Personally, I see wanna be style followers shopping at those stores.

 

To better Clevelands retail enviornment, I'll say yes, they would be a good fit for downtown and the cleveland market.  Teenagers, College kids, first time out of the nest and new job entrants will shop at those stores.

 

Those stores will have people who "live for them" and in addition, you'll get the folks who left something at home when traveling and want to replace it, but not at a huge expense, type of folks.

Personally, I see wanna be style followers shopping at those stores.

 

well sure they are all pretty basic retail chain merch. a thousand pardons, i would have never thought of them for you oh mighty queen of couture - lol!

"you shopped at mexx and you travel. so you like mexx but somehow dont think its right for cleveland area? hmm. if you like it enough to shop there why not? i think its a perfect fit."

 

Whaaaa....??? You're putting words in my mouth - please cite where I said that mexx, H&M, or any other store wouldn't be a good fit for Tower City or downtown Cleveland. I didn't, and so I'm really not following your comments because they're completely out of context and out of left field. They have absolutely nothing to do with anything I've ever said. Maybe you've confused me with MyTwoSense? I mean, sure we're both gay but he's tall and Puerto Rican, I'm average height and Caucasian. :-) Anyhoo, I'd love all of the above to open shop in Cleveland. Repeat after me - MayDay likes retail (for the most part).

 

"Personally, I see wanna be style followers shopping at those stores."

 

Rather than judge peoples' motives for shopping at such places, I'm just glad they shop there rather than the local feedsack store. I also consider that maybe not everyone is able to afford stores like Barneys or Bergdorf, but I give them points for trying. Rather than judge them for doing the best they can with what they have, I consider that maybe they don't make as much as me, or maybe they're spending their money on something else, like tuition.

oh i prob am confusing you guys sorry, otoh why didnt you say they would be a good fit either?

 

that is, it begs the question what do you think would be a good fit for downtown, tc and the region as far as new retail? so i threw some things out there...your turn.

mexx don't do it for me. Canada, you can keep it.

"Personally, I see wanna be style followers shopping at those stores."

 

Rather than judge peoples' motives for shopping at such places, I'm just glad they shop there rather than the local feedsack store. I also consider that maybe not everyone is able to afford stores like Barneys or Bergdorf, but I give them points for trying. Rather than judge them for doing the best they can with what they have, I consider that maybe they don't make as much as me, or maybe they're spending their money on something else, like tuition.

 

Buttercup, you're taking my answer the wrong way. 

 

What im saying is that its a good store for Cleveland, and as a shopoholick at a certain income level, I don't expect everyone to have the same tastes as me or find what I like "fashionable".  Nor am I trying to imply that anyone who doesn't shop in a luxury goods store is "less than".  And as I have no dependants, I cannot dictate how anyone spends their hard earned money.

 

oh i prob am confusing you guys sorry...

 

How dare you confuse me, glinda the good from Shaker, with the HBIC!

InDEED!

 

 

How dare you confuse me, glinda the good from Shaker, with the HBIC!

 

 

well so much for begging a thousand pardons. yeesh.

 

wait, will ya just look at that hollywood tulle? -- haute couture queen indeed.

 

i took you for more of an anna wintour witch than a glinda witch tho  :laugh: !

 

 

Oh no - she's definitely a Glinda! :lol:

 

Back to your question - I think a good overall mix of retailers would be best for downtown. For now (meaning the next three to five years) I think the lower to above-moderate range (everything from Old Navy/Urban Outfitters on up to say, Banana/Club Monaco/Hugo Boss) would be the most viable, because honestly I think the Gucci/Fendi/Prada level would struggle. It wouldn't hurt to have a Bloomingdales but I think that would depend on if a lot of the residential proposals come through (Lighthouse Landing, Flats East Bank, Stonebridge build-out, etc.). Once we have enough of a built-in clientele (aka downtown and inner 'hood residents) *then* the upmarket retailers could make a go of it. Of course I absolutely think a Vosges Chocolate boutique needs to open right this minute (my waistline might suffer though).

 

i think the same for downtown dwellers, and i too bet that happens as the buildout continues.

