1 minute ago, jmecklenborg said:

Everybody is losing a ton of money on online ordering.  The return rates are massive.  Like upwards of 50%.  You can have an almost entirely automated picking process in a fulfillment center but returns require a ton of hands-on labor.  I don't doubt that some places have calculated that it's cheaper to throw out returns than to repackage and restock them.  

 

Yeah this is why I'm confused why Online Retail is such a "big thing"...besides the fact I've had countless porch pirate encounters who have stolen my packages, I've also dealt with trouble in returning my product and having the money returned within a reasonable time. Brick and Mortar retail is so simple, online can be so complicated and full of hassle...
 

Another example is this, teenage girls go to Forever 21 to buy their cute outfit for their night out...It's spontaneous, spur of the moment. No one has time to wait for their online package to arrive. People who buy clothes are very spontaneous in nature. They want their clothes now, so they can wear it the next hour. They don't want to wait. 

2 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

Yeah this is why I'm confused why Online Retail is such a "big thing"...besides the fact I've had countless porch pirate encounters who have stolen my packages, I've also dealt with trouble in returning my product and having the money returned within a reasonable time. Brick and Mortar retail is so simple, online can be so complicated and full of hassle...
 

Another example is this, teenage girls go to Forever 21 to buy their cute outfit for their night out...It's spontaneous, spur of the moment. No one has time to wait for their online package to arrive. People who buy clothes are very spontaneous in nature. They want their clothes now, so they can wear it the next hour. They don't want to wait. 

 

The one time I had a porch pirate steal a package Amazon immediately sent me a new one, no questions asked. Any time I've returned a product the refund is immediate. The one time I ordered a TV and it showed up with a shattered screen I took it to the UPS store and Amazon sent a new one overnight. It's so convenient. 

 

I try to shop local as much as possible, but I'd much rather order a TV from Amazon than go to Best Buy.

22 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

Everybody is losing a ton of money on online ordering.  The return rates are massive.  Like upwards of 50%.  You can have an almost entirely automated picking process in a fulfillment center but returns require a ton of hands-on labor.  I don't doubt that some places have calculated that it's cheaper to throw out returns than to repackage and restock them.  

 

 

And it's not just $12 items that get trashed like this. There are some things in the hundreds of dollars that just get tossed -- especially items that only fit certain things like car parts.

12 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

Yeah this is why I'm confused why Online Retail is such a "big thing"...besides the fact I've had countless porch pirate encounters who have stolen my packages, I've also dealt with trouble in returning my product and having the money returned within a reasonable time. Brick and Mortar retail is so simple, online can be so complicated and full of hassle...

 

I recently returned some stuff I bought online to Macy's in Tri-County.  They have 4 people at a desk right inside the place who accept returns.  It's really easy - easier than returning the stuff in the mail if it's big.  But the store itself was sad and there weren't many people shopping.  

Something I've learned from being taunted by customers that think they are such badasses because they have the internet is that the average person totally sucks at buying things on the internet. Yet they are actually much better at buying things in real life than they think. I've had so many of these people quote totally inaccurate prices (both high and low) from websites, compare apples to oranges, use "Buy It Now" prices on collectibles as actual price data, be proven wrong by showing them the screen and on and on. If there is any question of compatibility they've got trouble!  No wonder everything online gets returned.

Forever 21 leaving is going to be a big blow to class B malls all over the US... guessing things will be OK for Kenwood.

 

Looking at the directory map, it's hard to envision Saks moving/adding on to that space to make it work for them unless they were able to get North Face, Victoria's Secret, and American Eagle all relocated to somewhere else in the mall. That being said, given the way downtown is developing now it'd be a great time to put the Saks space to better use in the city and move it out to the suburbs.

 

 

Edited October 2, 20195 yr by SWOH
grammar

1 hour ago, SWOH said:

Forever 21 leaving is going to be a big blow to class B malls all over the US... guessing things will be OK for Kenwood.

 

Looking at the directory map, it's hard to envision Saks moving/adding on to that space to make it work for them unless they were able to get North Face, Victoria's Secret, and American Eagle all relocated to somewhere else in the mall. That being said, given the way downtown is developing now it'd be a great time to put the Saks space to better use in the city and move it out to the suburbs.

