25 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

You're old school downtown and predate common delivery.  I'm suspecting you're the exception to the rule.

I Don’t disagree. It could be a blizzard outside and I’ll still walk to get carry out or groceries. 

27 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

You're old school downtown and predate common delivery.  I'm suspecting you're the exception to the rule.

I don't use delivery services because of the added premium to use them. The prices are always higher than the actual business prices PLUS you have to pay for the "fees". I don't care about convenience that much. Couple that with food being cold/potentially eaten or touched before it arrives and I am turned off by it.  

1 minute ago, MyPhoneDead said:

I don't use delivery services because of the added premium to use them. The prices are always higher than the actual business prices PLUS you have to pay for the "fees". I don't care about convenience that much. Couple that with food being cold/potentially eaten or touched before it arrives and I am turned off by it.  

Same here except in rare instances of need (like I'm sick and need Ramen). 

 

In fact, I can't believe all these people paying these prices, then complaining about inflation.   Get off your couch and go get something and $hit is much cheaper!  

 

As an aside, my son drove for Door Dash a couple summers ago when home from OSU.   He delivered the same $100 McDonalds order the same woman in Euclid FIVE nights one week.    I guess it was easier for her to push that same button on her phone than go out to the store and get healthy food for her kids.  

12 minutes ago, Enginerd said:

This makes sense to me. The vast majority of businesses are small businesses. And the (slight) majority of employment is by small businesses. If it’s hard to get them grants and loans, should we really blame the business owners themselves? That sounds like a permitting/process problem.

 

When you travel to your favorite, vibrant city, are you looking around and thinking how lovely it is to see all these chain stores? Or is the array of unique and locally owned shops that charm you?

Fully agree, I'd rather have unique than chains. That said, if I do think of pretty much any of truly vibrant city/downtown they also have chains. I think the point is that they are a healthy part of any retail ecosystem. We shouldn't be seeking out chains at the expense of local retailers, but we shouldn't be driving them away either, and their absence generally isn't a good sign. 

21 minutes ago, Ethan said:

Fully agree, I'd rather have unique than chains. That said, if I do think of pretty much any of truly vibrant city/downtown they also have chains. I think the point is that they are a healthy part of any retail ecosystem. We shouldn't be seeking out chains at the expense of local retailers, but we shouldn't be driving them away either, and their absence generally isn't a good sign. 

I'm going to be honest about my travel tendencies, and for this example I will use Chicago. A lot of times when I travel, and I travel to Chicago a lot due to family, I look for stores and experiences that I can't get at home. When it comes to food, I tend to go to local shops because I like eating the signature foods that the city I am in is known for so I go to Portillo's for an Italian Beef (better than a Philly Cheesesteak to me but that's a different argument). 

 

BUT when it comes to traditional retail (Clothing etc.), I tend to visit areas in Chicago that contain experiences and stores that I can't get in Cleveland. Since I am there for only a couple of days I gravitate towards national retailers so I visit the Fashion Outlets mall by O'Hare, going to the Magnificent Mile, which is an experience in itself, etc. A lot of people I know do the same thing, people I know who visited Atlanta from Cleveland, including me go to Lenox because of the name and aura of it. So I won't say that people travel to cities and look for local shops over national retailers because the name recognition alone is a draw. 

 

I really feel that Dan Gilbert has dropped the ball at Tower City, he easily could have turned the bottom floor into a space for outlet stores due to its larger floorplates. Even the Prospect storefronts could be offered to retailers for their outlets by offering them free or subsidized rents, also close the street to cars and allow only buses and bikes. When I visited the fashion outlets mall in Chicago, it contained non high end stores on the first floor with majority being national retailers, and high end on the second, I felt that Cleveland could mimic it in tower city or even the Galleria. If Tower City doesn't want to be the outlet mall, the Galleria which has struggled FAR WORSE should be giving away storefronts.

