Aren't they both owned by Au Bon Pain?  Why not just go there instead?  I never thought much of Au Bon but I don't think much

of Panera either so I don't really go either place, maybe they're similar?

 

I would go there if they extended their hours beyond the 9-5 M-F shift :(.  I work at Case.

Aren't they both owned by Au Bon Pain?  Why not just go there instead?  I never thought much of Au Bon but I don't think much

of Panera either so I don't really go either place, maybe they're similar?

 

Panera Bread is a bit better than Au Bon Pain, in my opinion.

Oh but at Case you have the wonderful BRB building for fine cuisine.  Not.

 

Seriously, with the new health line you could come downtown for lunch if you could squeak 1:15 out for lunch occasionally,

though you'd either have to take it to go or eat really fast.

Aren't they both owned by Au Bon Pain?  Why not just go there instead?  I never thought much of Au Bon but I don't think much

of Panera either so I don't really go either place, maybe they're similar?

 

I would go there if they extended their hours beyond the 9-5 M-F shift :( .  I work at Case.

 

There is one on Carneige/101 street catty-corner from the intercontinental, right?

taking the Friday evening CO1651 from Laguardia (and their vast array of eating options) to Cleveland every other week for nearly two years I ate enough Au Bon Pain for a lifetime.  If I never see another one of those places I will be happy.

Aren't they both owned by Au Bon Pain?  Why not just go there instead?  I never thought much of Au Bon but I don't think much

of Panera either so I don't really go either place, maybe they're similar?

 

I would go there if they extended their hours beyond the 9-5 M-F shift :( .  I work at Case.

 

There is one on Carneige/101 street catty-corner from the intercontinental, right?

 

Yeah, but they have crappy hours too.  I'm more talking weekend business here.  We usually don't leave campus for lunch.  We are indentured servants remember?  :whip:  I'm just grumpy cause I didn't realize Panera had left Tower City until a few weeks ago (clearly I'm observant).

taking the Friday evening CO1651 from Laguardia (and their vast array of eating options) to Cleveland every other week for nearly two years I ate enough Au Bon Pain for a lifetime.  If I never see another one of those places I will be happy.

 

I love that place.  Those cheese danishes are like crack to me.  I can eat like four of them in the span of a few minutes.

Jones Day is actually a major legal firm, one of the world's biggest and most well paid, and is

headquartered in downtown Cleveland.  It is also one of the reasons that the city will not

allow Burke to be redeveloped, as a number of Jones Day's clients travel straight to Burke and then

limo to the North Point building on East 9th and Lakeshore to do business. 

 

And I plan on attending the Jones New York store later today, as I noticed some

pretty good sales when I walked by there this morning. 

 

Oh I know... as I said, I've had enough of those cheese danishes and chicken cesar wraps for a lifetime.  As a matter of fact at one point I wondered if I was going to turn into a cheese danish and chicken cesar wrap.

Oh I know... as I said, I've had enough of those cheese danishes and chicken cesar wraps for a lifetime.  As a matter of fact at one point I wondered if I was going to turn into a cheese danish and chicken cesar wrap.

I dont like their food...just the "sweets".

Panera is, or at least was recently, headquartered in Warren.  Right next to the worlds most magnificent McDonalds.

 

Edit:  Maybe I was thinking of the main local franchise guy.

Panera is, or at least was recently, headquartered in Warren.  Right next to the worlds most magnificent McDonalds.

 

I thought their HQ was in St. Louis?

Their HQ is in Richmond Heights, MO.

^ An inner burb of St. Louis

Now if only J. Crew and Banana Republic would come back to TC.....  And what's up with no more Panera there?  Why, God, why!?!?!?!? :(

 

the Banana Republic was the worst loss. Panera always seemed busy, so I do not get that either . I am not a huge panera fan, but it worked in a pinch

Aren't they both owned by Au Bon Pain? Why not just go there instead? I never thought much of Au Bon but I don't think much

of Panera either so I don't really go either place, maybe they're similar?

