"FYI, they are about to break ground on a GE Market District in Strongsville (where Honey Hut is)"

 

Where is this? I don't really eat ice cream so i don't know where Honey Hut is?

 

I'm frankly surprised at the oversaturation if they go to RR, given that stupid Earth Fare that recently opened there (annoying, only marginally better shopping experience than a regular store - I combed through 3 rotted bok chois before I moved out of the produce section). I would have thought strongsville for their new location. Though the Westlake/old Rego's location would actually be good. I just think River is saturated, with the EF and the proximity to Nature's Bin.

 

 

On Pearl Road, a mile or so south of 82.

thx!

Regarding Allen Edmonds, Free People, etc...Those 2 stores recently made it on to a list I'd compiled of stores NEO doesn't have but should (late night hobby). Not pie in the sky stores - but ones common in top 20 markets which (despite the "shrinking population" shouters) NEO still very much is...  Stores like Tiffany or Container Store or Burberry or IKEA are on the list - and Cleveland is often the largest city in the country without one - with all our peers plus many smaller cities having them.

 

I listed about 30 retailers/restaurants and the top 40 metros in population (NEO ranks about 16th-17th). The average top 40 metro had about 15 of those 30 retailers. The average Top 20 metro had more like 24-25 of those 30 retailers. At the time, Cleveland had NONE of those retailers - and now has 2 of the 30, just announced.

 

All the known CLE problems aside - the metro, as a whole, is hardly small, poor and undesirable. Take away 1MM people and NEO is still as big or bigger than places like Kansas City, Indianapolis, Columbus, etc... - which have many of the key retailers on that list noted above...

 

What's NEO's problem in attracting these retailers - and will the next few years, with so much going on, finally be our time? We have the venues in Beachwood Place, Legacy, Eton, Crocker... Might seem trivial - but retail choices are another quality of life category for the type of young, educated workers we want/need to move here...

Interesting late night hobby (I'm more into watching HGTV late at night and screaming at the TV...no that room is not too small).  Obviously you are more of a shop-a-holic than I am but I can really only think of 5-6 national chains we don't have than I personally would like to see (and shop at) and two of them are department stores (Bloomingdales and Neimans).  For me a Burberrys would also be great.  I could take or leave a Tiffany's and I would definitely never step foot in an IKEA.  Also have no interest in chain restaurants, even highly rated upscale types, as I usually eat at local independents.

Regarding Allen Edmonds, Free People, etc...Those 2 stores recently made it on to a list I'd compiled of stores NEO doesn't have but should (late night hobby). Not pie in the sky stores - but ones common in top 20 markets which (despite the "shrinking population" shouters) NEO still very much is...  Stores like Tiffany or Container Store or Burberry or IKEA are on the list - and Cleveland is often the largest city in the country without one - with all our peers plus many smaller cities having them.

 

I listed about 30 retailers/restaurants and the top 40 metros in population (NEO ranks about 16th-17th). The average top 40 metro had about 15 of those 30 retailers. The average Top 20 metro had more like 24-25 of those 30 retailers. At the time, Cleveland had NONE of those retailers - and now has 2 of the 30, just announced.

 

All the known CLE problems aside - the metro, as a whole, is hardly small, poor and undesirable. Take away 1MM people and NEO is still as big or bigger than places like Kansas City, Indianapolis, Columbus, etc... - which have many of the key retailers on that list noted above...

 

What's NEO's problem in attracting these retailers - and will the next few years, with so much going on, finally be our time? We have the venues in Beachwood Place, Legacy, Eton, Crocker... Might seem trivial - but retail choices are another quality of life category for the type of young, educated workers we want/need to move here...

 

Child you're preaching to the choir.

 

chain restaurants don't do well in the metro area, especially in Cleveland proper where people prefer our home grown restaurants. 

 

In regard to the retail stores, they are like a the pretty girls.  They go hand in hand.  burberry isn't going to open up shope unless escada does.  Escada wont unless MiuMiu does.  Dries van Noten wont open unless Armani does.  And none will come unless Bloomingdales or Neiman Marcus is within a half mile of their door.  That and the fact that Cleveland is first or second in the nation when it comes to online/internet sales, so the product is still reaching NE Ohio.