 

The problem is I feel, PERSONALLY that a lot storefront owners feel that they don't have to "lower their standards" by subsidizing rents, to me they feel if Chicago etc. can do it why can't we. I view it as a similar mentality of RTA leadership saying "Cleveland deserves world class heavy rail" in the 80s when they purchased the current Red Line cars. In reality Cleveland had rapidly declining ridership and a fragmented system and was far behind their peer cities in transit, but due to pride and nostalgia of what Cleveland used to be they made an unnecessary and stubborn decision. They didn't live in reality, they couldn't swallow their pride that Cleveland isn't on the level of those cities. 

Not new, but new to me: Clevo Books has moved from the 5th Street Arcade to a larger space at 1026 Euclid.  They specialize in English translations of popular foreign fiction and non-fiction authors.  A nice selection of stuff. 

 

I bought an older Umberto Eco I could not find in Wash DC. 🙂

On 10/9/2024 at 4:32 PM, Zagapi said:

 

I live downtown about 150 feet from the Heinen's. 

 

The issue with the Heinen's downtown is that its so expensive and has significantly less options than a comparable store. If I could do all of my grocery shopping there I absolutely would. I would get one of those little carts and stop by whenever I needed. Most folks in the neighborhood probably would as well.

 

For me it's relegated to beer/wine runs or grabbing something real quick on my way to someone's house. Also, their prepared foods have always disappointed so I stopped trying.

 

 

 

those little carts are called granny carts. de rigueur for city livin. out here in ny world i just walked down to the garden center a ways from us and brought back a spruce tree for the balcony and some other plants with ours. we actually have two, a light cart and a heavy duty one. 👍

 

anyway, that's a shame the cool heinens is so expensive, but then again they always have been -- historically they were like the whole foods of cleveland aka whole paycheck. 😂

5 hours ago, mrnyc said:

 

 

those little carts are called granny carts. de rigueur for city livin. out here in ny world i just walked down to the garden center a ways from us and brought back a spruce tree for the balcony and some other plants with ours. we actually have two, a light cart and a heavy duty one. 👍

 

anyway, that's a shame the cool heinens is so expensive, but then again they always have been -- historically they were like the whole foods of cleveland aka whole paycheck. 😂

 

Before the downtown location Heinens was not only suburban but almost entirely the outer suburbs.   They had a higher quality of product and a higher level of service.   They were intentionally more expensive.

I believe they still load your groceries into your car.  

On 10/9/2024 at 4:32 PM, Zagapi said:

 

I live downtown about 150 feet from the Heinen's. 

 

The issue with the Heinen's downtown is that its so expensive and has significantly less options than a comparable store. If I could do all of my grocery shopping there I absolutely would. I would get one of those little carts and stop by whenever I needed. Most folks in the neighborhood probably would as well.

 

For me it's relegated to beer/wine runs or grabbing something real quick on my way to someone's house. Also, their prepared foods have always disappointed so I stopped trying.

 

 

Just as a counterpoint, but when I lived downtown I enjoyed the smaller footprint and less “options.” They had 90% of what I needed with less of the distractions of larger stores. I was happy to pay the higher prices for the convenience (but this was before covid and the grocery inflation we now have).

 

I don’t think this is how Americans are used to shopping, though. I knew plenty of people downtown who’d get in the car to drive elsewhere for groceries.

1 hour ago, LibertyBlvd said:

I believe they still load your groceries into your car.  

They do (at least in Rocky River, where I occasionally shop)

Not everyone shops for groceries based on cost or budget, though I understand those who don't are probably in the minority.

 

Heinen's has a lovely, small store here in downtown Chagrin Falls - similar to the Hudson store and downtown - under 30K sf. Smaller assortment but pretty much everything we need - especially fresh food. Its costs are equal to all Heinen's stores. 

 

Easy to shop. Nice atmosphere. Great quality. Fair prices. No loyalty cards to worry about for fake discounts like at the "cheap" (in more ways than one) competitors.

