March 22, 200916 yr I have been saying that bringing outlets to downtown would be a great idea for quite awhile now. I'm glad someone else thinks it's a good idea too! You and me both. I don't necessarily want them on Euclid. I think on Superior around the arts district would be great and help CSU grow. HOWEVER, bring them downtown will be younger people and those bargain hunters down there. People out in the 'burbs are cutting back and folks are going DRIVING OUT to places they can find a bargain. Bringing them downtown wont hurt traditional retailers in metro cleveland since there are none yet I worry when population and mindset shifts to wanting more shopping downtown will this hurt core businesses.
March 23, 200916 yr I think this outlet idea is ideal because I think they could be considered the first stepping stone to getting mainstream retail back into the center of the city. If national non-outlet stores see that retail does in fact work here they may be willing to set up shop. I think Euclid Avenue would be great for this. I went to the film festival on sunday and there was a gentleman selling old images of Cleveland, and I am telling you, you have to see this guys photos. UNBELIEVABLE. He gets them from CSU/Cleveland Press collection, check him out next saturday or sunday next to the fountains at TC... Anyways, a lot of the activity on Euclid pre-1970 seems to have been created by the discount stores like Woolworth's, W.T. Grant, etc, with Halle's, May's, etc, mixed in between. The outlets idea could be considered a step towards that eventual retail mix. I'm 100% behind this.
March 23, 200916 yr I think this outlet idea is ideal because I think they could be considered the first stepping stone to getting mainstream retail back into the center of the city. If national non-outlet stores see that retail does in fact work here they may be willing to set up shop. I think Euclid Avenue would be great for this. I went to the film festival on sunday and there was a gentleman selling old images of Cleveland, and I am telling you, you have to see this guys photos. UNBELIEVABLE. He gets them from CSU/Cleveland Press collection, check him out next saturday or sunday next to the fountains at TC... Anyways, a lot of the activity on Euclid pre-1970 seems to have been created by the discount stores like Woolworth's, W.T. Grant, etc, with Halle's, May's, etc, mixed in between. The outlets idea could be considered a step towards that eventual retail mix. I'm 100% behind this. I agree. I also think it's a great way to bring UNIQUE retail into a market that's more or less over saturated with the same sort of thing everywhere. Bringing outlets into downtown will bring retail that will appeal to a more upscale clientele that is already attracted to urban living, but it will also draw people in from around the region for its uniqueness. I think this whole retail plan is a great idea, and I really hope it all moves forward together. I also like how they hinted at a sense of team to bring this to fruition. While competition is certainly necessary and healthy, cooperation is sometimes just as important.
March 23, 200916 yr My only concern is that the outlets may brand downtown as "cheap" and inhibit development of higher end retailers. What do those more informed in retailing think of this? Is this a non issue?
March 23, 200916 yr Apart from the concerns expressed by MTS and Hootenany, which I think are legit, I like this idea. I would prefer to condense the outlet stuff into as compact a district as possible. It doesn't sound like the ideal theme for Euclid Avenue, but if its the only way to get businesses into the arcades then so be it. And I'd still rather fully explore traditional approaches used in other cities before trying something like this.
March 23, 200916 yr If these stores were to happen downtown, there really would be no reason for me to go shop in the suburbs. I really only buy my suits downtown...this would be good enough/more than enough to keep up with the rest of my wardrobe. Hopefully, some of these stores will be set up by the time I move back home next year. (fingers crossed!)
March 23, 200916 yr I'm not saying that this guy with retail plan for Euclid stole my idea, but it is consistent with my vision for Euclid, which has been posted on the forum several times including the old post below: For the Stretch of Euclid I think destinational discount retailers would be appropriate to draw on the fact that there is potential in available large-volume space, and the Euclid corridor will probably help draw on a college student population. So maybe retailers like Filene's Basement, Loehman's, or things like that. H&M would have been really nice for Euclid, because it has a reputation for offering cheap clothing that will draw people from considerable distances, but unfortunetly one openned in Crocker Park and one will soon open at Beachwood, so it makes little sense to believe it will draw people from throughout the region to shop downtown. If Cleveland could eventually support super luxury brands, then I think the Arcade would be a great venue. It is absolutely beautiful, perfect size, great location.
