yea. I forget all the names. city breaks, peach fuzz (?), the red velvet beard thing, Jack's closet (?) maybe so.ething else.

Jesus that’s majority of the shops that opened. Maybe it’s time they shift their focus to more recognizable brands again.


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5 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said:

Jesus that’s majority of the shops that opened. Maybe it’s time they shift their focus to more recognizable brands again.


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Probably why they shifted from recognizable brands in the first place is because no one is going downtown to shop at those brands, they were going to Crocker Park/Legacy/Beachwood mall/Great Northern etc. Tower City had potential in the 90s because you could just take the rapid in to shop and then back. With RTA ridership at an all time low with no signs of improvement or expansion into the suburbs, and the car-oriented suburbanites preferring free parking life style centers, trying to keep Tower City as retail is completely short sighted. There are not enough residents downtown to even support a Geiger's and the suburbanite shoppers want nothing to do with downtown except for a ball game. Tower City needs to pivot to something completely different. 

Beachwood Place has shifted to alternative brands in multiple spaces, and it didn't seem there were many vacancies over the holidays. Maybe Tower City's piecemeal approach wasn't the right one - lesson learned - and the Avenue should be shuttered until a legitimate master plan is devised.

 

Jesus, it's like the lakefront discussions. Burke. RTA. Flats. Warehouse Disrict. City Population. We have had the same exact conversations since this website's inception. The 90s really were a tipping point in many ways, and the Ratners gave us a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. I think that failure has had very longterm effects, especially with retailer investment.

 

2 stores to fill vacant Best Buy at Steelyard Commons

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio - The vacant Best Buy at Cleveland’s Steelyard Commons shopping center is in the works to be occupied by two separate stores.

The 30,000-square-foot space at 3506 Steelyard Dr. that was previously occupied by the consumer electronics giant is set for new life after more than a decade of vacancy as both a Ross Dress for Less and a Hibbett Sports are slated to move in.

 

 

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2022/12/2-stores-to-fill-vacant-best-buy-at-steelyard-commons.html

CVS on East 9th is permanently closed. Sign on the door directing people to the one a few hundred yards away on Euclid. I’m surprised the two co-existed for so long given they were so close to each other. To be honest, I’d rather they’d kept this one open, as it was always well-presented. The one on Euclid is a total mess. I hope they shift the management over. 

On 12/5/2022 at 7:13 PM, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

Probably why they shifted from recognizable brands in the first place is because no one is going downtown to shop at those brands, they were going to Crocker Park/Legacy/Beachwood mall/Great Northern etc. Tower City had potential in the 90s because you could just take the rapid in to shop and then back. With RTA ridership at an all time low with no signs of improvement or expansion into the suburbs, and the car-oriented suburbanites preferring free parking life style centers, trying to keep Tower City as retail is completely short sighted. There are not enough residents downtown to even support a Geiger's and the suburbanite shoppers want nothing to do with downtown except for a ball game. Tower City needs to pivot to something completely different. 

 

I'd go to Tower City at lunchtime in the late 90s even driving from Maple Heights.   Randall Mall was closer but TC was nicer for multiple reasons.   They validated parking if you spent more than like $25.   

23 hours ago, roman totale XVII said:

CVS on East 9th is permanently closed. Sign on the door directing people to the one a few hundred yards away on Euclid. I’m surprised the two co-existed for so long given they were so close to each other. To be honest, I’d rather they’d kept this one open, as it was always well-presented. The one on Euclid is a total mess. I hope they shift the management over. 

I was just coming on here to post this. Not great for all those who work at lower East 9th... I wish we could get a different option like RiteAid or Walgreens to compliment CVS instead of having two so close together. 

On 12/5/2022 at 1:36 PM, MyPhoneDead said:

Jesus that’s majority of the shops that opened. Maybe it’s time they shift their focus to more recognizable brands again.

