My reaction to seeing the list of stores, especially comparing it to the (partial) opening list, was that while most of them certainly do not have the same prestige or pricetags of a number of the original stores, they serve a purpose and serve a market nonetheless.  While it is a shame that many of the original stores that are long gone were unique to our region and even state (and not to mention that some have since opened up in markets with higher perceived-levels of wealth), the stores that have come in to fill the place of the Benettons and Ballys certainly are just as relevant.

 

While working downtown this summer, I would pass through Tower City at different times of the day and the stores I saw never seemed any less busy than in the average suburban mall.  Needless to say, it's absolutely teeming with people after work and on game nights.  And 100% occupancy, even if it's just for the Christmas season, is 100% occupancy nonetheless.  I suspect truly dead mall such as Randall Park, Euclid Square, or even Westgate in its last decade of existence don't or didn't even come close to this.

Higbee's is also missing from the list...and some others that I think were original... Benetton, Nature Company, Barney's NY, Record Town and Body Shop. 

 

Record Town is listed as "Tower City Record Town." I also recall the Rand McNally Store and the Great American Train Store, but I don't remember if either was original.

Tear down Tower City  :?  Yeah, ok... :roll:  Tower City is not your typical shopping mall by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Maybe placing all of the high end retailers in a transportation hub is a bad idea and they'd be better suited for storefronts throughout downtown.  I can only speak for Paris, but Gare du Nord and the Les Halles clusterf*ck are malls with direct access to trains but you wouldn't be looking for Louis Vuitton in those places.  Oh, and another thing, European cities have security guards at the doors of very store to prevent shoplifting.  Maybe we need a few of them if tenants and customers don't feel safe in TC.  I personally have nothing to hide from a guard when shopping.

 

Making TC successful seems like a no brainer but we like to make things complicated in this city...

"Oh, and another thing, European cities have security guards at the doors of very store to prevent shoplifting.  Maybe we need a few of them if tenants and customers don't feel safe in TC."

 

That's also in NYC, Chicago, etc. and I wholeheartedly support the idea. If Stark's plans go through, it would behoove them to have a strong security presence in and outside the retail spots.

I've always firmly believed that, god forbid, if there was ever any real incident in Tower City the security guards would be leading the charge out the door a la George Costanza. They could use a real upgrade.

I've always firmly believed that, god forbid, if there was ever any real incident in Tower City the security guards would be leading the charge out the door a la George Costanza. They could use a real upgrade.

 

there was a real incident in Tower City about four years ago. You try controlling a mob of people (whether black/white/young/old/rich/poor) numbering 300+ with only a walkie talkie.

^That would be the "Free Days" weekend... aside from the riot (and gunshots) at Tower City, it was a decent time (free admission to the Rock Hall, Terminal Tower observation deck, etc.). I've always said they need to have a police state in there based on logistics alone.

^don't forget the free movies!

 

(mr. pope was in tower city that day)

IIRC, the riot basically stemmed from the free movies (filled to capacity and they had to turn away mobs of angry teens).

 

I also remember walking into the Terminal Tower portico and some stupid vaudeville band was blaring so f#cking loud that the cops couldn't hear on their phones/walkie-talkies. I had a feeling that it would best to get out of dodge by early afternoon. What the h#ll were they thinking?

Honestly, I wish they would tear down Tower City. Or the Galleria. Or both. I friggin hate shopping malls.

oh...the pain.

"Oh, and another thing, European cities have security guards at the doors of very store to prevent shoplifting.  Maybe we need a few of them if tenants and customers don't feel safe in TC."

 

That's also in NYC, Chicago, etc. and I wholeheartedly support the idea. If Stark's plans go through, it would behoove them to have a strong security presence in and outside the retail spots.

Many stores in Europe, NYC etc. do have security, but the security is not there for YOU.  It's in place for the inventory.  In Europe the security/doorman are there for etiquette reminders.  Reminding you to remove your hat, watch your language, if raining to keep your umbrella inside of a store provided sleeve, etc.

 

Now that this rule is in place and we have a larger and growing residential population within walking distance, will we see an increase in the number of upscale stores move into tower city.

 

That store list is incorrect, we never had a versace, Country Road Australia but we did have a BARNEY'S, Calvin Klein, Structure (one of the first) & Liz Claiborne.  Get your stores right folks!