March 23, 200916 yr I'm not saying that this guy with retail plan for Euclid stole my idea, but it is consistent with my vision for Euclid, which has been posted on the forum several times including the old post below: For the Stretch of Euclid I think destinational discount retailers would be appropriate to draw on the fact that there is potential in available large-volume space, and the Euclid corridor will probably help draw on a college student population. So maybe retailers like Filene's Basement, Loehman's, or things like that. H&M would have been really nice for Euclid, because it has a reputation for offering cheap clothing that will draw people from considerable distances, but unfortunetly one openned in Crocker Park and one will soon open at Beachwood, so it makes little sense to believe it will draw people from throughout the region to shop downtown. If Cleveland could eventually support super luxury brands, then I think the Arcade would be a great venue. It is absolutely beautiful, perfect size, great location. I'd sue!
March 23, 200916 yr Anyway, on the topic of Clifton Web moving to Avon Lake: I don't know if it will work. The greeting card/gift shops at that location in the Landings never did well to begin with and it was always changing ownership. It doesn't come close to the amount of foot traffic or automobile traffic as Clifton Blvd. True, there is a vacancy now in Avon Lake, so I guess we'll see. I also hope the owner will change some of his merchandise/concept, because I don't think rainbow flags will fly too in Avon Lake either. What a shame for Edgewater to loose an independant shop.
March 23, 200916 yr Where you been, Vulpster? Good to here from you. The thing that concerns me about the plan is that it sounds like they are eager to boot the few remaining local shops already in the area. They use the term "short term tenants" to discredit them, but I don't think many of the shops are short term. In fact they are probably more committed to the future of Euclid than the retailers looking for a cheap space for an outlet mall.
March 23, 200916 yr I was wondering how everyone on UO would react to the outlet story. I actually really like it too! I would assume that people in the inner burbs would be so much more likely to go downtown than to drive to Aurora or Lodi. If there were a JCrew outlet downtown, I would never drive to Beachwood mall again..... I can dream..... Well, I guess I better get back to the conference. Salt Lake City is really strange..... Pictures will appear next week :)
March 23, 200916 yr Anyway, on the topic of Clifton Web moving to Avon Lake: I don't know if it will work. The greeting card/gift shops at that location in the Landings never did well to begin with and it was always changing ownership. It doesn't come close to the amount of foot traffic or automobile traffic as Clifton Blvd. True, there is a vacancy now in Avon Lake, so I guess we'll see. I also hope the owner will change some of his merchandise/concept, because I don't think rainbow flags will fly too in Avon Lake either. What a shame for Edgewater to loose an independant shop. Not only that, but apparently the shop next to Clifton Web is closing, as well as Its It is now gone! Funny about the rainbow flags.... Yes he will have to do a major "rethinking" of his retail concept.
March 23, 200916 yr I was wondering how everyone on UO would react to the outlet story. I actually really like it too! I would assume that people in the inner burbs would be so much more likely to go downtown than to drive to Aurora or Lodi. If there were a JCrew outlet downtown, I would never drive to Beachwood mall again..... I can dream..... Well, I guess I better get back to the conference. Salt Lake City is really strange..... Pictures will appear next week :) I think they would come. I think the area needs to be well defined and compact. CSU students would shop there. In philly they've done a good job of mixing outlet stores in next to full service stores. My problem is this needs to be contained and stores fronts need to be shoulder to shoulder and not hurt the main brands opportunity to build a store downtown. I don't want the city to be labeled by the brand managers as not good enough for a full service store. If these were lined up on Payne from 13 to inner belt that would be great and hitting the perfect target. Then use the sales figures, internet tracking and zip code shipping information (along with other composite data tracking) to help get the Full Service flagship store built on Euclid.
March 23, 200916 yr I'd love to see these stores go in on the ground floors of the old warehouses along Superior.
March 23, 200916 yr State Street in Chicago has a lot of discount stores. I would not mind Euclid Ave looking like State St.
March 23, 200916 yr State Street in Chicago has a lot of discount stores. I would not mind Euclid Ave looking like State St. I'm not disagreeing with you, but want to point out that there are regular service stores on State Street, plus the fact that there is Macy's (the flagship Marshall Fields) & Sears there to anchor those stores put's it into a different category, look and feel than what this article states is planned for Cleveland.
March 23, 200916 yr I agree with MTS here, it is significantly different to have something like this in conjunction with anchor stores. What we're talking about is all outlets and no anchors. I don't doubt that those outlets would be patronized, and it's better than what we've got now, but I would hate to see this end up being a substitute or an excuse for the continuing absense of anchor stores. I'm probably being too pessimistic. At least this is a positive plan.
March 23, 200916 yr 1: Crawl 2: Walk 3: Run Outlets (higher-end that is, and well-kempt) make more sense at this time than regular service, and the success of these stores will draw full-service retailers. State Street-type retail mixes don't appear overnight.
March 23, 200916 yr 1: Crawl 2: Walk 3: Run Outlets (higher-end that is, and well-kempt) make more sense at this time than regular service, and the success of these stores will draw full-service retailers. State Street-type retail mixes don't appear overnight. Bingo.
March 23, 200916 yr there are no anchor stores at outlet malls and they do a great business. Yes, but in downtown Chicago, there are REGULAR full service stores along with outlets and discount stores. In Cleveland, where people have all but forgotten how to shop downtown without a car, there are no plans but for the outlets. There needs to be something else to draw shoppers, especially the after 6 PM and on the weekend. Also, saying that the outlets in the exurbs are doing great business means nothing since we have no data on how an "urban" outlet "center" (or congregation of stores) has done. 1: Crawl 2: Walk 3: Run Outlets (higher-end that is, and well-kempt) make more sense at this time than regular service, and the success of these stores will draw full-service retailers. State Street-type retail mixes don't appear overnight. Thats not a gaurantee. Brand managers could think we don't need or can't support a full service store. You'll never see a regular or high end outlet near a high end retail strip. That is my main concern.
March 23, 200916 yr there are no anchor stores at outlet malls and they do a great business. Outlet malls are successful in a tightly defined role. Downtowns involve a host of additional goals. Mainly, we aren't trying to draw 20,000 new residents to Lodi. On the other hand, the right mix of outlets could functionally accomplish the same thing as an anchor store. The trick is providing downtown thru inner-ring residents with a mix of available goods that is comparable to suburban offerings.
March 23, 200916 yr Thats not a gaurantee. Brand managers could think we don't need or can't support a full service store. You'll never see a regular or high end outlet near a high end retail strip. That is my main concern. I understand what you are saying, but I maintain that brand managers already think that we don't need/can't support a full service store. A successful set of outlets could dispel that notion.
March 23, 200916 yr Thats not a gaurantee. Brand managers could think we don't need or can't support a full service store. You'll never see a regular or high end outlet near a high end retail strip. That is my main concern. I understand what you are saying, but I maintain that brand managers already think that we don't need/can't support a full service store. A successful set of outlets could dispel that notion. There's a fine line. Only time will tell.
March 23, 200916 yr ^Well, duh, that's my point. If I could forecast what would happen, I wouldn't be hanging out with you patzers.
March 23, 200916 yr ^Well, duh, that's my point. If I could forecast what would happen, I wouldn't be hanging out with you patzers. Damn Vato! LOL
March 23, 200916 yr What is the second largest tourist attraction in Florida behind Disney? Sawgrass Mills Outlet Mall. I like this idea for downtown.
March 24, 200916 yr Not only that, but apparently the shop next to Clifton Web is closing, as well as Its It is now gone! You mean Flower Child? Say it ain't so! I was afraid about the It's It Deli & Cafe. I've never seen more than five people in there at one time. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 24, 200916 yr My neice and nephew sent this too me. Shocking! Ohio's first. Eh.... Retailers A/X Armani Exchange and Tumi will open their first Ohio stores at Beachwood Place mall Posted by jcho March 24, 2009 12:59PM BEACHWOOD -- Specialty retailers A/X Armani Exchange and Tumi, a travel store, will open their first Ohio stores at Beachwood Place mall this summer. More at http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2009/03/retailers_ax_armani_exchange_a.html
April 2, 200916 yr I got a kick out of this, especially since they will now be closer to Mayday, since I know it was his favorite bookstore.. :lol: :evil: Oh, and when you click on the link there is a picture of the tragic, dangerous mess that it was and crabby owner from when it was on W.25th. Owner of Bookstore on West 25th reopens at Tremont's Zion United Church of Christ Posted by Michael O'Malley/Plain Dealer Reporter April 02, 2009 05:00AM Thomas Ondrey/The Plain Dealer CLEVELAND — Bookseller Mike O'Brien, who operated a storefront shop on West 25th Street for 30 years until hard times shut him down last year, is opening another store in Cleveland's Tremont neighborhood. "In this economy," he said, laughing. "And I'm not even drinking." O'Brien's new space is in the basement of an old school building at Zion United Church of Christ on West 14th Street. More at cleveland.com http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/04/owner_of_bookstore_on_west_25t.html
April 7, 200916 yr Not only that, but apparently the shop next to Clifton Web is closing, as well as Its It is now gone! Funny about the rainbow flags.... Yes he will have to do a major "rethinking" of his retail concept. Are you sure Flower Child is leaving? The sign says, "We are expanding, everything 20% off." It doesn't say they are leaving, but I don't know how they could expand. They can't be taking over the Clifton Web space because I walked by there a few days ago and there are signs in the windows saying Big Fun is opening a west side location in that spot! This is awesome.
April 14, 200916 yr I walked by there a few days ago and there are signs in the windows saying Big Fun is opening a west side location in that spot! This is awesome. I'm surprised no one has commented on this. Am I the only one's who's excited about Big Fun coming to the west side? And on the Flower Child thing, I think the "expansion" reference may have to do with opening another location. I know they opened a Columbus location about a year or so ago.
April 15, 200916 yr Yeah, not sure whats with Flower Child, I had heard it was closing from my relatives that own the Wilsher Building (as well as the Its Its and Clifton Web) Of course they may have been wrong on that. That is some pretty big news about big fun (will add some needed street presence). It was starting to look pretty depressing for some of those buildings, including the Wilsher, with the great storefronts, restaurant space and patio, only has a hat shop now...?
April 15, 200916 yr I totally missed the comment about Big Fun opening there. That's great as it's certainly interesting/different retail, it's just not somewhere I'd regularly go. It's kind of funny to walk through but I don't think I've ever bought anything there.
April 15, 200916 yr I walked by there a few days ago and there are signs in the windows saying Big Fun is opening a west side location in that spot! This is awesome. I'm surprised no one has commented on this. Am I the only one's who's excited about Big Fun coming to the west side? Holy crap! I didn't see this until just now. Big Fun is probably my favorite store in the whole world. I buy Transformers. They inspire me.
April 15, 200916 yr It is pretty cool. Definitely a Cleveland institution. It's too bad that freaking giraffe and his megastores came along.
April 15, 200916 yr Heres a little blurb from the PD about the Clifton Big Fun: Big Fun toy store expanding its retro groove with new West Side location Posted by swalton April 15, 2009 11:30AM Big Fun owner Steve Presser in front of his Cleveland Heights store in 2000. Beginning Friday, May 15, he'll be calling the Cleveland's West Side home, too. West Side fun West Siders have a new reason to smile. Steve Presser, owner of Cleveland Heights' retro toy-store emporium Big Fun, will open a West Side location on Friday, May 15, at 11512 Clifton Blvd., Cleveland. This store will be similar to the Coventry Road original but will focus more on greeting cards and Cleveland-centric items, Presser says. At 2,000 square feet, it will be about two-thirds the size of the Cleveland Heights Big Fun.