 

In regard to Venues, although Beachwood Place is our number one regional draw mall, it's a tier2 mall in the.  If this mall were in Atlanta (Lenox), S. Florida (Bal Harbour), Houston (Galleria), Dallas (Galleria), Minnie (MoA), Philadelphia (King of Prussia) or DC (Mazza Gallerie), it would be a joke.  Sort of how us Eastsiders look at Crocker Park.

 

Our best bet is to reinvest in Downtown, it can be successful on several levels.

Interesting late night hobby (I'm more into watching HGTV late at night and screaming at the TV...no that room is not too small).  Obviously you are more of a shop-a-holic than I am but I can really only think of 5-6 national chains we don't have than I personally would like to see (and shop at) and two of them are department stores (Bloomingdales and Neimans).  For me a Burberrys would also be great.  I could take or leave a Tiffany's and I would definitely never step foot in an IKEA.  Also have no interest in chain restaurants, even highly rated upscale types, as I usually eat at local independents.

 

Cleveland is such an awesome foodie city anyway.  I mean look at all the neighborhoods that have some of the best restaurants of all different qualities from all around the world.  Little Italy in itself has more variety than all of Indianapolis and its metro area.  I live in Boardman, a Youngstown suburb, but even here in Ytown, we have such a strong cultural scene of European immigrants... going to a Applebees is one of your last options.  In Cleveland, if I were to choose Ruby Tuesdays in Westlake or whatever, that would be a sin. 

I'm frankly surprised at the oversaturation if they go to RR, given that stupid Earth Fare that recently opened there (annoying, only marginally better shopping experience than a regular store - I combed through 3 rotted bok chois before I moved out of the produce section). I would have thought strongsville for their new location. Though the Westlake/old Rego's location would actually be good. I just think River is saturated, with the EF and the proximity to Nature's Bin.

 

That "saturation", though, is indicative of the demand for organic food in RR and surrounding communities, which I'm sure is not going unnoticed.  I could be totally wrong, but I suspect Strongsville isn't centrally located enough for Whole Foods to be west side regional draw, and I don't think the city itself is really Whole Foods' target demographic (i.e., well educated, with demonstrable willingness to spend extra on food).

I will be completely thrilled if this is correct as it is right at the Lakewood border.....

 

Whole Foods to open first West Side store in Rocky River, in 37,000-square-foot space off Detroit Road

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/02/whole_foods_to_open_first_west.html

Yup "To make way for Whole Foods, the Fitworks gym will have to move out of River Square. The gym's manager declined to comment, and a company official did not respond to a request for comment."

 

From Feb. 9th.... "Is there an old Fitworks in one of the Detroit Road shopping centers?  That seems to be the likely location that Im seeing the most (if thats where Im thinking, its kindof an ugly low budget shopping center for a WF). 

*Ah, just saw Linda is across from the Detroit Road Shopping Center with the Fitworks."   

 

and:

The Old Giant Eagle at Bunts and Detroit is likely going to become a new "Marketplace" Giant Eagle. 

 

I would agree the old Reni-Rego/Tops seems a likley place but people are saying they signed a lease for the Fitworks space on Detroit.???

 

I dont think the old target is really the right spot/demographics.   

I sure hope the competition with Earthfare brings down the prices . Good news for all of us.

MyTwoSense: You know you retail! 

 

I also agree that Beachwood Place is certainly 2nd tier - though in smaller metros - lesser or similar -2nd tier malls have pockets of high-end that haven't made it yet to CLE (see: Ross Park Mall in PIT, Fashion Mall in Indy, etc...).  Beachwood Place, as a whole, is much nicer looking as a physical mall space...

 

At the same time, Beachwood Place also doesn't have that odd dollar-store on one end/Cartier on the other mix that King of Prussia, Natick Mall, etc... have - though its current massage and nail shop filler is pretty lame...  Those plus the GNC and tux rental place in the old Arhaus spot next to Nordstrom? That's literally all they could find to go there?  Even some retailers like Urban Outfitters and abercrombie (kids) - stores that are already at Crocker for some time - have shunned the prime east side spots... I don't get it...

 

With all that said - if downtown retail could work - Pesht, etc.. - I'm all for it. I'll be there.

 

You mention some fashion retailers and that it takes A to get B to get C, etc.. Funny, in recent years, Beachwood Place has gone so far as to announce Michael Kors and A/X - Armani Exchange as "coming soon" in their literature - and then they haven't. Still waiting...

 

 

 

And this eastsider shares the Crocker sentiments - though it does have a liveliness that some might envy...

I will be completely thrilled if this is correct as it is right at the Lakewood border.....

 

Whole Foods to open first West Side store in Rocky River, in 37,000-square-foot space off Detroit Road

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/02/whole_foods_to_open_first_west.html

 

I can honestly say I'm shocked it's going there...unless they really reconfigure that plaza, it's going to be a nightmare to get in and out of there.

 

How does 37000 sqft compare to the cedar rd store?  This one better have a BBQ island and a growler fill station!

Cedar Center Whole Foods store is around 45K square feet.

To clarify my post that Whole Foods on Cedar was 45K - I've since found reference to Whole Foods Cedar Center to be between 43,000 sq ft (according to Whole Foods site - though the phrasing indicates that # may only be floor space actually selling food), to 45,000 sq ft - on architects page - to 50,000 sq ft in PD article from near opening back in 2007. Rocky River will be 37,000 sq ft. I believe the Wild Oats - now Whole Foods - on Chagrin is in the 25-30K range from what I read in past - though can't put a finger on its size right now. It still doesn't have the same feel as the Cedar store...

I stopped in Dredger's the other day and noticed the entire section of the store (on the raised area) that was dedicated to home goods and decor has been nearly given away to apparel. My thoughts are that the storefront next to DU is going to be either a DU "Home" Shop, or perhaps a relocation of the DU Co-Owner Danielle Deboe's Room Service shop from Ohio City to East Fourth with an emphasis on home goods.

 

There is also a possibility that will be the location of a "custom suit and clothing" portion of the DU business. I read an early article about DU (before its opening) with a quote from Co-Owner Sean Bilovecky that he wanted to introduce a custom suit business within the DU concept.

I stopped in Dredger's the other day and noticed the entire section of the store (on the raised area) that was dedicated to home goods and decor has been nearly given away to apparel. My thoughts are that the storefront next to DU is going to be either a DU "Home" Shop, or perhaps a relocation of the DU Co-Owner Danielle Deboe's Room Service shop from Ohio City to East Fourth with an emphasis on home goods.

 

There is also a possibility that will be the location of a "custom suit and clothing" portion of the DU business. I read an early article about DU (before its opening) with a quote from Co-Owner Sean Bilovecky that he wanted to introduce a custom suit business within the DU concept.

 

Not to be a wet blanket on the intriguing speculation Vulp, but I can confidently say that all of the above are not the direction the space adjacent to Dredgers is going.  Don't think anything is lined up by MRN at the moment, but hopefully that last space can be filled soon.

I really, really want to like and be a regular patron of DU. I purchased some items from the aforementioned "home" section some months ago as a birthday gift, but their clothes are really, really expensive and the women's clothing seems to be designed for really super thin people, waif-like models who can wear a floor length dress with horizontal strips and who can fit their tiny, bony chests into tops with no give in the front. It's like shopping at Anthropologie or something, but without as many inexpensive trinkets you could buy as gifts or for your home.

Not surprisingly it's rockandroller with the first negative comments on Dredgers.

"It's like shopping at Anthropologie or something" = I'd consider that a good thing...

I don't know if R&R was being negative; nothing wrong with observing how a new business doesn't really suit you.  I certainly felt the need to do that in the Flats East Bank thread...

 

That said, I'm sure R&R is rooting for DU to prosper, because it could pave the way for more retail options downtown that do work for her.  Personally, I'm psyched we have a decently upscale/stylish clothing option downtown and can't wait to check it out.

I agree with R&R. I have a hard time finding stuff that fits me as well (as a dude). I can't get my arms through a lot of the sleeves so the men's clothes are tailored for small framed men. That's not really a knock at all just it is what it is. It's not that I can't find things to wear, it's just limited. It's still a top notch store with great customer servive.

^DU clothing (men's) fits me perfectly!  I feel like most of the stuff in that store was designed specifically for me.  And yes, I'm a small framed guy (5' 11", 160).

^DU clothing (men's) fits me perfectly!  I feel like most of the stuff in that store was designed specifically for me.  And yes, I'm a small framed guy (5' 11", 160).

 

Child, you need to eat some rice, bean and collard greens!  Put some meat on 'dem bones!

i love the concept of DU and i support them, but I dont even attempt to buy their clothes. I'm Too big and too tall

Not surprisingly it's rockandroller with the first negative comments on Dredgers.

 

I don't know what that's supposed to mean. I said I want to love it, and I want them to succeed. I have taken several other people there and referred others there online. I have been there at least half a dozen times in the past few months alone. I leave empty handed every time. There is nothing there for someone like me to buy, and none of my friends have bought anything there either. It's an observation. I think they are too high priced for where they are and that their offerings are too narrow, both literally and figuratively. This is the type of boutique I would expect on Robertson in Beverly Hills. Cleveland is not that clientele. I would be interested to know how they are doing, as everyone I've observed when I've been in the store is browsing and then leaves without buying anything. I want them to survive, and so I am pointing out the reasons why they may not.

Not surprisingly it's rockandroller with the first negative comments on Dredgers.

 

I don't know what that's supposed to mean. I said I want to love it, and I want them to succeed. I have taken several other people there and referred others there online. I have been there at least half a dozen times in the past few months alone. I leave empty handed every time. There is nothing there for someone like me to buy, and none of my friends have bought anything there either. It's an observation. I think they are too high priced for where they are and that their offerings are too narrow, both literally and figuratively. This is the type of boutique I would expect on Robertson in Beverly Hills. Cleveland is not that clientele. I would be interested to know how they are doing, as everyone I've observed when I've been in the store is browsing and then leaves without buying anything. I want them to survive, and so I am pointing out the reasons why they may not.

 

I completely disagree.  You may not be that clientele, but there is $$ her to support those types of stores.

For me as well, the prices are on the high side. However, I don't think prices are exorbitant. Dredgers Union merchandise is priced equal or only a bit higher than similar concept stores such as J.Crew, Banana Republic, Urban Outfitters. The prices are competitive with higher end department stores' denim and contemporary departments.

 

I can't afford to eat regularly (or even occasionally) at most of the restaurants on East Fourth, but other people seem to do this, and the Cleveland market appears to support them!

Well, let's discontinue the agreement or disagreement about whether or not there are enough people to keep DU in business, as time will tell on that one, plus it's not on topic.

I think what RnR is trying to say is their clothing sizes only fit a small demographic and not that there isn't enough money in this town to support it.

I did buy my wife a kick ass coat in DU for Christmas and she loves it.

Incorrect but thanks for trying to interpret. I am saying they have a twofold problem - clothing both too small AND too expensive for most of the people who would be on E 4th street and shopping at that store. Maybe they should move to Beachwood Mall. And I am not saying that to be snarky. I'm saying if they want to do a thriving business and not have a handful of customers all day who come in and leave empty handed, they have a challenge. In my opinion.

I think what RnR is trying to say is their clothing sizes only fit a small demographic and not that there isn't enough money in this town to support it.

I did buy my wife a kick ass coat in DU for Christmas and she loves it.

 

And I disagree with that.  I listed studies here on why Cleveland is the most undeserved luxury market in the States. We have more people spending money via the Internet, more than any other city at luxury brands.  zip codes 44120, 44122, 44118 & 44022 spend more money on luxury goods via the Internet than any other big city market.

 

We dont have the brick and mortar stores in a centralized location like Boston, Philly (CBD or Suburban), ATL (suburban), Houston (suburban) to support the stores as of yet.  The money is here, the retail location(s) is(are) not as of yet.

Yeah, let's move on.  R&R has always had the ability to bring the venom out of a lot of people so we should end it right here...

I think what RnR is trying to say is their clothing sizes only fit a small demographic and not that there isn't enough money in this town to support it.

I did buy my wife a kick ass coat in DU for Christmas and she loves it.

 

 

 

And I disagree with that.  I listed studies here on why Cleveland is the most undeserved luxury market in the States. We have more people spending money via the Internet, more than any other city at luxury brands.  zip codes 44120, 44122, 44118 & 44022 spend more money on luxury goods via the Internet than any other big city market.

 

We dont have the brick and mortar stores in a centralized location like Boston, Philly (CBD or Suburban), ATL (suburban), Houston (suburban) to support the stores as of yet.  The money is here, the retail location(s) is(are) not as of yet.

 

link me to this study?

I think what RnR is trying to say is their clothing sizes only fit a small demographic and not that there isn't enough money in this town to support it.

I did buy my wife a kick ass coat in DU for Christmas and she loves it.

 

And I disagree with that.  I listed studies here on why Cleveland is the most undeserved luxury market in the States. We have more people spending money via the Internet, more than any other city at luxury brands.  zip codes 44120, 44122, 44118 & 44022 spend more money on luxury goods via the Internet than any other big city market.

 

We dont have the brick and mortar stores in a centralized location like Boston, Philly (CBD or Suburban), ATL (suburban), Houston (suburban) to support the stores as of yet.  The money is here, the retail location(s) is(are) not as of yet.

 

Right. Beachwood. And environs.

w28th and I do agree on something - let's move on.

I think what RnR is trying to say is their clothing sizes only fit a small demographic and not that there isn't enough money in this town to support it.

I did buy my wife a kick ass coat in DU for Christmas and she loves it.

 

And I disagree with that.  I listed studies here on why Cleveland is the most undeserved luxury market in the States. We have more people spending money via the Internet, more than any other city at luxury brands.  zip codes 44120, 44122, 44118 & 44022 spend more money on luxury goods via the Internet than any other big city market.

 

We dont have the brick and mortar stores in a centralized location like Boston, Philly (CBD or Suburban), ATL (suburban), Houston (suburban) to support the stores as of yet.  The money is here, the retail location(s) is(are) not as of yet.

 

Right. Beachwood. And environs.

Beachwood is our best mall, yet compared to other malls, nationwide, its a tier 2 mall.  The store that once occupied TC were considered tier 1 and centralized.

Just so we can stay on topic, can the retail discussion be moved, NOT DELETED, to the following thread?:  http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,9505.msg525002.html#msg525002

 

Thanks.

 

And you have the adequate knowledge and background to actually say something like this? You know they have any problems especially a two fold problem? What exactly are you basing this internal knowledge on? It's quite simple, You don't belong in this store, there are plenty of discount stores for you. I spent a good amount of time in there while visiting and their pricing is completely in line with many buyers today, even people in Cleveland. Their pricing is way way way below many stores in most cities I visit. I got to meet the owners and people who worked there and they are fantastic and even used my Partner and me in one of the video promotions. They all told me the business has been amazing and much more than they expected. It' completely amazing you just assume they are not doing well or have problems and then suggest they move to Beachwood?? Maybe you have a low opininon of Clevelandars but may people do not. Thank God there are people like the Owners of DU that have faith in Clevelandars. I am offended at your comments.

Incorrect but thanks for trying to interpret. I am saying they have a twofold problem - clothing both too small AND too expensive for most of the people who would be on E 4th street and shopping at that store. Maybe they should move to Beachwood Mall. And I am not saying that to be snarky. I'm saying if they want to do a thriving business and not have a handful of customers all day who come in and leave empty handed, they have a challenge. In my opinion.

I think this entire debate is a prime example of a big problem that we have in the city of Cleveland: the way that we view OURSELVES. DU isn't "cleveland". Well, why isn't it? Don't we deserve to live in luxury too? Don't we deserve to have stores and restaurants and hotels and other shops that cater to people who want the finer things in life? What's wrong with that? Why is that not Cleveland? I'll tell you why: because we have had this godawful inferiority complex for so long that we've begun to believe it. Cleveland is a major city. We don't act like it, but we are. And it is high time that we start behaving like one. Now, should every retail store in Cleveland cater to the clientele of DU? No. There should be something for everybody. But lets stop this loser mentality that says that anything is "too good" or "too fancy" or "too luxury" for Cleveland. When we act like that, when we think like that, when we talk like that we prove every lame ass comedian, biased national media outlet and uninformed American right about Cleveland. STOP ACTING LIKE LOSERS. This is Cleveland, dammit! We deserve the best and its time we stop settling for less or, worse, believing that that's all we deserve or that's all our "market" can handle, which is bull.

I don't know. Tower City certainly had its share of top tier stores in a time when the downtown and overall city had significantly more income and well-paying jobs....  and it was a dismal failure,  at least for that kind of client base.

 

Sure there are more downtown residents today of relatively high income, but the city as a whole has significantly less economic power, with a much smaller daytime business population who could afford such high end goods.

 

There is nothing wrong with confronting economic reality. This isn't a defeatist attitude, just an observation

I don't know. Tower City certainly had its share of top tier stores in a time when the downtown and overall city had significantly more income and well-paying jobs....  and it was a dismal failure,  at least for that kind of client base.

 

Sure there are more downtown residents today of relatively high income, but the city as a whole has significantly less economic power, with a much smaller daytime business population who could afford such high end goods.

 

There is nothing wrong with confronting economic reality. This isn't a defeatist attitude, just an observation

 

I think it's tough to compare that situation to DU for a bunch of reasons.  As Vulpster03 mentioned, it's not like we're talking Fendi/Gucci/Barneys prices here, and most of the other stuff in Tower City had to compete with suburban locations of the exact same stores.  It's not that DU doesn't have to compete, but its downtown store is literally unique within the region.  It might also be boosted by on line sales, who knows.

 

I think its awesome when people describe their observations about stores, including how crowded they seem, and about the goods they sell, and I appreciate people's opinions about a business's chances to stick around, even if it's just speculation.  I hope none of these heated discussions chill that kind of posting.  Folks probably should be careful extrapolating too much from their own experiences though, whether its about their spending money, girth or whatever.  Not every store is meant for every shopper, which is cool. 

And you have the adequate knowledge and background to actually say something like this? You know they have any problems especially a two fold problem? What exactly are you basing this internal knowledge on? It's quite simple, You don't belong in this store, there are plenty of discount stores for you. I spent a good amount of time in there while visiting and their pricing is completely in line with many buyers today, even people in Cleveland. Their pricing is way way way below many stores in most cities I visit. I got to meet the owners and people who worked there and they are fantastic and even used my Partner and me in one of the video promotions. They all told me the business has been amazing and much more than they expected. It' completely amazing you just assume they are not doing well or have problems and then suggest they move to Beachwood?? Maybe you have a low opininon of Clevelandars but may people do not. Thank God there are people like the Owners of DU that have faith in Clevelandars. I am offended at your comments.

Incorrect but thanks for trying to interpret. I am saying they have a twofold problem - clothing both too small AND too expensive for most of the people who would be on E 4th street and shopping at that store. Maybe they should move to Beachwood Mall. And I am not saying that to be snarky. I'm saying if they want to do a thriving business and not have a handful of customers all day who come in and leave empty handed, they have a challenge. In my opinion.