 

still, dont you think downtown needs some unique shops to be more of a draw to others as well as those who will live there?  not upmarket, moderate, but just fresher. thats why i posted those because i think it might be wise to go for some unique to ohio retail too. i think that could be done right now.

 

not to pick on tc, i am always disappointed by the management that picks the retail to go into most malls, they just dont get a good enough mix of tried and true and newer shops. for sure tc can be a much better draw w/o having expensive stores with some unique newer retail.

 

 

 

the problem with retailers is that in general they don't really care about the city itself, they care about making money.  so although i think it makes sense to put a flagship diesel store, h & m, etc. downtown NOW, and that these would cater to existing residents as well as draw a bigger crowd, legacy, beachwood, strongsville, crocker park, etc. are all sure bets in their mind, imo. 

 

so, it may take someone like stark who is a visionary and has a lot of energy, ideas, experience and $$ to make something big happen - lining up multiple new entrants to the market, as well as flagship type stores of existing retailers. 

 

i just don't get the feel that tc management 1) knows how to manage a mall and 2) is positioning their property in the manner that most of us on here want for downtown cleveland. 

 

does anyone understand the economics of retailing and site selection?

 

I'm beginning to think a lot of us don't

well so much for begging a thousand pardons. yeesh.

 

wait, will ya just look at that hollywood tulle? -- haute couture queen indeed.

 

i took you for more of an anna wintour witch than a glinda witch tho  :laugh: !

Hey!  A girl had to work what was readily available, OK!  Get of my freakin' back already!  LOL

 

Personally, I'm more Diana Vreeland, than Anna Wintour.  My staff only runs and hides when I'm losing my caffeine buzz and I see papers on desks and files that aren't filed.  I hate a messy office!!!  Or they take pictures of me without my knowledge!  That's a "no-no".  Other than that, I'm a total angel of a Boss.

 

i just don't get the feel that tc management 1) knows how to manage a mall and 2) is positioning their property in the manner that most of us on here want for downtown cleveland. 

 

Exactly then need to bring in Simon Malls!

 

InDEED!

 

 

Oh dear.....I'm not sure if what part of a "before and after" extreme makeover show, thats gone bad, you're apart of...but you really need to rid yourself of the heavy Issey Miyake/Galiano-ish wrap, the Anna Sui faux Viking headdress and the Bishop Don Juan crunk-cane.  You also might want to change your makeup ...Its, ummmm....how should I say this, so wet-n-wild! Invest in a mid priced line like Bobbi Brown.  Ask your mirror, seriously.

 

It's all so 15 minutes ago - You have no style or sense of fashion, no friends and a hateful mirror....call a stylist already?! 

 

Smooches,

 

Glinda!

Screw Mexx.  Good luck getting TJ Maxx, first.

"Oh dear.....I'm not sure if what part of a "before and after" extreme makeover show, thats gone bad,"

 

Hmm, would you look at that, there's a little button on my screen - it says ... something about "BAN"? Oooh, and another one next to it says "DELETE THIS ACCOUNT". :evil:

Music please... "I've got the power! It's gettin', it's gettin', it's gettin' kinda hectic!"   :banger:

"Oh dear.....I'm not sure if what part of a "before and after" extreme makeover show, thats gone bad,"

 

Hmm, would you look at that, there's a little button on my screen - it says ... something about "BAN"? Oooh, and another one next to it says "DELETE THIS ACCOUNT". :evil:

 

DAMN....See the HBIC don't play fair!  She hates me for my beauty!

"Ah, but nobody ever said life was fair, Tina. I'm bigger and I'm faster. I will always beat you."

 

Screw Mexx.  Good luck getting TJ Maxx, first.

 

ignoring the typical cleveland bash that's a good point. get t.j. maxx in tc. a store like that is a perfect fit so why not? except instead of t.j. maxx make it filene's or better yet daffy's or loehmans. same thing, just a little more unique and more of a pull. maybe like pope says we all don't know that much about the economics of retailing, but it's not exactly brain surgery. tc could do a lot better job.

