48 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

^This looks familiar.  Has @KJP done some reporting on this project at some time in the past?

 

Perhaps. There was this about APL land next door to this site being purchased by Knez.

 

 

1 hour ago, Htsguy said:

^This looks familiar.  Has @KJP done some reporting on this project at some time in the past?

 

I also had some Deja Vu when I saw this and the closest I can find is THIS ARTICLE from him which is what I was thinking of but it is indeed another Tremont project.

I've been trying to get renders from Geis but they won't release them publicly until the Near West DR meets this week. BTW, the developer is actually Agostino Pintus. Geis is doing the design/build/manage. They're not involved in financing.

 

This is one of those areas that is going to be VERY different in a few years. Not just because of Pintus/Geis or even Knez or even Realife on the other side of Walworth Run.

 

Near West Side continues to boom

By Ken Prendergast / April 26, 2022

 

If it’s Tuesday, then the West Side must be adding another apartment building. With remarkable frequency, Tremont, Ohio City and other near-west-side Cleveland neighborhoods continue to attract new residential developments. And given the current tight state of the local real estate market, that means more apartments. Lots of them.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2022/04/26/near-west-side-continues-to-boom/

@KJP  Any "Pearl" updates?  I imagine if you did have some news you would have reported it in this new article.  I am concerned that we really have not heard much about it lately.  I would have thought it would have been before Design Review by now.

Nothing. The only thing I've heard is a rumor that either one or both of their recently proposed projects (The Pearl, The Pine) is an attempt to boost property values so that they can get more money from selling. I hope the rumor is wrong.

There's an abundance ($$$$) of sewers under the Pearl site that need to be moved or designed around. I wouldn't expect the last rendering to be very close to the final product if that site gets built on. 

If Knez follows through on the trail connector I think there's a bigger need for some retail space on the ground floor. Am I out of touch on that? Nearly every apartment building should have a ground floor retail space imo.

16 hours ago, KJP said:

Nothing. The only thing I've heard is a rumor that either one or both of their recently proposed projects (The Pearl, The Pine) is an attempt to boost property values so that they can get more money from selling. I hope the rumor is wrong.

Is this the developer that proposed a fantasy development on the east bank of the Flats years ago for a similar reason?

22 hours ago, KJP said:

Nothing. The only thing I've heard is a rumor that either one or both of their recently proposed projects (The Pearl, The Pine) is an attempt to boost property values so that they can get more money from selling. I hope the rumor is wrong.

 

That sounds more like what I'd expect from them

Part of this is in Tremont, but since the RTA station is named Ohio City, I posted it in that thread....

 

 

 

1 minute ago, KJP said:

 

Ohio City RTA station site ideas arrive

By Ken Prendergast / May 18, 2022

 

Representatives of a real estate development partnership have been making the rounds of near-west-side neighborhood block clubs to present conceptual ideas and get feedback for developing land next to the West 25th-Ohio City Red Line Station. But those same representatives caution they are still early in the design process so there is no formal plan yet.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2022/05/18/ohio-city-rta-station-site-ideas-arrive/

 

 

Plan for Sokolowski's site.

 

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/oh-cuyahoga/breathing-new-life-into-the-old-sokolowskis-restaurant-site-in-cleveland

28 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said:

Plan for Sokolowski's site.

 

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/oh-cuyahoga/breathing-new-life-into-the-old-sokolowskis-restaurant-site-in-cleveland

This is my favorite Geis design I've ever seen.

16 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said:

This is my favorite Geis design I've ever seen.

 

Not a huge fan. Would prefer if all that activity on the terrace was on the street level and I think the covered street/sidewalk will become an unwelcoming environment for pedestrians/turns what is currently a multi-modal street with good sight lines into a glorified covered parking lot. Plus, the site itself is already elevated and overlooks downtown, there is no need for a terrace.

6 minutes ago, andrew0816 said:

 

Not a huge fan. Would prefer if all that activity on the terrace was on the street level and I think the covered street/sidewalk will become an unwelcoming environment for pedestrians/turns what is currently a multi-modal street with good sight lines into a glorified covered parking lot. Plus, the site itself is already elevated and overlooks downtown, there is no need for a terrace.

 

Can appreciate that its a jarring departure from conventional design - especially if the topography immediately surrounding the building is flat and there's really no need to have an elevated terrace - but on the flip side, the opportunity for art and lighting (think Burning Man style creativity) could make it an interesting urban experience. 