 

Bring in a midsized nordstroms and neimans and bring back Barneys and a Barney's coop

^Tower City definitely had a Country Road Australia.  I have vivid memories of wondering WTF it was when a young teenager.  I must have been hoping for kangaroos and boomerangs or something.

^Tower City definitely had a Country Road Australia.  I have vivid memories of wondering WTF it was when a young teenager.  I must have been hoping for kangaroos and boomerangs or something.

 

Never heard of that place in my life. Googled it, turns out they don't have any stores in the US anymore....(smells like a banana republic if you ask me)

^Tower City definitely had a Country Road Australia.  I have vivid memories of wondering WTF it was when a young teenager.  I must have been hoping for kangaroos and boomerangs or something.

 

For the life of me, I cannot place a CRA in Tower City!  On the current map, can you tell me where it was located?

 

 

It used to be near the Museum Company store.

I know it was. My ex used to work for them.

I don't believe this.  I still don't remember this.  In my mind im picturing all the stores in the Skylight side of the mall.  I see the two story Gucci, I see Fendi, I see Liz Claiborne, I see Barney's, I see Calvin Klein, etc...ugh!  I do not recall seeing or shopping in CRA, not that I liked there stuff.

It wasn't on that side. It was closer to the Public Square side, sort of above Record Town, I think.

This store didn't exist in TowerCity.  Enough said!  :evil:

I still have a shirt from there. Its so old now. I put it on when I am painting something in the house.

This store didn't exist in TowerCity.  Enough said!  :evil:

 

Memory loss is a sign of caffeine deprivation... and getting OLD! :whip:

Country Road Austrailia?  It was on the first level near the front, next to the Record Town.  When it closed, a lot of the sales staff joined me at JCrew

Country Road Austrailia?  It was on the first level near the front, next to the Record Town.  When it closed, a lot of the sales staff joined me at JCrew

 

It's killing me that I cannot remember this store!

This store didn't exist in TowerCity.  Enough said!  :evil:

 

Memory loss is a sign of caffeine deprivation... and getting OLD! :whip:

 

Sweetie, do you remember the first thing I ever said to you on this forum?

 

I think I'm going to have to edit that or take it back all together!

 

Caffeine deprived, yes.  Old, no!  I'm "seasoned" damn it!

Country Road Austrailia?  It was on the first level near the front, next to the Record Town.  When it closed, a lot of the sales staff joined me at JCrew

 

It's killing me that I cannot remember this store!

Thats because you can't see beyond Gucci, Fendi, Liz Claiborne, Barney's, and Calvin Klein!  :-P

Country Road Austrailia?  It was on the first level near the front, next to the Record Town.  When it closed, a lot of the sales staff joined me at JCrew

 

It's killing me that I cannot remember this store!

Thats because you can't see beyond Gucci, Fendi, Liz Claiborne, Barney's, and Calvin Klein!  :-P

 

Hush! I didn't shop at Liz Claiborne (although the guy that did their windows was a cutie) or Calvin Klein.  I also patronized Politix (I was even in a promo campaign), Joan & Disney, H20.  I'd take my nephew and Neice to the Disney or Warner Bros stores and we loved Frudruckers.

 

Also, Victoria's Secret was not an original store.  I think our Structure store was the first or one of the first free standing stucture stores, that branched out from the limited.

Okay, lets try valiantly to steer this somewhere away from MTS's memory and where he shops.

^ Are you suggesting a new thread topic?

I think our Structure store was the first or one of the first free standing stucture stores, that branched out from the limited.

 

Couldn't be the first....I'd bet my left nut that Les put the first one at Columbus City Center or Northland.

 

before Structure...It was men's EXP on the 2nd floor of the Galleria women's Express.  It's so weird to go into the Galleria today and peer into those old stores that look exactly the same...except no merchandise.  Like the whole mall was vacated in a day.

Which makes me ill. How do people get these jobs?

 

Do people really sit around a table and pass money back and forth and say: "You're right! The reason people don't come here is that we call ourselves the Convention and Visitors Bureau. But, if we called ourselves Positively Cleveland! why, they'd flock here!"

 

Man, the audacity of that @sshole! How do THEY get jobs?! How the F does he keep his job?! His entire job is complaining about stuff!