 

i know why you dont go there! as we are the two "chowhounders" on this site, i think this is why we dont tend to fund the satanic panera: it goes back to ch founder jim leff's classic rant, "The Evil That is Panera or Why Adam Smith’s Invisible Hand Reaches for Lousy Chow."

 

it's a shame the link to that is broken, so i can't find the old print thread anymore, but i did find leff talking about it on the npr radio show 'open source:'

 

http://www.radioopensource.org/the-end-of-free-will/

 

best i can say is, of the two, at least au bon advertises cleveland on their airport/shop windows.

 

 

 

hey mrnyc.  I don't boycott Panera or anything, I just really, really don't like their food.  When they first came in to Tower City I used to get the greek salad occasionally until I found out it had over 50g of fat in it, which is almost my entire allotted fat intake for one day.  Most of their sandwiches and soups just taste like a big salt lick to me.  Just not appealing.  I had to go there with a co-worker about a month ago and got a cup of soup and the rest of the day I couldn't drink enough water to satisfy my thirst, it was so salty.

 

As for breakfast, I don't eat bagels or sweet rolls or anything.  I probably have a bagel once a year.  If I did want one, I might go there.  Them being a chain is just another reason for me not to go there.

although i believe in what leff sez there i don't boycott it either, in fairness it's just another chain -- i just try to avoid it in place of something local whenever i can. i don't go out of my way for it...nor for places like it. if the food were better i might.

there is no national food chain that I think is good. Seriously not one.

 

There are some local and regional chains which are (and I can count them on my hand with fingers to spare)...but I will still support the local guy and gal first.

 

 

I got really sick eating at Panera once, and haven't been able to so much as look at one since.

there is no national food chain that I think is good. Seriously not one.

 

There are some local and regional chains which are (and I can count them on my hand with fingers to spare)...but I will still support the local guy and gal first.

 

 

 

Seriously?! Not even Chipotle?

I don't get the luv for chipotle.  I also think their food is basically nothing but super salty.  I mean, beans, rice, what's so creative?  I know they're really popular but every time I've eaten there I'm just like, "meh."

oh please lord not the chipotle discussion again..

oh please lord not the chipotle discussion again..

I know, right!

 

_{Visual courtesy of MayDay}

there is no national food chain that I think is good. Seriously not one.

 

Hey, nobody likes a food snob. There are definitely some good chains restaurants!

I did not say there were no good chains, just no good national ones.

i hate to do this wishing stuff, but i would love to see a Heidi's Deli somewhere downtown. I know theres one in independence but i dont have a car nor the money for gas if i did have one to drive there from downtown.

I did not say there were no good chains, just no good national ones.

 

OK I was gonna say, Bob Evan's is grate!

somebody on UO is likely excited about this:

 

via November 5 Plain Dealer (paper edition):

Tower City Gets Jones New York

Jones New York,a high-end women's retailer of apparel, shoes, hosiery, outerwear, and accessories, has opened a 4,400 square foot store on the second floor of Tower City Center in downtown Cleveland in the former Ann Taylor space next to Nine West.  New York based Jones Apparel Group Inc., which sells the Jones New York brand, also operates 142 outlet stores nationwide, including on in Aurora.

Already posted upthread :-)

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,9505.0/msg,339233.html

Not exactly shocking news but 1. the Gorant/American Greetings store in the Galleria is closing (huge markdowns right now) and the Galleria is now closed on Saturdays and Sundays. :-|

the Galleria is now closed on Saturdays and Sundays. :-|

 

I cannot imagine how that could help anything.  In way too many cases, the survival strategy for downtown Cleveland businesses is to not be open.  That is counterproductive, as it tells potential customers to go away and not come back.  I've never seen restaurants or convenience stores close as early as they do in downtown Cleveland, not anywhere, and it is positively senseless.  As for the Galleria, they would be better off to cover the exterior in brown paper bags than to close the place on weekends.  Maybe they're trying to move it to Florida, like in Major League.