 

I'm really sad to see the building go though - its an innate part of Cleveland. This one hurts. 

Edited May 18, 20223 yr by ASP1984

59 minutes ago, ASP1984 said:

 

Can appreciate that its a jarring departure from conventional design - especially if the topography immediately surrounding the building is flat and there's really no need to have an elevated terrace - but on the flip side, the opportunity for art and lighting (think Burning Man style creativity) could make it an interesting urban experience. 

 

I'm really sad to see the building go though - its an innate part of Cleveland. This one hurts. 

I don't have much faith in a Geis designed development incorporating creative design elements, but hopefully as details emerge we'll get a better sense of what their plans for the site are.

 

As far as losing the existing building, I'm not that sad about it. Wish the restaurant itself could be revived and be a part of the new development though (or open somewhere else).

Edited May 18, 20223 yr by andrew0816
Edited for clarity

The city should vacate those streets and provide the land in exchange for developers putting the parking underground and bringing the retail to ground level.  

What exactly is the orientation of the above image? If the idea is for cars to encircle this building below the terrace level, it doesn't make sense. There is a parking lot across the street from the Sokoloski's building, and it only just became a bike path in front. There is no need to add cars back into this mix. 

this is a bad plan if they intend to build over the street.

and this cafeteria style pod thing won't work

 

1 hour ago, ASP1984 said:

 

I'm really sad to see the building go though - its an innate part of Cleveland. This one hurts. 

 

Right. I really wish this new development could be taking place in one of the countless blighted or open spaces in the city. 

11 minutes ago, surfohio said:

 

Right. I really wish this new development could be taking place in one of the countless blighted or open spaces in the city. 

So we are mad that a dense building with deck connections to a well used towpath trail is replacing a vacant restaurant spot in a prime downtown view location. And it's also Incorporating food?

 

I've read most of the comments and clearly many of you do not traverse this trail often. This is going to be a great success. Not only does it have the towpath parking across the street but some people do like to park right next to the trail, get out and bike long distances. That area is a nexus for people going north and south and an ending spot for many users (that hill is a b##ch to run up) . This seems like a great use to me. 

 

Part of me agrees that it should be at street level but another part of me sees why they would want to have some level of disconnect from the trail as it is a resident patio as well to some extent. 

 

To each their own I guess. I can think of a thousand worse ideas, and unfortunately that trail is already smattered with single family homes in Tremont. It will be nice to have a mix of uses in that area. 

 

Edit: Also, I just spent some time in Omaha and ate at a food hall attached to an apartment building there. My friends and I were just talking about how an outdoor food hall would be awesome in summer. This could maybe have those vibes. On top of that the trail isn't as often used in the winter months so having a three seasons outdoor area is actually a good idea, especially for food trucks who want a stand to make more revenue. 

Edited May 18, 20223 yr by KFM44107

3 minutes ago, KFM44107 said:

So we are mad that a dense building with deck connections to a well used towpath trail is replacing a vacant restaurant spot in a prime downtown view location. And it's also Incorporating food?

 

I've read most of the comments and clearly many of you do not traverse this trail often. This is going to be a great success. Not only does it have the towpath parking across the street but some people do like to park right next to the trail, get out and bike long distances. That area is a nexus for people going north and south and an ending spot for many users (that hill is a b##ch to run up) . This seems like a great use to me. 

 

Part of me agrees that it should be at street level but another part of me sees why they would want to have some level of disconnect from the trail as it is a resident patio as well to some extent. 

 

To each their own I guess. I can think of a thousand worse ideas, and unfortunately that trail is already smattered with single family homes in Tremont. It will be nice to have a mix of uses in that area. 

 

Who's mad? But your description of Sokeleski's makes me wonder if you realize just how much of an institution it was up until very recently. You make it sound like it was some decaying empty building lol. 

 

No it was a thriving space where all of my out of town visitors wanted to go because it was unique and world famous. 

^ That's a great idea in theory but in the real world I think the reason these guy are proposing the development in the first place is the location. After all, it is a prime lot with great views of the valley and downtown. I doubt they are interested in doing this project on some empty lot in a blighted area elsewhere in Cleveland. That's just the way it is. 

 

I miss Sokowloski's too. I wish Covid hadn't killed it off. It certainly was a unique part of Cleveland's history. But we have to move on now and this development can be a prominent part of the Tremont landscape. 