 

 

 

 

I was actually envisioning a couple retailers currently located further down in/near “the luxury” wing being moved into the forever 21 space freeing up room for a saks expansion. Im not really seeing saks building a store where forever 21 is currently located, I think that location is too close to the food court I don’t think they would like it. As is it’s a perfect place for ZARA tho.

 

2 hours ago, 646empire said:

 

 

I was actually envisioning a couple retailers currently located further down in/near “the luxury” wing being moved into the forever 21 space freeing up room for a saks expansion. Im not really seeing saks building a store where forever 21 is currently located, I think that location is too close to the food court I don’t think they would like it. As is it’s a perfect place for ZARA tho.

 

Zara or Uniqlo would be amazing. 

What is this obsession with Saks? They charge $100 for a t-shirt. The average worker can't afford that. Doctors, Lawyers? Sure, but the average guy whose into fashion and works on am average salary can't nearly afford Saks..fashion should be accessible to everyone, not just the wealthy.

6 hours ago, troeros said:

What is this obsession with Saks? They charge $100 for a t-shirt. The average worker can't afford that. Doctors, Lawyers? Sure, but the average guy whose into fashion and works on am average salary can't nearly afford Saks..fashion should be accessible to everyone, not just the wealthy.

 

Fashion IS accessible to everyone in my opinion. Also you can’t really blame the prices themselves on just the retailer they are also dictated by the manufacturer is this case brands such as Gucci, Prada, Louis Vuitton and such. And I don’t think anyone is obsessed with Saks we are only talking about it here because this city’s location will probably close or be moved I suspect within the next 18 months or so

Edited October 3, 20195 yr by 646empire

Hudson's Bay (Saks parent company) reported almost a billion dollar loss this quarter. I don't see Saks going anywhere, especially considering they pay next to nothing in rent downtown and would be paying quite a bit up in Kenwood. Ideally, Dillards would go, the space would be leveled, and Saks would move in, but I just don't see that in the cards for them.  I agree, though, I think that spot would be perfect for a Zara. 

20 hours ago, GCrites80s said:

Something I've learned from being taunted by customers that think they are such badasses because they have the internet is that the average person totally sucks at buying things on the internet. 

 

A lot of customers like to go shopping, or order a pizza, because for that brief moment they get to feel important.  

2 hours ago, 513to424 said:

Hudson's Bay (Saks parent company) reported almost a billion dollar loss this quarter. I don't see Saks going anywhere, especially considering they pay next to nothing in rent downtown and would be paying quite a bit up in Kenwood. Ideally, Dillards would go, the space would be leveled, and Saks would move in, but I just don't see that in the cards for them.  I agree, though, I think that spot would be perfect for a Zara. 

 

If a retailer is experiencing billion dollar loses it doesn’t matter if they are paying next to nothing in rent the company will still close under performing stores. I know people who work at that store and although it’s financials are not really in the red it’s only slightly in the black. Macy’s at fountain place also wasn’t in the red from what I was told they where just about breaking even and they still closed the store. Rent is huge but there are many other cost associated to keeping a location open. Building a new store and paying more rent in Kenwood is worth it IF the new location see’s significant growth over the old place (which Im certain they would).

Edited October 3, 20195 yr by 646empire

Payroll dwarfs rent in most cases.

Former Verbarg's Furniture Store has been demolished to make way for a new Graeter's Ice Cream store on Montgomery Road just south of Galbraith.

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2020/01/21/development-team-starts-demolition-for-130m-mixed.html?iana=hpmvp_cinci_news_headline
 

kind of confused as why they are building all of this here and not where that sad empty Taco Bell and pep boys Currently is. 

Development team starts demolition for $130M mixed-use Kenwood project

 

Demolition is scheduled to begin this week to make way for a $130 million mixed-use development across from Kenwood Towne Centre.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2020/01/21/development-team-starts-demolition-for-130m-mixed.html

 

This building at the corner of Kenwood and Montgomery has been torn down. Snooping around in the internet it appears it’s going to be a Bank of America/Merrill lynch.

15 hours ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

This building at the corner of Kenwood and Montgomery has been torn down. Snooping around in the internet it appears it’s going to be a Bank of America/Merrill lynch.