 

If downtown Cleveland cannot offer normal human amenities (restaurants open at dinner time, shopping open on shopping days, convenience stores open when people are off work) it makes us look not only poor but determined to stay poor.  There is one and only one way to develop a customer base and that is to be there when needed, period.  Do not complain about slow business when you close during peak hours.  That is insanity defined.

I cannot imagine how that could help anything. In way too many cases, the survival strategy for downtown Cleveland businesses is to not be open. That is counterproductive, as it tells potential customers to go away and not come back. I've never seen restaurants or convenience stores close as early as they do in downtown Cleveland, not anywhere, and it is positively senseless. As for the Galleria, they would be better off to cover the exterior in brown paper bags than to close the place on weekends. Maybe they're trying to move it to Florida, like in Major League.

 

If downtown Cleveland cannot offer normal human amenities (restaurants open at dinner time, shopping open on shopping days, convenience stores open when people are off work) it makes us look not only poor but determined to stay poor. There is one and only one way to develop a customer base and that is to be there when needed, period. Do not complain about slow business when you close during peak hours. That is insanity defined.

 

I think that so much of this is the classic chicken vs. the egg problem. In order to draw people, businesses need to operate during hours that people can come and visit. However, businesses need to cut costs when those people don't come and shop. I would be interested to know what their "crowds" are like on the weekends. I think places like Tower City and The Galleria really need to step up their marketing and bring in people. What are they doing on that end of things, if anything?

I agree with jpop.  They aren't closing to be mean and make Cleveland look bad.  If there are no customers to support them being open, they can't afford to stay open.  Particularly AG which is not doing so well anyway.

This is all my unresearched opinion, but:

 

Do businesses sometimes have to be open when nobody's there?  All of them.  Do people go to shop at a place they know or assume will be closed?  Never, never, never, never, never.  You simply cannot improve your market position by not being available.  The only direction that can move you is down, regardless of cost savings.  It only takes one "Oh my god, they're closed NOW?!" to permanently lose that person and some others they know.  It communicates to them that you live in a different reality with a different and much lower set of standards than they're accustomed to. 

 

The Galleria's owners would be better off leveling everything but the new Dollar Bank section and selling the land to Zaremba.  This move truly makes me wonder if they have something like that in mind, although it might just be a panic move by some individual who blundererd into having control of a retail center.

I understand that, but when you are bleeding money by the bucketful staying open and staying open and maybe having 2 customers in one night buy a $2 card, you can't just stay open just because you should unless the corporate company supporting you is really, really flush with cash.

This is all my unresearched opinion, but:

 

Do businesses sometimes have to be open when nobody's there? All of them. Do people go to shop at a place they know or assume will be closed? Never, never, never, never, never. You simply cannot improve your market position by not being available. The only direction that can move you is down, regardless of cost savings. It only takes one "Oh my god, they're closed NOW?!" to permanently lose that person and some others they know. It communicates to them that you live in a different reality with a different and much lower set of standards than they're accustomed to.

 

The Galleria's owners would be better off leveling everything but the new Dollar Bank section and selling the land to Zaremba. This move truly makes me wonder if they have something like that in mind, although it might just be a panic move by some individual who blundererd into having control of a retail center.

 

I 100% support this unscientific research analysis.  I will use myself as an example.

 

While in the process of interviewing for my current job, I flew in for the interview.  However, I forgot to bring a tie.  Staying in a hotel downtown, I got there around 6:30pm, checked in, noticed that I forgot my tie, and went to Tower City.  I think I got there shortly after 7:00pm only it was closed (this was a weeknight).  WTF I thought...it's only 7:15? 

 

Fast forward to today - I live downtown.  I can walk to Tower City.  When I need something I might be able to find at Tower City, Tower City is not among my list of places I even consider going to find that item.  So when I think "I need a new tie" and I start to process "when, where, etc" I will get said tie, Tower City never even occurs to me.  I have subconsciously removed Tower City from options simply because it was closed that one time.