Just now, surfohio said:

 

Who's mad? But your description of Sokeleski's makes me wonder if you realize just how much of an institution it was up until very recently. You make it sound like it was some decaying empty building lol. 

 

No it was a thriving space where all of my out of town visitors wanted to go because it was unique and world famous. 

Listen I know what Sokolowskis was to this city. But I also know the owner was not the nicest of people.

 

On top of that, he retired and sold. You aren't going to reclaim that old glory, that's nostalgia talking. It's okay to pivot and create a new destination within itself for those who like to utilize the outdoors. 

this should be a 10-12 story condo building with retail space on the nw corner, imo.

a lot of people do use the trail, but I don't think it gets enough foot traffic to make this terrace/cafeteria pod seem vibrant. 

kfm bona fides: lived a block away for 5 yrs

1 minute ago, KFM44107 said:

Listen I know what Sokolowskis was to this city. But I also know the owner was not the nicest of people.

 

On top of that, he retired and sold. You aren't going to reclaim that old glory, that's nostalgia talking. It's okay to pivot and create a new destination within itself for those who like to utilize the outdoors. 

 

Nobody is nice.

 

I understand just how important the Towpath is, as over the years I have probably used it more than anyone, except maybe for @GISguy who is a cycling maniac. It's just from a land-use perspective ask yourself, "is this location the best location for this style and scale?" 

 

It's a fair question. 

4 minutes ago, Whipjacka said:

this should be a 10-12 story condo building with retail space on the nw corner, imo.

a lot of people do use the trail, but I don't think it gets enough foot traffic to make this terrace/cafeteria pod seem vibrant. 

kfm bona fides: lived a block away for 5 yrs

I can agree with the condo portion. 

 

2 minutes ago, surfohio said:

 

Nobody is nice.

 

I understand just how important the Towpath is, as over the years I have probably used it more than anyone, except maybe for @GISguy who is a cycling maniac. It's just from a land-use perspective ask yourself, "is this location the best location for this style and scale?" 

 

It's a fair question. 

Ya. I don't disagree. Question. Would people feel more or less good about the project if it was instead a patio over covered retail opposed to that wrap around street?

17 minutes ago, KFM44107 said:

Ya. I don't disagree. Question. Would people feel more or less good about the project if it was instead a patio over covered retail opposed to that wrap around street?

 

Great question. I kind of want to see more details at street level. But my initial reaction to the rendering is I like it. 

 

Please no value engineering lol. 

I'm also skeptical of elevating all of the activity to a second floor patio. That said, I think there's a chance it could be really cool! It just depends on the little details and how well they interface with the Towpath. 

 

This actually reminds me of the Yours Truly in Rockside which is elevated and right off the Towpath trail. It seems to work well in that location, so it might work here as well. 

Jesus, that's the most hideous thing I've ever seen.  They're going to put all the public uses on a 2nd floor terrace and turn neighborhood streets into traffic gutters.  There's no way that this should be allowed to be built like that

Lots of graphics in this article.... 😉

 

 

Sokolowski’s to be razed for apartments over retail

By Ken Prendergast / May 18, 2022

 

Two local businessmen are seeking to redevelop the former Sokolowski’s University Inn restaurant property, 1201 University Rd., into a six-story luxury apartment building, if the project is approved by the city of Cleveland as designed. The first step in the city’s design-review process began yesterday as a Tremont neighborhood block club saw and gave input to the project’s plans for the first time.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2022/05/18/sokolowskis-to-be-razed-for-apartments/

I will say I love how Mullberry's in the West Bank has stairs leading right from the Centennial Trail. I can go for runs all the time and not even have to go out of my to stop for a beer. Seeing a possibility we can get more retail/restaurant off of popular trails will only help more people use them! 

 

That being said I think the deck seems a little too imposing in these pictures. Not sure if I like that look.

 

actually now that I look at the plans, having the deck facing the NW corner on the towpath trail NOT the street corner that I initially thought makes way more sense. Looks good to me

 

Edited May 18, 20223 yr by dwolfi01

2 minutes ago, dwolfi01 said:

That being said I think the deck seems a little too imposing in these pictures. Not sure if I like that look.

I agree.  It seems like they are trying to squeeze too much into that space.  

So there is going to be retail on the first floor? Did I read that right?

Just now, KFM44107 said:

So there is going to be retail on the first floor? Did I read that right?

 

Yes. And on the terrace.