 

Nope.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2023/01/tower-city-announces-4-news-businesses-for-the-downtown-mall.html

Obviously Bedrock has its grand master plan for Tower City involving some very significant reconstruction, but we know at best this is many years away. I cannot understand why they (seemingly) allowed the last of the national retailers to leave (Footlocker, Bath and Body Works...)  there is basically nothing left. And these retailers will probably not consider opening elsewhere downtown at the street level. It just seems like they are letting the place totally empty out. I hope that I am proven wrong but I still am not sure what their short term vision is?

24 minutes ago, mrclifton88 said:

Obviously Bedrock has its grand master plan for Tower City involving some very significant reconstruction, but we know at best this is many years away. I cannot understand why they (seemingly) allowed the last of the national retailers to leave (Footlocker, Bath and Body Works...)  there is basically nothing left. And these retailers will probably not consider opening elsewhere downtown at the street level. It just seems like they are letting the place totally empty out. I hope that I am proven wrong but I still am not sure what their short term vision is?

 

I hope I'm way off. But the new retailers in TC sorta remind me of the shops you saw at Rolling Acres in Akron in the 90's -  just before they closed. 

I was having a conversation with someone and they mentioned that the influx of local retailers and the exodus of national retailers are intertwined with each other. The local retailers are tied to some sort of grant that Bedrock received that had a requirement of sorts to have local retailers there. The exodus of national retailers is apparently tied to Bedrock wanting to increase their rent to offset the loss of charging cheaper rent to the local retailers. I don't know how accurate that is though.

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4 hours ago, mrclifton88 said:

Obviously Bedrock has its grand master plan for Tower City involving some very significant reconstruction, but we know at best this is many years away. I cannot understand why they (seemingly) allowed the last of the national retailers to leave (Footlocker, Bath and Body Works...)  there is basically nothing left. And these retailers will probably not consider opening elsewhere downtown at the street level. It just seems like they are letting the place totally empty out. I hope that I am proven wrong but I still am not sure what their short term vision is?

 

Foot Locker is pretty much done with B&M nationally. 

It is very hard to be optimistic about these new tenants who offer nothing new but  worn out doomed concepts. These malls are dead in the water. Even Beachwood Place is just recycling more urban shoe stores and hip hop clothing.  Not a way to attract monied shoppers.

6 hours ago, surfohio said:

 

I hope I'm way off. But the new retailers in TC sorta remind me of the shops you saw at Rolling Acres in Akron in the 90's -  just before they closed. 

In my opinion the last of what was left of Tower City that opened in 1990 died around 2014 or 2015.

 

We know it's codified that the access to the building will never be closed off because of access to the train station. Not to mention the other assets the mall connects.

 

These new stores seem to be them trying to see what will and will not work without dumping too much money into the place.

 

Wish they could figure it out though. It just seems like a missed opportunity with the place sitting almost idle like it is.

Edited January 19, 20232 yr by Mov2Ohio
Grammar

On 1/18/2023 at 6:56 PM, Wtd7575 said:

It is very hard to be optimistic about these new tenants who offer nothing new but  worn out doomed concepts. These malls are dead in the water. Even Beachwood Place is just recycling more urban shoe stores and hip hop clothing.  Not a way to attract monied shoppers.

 

“I hope I'm way off. But the new retailers in TC sorta remind me of the shops you saw at Rolling Acres in Akron in the 90's -  just before they closed.”

 

Also, generally when you see names that end with “z”, instead of an “s” you know thats where things are going.  

Yeah, I don't think these are the kinds of shops most posters on urbanohio.com visit. But at least someone is taking a chance in Tower City/Avenue since conventional retailers have long abandoned ship.

 

I honestly think there is no true master plan, and Bedrock is as befuddled as the Ratners were resentful. Sure the collapsing economy isnt helping, but the mall was dogs**t even when economic conditions were stronger. We've seen plenty of plans for Blockchain Tech Hub, Vision for the Valley, partnership with Chain Reaction, etc, and it's 2023 and the mall is still dogs**t.

 

It's so hard being bearish.

Unfortunately more bad news to add to this pile. Champs Sports is closing. I heard it from a cashier at Rainbow. She's noticed the trend of national chains moving out and is worried they are next. In her words it feels "like Randall Mall." I'm not sure I share her pessimism, but I do agree with a lot of the posters here, Tower City likely needs a few big national anchor tenants to survive. Especially since the arcades are already holding down the small local shops market. 