 

In. Out. Done. 5 min walk home. It's made our life so much easier since it opened in 2017. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

. 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2024Oct 22 by eyehrtfood

4 hours ago, mu2010 said:

 

Just as a counterpoint, but when I lived downtown I enjoyed the smaller footprint and less “options.” They had 90% of what I needed with less of the distractions of larger stores. I was happy to pay the higher prices for the convenience (but this was before covid and the grocery inflation we now have).

 

I don’t think this is how Americans are used to shopping, though. I knew plenty of people downtown who’d get in the car to drive elsewhere for groceries.

Yeah - I’ve shopped at the downtown Heinens since it opened. Personally, I’m fine with going in there pretty much every day and just picking up what I need right then. I know that’s a very urban SOP and not in common with the vast majority of the country with fewer, bigger shopping excursions to the Costco or WallyWorld. It is more expensive than the suburban Heinens’, with somewhere between 10 & 50 cents per item over what they charge elsewhere. I fully recognize that I’m fortunate enough not to be bothered by that and it’s still, for me, way preferable than having to jump in the car to Dave’s on Chester & 66th every time I need something. 

I too enjoy the limited selection and how it helps decision-making. We recently went to, for the first time in years, a GE Market District (the one one Strongsville) we were both 100% intimidated and exhausted by the amount of choice, most of which, of course, you simply don’t need. 
 

EDIT: Back in the day, I spent many years of my career working supplier-side to big grocery-led retailers. In any given product category the 80/20 rule absolutely applies and, more often than not, it’s more like 90/10. A typical, large format, grocery store is going to have probably 50k, or more, individual stock items, most of which generate peanuts in the scheme of things. This is why most new products and line extensions fail. 

We usually shop at a suburban Heinen's, but were downtown recently and did our weekly shopping trip at the downtown Heinen's while we were there.  I did not notice the prices being any different than at any other Heinen's.

 

To double check this, I priced out a basket of goods at a suburban Heinen's (I picked Willoughby at random) and then at the downtown Heinen's and every single item was exactly the same price.  Also, coincidentally, every item I chose also was in stock at both stores, although there were some extra size variations of some of them available at the Willoughby Heinen's.

 

I was very happy with the shopping experience downtown and think many of the complaints I've seen are inaccurate and unwarranted.

5 hours ago, jam40jeff said:

We usually shop at a suburban Heinen's, but were downtown recently and did our weekly shopping trip at the downtown Heinen's while we were there.  I did not notice the prices being any different than at any other Heinen's.

 

To double check this, I priced out a basket of goods at a suburban Heinen's (I picked Willoughby at random) and then at the downtown Heinen's and every single item was exactly the same price.  Also, coincidentally, every item I chose also was in stock at both stores, although there were some extra size variations of some of them available at the Willoughby Heinen's.

 

I was very happy with the shopping experience downtown and think many of the complaints I've seen are inaccurate and unwarranted.

 

Overall I agree with you - but there have been times when I tried to do grocery shopping at lunch and ended up needing to finish up shopping elsewhere later that day. 

back in the days great aunt grace would only shop at heinan’s.

 

she loved the service and the snobbiness.

 

her sister in law, who was my grandmother, would roll her eyes. 😂

15 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said:

I believe they still load your groceries into your car.  

 

They do if you do curbside.   :)

Then again, so does Giant Eagle.   The new store at 615 and Tyler has a built in loading area just for that.

10 hours ago, eyehrtfood said:

Easy to shop. Nice atmosphere. Great quality. Fair prices. No loyalty cards to worry about for fake discounts like at the "cheap" (in more ways than one) competitors.

 

Yeah, that's the thing.   I always refused to do that at GE when I was still paying cash and their prices if you don't are close to Heinen's.

Edited October 22, 2024Oct 22 by E Rocc

13 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

Yeah, that's the thing.   I always refused to do that at GE when I was still paying cash and their prices if you don't are close to Heinen's.

 

I find Giant Eagle's prices to be about the same as Heinen's, even with discounts included.

 

Dave's, Aldi, and Marc's are certainly cheaper, though.

 

Give me Heinen's any day, though, and not just because it's local.  The produce is fresher, the service is better, the atmosphere is nicer.  It's just a great grocery store.