 

You are correct, it will be BofA bank branch with additional office lending space. 

H & M in the Kenwood mall has shut down. 

 

Kenwood mall has been hit really hard by the pandemic..low key worried about it's future as the mall continues to lose major tenants. 

2 hours ago, troeros said:

H & M in the Kenwood mall has shut down. 

 

Kenwood mall has been hit really hard by the pandemic..low key worried about it's future as the mall continues to lose major tenants. 

Thats strange and is very big news. H&M is a very popular and affordable chain and would seem to do fine at a time when customers are cash strapped due to the pandemic. At some point Kenwood Mall may need to do a bit of a tenant re shuffle/ Redevelopment to eliminate some square footage.

In the past Kenwood was almost untouchable. Usually if a store closed there that meant that the whole chain went down at the same time.

3 hours ago, troeros said:

low key worried about it's future as the mall continues to lose major tenants.

 

Honestly, it's a good thing, the decline of single-use commercial will hit everywhere in the US at some point.  That tract of land is so valuable, it won't sit vacant for long, I imagine they'd run it back as an Easton Town Center type development.

Hell, if Colerain is talking about doing that to their mall, Sycamore Township surely can get the investors to dump cash into a project like that.

Edited November 18, 20204 yr by 10albersa

1 minute ago, 10albersa said:

 

Honestly, it's a good thing, the decline of single-use commercial will hit everywhere in the US at some point.  That tract of land is so valuable, it won't sit vacant for long, I imagine they'd run it back as an Easton Town Hall type development.

Hell, if Colerain is talking about doing that to their mall, Sycamore Township surely can get the investors to dump cash into a project like that.

Exactly. Kenwood as Cincinnati’s core retail destination isn’t under threat at all. No other destination in the region is picking off its stores or anything like that plus physical store retail was falling apart way before corona. But a mini Easton like redo development seems very possible even probable for the mall. That location is very valuable surrounded by great income households and centrally located to everyone else in the city. This also may provide the perfect opportunity to squeeze Saks in. I’m surprised the downtown store is still open. 

It's already kinda like Easton anyway so making it more like it wouldn't be a stretch. 

On 2/2/2020 at 7:45 PM, Ucgrad2015 said:

This building at the corner of Kenwood and Montgomery has been torn down. Snooping around in the internet it appears it’s going to be a Bank of America/Merrill lynch.

 

No surprise here but construction is already complete (picture from last Wednesday)

On 11/17/2020 at 6:34 PM, troeros said:

H & M in the Kenwood mall has shut down. 

 

Kenwood mall has been hit really hard by the pandemic..low key worried about it's future as the mall continues to lose major tenants. 

 

H&M on the whole isn't performing as well as expected and will close 250 stores next year: https://www.retaildive.com/news/hm-to-close-250-stores-next-year/586241/. It's plan for physical expansion is being replaced with a digital/online focus.

2 hours ago, seicer said:

 

H&M on the whole isn't performing as well as expected and will close 250 stores next year: https://www.retaildive.com/news/hm-to-close-250-stores-next-year/586241/. It's plan for physical expansion is being replaced with a digital/online focus.

I would have thought eastgate would have closed before kenwood. 

54 minutes ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

I would have thought eastgate would have closed before kenwood. 

That’s a very good point. Kenwood is obviously more expensive per square foot so maybe it’s lease related, not sure.

A lot of malls would give something like H&M a discount on the lease since sub-anchors are taking the place of anchors in drawing foot traffic these days. But until this year Kenwood didn't have to do stuff like that as much as some other malls did.

44 minutes ago, 646empire said:

That’s a very good point. Kenwood is obviously more expensive per square foot so maybe it’s lease related, not sure.

Just speculation but they have been doing some demo work at the old Nike outlet next to Nordstrom rack in rookwood commons. Maybe a relocation of H&M to Rookwood? 

34 minutes ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

Just speculation but they have been doing some demo work at the old Nike outlet next to Nordstrom rack in rookwood commons. Maybe a relocation of H&M to Rookwood? 

I would assume considering their financial struggles H&M wouldn’t be opening new stores especially in mid size cities until further notice. Plus I can’t imagine H&M would perform better in Rookwood over Kenwood. Kenwood Malls foot traffic and H&Ms now closed location adjacent to that super busy food court would seem more desirable.