On 1/22/2023 at 11:34 AM, Ethan said:

Unfortunately more bad news to add to this pile. Champs Sports is closing. I heard it from a cashier at Rainbow. She's noticed the trend of national chains moving out and is worried they are next. In her words it feels "like Randall Mall." I'm not sure I share her pessimism, but I do agree with a lot of the posters here, Tower City likely needs a few big national anchor tenants to survive. Especially since the arcades are already holding down the small local shops market. 

 

Enclosed malls are on the way out, even moreso than brick and mortar in general, because they cannot control loitering gracefully.   They inevitably either overreact or underreact.   The former gives them political and perception problems, potentially chases away customers, and costs money.   The latter makes potential customers uncomfortable and reduces traffic.

 

Edited January 23, 20232 yr by E Rocc

If the surrounding area has enough discretionary income and population loitering doesn't matter. If the income starts going only to basic essentials or the population isn't high enough nearby to reach the required metrics that's when vacancy increases. Or someone opens another mall. Remember most malls are almost all discretionary with very little in basic essentials in 2023 as compared to the '80s when they had Radio Shack, Sears and pharmacies in them that you needed to go to.

35 minutes ago, GCrites80s said:

If the surrounding area has enough discretionary income and population loitering doesn't matter. If the income starts going only to basic essentials or the population isn't high enough nearby to reach the required metrics that's when vacancy increases. Or someone opens another mall. Remember most malls are almost all discretionary with very little in basic essentials in 2023 as compared to the '80s when they had Radio Shack, Sears and pharmacies in them that you needed to go to.

 

Are they on the decline because the essentials moved out, or did the essentials move out because they were on the decline?

They shifted to big box to get more space in a single story floor and have more control over their hours (i.e. longer hours). Also to have more locations than we could reasonably have malls. Goes back to having more places where you can sell basic essentials than discretionary. 

 

Circleville can't support a mall on it's own because the population is too small. But it can support a Wal-Mart.

Edited January 23, 20232 yr by GCrites80s

I assume retailers in a mall also have to pay costs associated with upkeep and security of the common areas.

That's true in strip malls as well and obviously if the store owns it's own real estate (as Wal-Mart often does) they are paying for it directly. 

The decline of malls also follows from the decline of middle class spending power.  The "middle class" is going to Walmart and Target instead of boutiques in the mall.

8 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

Enclosed malls are on the way out, even moreso than brick and mortar in general, because they cannot control loitering gracefully.   They inevitably either overreact or underreact.   The former gives them political and perception problems, potentially chases away customers, and costs money.   The latter makes potential customers uncomfortable and reduces traffic.

 

lol please, kids have been loitering around malls since the 80s. These kids now loitering in malls are rushing into stores shoplifting and getting into fights disturbing people in the food court. None of use did that growing up. But we sure did loiter, we just didn't bother other people

 

...Of the 595 responses, 298 were for thefts. In fact, according to Boardman police, in each of the past seven years, responses to the Boardman Walmart have exceeded 500 every year, with a high of 738 in 2019.

“It is disturbing that we spend a lot of police resources in Boardman at the Walmart store,” said Werth. “And I would say it’s kind of out of balance with our responses to the other commercial stores.”

 

To prove his point, after Walmart’s 595, Boardman police last year responded to the Southern Park Mall 509 times and to Target 72 times. The new Meijer opened in May, and since then has required 180 responses, while the Walmart over the same time had 397 responses...

 

...

“From what I’ve seen and talked with other chiefs throughout the state, it’s not unheard of for a Walmart,” said Werth. “So I wouldn’t say it’s out of the ordinary.”

Bazetta Township Police Chief Chris Herlinger knows all about dealing with Walmart. When Herlinger took over three years ago, calls to the township’s Walmart were taxing his 10-person department. “We had a lot of calls there,” said Herlinger. “Primarily shoplifters and theft, but you also have fights and disturbances.”