Agree with the comments above, also the aerial shows how useless university ave is… w11th should become a dead end with this project

On more image, this one of the terrace while on the terrace

 

4 hours ago, KFM44107 said:

So we are mad that a dense building with deck connections to a well used towpath trail is replacing a vacant restaurant spot in a prime downtown view location. And it's also Incorporating food?
 

Much of Cleveland’s cultural and industrial legacy lies in its Eastern European roots. Not many cities are pocketed with German/Polish/Slovakian style beer halls and cafeterias the way Cleveland is. This could absolutely be revived as another restaurant.

You speak as though you never visited the place, though I won’t be that presumptuous. I do, however, have blood running through my veins and can at least spot cultural value when I see it. But sure, let’s barf up another soulless rectangle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited May 18, 20223 yr by ASP1984

This will undoubtedly be a terrible design from Geis and the developer Giancarlo should know better (he’s on Landmarks).

This is certainly ambitious for that site. It's nice to get significant retail on both the ground and second floors, not just small, coffee shop-sized stalls like in other apartment projects. That second floor space overlooking downtown could be great.

 

Still not sure how the terrace will interact with the sidewalk. It will block visibility of the building itself. I'm picturing the sidewalk sheds all over New York. They give a canyon vibe on the ground.

 

The irony of Giancarlo being involved, considering how much he complains in Landmark meetings about buildings being "too big" for their surroundings.

... don't yell at me...

 

I like the renderings... 

Sure, Sokolowski’s was a long- time Favorite Cleveland restaurant with the decidedly hometown ambience.  
 

But everything has its time and eventually,  runs its course…. At this point, this is a big win in terms of activating a parcel with a substantial building  that adds residents (and though unconventional) a clear pedestrian  energy. Even though the restaurant pods are not at street level, there should hopefully be excellent energy at the location - and, yes, there’s retail presence too - Excellent. 
 

To me, this is a no-brainer - it’s another solid residential development that infuses more life into an increasingly dynamic area.  Let’s build this  and celebrate the energy that is all through Tremont and Ohio City  

Edited May 18, 20223 yr by CleveFan

The pedestal is to get the terrace view above the Innerbelt Bridge.

 

Treo, Edison for sale for different reasons
By Ken Prendergast / May 18, 2022

 

Two near-West Side Cleveland multi-family properties hit the market this week but for two very different reasons. In the Lincoln Park section of Tremont, the still-under construction Treo was offered for sale today. Tomorrow, it will be The Edison’s turn to test the waters. The Edison at Gordon Square was built five years ago near Edgewater Park in the Detroit-Shoreway neighborhood.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2022/05/18/treo-edison-for-sale-for-different-reasons/

I think a better solution (that's probably not viable) would be to totally vacate West 13th and the remaining drivable part of University Road and simply make it one big pedestrian space. Even if the terrace is a must-have for better views, I still think this would be better. Having a covered roadway right there is an interesting aesthetical choice to say the least. 

 

If it were me, I'd do that and add the retail/restaurant spaces to the ground level and add a rooftop bar/restaurant which would give some of the best views of the city

I realize I'm spending someone else's money here, but since a variance is needed here to go over 35 feet height, why stop at six stories? I think it would be cool to enter downtown on I-90 and have an urban neighborhood on the other side of the Cuyahoga Valley with some vertical density. Six stories is OK, but only five will stand out above the elevated highway. I'd like to see it go 7-10 stories.

And I bet that those extra higher floors would be in high demand - even 2 or 3 extra floors would really create a presence. 

On 5/18/2022 at 5:29 PM, YABO713 said:

... don't yell at me...

 

I like the renderings... 

 

me too.

 

I like the renderings too. At first I didn't like the site plan, but with KJP's extra graphics it became more clear. I think those that dislike it are picturing things like I did at first, 180 degrees from the actual site plan. The deck isn't over Abbey Ave/West 11th, it's on the other corner of the site. That corner was literally just parking before the towpath plaza was built, now it's just a useless street that doesn't lead anywhere. There's also a bit of greenspace/setback on Abbey Ave so it won't feel like you're going into a subway tunnel approaching as a pedestrian from the street.

^The other corner of the site is still really important !  This sort of deck would make that stretch of the towpath trail much drearier, I reckon. The building bulk is fine but shoving the deck over the public ROW at the expense of the public realm is extremely lousy, IMHO.  Geis is trying to have its cake and eat it too at this site.