Edited October 23, 2024Oct 23 by jam40jeff

On 10/21/2024 at 8:38 PM, eyehrtfood said:

Not everyone shops for groceries based on cost or budget, though I understand those who don't are probably in the minority.

 

Heinen's has a lovely, small store here in downtown Chagrin Falls - similar to the Hudson store and downtown - under 30K sf. Smaller assortment but pretty much everything we need - especially fresh food. Its costs are equal to all Heinen's stores. 

 

Easy to shop. Nice atmosphere. Great quality. Fair prices. No loyalty cards to worry about for fake discounts like at the "cheap" (in more ways than one) competitors.

 

In. Out. Done. 5 min walk home. It's made our life so much easier since it opened in 2017. 

 

 

5 min walk, that's incredible I'm jelly. imo it's hard to overstate how much having a grocery/decent bodega within walking distance improves one's quality of life. really wish the corner stores were better quality in Cleveland it'd make such a difference.

 

 

On 10/21/2024 at 8:38 PM, eyehrtfood said:

No loyalty cards to worry about for fake discounts

 

To be fair, Heinens does have a loyalty card. As a downtown worker I'll get a bunch of bogo offers or x% off items I purchase on the regular. 

 

I get the bigger point though, you don't need the card to get regular discounts when things are on sale.

This could be a massive nothing burger but I was doing my annual "did IKEA announce a Cleveland store" deep dive and I happened to notice that the Cleve Scene article on IKEA Cleveland was updated 4 days ago, but the actual content of the article seemingly is not updated past 2015. Any insiders hear any rumblings recently?

Once again I find myself clinging to hope lol...

^ I have experienced that quite often when doing an internet search.  Articles that appear to have been updated recently are in fact several years old.  Perhaps there is a techie out there who can explain why that happens.

2 hours ago, Geowizical said:

This could be a massive nothing burger but I was doing my annual "did IKEA announce a Cleveland store" deep dive and I happened to notice that the Cleve Scene article on IKEA Cleveland was updated 4 days ago, but the actual content of the article seemingly is not updated past 2015. Any insiders hear any rumblings recently?

Once again I find myself clinging to hope lol...

According to unnamed off the record sources who may not actually exist in reality believe IKEA has a back up option to buy the Brook Park land when Jimmy drops it and either locks arms with the community they profess to love and build the lakefront dome - or- they move it to C-bus as they really want.

Edited November 4, 2024Nov 4 by Willo

3 hours ago, Geowizical said:

This could be a massive nothing burger but I was doing my annual "did IKEA announce a Cleveland store" deep dive and I happened to notice that the Cleve Scene article on IKEA Cleveland was updated 4 days ago, but the actual content of the article seemingly is not updated past 2015. Any insiders hear any rumblings recently?

Once again I find myself clinging to hope lol...

This is the update unfortunately: Update: Well, maybe not. Multiple reports out there today relate the news that IKEA has officially announced a store in Columbus in 2017. What that means for a potential Clevo location — not great news if you ask us — remains to be seen.

In April 2023, IKEA indicated they'd be building 8 new full size stores in the US over the "next 3 years" - and not a single one has been announced, 18 months later. Not sure what's up with that lack of any publicly announced movement. 

4 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said:

This is the update unfortunately: Update: Well, maybe not. Multiple reports out there today relate the news that IKEA has officially announced a store in Columbus in 2017. What that means for a potential Clevo location — not great news if you ask us — remains to be seen.

I believe that update quote from the article is the 2015 update, as the article was originally published in 2014. I could be wrong though, but idk why they would make an update in 2024 using the date 2017.

paradise galleria —

 

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DBM2dHopLSt/?igsh=bmMxbjBud3o0dHA1

Want to discuss tariffs and the global economy - there's either a thread for it, or anyone is welcome to make one.

it’s happening —

440 kicks in playhouse square — 👍

 

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCFq-aKuaUK/?igsh=Y2U1NHhveGtvNDd2

2 hours ago, mrnyc said:

it’s happening —

440 kicks in playhouse square — 👍

 

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCFq-aKuaUK/?igsh=Y2U1NHhveGtvNDd2

Might be a dumb question, but do you usually see buy sell trades in the heart of other bigger cities’ downtowns? Glad to see a clothing retail open though.

1 hour ago, JB said:

Might be a dumb question, but do you usually see buy sell trades in the heart of other bigger cities’ downtowns? Glad to see a clothing retail open though.

Even Milwaukee has national brand clothing in the heart of their downtown. We have to settle for out of the box retailers only (not that it's bad, but the lack of every day national brad retail is bad)

2 hours ago, JB said:

Might be a dumb question, but do you usually see buy sell trades in the heart of other bigger cities’ downtowns? Glad to see a clothing retail open though.

This is a huge thing now, name brand buy and sell, think picky places like Buffalo Exchange. Even Goodwill prices are insane these days, selling used clothes from Zara more than the actual brand new item. Younger kids like the environmental aspect, and buying used is cooler than ever before.

1 hour ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

Even Milwaukee has national brand clothing in the heart of their downtown. We have to settle for out of the box retailers only (not that it's bad, but the lack of every day national brad retail is bad)

From what I have heard and read, those national retailers were propped up at one point by subsidies from the city to try and save the dying Grand Avenue Mall and its remaining department store. They had street entrances and mall interior ones. Once The Boston Store (Carson Pirie Scott sister) department store closed, a lot of the national retailers closed, and yes Kohls has somewhat recently opened in that space, which is great, but Kohls is WI based which I see kinda like Cincinnati keeping a Downtown Macy's for a while because it was a local HQ.

 

The Grand Avenue mall still has a TJMaxx, Walgreens, and Potbelly as national retailers. Cleveland has a CVS, Potbelly and Rainbow (slight step below TJMaxx?). I think its a pretty close race.

 

Indy was winning the race for a while because Simon Malls HQ propped up Circle Center Mall. That place is now dead AF as well. It's not only a Cleveland problem.

5 hours ago, JB said:

Might be a dumb question, but do you usually see buy sell trades in the heart of other bigger cities’ downtowns? Glad to see a clothing retail open though.

 

not a dumb question. sneakers are a hot commodity these days, just like thrifting. literally every young people oriented neighborhood around ny here has a sneaker shop or three like this.

 

its as great a small business/downtown retail reviver start as any.

4 hours ago, mrnyc said:

 

not a dumb question. sneakers are a hot commodity these days, just like thrifting. literally every young people oriented neighborhood around ny here has a sneaker shop or three like this.

 

its as great a small business/downtown retail reviver start as any.

It is good to see as such stores are hot in most large cities especially with yutes who pay with surprising large amounts of cash. These stores typically require security at the door with buzz-in limited access as jewelry stores and designer eyewear stores now have to do. Otherwise the store will be cleaned out with one flash mob of yutes. Hope they have roll down steel shutters covering the windows overnight. This store should succeed given the product markup and current demand and hopefully leads to others as PHSq admirably continues to try everything possible to activate the district.

21 hours ago, Willo said:

It is good to see as such stores are hot in most large cities especially with yutes who pay with surprising large amounts of cash. These stores typically require security at the door with buzz-in limited access as jewelry stores and designer eyewear stores now have to do. Otherwise the store will be cleaned out with one flash mob of yutes. Hope they have roll down steel shutters covering the windows overnight. This store should succeed given the product markup and current demand and hopefully leads to others as PHSq admirably continues to try everything possible to activate the district.

 

its prone to that problem because of the popular product for sure, but its harder to pull off sneaker store raids as they only have one display shoe out, so the flash mobbers would have to bum rush into the storage and root around awhile, making it take longer and a more serious crime assuming they would have to strong arm employees, so thats a lot harder to rob than the usual err, umm, grab-n-go. they probably need a bank vault for storage tho. 🙀

 

 

On 11/19/2024 at 11:27 PM, metrocity said:

This is a huge thing now, name brand buy and sell, think picky places like Buffalo Exchange. Even Goodwill prices are insane these days, selling used clothes from Zara more than the actual brand new item. Younger kids like the environmental aspect, and buying used is cooler than ever before.