Was it 10 years that H&M was at Kenwood?

6 minutes ago, GCrites80s said:

Was it 10 years that H&M was at Kenwood?

yeah I think so, definitely a long time. (in retail years*. Lol). I guess this means Zara isn’t coming to Cincinnati anytime soon, it would do well and Cincinnati would definitely like it.

On 11/24/2020 at 2:58 PM, Ucgrad2015 said:

I would have thought eastgate would have closed before kenwood. 

 

The Eastgate store is closing too. I know someone who used to work at that location and was told they are closing after Christmas. H&M is really struggling right now.

14 hours ago, OliverHazardPerry said:

 

The Eastgate store is closing too. I know someone who used to work at that location and was told they are closing after Christmas. H&M is really struggling right now.

Looking on their website. The only one that shows up is the one at Liberty Center, so even the one in Florence is closed or is closing. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wlwt.com/amp/article/new-shared-coworking-social-space-with-golf-simulator-dining-options-coming-to-kenwood/36407153
 

Not really sure where this is going. They mention it’s a building around Tiffany’s and Louis Vuitton but there’s not a lot of space around that area. Maybe where the entrance is between those two stores? 

3 minutes ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wlwt.com/amp/article/new-shared-coworking-social-space-with-golf-simulator-dining-options-coming-to-kenwood/36407153
 

Not really sure where this is going. They mention it’s a building around Tiffany’s and Louis Vuitton but there’s not a lot of space around that area. Maybe where the entrance is between those two stores? 

They are basically taking the mall's old service department offices and some leftover shell space next to Tiffany's:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2014671,-84.3798563,3a,75y,144.84h,82.24t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBeQr-h8_e9ps2HoIkV3Xsg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en&authuser=0

Disney store at the kenwood mall is closing July 14.

 

sad things are going on at kenwood mall folks. Food court half empty. Probably 35 percent tenants gone with new clearance rack tenants taking over because of kenwood low rent. 
 

Malls are dead folks. I never thought this would happen with Kenwood but it’s official, malls are truly on the way out.

13 minutes ago, Troeros2 said:

Disney store at the kenwood mall is closing July 14.

 

sad things are going on at kenwood mall folks. Food court half empty. Probably 35 percent tenants gone with new clearance rack tenants taking over because of kenwood low rent. 
 

Malls are dead folks. I never thought this would happen with Kenwood but it’s official, malls are truly on the way out.

I think this is a bit of a over reaction, Kenwood like many malls are definitely struggling but I think they will have a prominent place in retail for a long time to come. Smaller malls/retail centers are probably in the future. Online retail is huge and growing but it has its critical flaws too especially in the luxury sector. 

1 minute ago, 646empire said:

I think this is a bit of a over reaction, Kenwood like many malls are definitely struggling but I think they will have a prominent place in retail for a long time to come. Smaller malls/retail centers are probably in the future. Online retail is huge and growing but it has its critical flaws too especially in the luxury sector. 

In other news an official Rolex store is coming next to Nordstrom. 
 

That’s a first for the Cincinnati area I believe. 
 

I just don’t understand how Kenwood can give Rolex and other big brand retail, but than have a crap discount clothes store that took over h and m by the food court. 
 

No way that h and m replace can afford that rent cost...I don’t get at all what is going on with Kenwood retail rent prices. 
 

They are attracting Rolex but are also attracting tenants that used to be at east gate.  
 

 

19 minutes ago, Troeros2 said:

Disney store at the kenwood mall is closing July 14.

 

sad things are going on at kenwood mall folks. Food court half empty. Probably 35 percent tenants gone with new clearance rack tenants taking over because of kenwood low rent. 
 

Malls are dead folks. I never thought this would happen with Kenwood but it’s official, malls are truly on the way out.

 

 

20 minutes ago, Troeros2 said:

Disney store at the kenwood mall is closing July 14.

 

sad things are going on at kenwood mall folks. Food court half empty. Probably 35 percent tenants gone with new clearance rack tenants taking over because of kenwood low rent. 
 

Malls are dead folks. I never thought this would happen with Kenwood but it’s official, malls are truly on the way out.

