Is there a plan on the expansion? I was inside Beechwood Place last year and was kind of disappointed with the selection - there were many holes in the storefronts that could have been filled. With Legacy Place expanding and Eton adding ultra-luxury options - and now Orange's "Easton Towne Centre" coming up - I wonder how the mall will fare.

With what's reported so far, I don't see many smaller retailers jumping ship to Pinecrest. It seems more Lifestyle related similar to Gulfstream Park in Halldandale Beach, FL (furniture, restaurants, entertainment) to me based on what is officially committed. I don't see Eton adding much more due to space constraints. Legacy has some space available still, but Beachwood really should be the premier mall in the area. It doesn't seem that will go away but I agree that they need to expand and finish out the space updates.

Commenting on Heinens downtown location above.  If I was from Cleveland, I would never even know there was a grocery store in there if walking or driving past. In other cities, urban groceries like Heinens tend to have lots of windows at the sidewalk where you can see all the salads, olives, wines, cheeses etc.  this building, being a former bank, obviously has, imho, a terrible street presence.  They even still have bars on the few windows there are. 

I shouldnt complain, because this is an awesome addition to the city, just wish it "lit up the corner" and had a better street presence.

 

It's Heinens.  They are probably more interested in a calmer ambience indoors than the perception from outside.  Plus they are constrained by the architecture of a former bank, as you say.

^ yeah and better to be very careful about putting too much advertising on that building. i dk what else they can do to make their presence more known though, that's a tough one.

There are certain customers for a downtown urban grocery. Lunchtime workers who work within walking distance who will come over and buy a couple of items they need or maybe grab a to-go lunch if the options are good (salad bar, etc.). Then there are people who would shop there for their groceries, which are going to be pretty strictly people who live very close by and can walk home with a couple of bags of groceries.

 

Other urban groceries aren't up against a lot of the challenges that this one has, I think. Parking is still very, very important and there is nowhere to park to go there. My Mom wanted to see the inside of the building and we had a terrible time finding a place to park on a weekend without forking over a huge amount for a lot, then had to walk quite a ways just to get to the store - it's nowhere I can see her ever shopping again and she is a devoted Heinen's customer. I wouldn't shop there myself because I work just outside of downtown proper so I'd have to drive over there to get any significant amount of groceries. There are just a lot of reasons for people not to go there who could be their customers and many of them center around parking. Nobody who works downtown is going to want to schlep huge bags across a street and up to their office and find a place to keep the groceries for the day in the work fridge.

 

It's really going to be all urban dwellers who shop there, and I don't know how many of them are keen on hauling bags and bags of groceries by hand (or via some push-cart) either. I more likely see many of them getting into their car and going to Steelyard.

 

Until cleveland changes culturally to be more like a real urban center and/or more european focused, like picking up just a few items several times a week instead of big hauls on the weekend, it's not going to get the traffic I think it really needs to be profitable.

 

Just my opinion of course. But I've been there all of once since it opened, that time with my Mom. My boyfriend's mother and aunt, who are also elderly, asked me to take them but when I said we'd probably have to park a couple of blocks away and walk, they were disinterested. I offered to drop them off but honestly, with so many parking spots taken away from construction and the meters being CONSTANTLY hooded for one event or another, they'd probably be waiting for me for a really long time as I scour all of downtown to try to find a place to park. I'm just not paying $15 for a parking lot to visit a grocery store for maybe a half hour.

 

I hope the culture DOES change and the people who are living in downtown start shopping there more. But I'm not sure what can make that happen.

Commenting on Heinens downtown location above.  If I was from Cleveland, I would never even know there was a grocery store in there if walking or driving past. In other cities, urban groceries like Heinens tend to have lots of windows at the sidewalk where you can see all the salads, olives, wines, cheeses etc.  this building, being a former bank, obviously has, imho, a terrible street presence.  They even still have bars on the few windows there are. 

I shouldnt complain, because this is an awesome addition to the city, just wish it "lit up the corner" and had a better street presence.