 

Again, if you think it's a "Cleveland bash," then you must be taking the ColDay Persona a little too much lately.  Let me rephrase it for you:

 

"Good luck for ANY TJ Maxx to open up in ANY downtown in Ohio."

 

Satisfied?

I suppose there's no chance in hell the redevelopment will be pedestrian-oriented?

 

West 65th rezoned Change will allow for a shopping center to be built

Thursday, December 14, 2006

By David Plata

West Side Sun News

 

A redevelopment of a stretch of West 65th Street in the Stockyards area, possibly including construction of a grocery store, is a step closer.

 

City Council on Monday rezoned the west side of the street, extending from Storer Avenue to the north and including the Kmart Plaza and Big Lots Plaza, from general retail to shopping center district.

 

The rezoning grandfathers in McMahan's Wrecking, an auto junkyard at the northwest corner of West 65th and Storer.

 

Other businesses on West 65th, including the White Elephant used furniture store, Travel Rite and Benson Trucking, have sold their properties or moved out.

 

Councilman Matt Zone, in whose ward the area is located, said a study to be completed by February or March will make recommendations on how to redevelop the area.

 

"What the study is recommending is that that location be developed commercially," said Zone, D-17.

 

The plan could include construction of a grocery store, he said.

 

Coming sometime soon, Zone said, Kmart is planning a $3 million interior and exterior upgrading of its store.

 

Zone said a developer is in discussion with the city about plans for the area, possibly including financial aid, but he declined to identify the firm as premature.

 

The study is being done by the Stockyard Redevelopment Organization, Westside Industrial Retention and Expansion Network and the Kent State University Urban Design Center.

 

Zone and Al Brazynetz, director of the Stockyard group, have said the study estimates it would cost at least $8.5 million to assemble a 15-acre site for a redevelopment project.

 

The city school district at one time also sought to assemble a 15-acre site, including the junkyard, for construction of a new high school.

 

However, school officials later scrapped that idea, and instead plan to build a new school further north, off West 65th and Clark Avenue.

"Shopping Center District"???  That doesn't sound too promising!

Well here's some really really crappy news.  Super cool place.

 

Folk-music store is closing its doors after three decades

Saturday, December 16, 2006

Michael O'Malley

Plain Dealer Reporter

 

Goose Acres, a folk-music store known to pickers and fiddlers across the nation, will close at the end of the month, ending three decades of building, repairing and selling acoustic instruments on Cleveland's East Side.

 

[link to remainder of article unknown]

Smakula has also sold his house in Little Italy and bought an old farmhouse on 2½ acres in Mantua. He said he has plenty of room for a big tent and a small hootenanny.

 

I wonder the likelihood of "hootenanny" being in print say over the next 12 years?

Don't shoot me...Crocker Park is adding:

 

BCBG

Puma

Smith & Hawken

 

It's got to be a good thing that Stark is creating these relationships, though. Hopefully that help bring unique stores downtown when it happens.

ooh, a puma store, welcome to the 90's cleveland.

ooh, a puma store, welcome to the 90's cleveland.

 

Actually the "new" puma stores are hot!  I love their products.  I'm just not going to the west side to get them though.

Smith & Hawken and Sephora opened before xmas.  I don't think they've started building the Puma or BCBG stores.

 

The Gold's Gym/Chipotle/something else building is getting close to completion. 

Tower City Retail Update

 

Bad News:  The GAP is closing at the end of January.  Anyone who wants to get a crack at the racks and shelves can show up on January 28.

 

Good News: Brooks Brothers has signed a 3 year renewal on their space and have no intentions of vacating TC (and have heard nothing to the contrary from corporate).  Apparently the negotiations have been going on for the past few months, but were completed in December.  From the mouth of one of the regular salespeople: "year over year sales have been growing and last year was one of the best ones."

 

I'm happy about the BB news, but confused on the GAP.  I feel like there is momentum growing downtown, but we can't keep losing basic retail.  This was one of the few places to buy a t-shirt or pair of socks after Dillards left. 

 

There was also a good mixed crowd on a Sunday afternoon, a little thin in some areas, but much more representative of the mix tower city needs to draw on a consistent basis.

