From cleveland.com, 03.29.07

 

Downtown groups order Euclid Ave. retail study

Posted by Henry J. Gomez March 29, 2007 12:00PM

 

Three downtown development groups have ordered a $100,000 study on retail feasibility along lower Euclid Avenue.

 

Officials with the organizations said they see light at the end of the $200 million Euclid Corridor project, which has paralyzed business in the Gateway and Theater districts ...

 

... More at http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2007/03/downtown_groups_order_euclid_a.html

^ So, what's the point of a study? To companies that they won't go out of business if they open shop on Euclid?

about 2 years late, imo, but better late than never.

Judging from the strategic planning component, it sounds like it will help them focus their recruitment efforts toward those businesses that are most likely to succeed along Lower Euclid, and to offer those potential tenants compelling numbers.

 

Just a hunch, but I also wonder if this might have to do with testing concepts around the District of Design, e.g. what businesses would be most successful within the first phase of the design district from a direct sales perspective, what tangential businesses might be most successful in adjacent Euclid front space in the Finance District, etc. I just remember hearing that DCA was incorporating the District of Design into its strategic plan; I would have to believe they'll specifically be probing how both the DoD and the ECP might impact consumer demand in that stretch.

This is sad. I'm a big fan of used bookstores, however, I have to admit, none of the stores in this area have captured my attention like John K. King in Detroit and The Strand in NYC. That said, I feel like the writer sort of exaggerates the affluence and "boom" in Ohio City. It's definitely one of my favorite neighborhoods around, but I wouldn't figure just having a shop would equal sales there.

 

http://www.freetimes.com/story/5020

 

Thirty and Counting

Bookstore On 25th Faces Hard Times, Again

 

By Michael Gill E-mail

 

 

Mike O'Brien - "The official statement is that we're going to try to keep it open."

 

There's no official statement that the Bookstore on West 25th is going to close, says the bright-eyed proprietor Mike O'Brien. But with green flyers spelling out the word SALE in the window, he's getting questions about that a lot lately. With his wavy grey hair and bushy beard, O'Brien could be a character in Moby Dick or some other novel about ships, their captains and the unforgiving sea. "People see the signs for 60 percent off all books, and they assume that's the case," he says. "The official statement is that we're going to try to keep it open."

 

One of only a few remaining independent, used booksellers in the region, the shop once known as Six Steps Down (named for a former half-basement location on Franklin Circle), has been a fixture in Ohio City for most of its 30 years. It's one of those bookstores that causes a certain type of customer to say you "have to be careful" when you go in there. Shelves and old wooden pear crates are stacked high and lined with the titles of yesteryear. There are chairs near the front windows.

 

In three decades, O'Brien has had evolving series of readings by poets and writers, as well as workshops. The third Saturday of every month poet Jim Lang hosts a poetry reading and distributes a "Bag-o-zine" collection of local poets' work on loose flyers. The fourth Tuesday of every month poet Gina Tabasso hosts a workshop in which poets sit in a circle to read and discuss each others' work.

 

His hospitality has earned plenty of good will. Last fall Lang put together an anthology, 30/25ths: Not Just Any Versary, to commemorate the bookstore's 30th year. About a year ago, friends helped organize a rent party which enabled him to pay off back taxes and get current with his rent. Just a few months later, though, he began to slip behind again.

 

O'Brien says the things that sell most quickly and for the best prices are "heavy- duty philosophy and psychology" books.

 

"I can't keep original-language Greek and Latin authors on the shelf," he says.

 

But the condo and restaurant boom that has given much of West 25th Street an economic boost in recent years hasn't rubbed off much on the store. O'Brien says he's "several months behind in rent," but quickly adds that his landlord has been "incredibly patient."

 

O'Brien is committed to the idea of a physical store with a door open to the street, even though he sees both the neighborhood and book sales generally going in a different direction. While the area around the West Side Market has flourished with new condominiums, restaurants and bars, he says that traffic doesn't keep the same hours as his bookstore, and that people who have come for a night out aren't in the book-buying mood. Meanwhile, bookstore chains have solidified their position in the market, and online sales have increased.

 

"Ironically I have sold books online to people in this very neighborhood," he says.

 

He's put books up for sale on Amazon and "more esoteric stuff" on Alibris, but that he'd "hate to give up the ability to help the neighborhood by getting books in the hands of people who are not great readers."

 

O'Brien says it wouldn't take much to turn things around: just two or three people a day buying two or three books each would put him "within shouting distance of solvency."

 

But at the moment all he knows is that he'll stay open through the month of April.

"We clearly would like to see several nice new restaurants here," said Tom Einhouse, who represents the Cleveland Theater District Development Corp., which is splitting the costs of the study with the Downtown Cleveland Alliance and Historic Gateway Neighborhood.

 

Restaurants? That's the one thing Euclid already has.

"While the area around the West Side Market has flourished with new condominiums, restaurants and bars, he says that traffic doesn't keep the same hours as his bookstore, and that people who have come for a night out aren't in the book-buying mood."

 

Here's a wacky idea - adjust your hours accordingly, and offer an evening event that might actually bring in some of the pre-bar crowd. Other merchants along 25th have collaborated and come up with successful ideas...

 

Sorry - I remember an article that came out during the "rent party" and I recall one of the times I stopped in the store. Nothing is really organized and basic customer service is non-existent. I don't have time (nor do most of my peers) to take a few hours to sift through unsorted inventory. I also don't appreciate getting scowled at because I interrupted the owner's reading during open hours. If I want to support local bookstores, I'll go to Crooked River in the Galleria, or Loganberry on Larchmere - they've managed to marry their passion for books with a little bit of business savvy.

Asking because I don't know... does this guy ever have events in his shop?  Like a little monthly "opening" with a featured local author or a reading with some wine/cheese/coffee?  He could even get one of the neighboring restaurants to cater and co-promote.  To me, it seems like their problem is lack of visibility and marketing and the fact that probably 95% of the neighborhood has never set foot inside the store.  The only time I ever hear about this shop is when it's on the verge of closing again!

 

Take a look at Music Saves on Waterloo.  Do you think anyone advised these young business people to open a record shop in the age of digital media?  They saw the niche in a neighborhood people flock to for music (Beachland Ballroom is a neighbor), probably got a good rental rate, marketed it appropriately, host events throughout the year and stay open late when there's a show next door.  I can't say whether their making a killing or not, but they've been open for a couple years now without having a "going out of business" fundraiser!

^Exactly. Just because someone has a passion for something (books, art, music) - it doesn't automatically qualify them for going into business.

If this guy's been at it for 30 years, he must have done something right.  It just sounds like he's let it go or has failed to adapt his model to the present day.

^ Particularly in a competitive market for book sales. With such a presence for online sales, and with the volume and orderly nature of a Border's, I think you really have to have a strong niche focus if you're going to survive as an independent bookseller.

 

I actually like the bookstore on 25th, but it is pretty haphazard, and you really have to invest some time to find what you want. This might appeal to a certain type of buying pattern (sometimes people enjoy spending a full afternoon at a bookstore), but the store is cramped and spending a couple of hours in there would make me feel claustrophobic. So, if I want something specific, it's usually Border's, if I want something quirky, it's the new store in Tremont and if I just want to casually spend a couple of hours relaxing in a bookstore ambiance, it's my favorite, Loganberry.

 

As Mayday pointed out, the proprietor has managed to create a store that is very easy to navigate but doesn't feel the least bit "sell-out" or corporate. Plus, they have a lot of great niche collections, including a tremendous collection of photography books and a pretty well-developed collection of Cleveland-focused books. It's a treat!

Sorry - I remember an article that came out during the "rent party" and I recall one of the times I stopped in the store. Nothing is really organized and basic customer service is non-existent. I don't have time (nor do most of my peers) to take a few hours to sift through unsorted inventory.

 

This is the exact same experience I have had when I have gone in there.  Some better customer service, organization and a small comfortable seating area would do wonders for the place.

Thats right Mayday.  I remember now that our experiences here were the same. (and OompaLoompa)  I had the scowl and all!  At this point after having rent partys and such, if he cant stay afloat, then it wasnt meant to be (anymore).  Allow a better bookstore to open in Ohio City, or at least somebody thats knows how to run a business.     

I guess I should also mention, when I went in when the nice lady was there, I did purchase a number of Cleveland books, after tripping many times.   

I thought this article from Detroit would be of interest, especially in light of the new study that's been commissioned of retail possibilities on lower Euclid.

 

 

Detroit core is ripe for stores

 

Louis Aguilar / The Detroit News

March 30, 2007

 

City leaders are wielding a new crop of data -- showing downtown Detroit is more affluent and populated than previously thought -- to aggressively lure more stores to the area, said Roger Penske, the auto magnate and chairman of the Downtown Detroit Partnership.

 

"There are more people living downtown, they earn more money than previously thought," Penske told 800 business and community leaders Wednesday at the Downtown Detroit Partnership Luncheon. "And guess what? The surrounding neighborhoods are hungry for more retail and service opportunities."

 

Among the facts: The $59,300 average income of downtown residents is 33 percent higher than shown in previous census data. Penske also noted that three market studies show downtown and adjacent neighborhoods have far more economic potential than census data indicates.

 

The studies were released in the past year by the University of Michigan, Katherine Beebe & Associates and most recently, Social Compact. Penske praised Washington-based Social Compact's "leading-edge technology" that used data such as private and public tax assessor records, credit card transactions and building permits to determine the area's economic worth.

 

Social Compact data maintains downtown could support a grocery store of more than 125,000 square feet. Currently, no store serving downtown Detroit is larger than 10,000 square feet, Social Compact said. (The average grocery store is the United States was 45,000 square feet in 2005, according to the Food Market Institute, an industry research group.)

 

In an earlier interview, Detroit Economic Growth Corp. President George Jackson acknowledged his agency is using the data to lure retailers.

 

"We're talking. We're talking," Jackson said. "And that's different from before, when we would call them and they would politely listen. Now they actually sit down and talk to us and are taking us seriously. They even call us now."

 

The data also is being used by Olympia Development, which controls significant downtown property. Olympia President Atanas Ilitch said last fall he hopes at least two retailers and an upscale grocery store will build on Ilitch-owned parking lots around Comerica Park baseball stadium and the Fox Theatre complex.

 

New retailers also could open in the stadium complex and the Fox. Those discussions still are under way, said Karen Cullen, spokeswoman for Ilitch Holdings, the parent company of Olympia Development, though she didn't know the specifics. Ilitch was out of town and unavailable for comment.

 

Thursday's luncheon was held primarily to promote the upcoming Detroit Belle Isle Grand Prix, which returns to the city after a five-year absence, and other summer events taking place downtown. The Grand Prix will be Labor Day weekend and is part of "Three Days in the D," along with the Detroit Jazz Festival, Detroit Football Classic and Michigan State Fair.

 

"We're excited about the Belle Isle race," Penske said. "It will be like a Super Bowl to us every year."

 

STATS:

 

74,300

Population of downtown and adjacent neighborhoods

 

80,500

Number of downtown workers

 

$59,300

Average income of downtown Detroit resident

 

$38.1 million

Purchasing power of residents of downtown and adjacent neighborhoods for groceries.

Source: Claritas and Social Compact

 

pretty much the same as the Key Bank initiative that indicated Cleveland has 580k residents and the spending power was higher than the government stated

Is that still being actively promoted to recruit retailers?  Has it had any success?

Is that still being actively promoted to recruit retailers?  Has it had any success?

 

I don't knw what its being used for other to show the Government that their stats were wrong.  I would think the city would conduct a second survey in 2009 so that when the 2010 census gets underway we can do what st. louis successfuly did and fight for more federal dollars.

From the 1/21/07 Elyria Chronicle-Telegram:

 

 

Can Midway Mall survive?

It promotes itself as a 1.1 million-square-foot super-regional center with more than 130 specialty stores. But with 37 empty storefronts totaling more than 175,000 square- feet of unused space, one can’t help but worry ...

Lisa Roberson

The Chronicle-Telegram

 

Six months after Centro Watt bought Midway Mall, businesses and customers are still wondering what the Australian-based company will be able to do that two previous owners couldn’t...

 

 

Contact Lisa Roberson at (440) 329-7121 or at [email protected].

 

FULL ARTICLE AT: http://www.chroniclet.com/2007_Archive/01-21-07/Daily%20Pages/012107head5.html

 

From the 3/11/07 Elyria Chronicle-Telegram:

 

 

With Dillard’s to close, some ask … is Midway Mall in crisis?

Joe Medici | The Chronicle-Telegram

 

ELYRIA — While the closure of a large anchor store usually doesn’t bode well for a shopping mall, it doesn’t necessarily mean the beginning of the end for a retail center, experts in retailing and urban planning say.

 

Midway Mall and the community were jolted last week when Dillard’s, one of four major anchor stores in the mall, announced it would close the store because it was underperforming...

 

 

Contact Bette Pearce at 329-7148 or [email protected].

 

FULL ARTICLE AT: http://www.chroniclet.com/2007/03/11/with-dillard%e2%80%99s-to-close-some-ask-is-midway-mall-in-crisis/

 

MESSAGE EDITED - NO LINK.

From the 4/12/07 Elyria Chronicle-Telegram:

 

 

Suits size up the mall

Executives from Midway owner Centro Watt say ‘exciting plans’ afoot

Bette Pearce and Shawn Foucher

The Chronicle-Telegram

 

ELYRIA — They weren’t your ordinary shoppers.

 

A dozen people in suits, who were earlier seen taking measurements, snapping pictures and pointing to the ceiling in front of J.C. Penney, were huddled inside the Midway Mall offices Wednesday afternoon.

 

When they came out, they didn’t have a lot to say.

 

Three consultants said the mall’s new owners, Centro Watt, are working on “exciting plans” but wouldn’t elaborate...

 

Contact Bette Pearce at 329-7148 or [email protected].

Contact Shawn Foucher at 329-7197 or [email protected].

 

FULL ARTICLE AT: http://www.chroniclet.com/2007/04/12/suits-size-up-the-mall/

 

Someone really NEEDS to shut that mall down. It's worse than Randall Park.

Not really a greater Cleveland trend, but apparently a trend nonetheless:

 

Home Depot, Wal-Mart roll out smaller stores

By Karen Jacobs

 

Wed May 2, 12:22 PM ET

 

The biggest of the big-box retailers are looking to get a lot smaller as they try to bring in more customers in areas where mega-buildings are neither practical nor affordable.

 

Discounter Wal-Mart Stores Inc., the world's largest retailer, and home improvement industry leader Home Depot Inc. are rolling out stores that are much smaller as their bigger warehouse stores near a saturation point in the United States.

 

This year, Wal-Mart said it was changing the layout of its Neighborhood Market stores, which are typically about 39,000 square feet, to add more frozen food and bakery items and make over the health and beauty departments.

 

"We are tailoring specific Neighborhood Markets to provide the type of product mix that will be customized," Wal-Mart spokesman Dave Tovar said.

 

Wal-Mart, which opened its first Neighborhood Market in 1998, now has about 112 of these smaller stores and plans to open 15 to 20 of them over the next year. Wal-Mart supercenters average 187,000 square feet.

 

"The need to continue to grow the company and open up stores in places where they're not is what's driving this," said George Whalin, president of Retail Management Consultants.

 

Last month, Home Depot opened stores that measure 28,600 to 50,000 square feet, smaller than its average 105,000-square- foot format, in California, spokesman Anthony Wilbert said.

 

The home improvement chain will also roll out small-market stores in Tennessee in July, and plans to open a 235,000- square-foot super store in New Jersey next year.

 

Whalin said smaller stores make sense for Home Depot but pose challenges for Wal-Mart.

 

Wal-Mart "is so used to having a bigger palate to paint on and a bigger space to do things in that I think (a smaller format) is difficult," Whalin said.

 

He said stores in the 40,000-square-foot range require retailers to slim down their offerings. "I don't know that (Wal-Mart) is convinced they can do it right," Whalin said.

 

But he added that Bentonville, Arkansas-based Wal-Mart might put more emphasis on smaller stores now that Britain's Tesco Plc (TSCO.L) plans to launch U.S. grocery stores.

 

Tesco, Britain's biggest retailer, will open small grocery stores in the United States this year to focus on ready-to-eat meals and fresh and environmentally friendly products.

 

At Home Depot, Whalin said smaller stores can work in urban areas, particularly if they are served by independent hardware stores that can't offer the Atlanta chain's pricing and selection.

 

"There's a part of America that needs the kind of a hardware store and home center that Home Depot operates," Whalin said.

 

The New York Post on Monday reported that analysts say Wal-Mart is mulling stores as small as 20,000 square feet. When asked whether Wal-Mart was planning even smaller versions, Tovar said the chain was currently focused on its 40,000-square-foot format.

 

Whalin said he would be "real surprised" if Wal-Mart set up a 20,000 square-foot store.

 

Home Depot shares were up 38 cents to $38.81 in noon trading on the New York Stock Exchange on Wednesday, while Wal-Mart gained 33 cents to $48.66.

^ There is a Home Depot like that near me in Chicago(Lincoln Park)....entrance right off the sidewalk, 2 floors and a parking deck on top.  They kinda miss the mark on the details ....they only have those little flimsy plastic bags, which a) everything they sell certainly does not fit in them and b) some of the things you buy poke right through them.  Kinda sucks when you are walking or taking PT.  Just goes to show that they don't know urban markets that well.  Still better than a big box in a parking lot though. See a pic of the urban store here:

 

http://westnorth.com/boxes/homedepot-tb.html

Where's Great Lakes, Richmond, The Galleria, Tower City, Parmatown, Legacy Village, University Square/Cedar center, Great Northern, Crocker Park, Midway, Summit?....Damn we have more malls than I thought or would like to think about.

______________________________________________________________________________

 

Scorecard for local shopping centers

Posted by Henry J. Gomez May 14, 2007 17:37PM

Categories: Business

Perhaps we exaggerate the death of the shopping mall. But it is safe to say that many are on life support.

 

The good malls find the right prescription for survival. The bad linger with teases of hope -- an outlet store here, a dollar store there -- and taunt us as eyesores of their once-bustling neighborhoods. And in Northeast Ohio, there is a little of both.

 

More at cleveland.com http://blog.cleveland.com/earlyedition/2007/05/scorecard_for_local_shopping_c.html

 

Mov, Cleveland is right up there with LA, Atlanta and Miami when it comes to malls.  We have one of the most saturated areas in the country.

"retail competition has increased on East Side with First & Main in Hudson,"

 

Okay can we just establish that once you're south of I-480, you cannot regard yourself as either east or west side? Brunstucky is not west side, Hudson is not east side - they're just "out there".

^i second that motion.

Yeah, I thought that was sort of weird. I don't think anyone there ever considered themselves "East Side."

 

It's physically closer and more well-connected to Akron. It takes 20 minutes to get to downtown Akron and 45 to 1 hour to downtown Cleveland. Is Akron now a suburb of Cleveland, too?

 

 

^Depending on traffic (read: weekend), you can make it from Hudson to downtown Cleveland in 30-35 minutes - especially via the Turnpike's ramp to I-77.

Well, that's cheating!

Yeah, I thought that was sort of weird. I don't think anyone there ever considered themselves "East Side."

 

It's physically closer and more well-connected to Akron. It takes 20 minutes to get to downtown Akron and 45 to 1 hour to downtown Cleveland. Is Akron now a suburb of Cleveland, too?

 

 

I can't be sure, but when i worked as SOHIO, we had some historical maps (1880s/1890s) on greater Cleveland mapped out from public square where Cleveland was mapped out like current day DC or  Atlanta; the area's were labeled NE, SE, NW & SW.

 

I think that is why places like solon, macedonia nordonia are considered "southeast Cleveland" and willoughby, Mentor, M-o-L at "northeast Cleveland".

 

IIRC, anythong south of 480 is considered, well, "southeast" or "southwest" which is why 'burbs like garfield hts, maple hts, bedford with Independence on the east and seven hills on the west.  The west side was a bit more complicated.

 

I wish I had kept those maps!  I wonder if they were sent to the library??

Yeah, I thought that was sort of weird. I don't think anyone there ever considered themselves "East Side."

 

It's physically closer and more well-connected to Akron. It takes 20 minutes to get to downtown Akron and 45 to 1 hour to downtown Cleveland. Is Akron now a suburb of Cleveland, too?

 

 

 

It's been a Cleveland suburb for over 30 years now, where yooou been?

 

I consider parma West side as well as Berea and Middleburg heights. Independence is border country but generally anything south of 480 I consider Southside, even if we have no official South side.

That doesn't even make sense! Cleveland is 28 miles away and Akron is 14!

 

According to wikipedia: [Hudson] is an affluent exurban community and is part of the Akron, Ohio Metropolitan Statistical Area according to the U.S. Census Bureau.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudson,_Ohio

That doesn't even make sense! Cleveland is 28 miles away and Akron is 14!

 

According to wikipedia: [Hudson] is an affluent exurban community and is part of the Akron, Ohio Metropolitan Statistical Area according to the U.S. Census Bureau.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudson,_Ohio

 

Whateva!!

Elyria just recently passed issue 7 which will be giving the city a brand new high school. With a new high school, this could have an affect on midway mall. it could be the first step into revitalizing the city and what it provides. And as for lovesit's quote about shutting it down, you need to take a closer look at the mall, because even with no enhancements, it is still a nice place to shop.

^^It's nice if you like getting shot at in the parking lot or having your car stolen at knife-point.

^^It's nice if you like getting shot at in the parking lot or having your car stolen at knife-point.

 

That has never happened to me going there. And by the way Randall Park mall is WAAAAYY worse that Midway.

wow.... Lovesit. are you mistaking elyria for compton or are you just a coward?

wow.... Lovesit. are you mistaking elyria for compton or are you just a coward?

 

I'm no coward, I'd just prefer to shop somewhere that isn't a known gang hangout. I was okay seeing security breaking up fights and people running out of stores with stolen merchandise all the time, but once I saw blood being cleaned up in front of Sears, that's when I knew that mall was a hellhole that needs to be shut down.

I thought that Cleveland adopted Akron as a suburb as soon as we drafted LeBron.  No? :wave:

Specialty shops spread out to the suburbs

Wednesday, May 16, 2007

Debbi Snook

Plain Dealer Reporter

 

The spirit of the West Side Market continues to take root in the suburbs - and yummy roots they are. Shops featuring rich baked goods, rare produce and ethnic specialties - not always found outside the city - are popping up in all directions. Here's a look at three newer stores:

 

More at cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com

^  :roll:

Now the Lorain Police are using the mall to dump undesirables across the city limits in E-town?!?

 

Cops gave man ride to Midway before fall

Joe Medici | The Chronicle-Telegram

 

Post edited 9-4-09 to comply with terms of use

 

Contact Joe Medici at 329-7152 or [email protected]

 

 

Now the Lorain Police are using the mall to dump undesirables across the city limits in E-town?!?

 

 

"...Ken Reyes, 38, of Elyria,..."

 

 

 

 

Elyria just recently passed issue 7 which will be giving the city a brand new high school.

 

It is about time.

 

What is the future plans for the old Washington building?

In the Morning Journal, it said the guy asked for a ride to Wilkes Villa (Elyria's worst PJ's), but Lorain PD would only take him as far as the Mall because they couldn't go that far into Elyria.  How does dropping a drunk at the mall parking lot do any good?  Wouldn't it be better to transport him back to the station and have someone pick him up?  I'm sure this loser will find some attorney to sue the city now...

 

Re: EHS Washington Building (from board of elections):

 

Issue 7

$ 45,000,000 ( 2.87 mills ) for 28 years , commencing in 2007 , first due in calendar year 2008 ,

Elyria City School District (Property Tax Levy) to construct, furnish, & equip a new Elyria high school & acquire, clear, equip & otherwise improve its sites; rehabilitate, renovate, remodel & otherwise improve the existing Washington building, & improve school district buildings

 

And (from the PD before the election):

 

The high school consists of several building additions with the oldest structure - the Washington Building - dating to 1894. The high school's problems include cracks in the foundation, outdated electrical wiring and heating system and a smaller-than-needed media center.

 

The proposed two-story, 1,800-student high school would be built at the current high school site at West Sixth Street. The historic Washington Building would not be demolished but instead renovated for classrooms.

 

In the Morning Journal, it said the guy asked for a ride to Wilkes Villa (Elyria's worst PJ's), but Lorain PD would only take him as far as the Mall because they couldn't go that far into Elyria.  How does dropping a drunk at the mall parking lot do any good?  Wouldn't it be better to transport him back to the station and have someone pick him up?  I'm sure this loser will find some attorney to sue the city now...

 

 

good luck with that. unless they threw him into the ravine that will be hard to pin on the cops.

 

next time he should go out on the town with this guy:

 

 

^ whew - now that is drunk!

 

at least they could have gotten the guy a burger from the food court  :wink:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyRm1vL77ps