 

 

It's Heinens.  They are probably more interested in a calmer ambience indoors than the perception from outside.  Plus they are constrained by the architecture of a former bank, as you say.

 

 

I think the heavy foot traffic in and out might help draw people in.  They have some signage, but they are probably pretty restricted as far as what they can do.  I do think some facade lighting at night would really help.  I think that was in the original plan and I am really disappointed they haven't added any yet.  The Schofield corner will be wonderfully lit at night, I wish that Heinens would follow suit.

Commenting on Heinens downtown location above.  If I was from Cleveland, I would never even know there was a grocery store in there if walking or driving past. In other cities, urban groceries like Heinens tend to have lots of windows at the sidewalk where you can see all the salads, olives, wines, cheeses etc.  this building, being a former bank, obviously has, imho, a terrible street presence.  They even still have bars on the few windows there are. 

I shouldnt complain, because this is an awesome addition to the city, just wish it "lit up the corner" and had a better street presence.

 

 

It's Heinens.  They are probably more interested in a calmer ambience indoors than the perception from outside.  Plus they are constrained by the architecture of a former bank, as you say.

 

 

I think the heavy foot traffic in and out might help draw people in.  They have some signage, but they are probably pretty restricted as far as what they can do.  I do think some facade lighting at night would really help.  I think that was in the original plan and I am really disappointed they haven't added any yet.  The Schofield corner will be wonderfully lit at night, I wish that Heinens would follow suit.

 

That's true of the rotunda section of the store, but the contrary is true for the section in the 1010 Euclid. You can very clearly see into the store at eye level and you see the aisles and the cashier stations.

You can see into the store for what feels like half a block along Euclid.  It's awesome.  Too awesome for words, when I think of all the years that place was boarded up.

There are certain customers for a downtown urban grocery. Lunchtime workers who work within walking distance who will come over and buy a couple of items they need or maybe grab a to-go lunch if the options are good (salad bar, etc.). Then there are people who would shop there for their groceries, which are going to be pretty strictly people who live very close by and can walk home with a couple of bags of groceries.

 

Other urban groceries aren't up against a lot of the challenges that this one has, I think. Parking is still very, very important and there is nowhere to park to go there. My Mom wanted to see the inside of the building and we had a terrible time finding a place to park on a weekend without forking over a huge amount for a lot, then had to walk quite a ways just to get to the store - it's nowhere I can see her ever shopping again and she is a devoted Heinen's customer. I wouldn't shop there myself because I work just outside of downtown proper so I'd have to drive over there to get any significant amount of groceries. There are just a lot of reasons for people not to go there who could be their customers and many of them center around parking. Nobody who works downtown is going to want to schlep huge bags across a street and up to their office and find a place to keep the groceries for the day in the work fridge.

 

It's really going to be all urban dwellers who shop there, and I don't know how many of them are keen on hauling bags and bags of groceries by hand (or via some push-cart) either. I more likely see many of them getting into their car and going to Steelyard.

 

Until cleveland changes culturally to be more like a real urban center and/or more european focused, like picking up just a few items several times a week instead of big hauls on the weekend, it's not going to get the traffic I think it really needs to be profitable.

 

Just my opinion of course. But I've been there all of once since it opened, that time with my Mom. My boyfriend's mother and aunt, who are also elderly, asked me to take them but when I said we'd probably have to park a couple of blocks away and walk, they were disinterested. I offered to drop them off but honestly, with so many parking spots taken away from construction and the meters being CONSTANTLY hooded for one event or another, they'd probably be waiting for me for a really long time as I scour all of downtown to try to find a place to park. I'm just not paying $15 for a parking lot to visit a grocery store for maybe a half hour.

 

I hope the culture DOES change and the people who are living in downtown start shopping there more. But I'm not sure what can make that happen.

 

I really don't know what to say if you think people won't walk a few blocks with grocery bags.  People walk a half a mile with their bags to their cars in a huge parking lot.  Also, what makes you think they won't be profitable? Do you know their numbers or is this just baseless speculation? 