 

On a negative note, 2 food buses from the suburbs pulled up to serve lunches on public sqaure.  THIS HAS TO STOP.  This is not the proper location - there wasn't even a covered area for the people taking the food to eat in the rain.  The suburb churches need to partner with cleveland proper churches to provide these meals and services, and a warm place to socialize and eat - not the middle of public square in january.  oh, and the fact that each of these people then went on to panhandle the people leaving TC.  this current set up is not good for business and not good for these people.  imo. 

I don't understand The Gap.  They use black rappers in their commercials to try and get some kind of perceived street cred or coolness...but they always seem to close stores in malls with a predominantly black clientele.  They also create a hostile environment in those stores by posting security guards at the entrances.  Back in the early 90's they closed Randall Park, Euclid Sq, Severance and Rolling Acres all around the same time, and people I knew that worked there rumored that they closed because they were too black....even though Randall did more business than some of the other area "white" stores.  I hated going in the one at RPM because the security guards would lurk over you.  Anyway, I have a friend that works for Gap Inc now, and the only division that is doing well is Old Navy...Gap and Banana's sales are tanking.

trust me, every single retailer that has ever closed it doors in Tower City is because of economics, usual reasons cited:

 

1) Absurdly high rent

2) lackluster sales figures

3) Shrinkage (the industry term for theft) Tower city j. crew had about 3x more shrinkage than beachwood j. crew

I was afraid of this. I was in TC this week and went to the Gap and the whole place was nearly empty. It was quite sad. I was hoping they were just redecorating, lol ;)

 

Here's a story from today's Beacon the Gap's problems: http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/business/16452646.htm.

 

Here's a theory based on nothing besides my imagination: What if they vacated TC after talking with Stark about getting involved in Pesht? That might be wishful thinking.

 

The thing that makes me nervous is, if there is 3X the theft in TC, will there be 3X the theft in any downtown retail, thus dooming any sustainability? Or what's the issue?

The thing that makes me nervous is, if there is 3X the theft in TC, will there be 3X the theft in any downtown retail, thus dooming any sustainability? Or what's the issue?

 

I can vouch for the outrageous amount of shrinkage at TC from when I worked at Record Town.  Combating it was a full time occupation.  Nothing could be left on the floor for a minute without security tags and shucks. 

 

I wish I knew the answer.

On a negative note, 2 food buses from the suburbs pulled up to serve lunches on public sqaure.  THIS HAS TO STOP.  This is not the proper location - there wasn't even a covered area for the people taking the food to eat in the rain.  The suburb churches need to partner with cleveland proper churches to provide these meals and services, and a warm place to socialize and eat - not the middle of public square in january.  oh, and the fact that each of these people then went on to panhandle the people leaving TC.  this current set up is not good for business and not good for these people.

 

I'm not sure I understand how feeding hungry people is a bad thing.  If I'm not mistaken, the city belongs to "street people" as much as it does to you.  Would you prefer they get fed somewhere you don't have to look at them?   

 

Do you have evidence this practice negatively impacts business?  It doesn't seem to be the case in other cities where the homeless are fed in PUBLIC areas.

On a negative note, 2 food buses from the suburbs pulled up to serve lunches on public sqaure.  THIS HAS TO STOP.  This is not the proper location - there wasn't even a covered area for the people taking the food to eat in the rain.   The suburb churches need to partner with cleveland proper churches to provide these meals and services, and a warm place to socialize and eat - not the middle of public square in january.  oh, and the fact that each of these people then went on to panhandle the people leaving TC.  this current set up is not good for business and not good for these people.

 

I'm not sure I understand how feeding hungry people is a bad thing.  If I'm not mistaken, the city belongs to "street people" as much as it does to you.  Would you prefer they get fed somewhere you don't have to look at them?   

 

Do you have evidence this practice negatively impacts business?  It doesn't seem to be the case in other cities where the homeless are fed in PUBLIC areas.

 

Feeding hungry people, helping the less fortunate, being a good neighbor are all good things in my book, and probably don't happen enough.  these can and certainly should happen anywhere there are people in need. 

 

but, when it has gotten to the point that suburban church goers think they are solving the homeless problem or the war on hunger by sending a van to the center of the city to hand out meals in the cold rain and then watch the gathered "street people" eat in the cold rain, i think the "i live in the suburbs but i helped a hungry person"  routine has missed the mark.  I think the "street people" would much prefer to be bused to crocker park for an afternoon of lounging in a a new place, where they could enjoy there meals on the promenade a few blocks from the helpful churches. 

 

i am only advocating for additional coordination of what i consider to be well intentioned efforts to help the less fortunate.   i don't really care where these activities take place, but it would be nice if there was heat, maybe a roof in winter? maybe i am asking too much, afterall, the "street people" probably like to eat in the cold and rain.  there should be a warm place to eat, sit, socialize.  maybe a shower facility?  maybe some healthcare screening?  giving someone a sandwich and a cup of coffee in the rain doesn't begin to SOLVE this issue.   I strongly advocate that this region needs to re-start innovating and solving problems and not sticking with the status quo.

 

and although it is a public area, i have NEVER walked 5 blocks in any major city in the US, Asia, Europe or Australia where I have been asked for money or followed as many times as I am after these mass food drop offs.  I'm a believer in the city, i live downtown, and i participated in organized programs that are addressing hunger and homelessness.  Now again, this is a chicken/egg problem.  If there were thousands of people on the street this afternoon at 4pm, then this effect is obviously diluted.  But, it doesn't change my experience. 

My thoughts exactly urbanlife.  Dan, how does having several hundred people begging for money in front of a mall not effect business in some way?  Use some common sense.  Also, they don't pay taxes so it really doesn't belong to them.

My thoughts exactly urbanlife.  Dan, how does having several hundred people begging for money in front of a mall not effect business in some way?  Use some common sense.  Also, they don't pay taxes so it really doesn't belong to them.

 

I agree with most of what you said, but that last sentence is just a misunderstanding of what public property is.  Perhaps you were being tongue in cheek?

Dan, how does having several hundred people begging for money in front of a mall not effect business in some way?  Use some common sense.

 

Then you should have no problem backing this up with numbers showing lost receipts due specifically to beggars. 

 

Here in DC, I know of at least three downtown parks (all within 3 blocks of the White House) where the vans pull up to feed the homeless.  The adjancent offices, storefronts, and fancy restaurants all seem to be doing just fine.

 

I encounter beggars in Georgetown on a daily basis.  They haven't seemed to prevent the stores from staying in business.

 

I also wasn't aware that paying taxes was a prerequisite for being treated like a human being.  I hope you don't have children.

Then you should have no problem backing this up with numbers showing lost receipts due specifically to beggars. 

 

Of course there are no numbers to back this up.  That doesn't make it untrue, however.  Businesses seldom have hard data on why people aren't coming to their store.  That's the problem with trying to measure what isn't there.  Still, it adversely effects the shopping experience downtown in a way that their suburban competitors don't have to worry about.

 

Here in DC, I know of at least three downtown parks (all within 3 blocks of the White House) where the vans pull up to feed the homeless.  The adjancent offices, storefronts, and fancy restaurants all seem to be doing just fine.

 

I encounter beggars in Georgetown on a daily basis.  They haven't seemed to prevent the stores from staying in business.

 

They are very different markets, of course.  Someday I hope downtown Cleveland is strong enough that more people will come down despite the panhandlers, but in a downtown that is just barely hanging on, this is one more deterent to keep those with options from coming downtown to live, work, and spend money.  Every negative encounter that a customer, worker, or resident has with a panhandler is just one more straw on the back of their willingness to spend time downtown.