Also unfortunately if Kenwood is struggling you better believe Cincinnati retail as a whole is too. When I was in Cincy recently I was at Rookwood which is pretty much Cincinnati’s #2 after Kenwood and it felt dead with a flat mix of stores and some vacancies too.

3 minutes ago, Troeros2 said:

In other news an official Rolex store is coming next to Nordstrom. 
 

That’s a first for the Cincinnati area I believe. 
 

I just don’t understand how Kenwood can give Rolex and other big brand retail, but than have a crap discount clothes store that took over h and m by the food court. 
 

No way that h and m replace can afford that rent cost...I don’t get at all what is going on with Kenwood retail rent prices. 
 

They are attracting Rolex but are also attracting tenants that used to be at east gate.  
 

 

But this goes back to my point, Luxury retail does not translate well Online. Luxury is going to always have brick and mortar stores at its core. Very few people are going to order a Rolex online not even the very rich. One more point tho, those cheap tenants your talking about have short term leases and will be easily closed if demand from more prominent retailers picks up.

This doesn't bother me in the least, especially in Kenwood. If it gets bleak enough, something more times-appropriate (dense, walkable) will work there in an instant, and the area will be better for it. I'm hoping for it.

 

 

1 minute ago, zsnyder said:

This doesn't bother me in the least, especially in Kenwood. If it gets bleak enough, something more times-appropriate (dense, walkable) will work there in an instant, and the area will be better for it. I'm hoping for it.

 

 

Same. That area is HOT and has been for a long time. If the tenant situation gets really bad and they have too much square footage I’m sure Brookfield Properties will gladly break part of it up for redevelopment. The return on investment would be automatic.

22 minutes ago, Troeros2 said:

In other news an official Rolex store is coming next to Nordstrom. 

But this is definitely a big deal. Rolex doesn’t do a lot of stores. In my opinion this says Kenwood Mall is still flagship status and not dying but they do have too much square footage and are plugging holes in other parts of the mall with less than desirable tenants. The “Nordstrom Wing” of the mall has always been pretty solid.

^ After doing a little more research Cincinnati getting a Rolex store is pretty flashy, Rolex mostly has authorized partner stores but true Rolex stores are on the rare side. Cincinnati’s would be the only one outside of Chicago in the Mid-West. The only ones I’ve seen in person are here In NYC on 5th Ave and Hudson Yards.

Edited June 20, 20213 yr by 646empire

Even something along the lines of Clayton, MO. would be preferable to the mall. The stuff along the highway is already hinting at it.

 

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, zsnyder said:

Even something along the lines of Clayton, MO. would be preferable to the mall. The stuff along the highway is already hinting at it.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, breaking the mall up a bit would be interesting and may have to go the Easton Towne Center route in regards to a part indoor part outdoor sections. Leaving the Nordstrom/Luxury Wing intact down to about The Apple Store or a bit further to Cheesecake Factory. After that is when it could get fun, Kenwood Macy’s is one of the company’s top performers so do they make it a stand alone and build a small plaza of stores to accompany it along with residential and entertainment ? What a project it could be! 

Edited June 20, 20213 yr by 646empire

1 hour ago, 646empire said:

Yeah, breaking the mall up a bit would be interesting and may have to go the Easton Towne Center route in regards to a part indoor part outdoor sections. Leaving the Nordstrom/Luxury Wing intact down to about The Apple Store or a bit further to Cheesecake Factory. After that is when it could get fun, Kenwood Macy’s is one of the company’s top performers so do they make it a stand alone and build a small plaza of stores to accompany it along with residential and entertainment ? What a project it could be! 

Easton is finally getting into office space. The latest stuff there is all multi-story, but it's still not such a great performer on the residential side. Clayton is perhaps the wrong precedent, too (I was referring to as mostly as St. Louis' second downtown), it's a bit of a ghost town at night. Easton would be even better if the office and residential had been integrated from the start, but it was in the middle of Nothing  and Morse Road when it broke ground. It had to start as a destination...

 

Combine all that together, and maybe don't put it all under the umbrella of one developer and/or Architect (Easton still has that mall smell...), and we may have something.

 

But we digress. The original post was a bit alarmist.