They have free parking a half a block down the street if you spend (super easy) 50 bucks in the store.

 

If you want the culture to change, you could be part of the solution. I pick up a few things from that store at least once a week on my way home and carry them all the way home on the bus for a half hour. It's not hard.

Let me put a plug in here for downtown Heinen's. As a downtown resident, I'm there between 2-3 times per day. Speaking anecdotally, everyone I know who lives downtown shops there for their groceries, even those who live in the Warehouse District. A lot of my coworkers also go there during the work day or their lunch break to pick up things for home. And their lunch business is booming. I think they'll do just fine, especially as downtown's population continues to climb

^i second that.. I'm the same way, and I come over from the WHD.

Let me put a plug in here for downtown Heinen's. As a downtown resident, I'm there between 2-3 times per day. Speaking anecdotally, everyone I know who lives downtown shops there for their groceries, even those who live in the Warehouse District. A lot of my coworkers also go there during the work day or their lunch break to pick up things for home. And their lunch business is booming. I think they'll do just fine, especially as downtown's population continues to climb

 

I'm glad to hear it. The article I read about it didn't sound like business was booming. Not that they're failing either, necessarily. But it sounded like it has been a challenge.

Me being part of the solution isn't really going to work. It's not conducive to my lifestyle or how I shop for food. I am a supporter of Heinen's. The downtown store is not somewhere I can easily or would regularly shop.

We also shop from Heinans from the Warehouse district. Also, don't forget there's a trolley stop on the corner on both sides of the street. When I can ride my bike, I strap a big bag over my shoulders and carry it home.

Me being part of the solution isn't really going to work. It's not conducive to my lifestyle or how I shop for food. I am a supporter of Heinen's. The downtown store is not somewhere I can easily or would regularly shop.

 

Because it's not conducive to your lifestyle or a place you wouldn't regularly shop is fine. However, you make it sound as if because it doesn't work for you, it probably doesn't work for anyone else; therefore, it won't get the business it needs to be profitable. That's a stretch. And the constant harping on parking, geez.  There is plenty of parking.  Also, what is this article you read that you refer to?

No, I said it was my opinion. Which I gave. I'm not here to bicker. Never mind.

Let me put a plug in here for downtown Heinen's. As a downtown resident, I'm there between 2-3 times per day. Speaking anecdotally, everyone I know who lives downtown shops there for their groceries, even those who live in the Warehouse District. A lot of my coworkers also go there during the work day or their lunch break to pick up things for home. And their lunch business is booming. I think they'll do just fine, especially as downtown's population continues to climb

 

I'm glad to hear it. The article I read about it didn't sound like business was booming. Not that they're failing either, necessarily. But it sounded like it has been a challenge.

 

The PD article this week said they were performing as expected in some areas and better than expected in others. I was very pleased to read that. I personally didn't take that as them saying "it has been a challenge" - but actually more as a positive, though it's clear there will be a learning curve/adapting to the way and for what these consumers shop.

To answer the question of who is the primary audience for this Heinens, I can tell you from experience that it is mostly the residents downtown. I personally changed my shopping habits to make small trips every other day for food instead of the huge runs weekly. After you go there on a regular basis, you start to see the same faces and realize that others are adjusting to. I love this style of shopping by the way! Is it as jam packed as the Rocky River location? No, but they are definitely not hurting.

 

As far as going to Steelyard...Let's just say I haven't done that since college, and it is up there with the other questionable decisions I made in college...

Every time I walk by a drug store or grocery store in my Gold Coast neighborhood, I always have to ask myself if there's anything I need. Usually there is, so I stop in and buy something and almost always buy a couple of other things I wasn't thinking when I was outside the store. And that's how I shop -- especially during winter when I rarely drive. And I see lots of people walking with shopping bags in my neighborhood. Sounds like it's getting that way downtown, too.

 

Heinen's has stores in suburban Chicago but not downtown Chicago. Wouldn't it be funny if Heinen's opened a store in downtown Chicago and took the lessons it learned in Cleveland in serving a downtown market and applied them there? Usually it's the other way around.

Even though I don't live downtown, I try and make it a point to stop by Heinen's to pick up a few things or simply soak up the atmosphere.  The buzz about this place, esp the rotunda food court, has been non-stop/off the hook by out-of-towners.  As for regulars, everybody seems satisfied with the ingress/egress.  I'm always on foot, cab or public  trans (and there is the HL plus a bunch of trolleys as well as the East Side buses a block away on Prospect), but I've seen people getting their parking passes validated; everybody is smiling.  And as much as I love the sheer awesomeness of the food court, I enjoy the supermarket part as well... It's got that tight New York-ish kinda feel to it, which is really cool.  In fact, the supermarket part would be right at home on Broadway in Manhattan's Upper West Side.  The only thing missing is the outdoor fruit and flowers bin ... and I wouldn't put it past the Heinen's to install this feature at some future point.

 

Query: is Constantino's still holding up or has there been any discernible drop in their patronage?  I hope that's not the case and that downtown is now big enough that it can handle both places, esp since Constantino's has built up a loyal customer base and is more of limited-item more specialty type food mart.

I visited Cleveland last month for work and luckily was staying downtown so I got to visit Heinen's for the first time (after reading so much about it from you guys on here). Overall, I thought it was fantastic, but would echo what others mentioned above about needing to make it more visible/obvious/enticing from the street.

 

Also, the article referred to by rockandroller is probably this one from Cleveland.com, which has the following quotes,

 

"We're crawling before we walk, but we're definitely in the game. There simply aren't enough people living downtown yet to truly support the store," Tom Heinen said.

 

"It's very rare that anybody in our business opens a store and makes money within the first few years. Even as high as our brand awareness is here in Cleveland, you're still dealing with a neighborhood shop, that local residents have to want to support."

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2016/02/heinens_downtown_cleveland_finds_its_niche_as_an_urban_grocer_as_store_marks_1st_anniversary.html

Thank you Casey. Yes.

I just now got around to reading the article, so is it inferring that the location:

 

1. Loses money?

2. Will be in the location long-term to see what the downtown residential market shakes out?

 

I'd like to see what actually loses money there. The prepared foods and beer/wine areas have high margins and most likely generate all of the profits of the store. The general merchandise has low margins and most likely loses money - but I wonder how much the prepared foods subsidize the rest?

 

Heinen's has stores in suburban Chicago but not downtown Chicago. Wouldn't it be funny if Heinen's opened a store in downtown Chicago and took the lessons it learned in Cleveland in serving a downtown market and applied them there? Usually it's the other way around.

 

what do you mean usually its the other way around? there isn't anything like that via chicago that has ever influenced cleveland. sears maybe? if anything, its pittsburgh with those dam giant eagles. it would be great if heinens opened around there too to get back at them.

I think everyone (not least the goons/ commentators on Cleveland.com) are all trying to read far too much into that article and the quotes it contains. This is probably due to the microscope the store is under as a bellweather of Cleveland's revival and the desire to look for news good or bad.

 

I'm sure that, this being their first urban store, Heinens knew they were not going to get the assortment and offer right on day one. They've already made adjustments and will continue to do so. I'm also sure that they're not making money right now, but again it's not like this is a surprise to them. Tom Heinen's comments are neither good nor bad, just factual.

 

They also went into this knowing that the number of households and shoppers in downtown needs to grow and his comments around subject are, to me, aimed squarely at the other developers involved in downtown. He's basically saying 'we've given you a key reason to make downtown living viable, you need to continue to bring us increasing numbers of people'. I'd have to imagine that they've already pretty much captured the existing available spend in the market - it's the market itself that needs to grow. 

And grow it will. Of all the downtown mega projects on the drawing board, the 600+ units in 925 Euclid seem the most likely to be happen in the near future. Even by suburban standards, that's a short walk.

 

[Typos]

I totally agree. As long as downtown population grows, that store will be there. It's offering may change to capitalize on the types of demand, but it isn't going anywhere. At some point the population level will hit a self-sustaining point. What that is, I don't know. Maybe 20k? Whatever that number is, Heinens are just going to want to see timely progress in that direction.

The only black swan might be Giant Eagle building a huge one story Market District on the Jacobs lot :)

what do you mean usually its the other way around? there isn't anything like that via chicago that has ever influenced cleveland. sears maybe? if anything, its pittsburgh with those dam giant eagles. it would be great if heinens opened around there too to get back at them.

 

Please re-read my post.

Tom Heinen said that downtown doesn't, yet, have the population to "truly support" a downtown supermarket.  They knew this going in, but are committed to the long haul.  I'm confident they'll get there.  It was savvy thinking to put the food court inside the great Rotunda.  As Heinen said, they wanted to make going to Heinen's an event, not just food shopping.

The middle parking lot at Eton was maybe 80% empty tonight at 6 pm... Two weeks ago, and for a dozen years prior, with Trader Joe's in the center of the strip, it would have been 80%+ FULL (100% on weekends). Almost ghosttownish. Eerie. Amazing how much traffic (human and vehicular) was driven by TJs. Will be interesting to see how much spinoff business is lost by TJs loss of adjacency to other tenants OR perhaps how much is gained by lack of parking hassles. Just odd to see, as one who travels by almost daily. Careful what you wish for, Eton...

They closed? Wow. I was just there the other day, saw the sign and wanted to make a stop back just to go there. I was at Eton Saturday evening around 7 pm and in the morning around 10 am and found the parking lot to be quite fill in the evening and pretty empty in the morning (when most businesses opened anyways).

They closed? Wow. I was just there the other day, saw the sign and wanted to make a stop back just to go there. I was at Eton Saturday evening around 7 pm and in the morning around 10 am and found the parking lot to be quite fill in the evening and pretty empty in the morning (when most businesses opened anyways).

 

Moving, I think. 

They closed? Wow. I was just there the other day, saw the sign and wanted to make a stop back just to go there. I was at Eton Saturday evening around 7 pm and in the morning around 10 am and found the parking lot to be quite fill in the evening and pretty empty in the morning (when most businesses opened anyways).

They just moved to a new space in the new west end of the development. Saturday and Sunday will still bring in traffic I'm sure, but Monday through Friday, there's not really a huge draw. I think that's what I don't get with all these different shopping centers with limited stores in them. You have to truly be going to most of these stores and, at least for me, if it's the only thing there I'm going to skip it.

No Brooklyn IKEA, they have dropped their plans for that site, I assume too much hassle with the environmentalists, and have no further sites in mind according to Cleveland.com article, but they continue to recognize their NE Ohio customer base so they say.

Sketchers Outlet just opened in Steelyard next to Villa in the section anchored by Burlington.

Crust, and Possibly Visible Voice Books, to Open in Former Tremont Funeral Home on Professor

http://m.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2016/02/23/crust-and-possibly-visible-voice-books-to-open-in-former-tremont-funeral-home-on-professor

Love that idea!!!!!

Was reading the recently-posted Beachwood zoning minutes from the January meeting - and GGP, the Beachwood Place owner - and now owner of La Place - had some updates on La Place...

 

Those include the fact that a 25,600 square foot tenant will be taking the former Borders space, plus some adjacent mall space - and will be seeking an increase to the roof height of the building (up to potentially 25 ft) to accommodate that move.  The immediate thoughts for that space include the long-rumored (for east side/Pinecrest) Container Store (usually around the same 25,000 square foot range for most new stores), Arhaus (sketched in for a larger, 20,000 sq ft+ store at Pinecrest, currently) - or Restoration Hardware - which has been seeking a new, multi-story location for a 40-50K square foot "Gallery" store - (5X larger than their current store) - and had originally been looking at Beachwood Place - but, who knows, might settle for a smaller, but high visibility La Place space.

 

It was also noted that the former Sushi Rock space would be broken into 3 restaurant spaces, totaling some 8,800 square feet. Rick Doody's Coastal Taco concept, currently being built in the Flats East Bank, is potentially one of those, per published reports.

Exciting news. Good to see some movement there since GGP bought the property. Fingers crossed for Container Store!

Great news let's hope this is the container store

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2016/03/outlet_mall_planned_for_garfie.html#incart_river_mobile_home

 

Outlets of Cleveland coming to Garfield heights

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2016/03/outlet_mall_planned_for_garfie.html#incart_river_mobile_home

 

Outlets of Cleveland coming to Garfield heights

 

Probably suits the area better than IKEA would.

Glad to see that area get some investment.  Right now all that abandoned development is an eyesore.  Maybe eventually this will cross-over to the Giant Eagle shopping center

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2016/03/outlet_mall_planned_for_garfie.html#incart_river_mobile_home

 

Outlets of Cleveland coming to Garfield heights

 

Probably suits the area better than IKEA would.

 

Care to elaborate? In theory, both should/would be region-wide draws.

Glad to see that area get some investment.  Right now all that abandoned development is an eyesore.  Maybe eventually this will cross-over to the Giant Eagle shopping center

 

One step at a time, but I have my doubts about this possibility. That land over there is questionable AND word is that Walmart is sitting on its lease and is refusing to give it up.

 

However the city should be working hard to now follow through on their plans to extend Transportation Boulevard to Rockside Road.

Glad to see that area get some investment.  Right now all that abandoned development is an eyesore.  Maybe eventually this will cross-over to the Giant Eagle shopping center

 

One step at a time, but I have my doubts about this possibility. That land over there is questionable AND word is that Walmart is sitting on its lease and is refusing to give it up.

 

However the city should be working hard to now follow through on their plans to extend Transportation Boulevard to Rockside Road.

 

This isn't that spot.  This is across 480 from there.

Glad to see that area get some investment.  Right now all that abandoned development is an eyesore.  Maybe eventually this will cross-over to the Giant Eagle shopping center

 

One step at a time, but I have my doubts about this possibility. That land over there is questionable AND word is that Walmart is sitting on its lease and is refusing to give it up.

 

However the city should be working hard to now follow through on their plans to extend Transportation Boulevard to Rockside Road.

 

Yes exactly both should be a regional draw yes IKEA is suited for our area

Glad to see that area get some investment.  Right now all that abandoned development is an eyesore.  Maybe eventually this will cross-over to the Giant Eagle shopping center

 

One step at a time, but I have my doubts about this possibility. That land over there is questionable AND word is that Walmart is sitting on its lease and is refusing to give it up.

 

However the city should be working hard to now follow through on their plans to extend Transportation Boulevard to Rockside Road.

 

This isn't that spot.  This is across 480 from there.

 

Yes that's correct it's not the Walmart site it's the one across the way the other side of 480

Yes! Made my day to see this news. I think the half completed big box stores that are on that site right now are a bigger eye sore than the empty completed ones at City View. Wonderful to see that these plans weren't killed off after being proposed so many years ago. I had no idea they were dealing with so many legal issues from Bridgeview on that site. I was interested to see too that " the developer is in the process of widening the overpass to handle additional traffic, estimated to cost about $8 million." I'm taking that to mean Transportation over 480. They just finished repaving that whole area a few months ago. Seems pretty silly and wasteful that they'd tear it all up again now.

 

I was really hoping that this news would come with some updated site plans or even renderings though.

Glad to see that area get some investment.  Right now all that abandoned development is an eyesore.  Maybe eventually this will cross-over to the Giant Eagle shopping center

 

One step at a time, but I have my doubts about this possibility. That land over there is questionable AND word is that Walmart is sitting on its lease and is refusing to give it up.

 

However the city should be working hard to now follow through on their plans to extend Transportation Boulevard to Rockside Road.

 

This isn't that spot.  This is across 480 from there.

 

Re-read that line of discussion. My response was skepticism towards the suggest possibility of this outlet project spurring development south of 480 (location of the current Giant Eagle).