 

Which makes me ill. How do people get these jobs?

 

Do people really sit around a table and pass money back and forth and say: "You're right! The reason people don't come here is that we call ourselves the Convention and Visitors Bureau. But, if we called ourselves Positively Cleveland! why, they'd flock here!"

 

Man, the audacity of that @sshole! How do THEY get jobs?! How the F does he keep his job?! His entire job is complaining about stuff!

 

 

Then why aren't YOU complaining about HIM, other than here?

I actually agree with him. Not the overall tone of his commentary; I think he's generally a cranky old man, and there's a much more mature and intelligent way to make a point than he does. But I agree that downtown isn't a center for retail activity like you'd see in the cities he listed.

 

I think that if downtown wants to change this image, they'll have to do a better job than there is right now, man. I'm sorry. I hate to side with Feagler with this one, but it's true. I think, honestly, I'm agreeing with him more and more, and I hate to be negative. But if people are fine with downtown the way it is, I can't change that. People want what they want. But if a truly urban center of activity and vitality is what people want, downtown needs to seriously step it up.

I have an issue more with the fact that he's ignoring the fact that there are at least two developers working to bring retail back to the streets of downtown. It doesn't take a rocket scientist, or Dick Feagler to see that Downtown Cleveland is not a retail hot spot like it once was, or what you find in many other cities. 

I have an issue more with the fact that he's ignoring the fact that there are at least two developers working to bring retail back to the streets of downtown. It doesn't take a rocket scientist, or Dick Feagler to see that Downtown Cleveland is not a retail hot spot like it once was, or what you find in many other cities.  

 

Exactly.  He's spitting out the "same old, same old", without of mention of the changes that are on the horizon.

I think that true change can be seen in time. I don't think that any of us can definitely say that these retail developments will definitely succeed. I want them to. Do I think that the Cleveland market will sustain the retail and housing that is coming to downtown? Again, I hope so. But I don't think we can say anything until that retail has been around for a few years.

 

But I don't want to be a naysayer, so I'm definitely hoping for the best here!

I think that true change can be seen in time. I don't think that any of us can definitely say that these retail developments will definitely succeed. I want them to. Do I think that the Cleveland market will sustain the retail and housing that is coming to downtown? Again, I hope so. But I don't think we can say anything until that retail has been around for a few years.

 

But I don't want to be a naysayer, so I'm definitely hoping for the best here!

 

Thats not the point.  The point is he isn't providing balanced or accurate commentary!

I think that true change can be seen in time. I don't think that any of us can definitely say that these retail developments will definitely succeed. I want them to. Do I think that the Cleveland market will sustain the retail and housing that is coming to downtown? Again, I hope so. But I don't think we can say anything until that retail has been around for a few years.

 

But I don't want to be a naysayer, so I'm definitely hoping for the best here!

 

Thats not the point.  The point is he isn't providing balanced or accurate commentary!

 

Exactly!

Yeah. I guess. I think he's as cynical and cranky as I am. :)

Yeah. I guess. I think he's as cynical and cranky as I am. :)

 

sad.....condisdering you're only a whippersnapper!

Tell me about it! :( Years of pain and bitterness, mi amigo.

another new bookstore in cleveland, Suspect Thoughts (they publish too).  It's off the beaten path at Clark & W.49th owned by a couple that moved here from Oakland.  They've got a 10-12 spot car park next door.  Nice place on the inside and it sounds as if they we be hosting lots of events.  the selection is about half queer with the rest consisting of political, occult, and other fun stuff.  they've got some great t-shirts from a local printing company.  be sure to check it out if you are ever in/passing through the neighborhood.

Agreed that his commentary isn't always balanced, but, IMHO, it takes all ends of the spectrum to bring about change -- the complainers bring the issue forward, the quiet sit by and let the problem happen, and somewhere in the middle are those wo work for change.

^^Cool. I worry they won't have much visibility in that location though. They'd be better off in Gordon Square/Detroit-Shoreway.

Agreed that his commentary isn't always balanced, but, IMHO, it takes all ends of the spectrum to bring about change -- the complainers bring the issue forward, the quiet sit by and let the problem happen, and somewhere in the middle are those wo work for change.

 

That's an awesome quote.