 

you got that right. i’ve never seen so many nyc thrift stores as there are now lately. and don’t take it from my old arse, we had two 19yr olds from dayton stay with us a week this summer and all they did was thrift shop. not even one touristy thing and not interested in like current soho shopping. they even found a local thrift store chain i had never heard of. wore us out.  😂 

Honestly if the storefront owners are subsidizing the rents to make these affordable this may be what's needed to jumpstart retail downtown. Opening local shops throughout downtown and getting people used to shopping downtown would bode well for attracting national retailers. Once they see the success they'd be more inclined to take a chance. I do think that is something that isn't thought about in the retail discussion. People aren't used to shopping downtown, it isn't their first thought, so when a store opens they may think of the suburban option first before downtown. We have to start local to start the reversal in mindset.

Was there any measurement taken of the damage done by shutting Euclid Avenue down for the Health Line project?  I think that lengthy effort killed what was left of "old" retail and drove away shoppers who have yet to return.  In retrospect, it seems to me the downtown portion of the  project (PS to E18th) should have been on a 24/7 schedule - get it done FAST.

hingetown women owned wellness center — 🎉

 

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCpucd2pR7x/?igsh=OXI3Z3cxNTJudzNw

78st studios market — 🎉

 

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DC-T-F-Jzua/?igsh=MXB2cW5tNG5qcXpoaw==

On 11/20/2024 at 12:37 AM, metrocity said:

From what I have heard and read, those national retailers were propped up at one point by subsidies from the city to try and save the dying Grand Avenue Mall and its remaining department store. They had street entrances and mall interior ones. Once The Boston Store (Carson Pirie Scott sister) department store closed, a lot of the national retailers closed, and yes Kohls has somewhat recently opened in that space, which is great, but Kohls is WI based which I see kinda like Cincinnati keeping a Downtown Macy's for a while because it was a local HQ.

 

The Grand Avenue mall still has a TJMaxx, Walgreens, and Potbelly as national retailers. Cleveland has a CVS, Potbelly and Rainbow (slight step below TJMaxx?). I think its a pretty close race.

 

Indy was winning the race for a while because Simon Malls HQ propped up Circle Center Mall. That place is now dead AF as well. It's not only a Cleveland problem.

Detroit has some pretty hot commodity brands downtown. Not sure if Dan Gilbert is subsidizing it all.

from november --

 

 

 

Part 3: Retail needed to support downtown Cleveland's growth

 

Published: Nov. 13, 2024

more:

https://www.cleveland19.com/video/2024/11/14/part-3-retail-needed-support-downtown-clevelands-growth/

I was in Tower City Saturday for the first time in years and good lord is it depressing. On the other hand, I walked past the museum of illusions place and it looked to be pretty busy.

Wine & Design in Tremont (next to St. Theodosius) is closing the brick and mortar store after 15 years.

9 hours ago, MayDay said:

Wine & Design in Tremont (next to St. Theodosius) is closing the brick and mortar store after 15 years.

Shh*t, that’s terrible news. I’ve known Greg and Dan for 20 years.

On 1/28/2025 at 3:28 PM, JB said:

I was in Tower City Saturday for the first time in years and good lord is it depressing. On the other hand, I walked past the museum of illusions place and it looked to be pretty busy.

 

It is disheartening that even billionaire Dan Gilbert can’t even get things going…at least not on a timeline that suits my lifespan. 

 

At this point I would just go opposite world and make K-Mart the anchor and license a bunch of dead or near-death franchises like Arthur Treachers, Radio Shack, Rax, Hooters etc. Make it like a ghostly retail visit into yesteryear. 

Unfortunately this might be a case of the riverfront development residential/entertainment portion needs to be built before any hope for well-patronized businesses and a "pulse" in Tower City. That's my hope at least.

Or just make it the train station again. Bunch of foot traffic that way.