Wow Dan, how odd for you to make such a sweeping generalization of something somebody said.  Of course the homeless being fed on public square has a negative impact on the surrounding areas.  We had numerous accounts on here before of people giving examples of being accosted or chased etc. saying they would not go downtown again, or walk across public square again……  You are again using bad comparisons.  It’s a bit different when there are tons of other people around diluting the impact of the homeless people.  If the majority of the people on the sidewalks in G-town were homeless people (as is often the case on public square) I guarantee it would have a negative impact on other people walking the streets and the businesses.  Yes in D.C. there are typically a lot of people on the sidewalks, and these people dilute the focus and impact.  There are certain times in D.C. when I have been harassed (screamed at, sworn at, called a stupid white boy etc….) by certain homeless people and it certainly has affected my use of certain business when given the choice of something on the other side of the street.  But this is typically when there are not other people to dilute their focus.  I have read numerous hotel reviews for Cleveland that have stated the bad feeling the tourist had felt of Cleveland based on the fact that there was such a large concentration of homeless people on public square that made it threatening for them to want to walk outside or explore anything. (Granted these are probably suburban people that have no tolerance of anything, I’m pretty certain that if they came to town again they will opt to stay in Westlake)  I’ve had people that I brought to Cleveland to show them around take notice of this, as well as all the trash often left behind, I would just try to direct the focus away long enough for them to see that there was more to downtown…  but again its about the concentration in what should be a prominent spot.  So yes it certainly would deter a person from wanting to explore the square and surrounding area etc…..    I couldn’t agree more on the issue of feeding on Public Square and needing a better coordinated effort.  There are better places to do this in any direction that should have less of an impact, and a better coordinated effort just makes sense.  Anyway, well said X and Urbanlife, at least I didn’t see it as you were being some kind of anti-homeless elitist.

1.  Use paragraphs, willyboy.

 

2.  What's really the cause, and what's really the effect?  Don't you agree that if Cleveland had more people on the sidewalks, that the homeless wouldn't be such an issue?  You seem to say as much.  After all, the homeless don't seem to keep people from going to the WHD on the weekends....

 

To take a couple isolated, anecdotal incidents, and extrapolate them to a principle of microeconomics, seems to be stretching things quite a bit.

 

 

alright, enough of the homeless speak, please refer to the title of the thread.

 

If you want to discuss the Cleveland homeless, go start a "Cleveland Homeless" thread.

I  think the Giant Eagle in Westown open also. I drove by today and noticed the parking lot was no longer empty.

This article makes it sound as if the folks doing the leasing at TowerCity may finally be realizing who their target demographic is, which is great news!

 

 

Crains Cleveland Business

 

Tower City gap to be filled by Forever 21

 

By JOHN BOOTH

 

10:53 am, January 29, 2007

 

The Gap store at Tower City Center will close when its lease expires at the end of January and will be replaced in spring by the first Cleveland-area location of clothing chain Forever 21.

 

The Los Angeles-based retailer will take possession of the 6,600-square-foot space Feb. 1.

 

Underground Station, another national chain clothing store, also is set for a spring opening in the former Limited space.

I wonder if those rumored "big plans" were used to lure those stores to the mall.

i think there would hafta some other element.....though this is great news.....c'mon macy's

^ I hate to be a bad sport, but to me Macy's has about as much retailing sex appeal as the lingerie aisle at K-Mart.

 

It's good to see they're filling up the stores quickly, though. I suppose Forever 21 might be intriguing, but now that I have a "real job," I find myself spending more money at mid-tier stores like Express, Gap, J.Crew, T.J. Maxx on Chagrin ;)

 

edit: To clarify: I'm talking about the standard suburban version of Macy's, not the flagship.

well macy's downtown in a classy building has more sex appeal than an empty building.

great news that they filled the spaces right away. forever21 is a good fit. why the hell fc never got that shop in there earlier is beyond me. i never heard of underground station before, but after looking it up i agree with the guv:  http://www.undergroundstation.com/index.aspx?source=RANG2006

 

too bad about the gap as a company. i went in there two days ago after a long time away and bought a pair of new jeans. even tho i bought something, i couldnt believe how badly that store has lost its mojo. even the employees were sullen.

Underground Station looks like they'll carry some of what Grind carries on W.25th, just south of Lorain.  That shop is very nice...cool space, nice windows and displays and a good selection of clothing & shoes.  The three times I've been in there, the clerks/owners have been very nice and helpful as well.  They seemed sincerely interested in what I liked and what I wanted that wasn't there.