Agreed that his commentary isn't always balanced, but, IMHO, it takes all ends of the spectrum to bring about change -- the complainers bring the issue forward, the quiet sit by and let the problem happen, and somewhere in the middle are those wo work for change.

 

Is Feagler bringing any new issues forward?  Maybe what so irritates us is that he is beating a dead horse here.  The time for complaining about Downtown retail is far past.  Put up or shut up, I say!  Either shop Downtown for what is there, open a store, rehab a space, do something, anything, or just shut up and let those who are doing something go forward instead of panning them or ignoring them and complaining like nobody else notices the problem.  He is insulting our intelligence, and the efforts that alot of people are putting into the problem.  He's not telling anyone, even clueless suburbanites, anything they don't know, and alot of what he says isn't even accurate.  Shouldn't that be the cardinal sin of journalism?

I mean .. he's not really a journalist. He's a commentator. I believe there's a difference.

 

And I agree. Oftentimes, it's easier to point out the bad than to actually figure out a plan and do something about it. But that's the job of a critic, I guess. They can't do, so they criticize so that other people who actually want to do something or have the power to, do.

another new bookstore in cleveland, Suspect Thoughts (they publish too).  It's off the beaten path at Clark & W.49th owned by a couple that moved here from Oakland.  They've got a 10-12 spot car park next door.  Nice place on the inside and it sounds as if they we be hosting lots of events.  the selection is about half queer with the rest consisting of political, occult, and other fun stuff.  they've got some great t-shirts from a local printing company.  be sure to check it out if you are ever in/passing through the neighborhood.

 

^^Cool. I worry they won't have much visibility in that location though. They'd be better off in Gordon Square/Detroit-Shoreway.

 

Yeah but you gotta start somewhere.  :-)

 

This could be the start of changes in that area.  I get the feeling some people can't afford OC, Tremont & Detroit Shoreway, and I sense, and I could be very wrong, that people are smartening up and moving into areas that next on the "hit list" of returning neighborhoods.  There seem to be pockets of people doing home improvements in that area as well.

I believe that Feagler would still be categorized as a journalist, even though he writes editorials.

I think that Dick Feagler is curmudgeonly, yes, but he is not closed off to new ideas. That disclaimer notwithstanding, what I found most disturbing about his article on Sunday was his view of women as people who are interested in nothing but shopping and eating.

 

He mentioned one woman, whom he regarded as being very sophisticated, who said she'd be willing to live downtown, but then wondered what she would do when her husband was at work? Eat? Well, what about going for a walk, reading a book, volunteering at an animal shelter, going to school, or getting a paying job herself?

 

And are conventions really attended only by men who bring along wives who do nothing but shop while they're attending conventions with their husbands? Don't a lot of women attend conventions on their own nowadays, and don't many of them stay home and attend to their own lives while their husbands are off conventioning?

 

I would like to see more retail downtown as well, but not merely to cater to visiting droves of reckless consumers. Really, what kind of city do we want this one to be?

 

 

I think that Dick Feagler is curmudgeonly, yes, but he is not closed off to new ideas. That disclaimer notwithstanding, what I found most disturbing about his article on Sunday was his view of women as people who are interested in nothing but shopping and eating.

 

He mentioned one woman, whom he regarded as being very sophisticated, who said she'd be willing to live downtown, but then wondered what she would do when her husband was at work? Eat? Well, what about going for a walk, reading a book, volunteering at an animal shelter, going to school, or getting a paying job herself?

 

And are conventions really attended only by men who bring along wives who do nothing but shop while they're attending conventions with their husbands? Don't a lot of women attend conventions on their own nowadays, and don't many of them stay home and attend to their own lives while their husbands are off conventioning?

 

I would like to see more retail downtown as well, but not merely to cater to visiting droves of reckless consumers. Really, what kind of city do we want this one to be?

 

 

 

I agree with the first point.  Yes there are alot of conventions were spouses/S.O. tag along.  I have to go London this weekend for our European corporate meeting, half the attendes are bring a spouse.  There are a lot of women who are "stay at home moms" or just don't work.  Hell my Aunt hasn't worked since '64 my mom quit her job in '78/79.

Really, what kind of city do we want this one to be?

 

Good question. One that needs a definitive answer, I think.

It should be one that takes money from "reckless consumers" that have the money to spend.  :wink: