E Rocc: Saks has 3 exterior entrances. Nordstrom has 6.

 

As for overall crime at Beachwood Place, I'm not sure if more is actually happening OR if more arrests are being made and/or its simply easier to find reports online than in the past...

 

With that said, the perception is that there has been a change in the mix of the clientele at the mall in the past decade (some would say the store "NEXT" helped attract new shoppers...)... That's not a bad thing... But, for better or worse, there will be some segment of the population that simply hears of this year's Christmas Eve fight, or will remember the one on Christmas Eve 4-5 years ago, both involving a similar demographic, and simpy say "enough".. That's what GGP needs to fear the most...(And a check of Twitter, responding to this event, says it may already be happening...)

E Rocc: Saks has 3 exterior entrances. Nordstrom has 6.

 

That's what I thought.  Anchors aren't usually impacted quite so much by loitering.  They can control their environment better.

 

In the case of RPM, there was also an issue with car thefts and this impacted the anchors.  I don't believe this is the case in Beachwood.  The old joke was that NRPD didn't patrol the mall lot because the stolen cars weren't speeding.

E Rocc: Saks has 3 exterior entrances. Nordstrom has 6.

 

As for overall crime at Beachwood Place, I'm not sure if more is actually happening OR if more arrests are being made and/or its simply easier to find reports online than in the past...

 

With that said, the perception is that there has been a change in the mix of the clientele at the mall in the past decade (some would say the store "NEXT" helped attract new shoppers...)... That's not a bad thing... But, for better or worse, there will be some segment of the population that simply hears of this year's Christmas Eve fight, or will remember the one on Christmas Eve 4-5 years ago, both involving a similar demographic, and simpy say "enough".. That's what GGP needs to fear the most...(And a check of Twitter, responding to this event, says it may already be happening...)

 

At some point the community needs to say enough.  Apparently this brawl started because one girl stepped on another's Air Jordon?  This is the kind of stuff that feeds the stereotypes.

What's the community going to do? Oh, expand the mall! Great idea in an era of increasing online shopping and decreasing need for brick-and-mortars space. This will lead to lower costs to rent space and more...you guessed it...stores like Next. I can't help but feel a little giddy when I see stories like this out of Poachwood. They want it all, they get it all. All of it.

Adding more and better trained security would go a long way. When I'm there and see “security guards" there that aside from their uniforms, look like they're just hanging out at the mall themselves it makes me look at them like a joke.

 

That's what I was hinting at when I said I'm surprised General Growth let it get that bad.

 

Its hard if not impossible to have a security team identify potential trouble makers, but an increased presence I think would be appreciated by the community and the lease holders in that mall.

What a perfect Christmas present for the local twitterverse....

^what's that supposed to mean?  There was a huge fight at a mall outside of Pittsburgh a few days ago with 1000 teenagers. This isn't  just a Cleveland problem.  'Tis the season!

^I believe there were a couple more nation wide in addition to the Pittsburgh incident.

Buffalo had a good one also.  Just google "mall brawl" and click on video or news.  Tons of them.  WTF is wrong with these kids today?  We used to go to the mall and loiter....but never with the intention of going to jail!

I wonder if there is any connection between indoor malls and these types of occurrences or if outdoor malls also see this happening?

  We used to go to the mall and loiter....

and make fun of other people!

I wonder if there is any connection between indoor malls and these types of occurrences or if outdoor malls also see this happening?

 

The connection is outdoor malls have more control over their space.  There aren't any common areas outside of the stores themselves.

 

I don't recall Southgate having these sorts of problems even when Randall Mall did.

The protests, brawls, or whatever do hit the anchor stores too.  A Macy's in St. Louis sustained a decent amount of merchandise damage in a "peaceful protest" the other night.

Meanwhile, Randall Park Mall, once the largest mall in the World is slated to have its demolition begin TOMORROW.

 

Damn, I go on a Caribbean cruise for a few days and I miss this bombshell?? That was one of my hangout malls. Another was Tanglewood Mall, but it was barely a mall. Randall Park was where we all went because it had EVERYTHING. I remember going there right after it opened in 1976 and seeing one of the department stores (Hornes?) still under construction. I stood inside the mall, looked through a peephole into that department store and saw a bulldozer working under the store's finished roof when the floor was still dirt. That memory stuck with me because it was so unusual to see a bulldozer working indoors.

Meanwhile, Randall Park Mall, once the largest mall in the World is slated to have its demolition begin TOMORROW.

 

Damn, I go on a Caribbean cruise for a few days and I miss this bombshell?? That was one of my hangout malls. Another was Tanglewood Mall, but it was barely a mall. Randall Park was where we all went because it had EVERYTHING. I remember going there right after it opened in 1976 and seeing one of the department stores (Hornes?) still under construction. I stood inside the mall, looked through a peephole into that department store and saw a bulldozer working under the store's finished roof when the floor was still dirt. That memory stuck with me because it was so unusual to see a bulldozer working indoors.

 

I don't if it was really out-of-the-blue. I think that demolition has been slated for some time now. It will definitely be strange driving by there each day and seeing chunks of it missing. I remember spending time there with friends after I first got my driver's license in the late 1990s. Pretty sure it was already well past its prime at that point and my parents "gently" suggested that I no longer go there because of safety. One thing that still stands out in my memory is the store that sold (amongst other weapons) real ninja stars...kind of an odd mall item.

 

Taking the bigger picture view, it's sad how easily and shamelessly that we've thrown away our malls in this region. There are lots of reasons why this has happened, but perhaps it's time that our suburbs stop fighting each other to hitch their wagon to the short-term solution of large-scale retail centers.

Dying malls is not unique to Greater Cleveland. It's a national phenomenon.

Dying malls is not unique to Greater Cleveland. It's a national phenomenon.

 

Yeah that's undoubtedly true. I guess I just feel like we have more deal mall square footage here, particularly on the eastside (Euclid, Randall Park, Severance, Richmond [soon], etc.), than other areas, per capita. Statistically that seems like a fair way to measure it, though I certainly don't have time to do the research and compare this area to other regions.

The east side of Cleveland was probably over retailed. In 1998 there were 6 indoor malls on the east side.

 

Columbus has lost three malls in their region, with Eastland being near death. That would be half the malls in that area. Cincinnati has also lost three, but I think the proportion is lower than half.

Sad to see how we threw away our malls?  The real tragedy is what was lost FOR those malls.  Local business, crowded sidewalks and city streets, we could go on and on...

The east side of Cleveland was probably over retailed. In 1998 there were 6 indoor malls on the east side.

 

Including Beachwood, what was the other one? Was Southgate a real mall? I can't remember.

North to south Great Lakes, Euclid, Richmond, Severance, Beachwood, Randall.

Heard a rumor Burlington Coat factory is coming to Severance in at least pary of the old Walmart space.

The east side of Cleveland was probably over retailed. In 1998 there were 6 indoor malls on the east side.

 

Including Beachwood, what was the other one? Was Southgate a real mall? I can't remember.

 

Southgate, which is still going on a smaller scale, was always an outdoor access only facility.  There were a couple hallways that cut across between parking lots, but I don't recall any stores fronting on them.

The protests, brawls, or whatever do hit the anchor stores too.  A Macy's in St. Louis sustained a decent amount of merchandise damage in a "peaceful protest" the other night.

 

Outdoor-access places are vulnerable to that too, if it's being tolerated.  It's the day to day unpredictable stuff that saps resources and keeps people away.

Sad to see how we threw away our malls?  The real tragedy is what was lost FOR those malls.  Local business, crowded sidewalks and city streets, we could go on and on...

 

I'd say 80% of people don't consider crowded sidewalks a loss.  Again, cities are better off recognizing that too much extraneous "density" is uncomfortable for many (perhaps most) people most of the time.

Yeah, nobody goes there because it's too crowded.

^^yes crowded walkways in Malls or Wal Mart are much more pleasant. Sorry, I Couldn't resist the opportunity to  snark.

 

Speaking of area retail, what ever that shopping center on the corner of Bishop and Chardon Rds in Willoughby Hills is called lost the Bakers square last week. I think the whole complex including the outer plazas is down to Office Max, a giant eagle, eddies bike shop and a shady appliance/ mattress place.

^Loehmann's Plaza.  Is the movie theatre not still there?

It might be. I forgot about that. We used to go up to the Manhattan Deli for lunch before they moved. The Burger King has been vacant for 2 or 3 years now. I think the NTB is still there. The whole thing is pretty vacant. When I go there to pick up  stuff at Office Max during the day there are about 6 cars in a sea of empty parking. How old is that? Early 90s?

It might be. I forgot about that. We used to go up to the Manhattan Deli for lunch before they moved. The Burger King has been vacant for 2 or 3 years now. I think the NTB is still there. The whole thing is pretty vacant. When I go there to pick up  stuff at Office Max during the day there are about 6 cars in a sea of empty parking. How old is that? Early 90s?

 

The vacantest of the vacant might be the part of Meadowbrook east of Northfield Road, where Target and Tops used to be.  For a couple years the only thing left was a Gamestop, and even that moved across the street.  Giant Eagle was originally going to move their badly dated Bedford store (which has unflattering nicknames) into the old Top's (Get-go is catty cornered) but never did.

 

Walmart's aisles aren't so crowded in the wee hours.  :)  And haven't we been talking about indoor malls being passe?

The dollar theater is closed there

It might be. I forgot about that. We used to go up to the Manhattan Deli for lunch before they moved. The Burger King has been vacant for 2 or 3 years now. I think the NTB is still there. The whole thing is pretty vacant. When I go there to pick up  stuff at Office Max during the day there are about 6 cars in a sea of empty parking. How old is that? Early 90s?

 

Loemann's Plaza is from the early 80s. Once Sams Club closed, the remainder of the stores slowly pulled out leaving only the Giant Eagle, Office Max, Marc's, and the mattress place.

The dollar theater is closed there

 

Are any even open anywhere anymore?

This has been rumored for awhile but Claddaugh's at Legacy closed they say due to their high rent, they have been long rumored to just being able to make rent, I am sure a highly visable spot like that won't be vacant long.

Dying malls is not unique to Greater Cleveland. It's a national phenomenon.

 

Yeah that's undoubtedly true. I guess I just feel like we have more deal mall square footage here, particularly on the eastside (Euclid, Randall Park, Severance, Richmond [soon], etc.), than other areas, per capita. Statistically that seems like a fair way to measure it, though I certainly don't have time to do the research and compare this area to other regions.

 

The Economics (and Nostalgia) of Dead Malls http://t.co/MV3cqzS9Nf

It's good when the 5th Street Arcades now has so many stores that a directory is needed......

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/agenda/2015/01082015/index.php

 

Cleveland Landmark Commission

AGENDA - January 8, 2015

 

Colonial and Euclid Arcades: Case 15-004

5th Street Arcades 510-30 Euclid and 503-29 Prospect Avenues

 

JC Penny's at Richmond Mall made the cut; sadly, Macy's did not

JC Penny's at Richmond Mall made the cut; sadly, Macy's did not

 

Quite honestly, I'm surprised to hear Macy's was still open there. It's been about 4 years since I was last at that mall, and it seemed in bad shape then. I just assumed Macy's had long left.

The Macy's there was pretty nice, definitely the nicest department store at the mall, and always seemed to be doing decent.  I think its biggest problem is that it's too close to the University Square Macy's.

^Right..... US's Macy's is much better.  I'm not a Macy's fan, but my Mother-In-Law gets me crap from Macy's every Christmas, half of which (at least) I end up returning.  I went to the Richmond store first and their selection didn't compare.  The mall itself is not in bad shape.  It's always clean in there and there aren't a ton of vacancies.  It certainly does not have anywhere near the foot traffic that Beachwood has, which you can view as a good thing if you just wanted to pop in and out.