 

 

https://www.wkbn.com/news/27-investigates/boardman-walmart-most-police-responses-of-any-single-area-location/

9 hours ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

lol please, kids have been loitering around malls since the 80s. These kids now loitering in malls are rushing into stores shoplifting and getting into fights disturbing people in the food court. None of use did that growing up. But we sure did loiter, we just didn't bother other people

 

It depended on the mall back then, and most don't now but enough do to be a problem, and they proceed to blend in with the non-malignant loiterers after the fact.   It produces a perception of danger, and that deters shoppers.

9 hours ago, GCrites80s said:

 

...Of the 595 responses, 298 were for thefts. In fact, according to Boardman police, in each of the past seven years, responses to the Boardman Walmart have exceeded 500 every year, with a high of 738 in 2019.

“It is disturbing that we spend a lot of police resources in Boardman at the Walmart store,” said Werth. “And I would say it’s kind of out of balance with our responses to the other commercial stores.”

 

To prove his point, after Walmart’s 595, Boardman police last year responded to the Southern Park Mall 509 times and to Target 72 times. The new Meijer opened in May, and since then has required 180 responses, while the Walmart over the same time had 397 responses...

 

...

“From what I’ve seen and talked with other chiefs throughout the state, it’s not unheard of for a Walmart,” said Werth. “So I wouldn’t say it’s out of the ordinary.”

Bazetta Township Police Chief Chris Herlinger knows all about dealing with Walmart. When Herlinger took over three years ago, calls to the township’s Walmart were taxing his 10-person department. “We had a lot of calls there,” said Herlinger. “Primarily shoplifters and theft, but you also have fights and disturbances.”

 

 

https://www.wkbn.com/news/27-investigates/boardman-walmart-most-police-responses-of-any-single-area-location/

 

How many of these happened late at night or overnight?   

6 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

How many of these happened late at night or overnight?   

Probably not a lot. Wal Mart stays wild all day. 

1 hour ago, KFM44107 said:

Probably not a lot. Wal Mart stays wild all day. 

 

The Bedford one was way worse overnight.  The main reason it closed was theft and rowdiness.   The corporation usually sugar coats this, this time they did not.

The Severance WalMart was no picnic either. Neither was the IHOP at certain hours.

 

The Baker Square there never had any incidents. People just don't get angry at bakeries. Cigar shops too.

This is all very informative. Malls didn’t die because of online retail they died because people loiter more violently than they did 40 years ago. 

On 1/24/2023 at 11:34 AM, bumsquare said:

This is all very informative. Malls didn’t die because of online retail they died because people loiter more violently than they did 40 years ago. 

 

You're saying enclosed malls weren't declining before online retail became a major factor?

Does it bother any of us that this is only happening in America?   Elsewhere in the world retail is still thriving in many ways.   Malls still exist, sometimes in multiple locations within blocks of each other.   Retail in city centers is still bustling and thriving.   

 

What is it about America that is making us not want to leave our houses and spend time together to buy things needed in life?  

I think what sets the US apart is our unique emphasis on the individual rather than the group. Also we are at our core a transactional people. 

 

I have lived in other countries and traveled the world for decades and one of the first things l noticed is how much people  elsewhere prefer socializing outside with the neighborhood rather than spending time alone or in small groups. Americans value privacy while most of the rest of the world values community. 

 

As a transactional people we seem to favor stripping down the act of purchasing something to its simplest form which today is buying it online while we are alone. In other countries people seem to value the face to face negotiation/relationship more than actually owning the thing. We like have more toys. They like experiencing the purchase more than owning the item.

 

So l think it comes down to culture. There's a reason why we live a more material existence while at the same time having a greater percentage of lonely/alienated people. Just one more reason why l feel at home much more in the rest of the world than l do here. Look no further than city life. They are out and about creating lively cities while we are more likely to be isolated in our homes in front of some screen.