 

I'm thrilled to hear they are doing well. I never alleged that I "know" they have a problem, or that my issue with them is mine alone. Every time I have been in there, by myself, or with any of the 4 people I have taken there (3 women, 1 man), there are hardly any people in there, and the people I see in there are not buying anything. Every single person I have taken has remarked about how expensive the items are, with ZERO prompting from me and with me telling them before we got there how much I like the store. And I DO like the store, I'm just neither likely to buy a $129 shirt nor a dress that is for someone who is a size zero. Clearly yes, I am not their target customer and neither have any of the other people been who I have taken there or seen there. My original post, if you would read it, is not a bash, it's that I want to like them and that I am concerned for their business. My opinion of Clevelanders is not low, it has nothing to do with that and that's just silly.

 

If there is absolutely no problem, they have tons of customers and are raking in the money and it's just not from me or anybody I know, I am THRILLED. Glad to hear it.

 

 

I agree the place is a bit expensive. I remember going there with my girlfriend and she found a pair of glasses she liked there. They were 40 some dollars I believe. They had a tag on them so I looked them up online from the company that made them website you could buy the same pair for $15 to $20. It was something like that, but it was awhile ago so I dont remember the exact prices, but it was less than half. Its one thing to support local business which I am glad to do, but that is just getting ripped off in that situation. I hope they do good though! Just not for me or my girlfriend.

Whether or not you like them, having a store that would fit in at Beachwood Place do well in downtown Cleveland is a great sign of health for the city.  Even if the store isn't your cup of tea.

Agreed 100%. And I hope they ARE doing well.

I can tell you, as I live downtown and shop at Dredger's frequently, that they are doing well.  The things I've noticed there....downtown residents are not as large as suburban residents as small's and mediums disappear so quickly...and XL is always on clearance.  I've been in there many times while someone is ringing out a few hundred in merchandise.  Quite often, they are packaging up online orders and the made in 216 events are always huge.  CLE does quite well also. 

I agree the place is a bit expensive. I remember going there with my girlfriend and she found a pair of glasses she liked there. They were 40 some dollars I believe. They had a tag on them so I looked them up online from the company that made them website you could buy the same pair for $15 to $20. It was something like that, but it was awhile ago so I dont remember the exact prices, but it was less than half. Its one thing to support local business which I am glad to do, but that is just getting ripped off in that situation. I hope they do good though! Just not for me or my girlfriend.

Expensive is relative to each individual.

I don't know. Tower City certainly had its share of top tier stores in a time when the downtown and overall city had significantly more income and well-paying jobs....  and it was a dismal failure,  at least for that kind of client base.

 

Sure there are more downtown residents today of relatively high income, but the city as a whole has significantly less economic power, with a much smaller daytime business population who could afford such high end goods.

 

There is nothing wrong with confronting economic reality. This isn't a defeatist attitude, just an observation

 

A dismal failure?  Not by any means.  TC downfall was FC lack of management.  Period.

 

I will agree that at the time TC came online DT nor the adjacent neighborhoods didn't have the population it has today.  Which is why i think and feel a reincarnated TC will do much better as it has both a business and residential market.

 

Even with Beachwood open, people from all areas of Ohio came to TC.

 

I think this entire debate is a prime example of a big problem that we have in the city of Cleveland: the way that we view OURSELVES. DU isn't "cleveland". Well, why isn't it? Don't we deserve to live in luxury too? Don't we deserve to have stores and restaurants and hotels and other shops that cater to people who want the finer things in life? What's wrong with that? Why is that not Cleveland? I'll tell you why: because we have had this godawful inferiority complex for so long that we've begun to believe it. Cleveland is a major city. We don't act like it, but we are. And it is high time that we start behaving like one. Now, should every retail store in Cleveland cater to the clientele of DU? No. There should be something for everybody. But lets stop this loser mentality that says that anything is "too good" or "too fancy" or "too luxury" for Cleveland. When we act like that, when we think like that, when we talk like that we prove every lame ass comedian, biased national media outlet and uninformed American right about Cleveland. STOP ACTING LIKE LOSERS. This is Cleveland, dammit! We deserve the best and its time we stop settling for less or, worse, believing that that's all we deserve or that's all our "market" can handle, which is bull.

 

AMEN  PREACH!!

 

 

A dismal failure?  Not by any means.  TC downfall was FC lack of management.  Period.

This seems unsubstantiated.