April 23, 200916 yr Brooks Brothers to open at Eton Chagrin Boulevard - that's big news for someone like me! I'm a BB afficianado and visit them wherever they exist when I travel. They know me well at our local BB's. So what's everyone's take on this? From what I know about BBs' locations in various metropolitan areas it's very difficult for me to imagine they would keep both Tower City and Beachwood along with the new one. Eaton and BP are in the same general "upscale corridor"; there have been a lot of musical chairs involving shops moving between Shaker Square, Legacy, BP, La Place, Pavilion, Eton, and Landerwood. I can't really see a duplication between BP and Eton. On the other hand, the Tower City store, which I go to most working days, is the last left of its general type downtown (there are really only two serious competitors plus three other semi-serious ones downtown) and I could quite easily see them close that one instead. Any it would be a big loss to downtown were they to close, too. The last really serious competitor to close was Christopher's. But then Kilgour Trout would be a major competitor at Eton. It also seems peculiar to me they'd locate on the strip at Eton rather than inside. At least slightly odd.
April 23, 200916 yr ^I think the first line of your post needs some serious help...I assume you mean Brooks Brothers is opening at Eton? I would be very, very sad if the Tower City location closed.
April 23, 200916 yr Beachwood place to open at Eton Chagrin Boulevard - that's big news for someone like me! I'm a BB afficianado and visit them wherever they exist when I travel. They know me well at our local BB's. Are you talking about Brooks Brothers? Anyway, I have no "take."
April 23, 200916 yr Ive heard from friends who work there the Tower City Location of Brooks Brothers will close at the end of the year
April 23, 200916 yr Re Richmond Town Square - So many closings the past few months - i.g. larger restaurant, place that had real ice cream cones (was it an Arthur Treachers?), place with Indian food, Starbucks, American Greetings, Ritz Camera, that cheap large clothing store that took much of the old Woolworth space, Spencer Gifts, and now another clothing store closing.... I know some of these are nation closings or cutbacks but wow!!! What does anyone think will be next or soon? I'll take a bold, risky stab at it - how about Macy's???
April 23, 200916 yr Re Richmond Town Square - So many closings the past few months - i.g. larger restaurant, place that had real ice cream cones (was it an Arthur Treachers?), place with Indian food, Starbucks, American Greetings, Ritz Camera, that cheap large clothing store that took much of the old Woolworth space, Spencer Gifts, and now another clothing store closing.... I know some of these are nation closings or cutbacks but wow!!! What does anyone think will be next or soon? I'll take a bold, risky stab at it - how about Macy's??? Who shops there? I can honestly say, I don't think I've ever shopped here. Shocking, I know. What is the draw?
April 23, 200916 yr Re Richmond Town Square - So many closings the past few months - i.g. larger restaurant, place that had real ice cream cones (was it an Arthur Treachers?), place with Indian food, Starbucks, American Greetings, Ritz Camera, that cheap large clothing store that took much of the old Woolworth space, Spencer Gifts, and now another clothing store closing.... I know some of these are nation closings or cutbacks but wow!!! What does anyone think will be next or soon? I'll take a bold, risky stab at it - how about Macy's??? I think the mall is going through a perception issue, as the only stores that go in now would be considered "urban". And even the urban clothing stores in that mall are closing. MTS- I very rarely go to that mall, but there's nothing there that would interest your high tastes :). The only reason I would go there was because I had an old friend who worked in the Ritz Camera shop. That store, like others in the mall, recently closed.
April 23, 200916 yr We go there often because my wife favors one of the nails places more than any other and I go to the B & N and many other places - it's still the closest middle-of-the-road, enclosed shopping malls to Cleveland Heights. What I absolutely do not understand is why, with thousands of individuals living and working within two or three miles of Richmond it doesn't do much better! I can't imagine why so many who live in those suburbs would go out so many miles to Great Lakes, or down to Beachwood which has the expensive reputation and doesn't have any of Richmond's particular department stores. At least when we go usually on a weekday evening Richmond has very, very few customers and that includes the department stores. And I'm sure even fewer now with so many closings. They already went through all that some years back and almost reinvented itself, though it fortunately kept the enclosed mall concept. It really should be doing better. No real competition with the little that's left of Euclid Square either.
April 23, 200916 yr The only reason i ever went to richmond mall was when i had to pick up my ex girlfriend who worked at one of the stores about 5 years ago. Im surprised the mall has lasted this long, anyone living in that area is going to go to beachwood mall 5 minutes down the road. My mom still goes there a few times a year because of the deals on dresses, but thats it. She goes in, gets the dresses at macys i think, and then is out again. I really cant see this lasting that much longer honestly.
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