I think people in other countries (and non-dominant ethnic groups in the U.S.) have a greater sense of how their individual spending behaviors affect the businesses and built environment around them. Also they take more pride in what their local economy produces. In Italy if you drive around in a Lamborghini or Ferrari people come up to you and say "Isn't this a cool car?" with the implication that somehow all of Italy was involved in the car unlike in the U.S. even with locally-made cars where it's "You have a cool car" like you made it yourself or something. Few people in Cincinnati see an IROC-Z and say "Oh we made that" unlike Gold Star, Busken, Star Wars toys or LaRosa's even though the factory was right in the middle of town. So we have food and drink pride but don't think about other things going on around town. Now in Toledo I see more Jeep pride and around Columbus there is some Honda pride but not very strong. The Jeep Pride is bigger.

 

The downside of that is nationalism and territorialism though. We could use more territorialism with retail though. Americans still take enormous pride in their food and drink establishments ("You're drinking Budweiser?" "We are NOT eating McDonald's!") but won't extend the same to stores.

5 hours ago, Cleburger said:

Does it bother any of us that this is only happening in America?   Elsewhere in the world retail is still thriving in many ways.   Malls still exist, sometimes in multiple locations within blocks of each other.   Retail in city centers is still bustling and thriving.   

 

What is it about America that is making us not want to leave our houses and spend time together to buy things needed in life?  

 

Personally, I think it may be in our DNA.

 

We're more individualistic than collective minded and this goes back to colonial days.   European farmers lived in villages and traveled out to their fields.   Our pioneers lived on their fields, far away from any neighbors.

 

I've said before there may be a genetic predisposition to being partial to "elbow room".   This was not popular, here.  But if many of the people who came from Europe did so because of a dislike of crowding, and those people are the ones who headed for the frontiers, that could explain it.

5 hours ago, Cleburger said:

Does it bother any of us that this is only happening in America?   Elsewhere in the world retail is still thriving in many ways.   Malls still exist, sometimes in multiple locations within blocks of each other.   Retail in city centers is still bustling and thriving.   

 

What is it about America that is making us not want to leave our houses and spend time together to buy things needed in life?  

Safety/security could be one of the reasons. Do malls elsewhere in the world have packs of rowdy teens loitering?    

11 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said:

Safety/security could be one of the reasons. Do malls elsewhere in the world have packs of rowdy teens loitering?    

100% yes. 

1 hour ago, E Rocc said:

 

Personally, I think it may be in our DNA.

 

We're more individualistic than collective minded and this goes back to colonial days.   European farmers lived in villages and traveled out to their fields.   Our pioneers lived on their fields, far away from any neighbors.

 

I've said before there may be a genetic predisposition to being partial to "elbow room".   This was not popular, here.  But if many of the people who came from Europe did so because of a dislike of crowding, and those people are the ones who headed for the frontiers, that could explain it.

 

Because the land was given to them for free? Our cultural anomalies can usually be explained by government subsidy actions. Also a lot of Europe was not a good place to live during various historical periods due to royal or other government actions and poverty. 

1 hour ago, LibertyBlvd said:

Safety/security could be one of the reasons. Do malls elsewhere in the world have packs of rowdy teens loitering?    

I literally left for the airport 5 minutes before this attack in 2007 in Manilla.  My flight almost didn't leave because the Federales were shutting down everything in the country.  

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7052194.stm

 

I still go to malls to this day.   Walked around 2 in Manama, Bahrain earlier this morning.

 

Are Americans with all their guns and big pickup trucks really afraid of some loud African American teenagers?    If so we are truly a sad society. 

19 hours ago, Cleburger said:

Are Americans with all their guns and big pickup trucks really afraid of some loud African American teenagers?    If so we are truly a sad society. 

 

Americans outside of your caricature also don't seem to be going to malls as much anymore, either. Also, no one is "afraid" of anything. They just don't feel any obligation to deal with any level of inconvenience at all, ever, when they don't have to. That probably has more to do with TC being a mess than caricatures of rural whites being "afraid" of black teens. There are black teens in other shopping centers, including ones that are successful. Not Cleveland, I know, but Easton has a pretty solid mix of customers, including rural/suburban whites and urban blacks, and seems to be doing just fine without outbreaks of violence in any direction. TC is not a "In the Heat of the Night" race-war flashpoint, it's just a dated shopping center in the wrong location with a bad mix of stores. I would imagine many of the failing malls nationwide are. Not sure what is so surprising that people don't want to go shopping in a place far away from their house with the same mix of stores as every other that looks like it's from 30 years ago (or more) when they can just, you know, not. 

