for the jobs. Similar to what is already next door.
October 2, 20195 yr https://www.wcpo.com/amid-bankruptcy-filing-forever-21-plans-to-close-all-cincinnati-are-locations Kenwood Mall Forever 21 Closes...Huge blow. Forever was very packed most of the time and was very serviceable with the cheap prices. That location is huge as well. Super sad to see this happen...Say what you want about online retail, it sucks that you have to rely on buying clothes online, especially if you don't know if it will fit correctly or if you like the material being used. Plus porch pirates are still a huge thing. Clothes shopping is meant for brick and mortar not online.
October 2, 20195 yr 4 hours ago, troeros said: https://www.wcpo.com/amid-bankruptcy-filing-forever-21-plans-to-close-all-cincinnati-are-locations Kenwood Mall Forever 21 Closes...Huge blow. Forever was very packed most of the time and was very serviceable with the cheap prices. That location is huge as well. Super sad to see this happen...Say what you want about online retail, it sucks that you have to rely on buying clothes online, especially if you don't know if it will fit correctly or if you like the material being used. Plus porch pirates are still a huge thing. Clothes shopping is meant for brick and mortar not online. 1) This store isn’t closed yet, and I’m told the final closure list isn’t finalized yet, this is a high performer for them. 2) Not a big deal if they do close I could easily see them being replaced by Zara which is wayyyyy overdue for the Cincy market. 3) This space is pretty sizable could this trigger a shuffle to finally accommodate Saks???? 4) What ever happens this space will not be empty for long.
October 2, 20195 yr 6 minutes ago, 646empire said: 1) This store isn’t closed yet, and I’m told the final closure list isn’t finalized yet, this is a high performer for them. 2) Not a big deal if they do close I could easily see them being replaced by Zara which is wayyyyy overdue for the Cincy market. 3) This space is pretty sizable could this trigger a shuffle to finally accommodate Saks???? 4) What ever happens this space will not be empty for long. Agree with this. Online is not killing bricks and mortar retail, its killing retailers who are unable to adapt to a more experiential and service oriented customer base. Kenwood is the one high performing mall in Cincinnati so I am sure there is a line and Zara is probably somewhere in the front of that. “All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.” -Friedrich Nietzsche
October 2, 20195 yr Everybody is losing a ton of money on online ordering. The return rates are massive. Like upwards of 50%. You can have an almost entirely automated picking process in a fulfillment center but returns require a ton of hands-on labor. I don't doubt that some places have calculated that it's cheaper to throw out returns than to repackage and restock them.
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