^I agree. I think Richmond Heights and Simon the mall owner should have discussed redevelopment plans 10 years ago. Maybe adding new residential in that parking lot that only gets used for charter bus pick ups and drivers ed training.

 

South Euclid-Lyndhurst schools get the tax money anyway.

^I remember Richmond Mall being rehabbed somewhere between '98-'00, after Kaufman's left Euclid for Richmond.  Before that I remember the mall being kind if dingy, and I didn't go there much when I was younger.  Personally, I don't think the mall looks half bad today- the issue with some may be the shifting demographics.

Yea, it was renovated in 98. It began to decline around 2005. Macy's is a strong anchor to have. Centers anchored by Sears and JC Penney don't do as well as those with a Macy's or Dillard's. I'm just thinking more could be done with that property to stop the decline.

^Right..... US's Macy's is much better.  I'm not a Macy's fan, but my Mother-In-Law gets me crap from Macy's every Christmas, half of which (at least) I end up returning.  I went to the Richmond store first and their selection didn't compare.  The mall itself is not in bad shape.  It's always clean in there and there aren't a ton of vacancies.  It certainly does not have anywhere near the foot traffic that Beachwood has, which you can view as a good thing if you just wanted to pop in and out.

When you come out of Macy's, if you head right, the mall looks like it's doing well, including the wing to the food court.  The shorter wing to the left has a fair amount of vacancies and no name stores.

 

The last time I was there, it was pretty busy, and that was before the holiday season.

South Euclid-Lyndhurst schools get the tax money anyway.

 

Not sure what that's supposed to mean, but that's because it's located within the boundaries of the SE-L school district, along with a number of Richmond Heights residents living in homes just north of Wilson Mills. Richmond Heights still gets whatever paltry income tax revenues comes from the employees working in the mall's stores.

^Right..... US's Macy's is much better.  I'm not a Macy's fan, but my Mother-In-Law gets me crap from Macy's every Christmas, half of which (at least) I end up returning.  I went to the Richmond store first and their selection didn't compare.  The mall itself is not in bad shape.  It's always clean in there and there aren't a ton of vacancies.  It certainly does not have anywhere near the foot traffic that Beachwood has, which you can view as a good thing if you just wanted to pop in and out.

When you come out of Macy's, if you head right, the mall looks like it's doing well, including the wing to the food court.  The shorter wing to the left has a fair amount of vacancies and no name stores.

 

The last time I was there, it was pretty busy, and that was before the holiday season.

 

just another sears wing gone awry

I used to practically live at Richmond Mall in the 1970s. My friends and I hung out there. I saw Close Encounters of the Third Kind there twice during the Christmas holiday 1977. I bought a few ultra-violet/black velvet posters but never a lava lamp amongst all the Playboy naked lady glasses and ashtrays at Spencers. Used to buy drag-racer/funny-car T-shirts in a mid-mall kiosk. And I remember there was a restaurant at the junction of the T-shaped atrium where we often ate.

 

The only shopping center I visited more was Hilltop Plaza on the other side of Wilson Mills Road. Rode my bike to both plazas all the time as they were so close to my house.

 

Then Randall Park Mall opened and we moved to Geauga County, so Randall Park was our closest "real mall" but Tanglewood Mall, much smaller, was actually closer.

All my childhood memories of Richmond Mall are pretty much limited to the movie theatre which had only like 3 screens, the arcade (Fun'n'Games?), and that Burger King (pre-food court).  Oh yeah.... my friend worked at the pizza place (Scotty's?).

 

Hilltop Plaza was never the same after Yan-Yans and Kiddie City pulled out.

All my childhood memories of Richmond Mall are pretty much limited to the movie theatre which had only like 3 screens, the arcade (Fun'n'Games?), and that Burger King (pre-food court).  Oh yeah.... my friend worked at the pizza place (Scotty's?).

 

Hilltop Plaza was never the same after Yan-Yans and Kiddie City pulled out.

 

Yikes you guys are old...  :-o

^ He's too young to get that reference. He's probably trying to find out what cowboy movie Jonathan Taylor Thomas was in.