And yes, I mean it when I say that TC is in a bad location. Because it is for most of the 1.2M people in Cuyahoga County, not to mention the surrounding counties, many of whom are not "big truck/gun lovin'" good old boys that haunt this forum's thoughts all day. 

If Forest City could do Tower City all over again, they wouldn't.

lets not ignore the organized flash mobs of robbers that come in and take stuff (adults) or wreck the place for a goof (teens). essential staples at drug stores are ground zero for that lately, which is sad.

 

meanwhile i just read the small handful of very wealthy took two thirds of all the usa wealth generated recently, leaving a third for everyone else.

 

so i guess next the flash mobs will be hitting the 99 cent stores.

 

anyhoo -- i wonder if adding interactive stuff to tc would help? i dk, like a dave&busters, escape room, axe throwing bar or something like that. and a big, classic all day cafe wouldn't hurt either, like they have in old euro malls. probably that stuff would be too isolated in there now, but if bedrock does come up with a better retail remix i think stuff like that could be a part of it.

 

 

Tower City needs foot traffic flowing through it.

 

RTA has fewer riders than it did in 1990, fewer people catch the train and walk through the "Walkway to Gateway" eliminating the need to go to Tower City. 

 

There are fewer office workers and now no department stores vs 1990 as well. 

 

There also has not been a real renovation or even a real marketing strategy for the mall in over 20 years, on top of the downtown area only recently having a critical mass of residents to shop there, just in time for all the stores those residents would want to shop at to close.

 

I feel like if there were apartment buildings along Huron, the right mix of retail, (pharmacies, local hardware stores, restaurants, banks, some apparel shops, and maybe some of these other cinteractive concepts), tou could build a good base that could attract some of the more well known retailers.

 

As it stands if you have no reason to shop at any of these stores, don't live or work in TC, don't need to grab cash out the ATM, or travel to Huron Road (where there is nothing to see or do) from Public Square, catch the train, there's no reason to actually go inside Tower City. If there was, a reason, even a CVS or Walgreens you may stop there, then stop at another store or two, generating more business.

 

I go there about once a month on lunch, but I've usually already bought my lunch from some place on Euclid and eat at the tables in the food court.

On 1/26/2023 at 5:04 PM, GCrites80s said:

 

Because the land was given to them for free? Our cultural anomalies can usually be explained by government subsidy actions. Also a lot of Europe was not a good place to live during various historical periods due to royal or other government actions and poverty. 

 

Financially free, perhaps, but it took some effort to get there.

I'm not sure what the answer is for reviving Tower City.  There is an adjacent casino, but apparently the patrons don't bother to venture outside of it for dining, shopping or entertainment.  The riverside development is still many years away from happening, so for the foreseeable future it looks like it will be status quo for Tower City.

well one answer for sure is keep converting and building apt buildings and bringing in more people in the immediate area downtown.

 

then you get more small retail like drug stores and stuff for immediate livability — and eventually bigger retail will sort itself out and come along.

 

unfortunately with all the retail brick and mortar struggles these days im afraid the residential bar is much higher than we used to think to make that happen.

4 minutes ago, mrnyc said:

well one answer for sure is keep converting and building apt buildings and bringing in more people in the immediate area downtown.

 

then you get more small retail like drug stores and stuff for immediate livability — and eventually bigger retail will sort itself out and come along.

 

unfortunately with all the retail brick and mortar struggles these days im afraid the residential bar is much higher than we used to think to make that happen.

 

Not to argue - because I 100% agree with you in premise... but we saw the downtown population surge from 2014-2019, and I feel like new retail never really came along in a significant way. Heinen's has been the only success story and I've heard they're struggling to a degree now because their revenue was so heavily subsidized by the lunch crowd in the past.