But that again is an example of chicken-egg as described above.  They USED to have stores open that sold ties, but they couldn't afford to stay open because nobody was ever there buying ties.  One or two customers a night is just not enough to keep a store open and staffed.  I remember working at the WB store, it was easy to see why it closed.  Once the newness wore off we literally would have NO sales some nights.  Nothing but browsers and people coming in trying to shoplift.  You can't just stay open "because you should." 

It amazes me how we can make decisions on a what a business should do without being privy to their books or the books of the galleria.

 

People are not shopping.

 

Owners cannot afford to pay rent for a space that is not making money nor can the galleria afford to pay the overhead to keep the mall open.

But that again is an example of chicken-egg as described above. They USED to have stores open that sold ties, but they couldn't afford to stay open because nobody was ever there buying ties. One or two customers a night is just not enough to keep a store open and staffed. I remember working at the WB store, it was easy to see why it closed. Once the newness wore off we literally would have NO sales some nights. Nothing but browsers and people coming in trying to shoplift. You can't just stay open "because you should."

 

Too bad.  There is no other way.  You can't expect customers to come in only when its convenient or efficient for you.  I guess serious upfront capital is needed just to open a store of that scale, in order to ride out those evenings.  At least WB flat out closed when things went south.  Maybe the tie store did too.  But there is no sense expecting to remain in business if you aren't going to be open normal hours consistently.  No sense at all.  That's why I read "Galleria closing on weekends" as "no more Galleria" and I'm already dreaming up schemes for that building/plot.  I'd like to be wrong about this, but then again how successful can the Galleria ever be without an anchor store?  How often does the no-anchor model work anywhere?

Then feel free to go get them an anchor.

 

snap your heels together three times, repeat, there's no place like cleveland, and POOF!

 

Anchor store, long hours, and shoppers everywhere.  IT'S THAT EASY.  No one needs market forces! It'll be the most successful venture EVER!  Got a check?

Well, the fact of the matter is a place like Galleria ONLY has business during the week.  So it's not profitable for them to be open all weekend, paying people to work there, paying the electric bill for those days, when there are no customers.  And perhaps they are able to negotiate their rent to be discounted or something if they aren't open every day, who knows.  But it's always the beginning of the end IMO.  I've yet to see a place that used to be open 7 days go to weekdays only and then survive, for the reasons you put forth - if people start "thinking" of them being closed even certain hours or days of the week, they just quit going all together. 

"I guess serious upfront capital is needed just to open a store of that scale, in order to ride out those evenings."

 

Pretty much!

 

A few things - most urban shopping centers in cities the size of Cleveland have limited hours (aka not open until 9pm). Sure, Water Tower Place in Chicago is open until 9pm but it's also supported by a much larger residential, regional and tourist base. Next, if you go through the Galleria, most of the formerly vacant retail spaces on the second floor have been converted to other uses.

This is all my unresearched opinion, but:

 

Do businesses sometimes have to be open when nobody's there? All of them. Do people go to shop at a place they know or assume will be closed? Never, never, never, never, never.

 

I'm sure you know this, 327, but you also have to consider that downtown rents are probably considerably higher than they are elsewhere. Costs to keep a store open when there are fewer customers is much more difficult. Also, I really doubt that the Galleria has had this number of customers for just a day or two. It's probably been going on for a WHILE. I doubt that it's something that they wanted to do.

 

Maybe what people should do is actually contact the owners and let them know that they want the Galleria open later. Maybe if enough people contact them and show them there is a market for the mall staying open, they'll consider opening it more. A business has to do what is cost-effective for the business because a business isn't going to be open at all hours if it isn't COST-EFFECTIVE and PROFITABLE to the BUSINESS.

But that again is an example of chicken-egg as described above.  They USED to have stores open that sold ties, but they couldn't afford to stay open because nobody was ever there buying ties.  One or two customers a night is just not enough to keep a store open and staffed.  I remember working at the WB store, it was easy to see why it closed.  Once the newness wore off we literally would have NO sales some nights.  Nothing but browsers and people coming in trying to shoplift.  You can't just stay open "because you should." 

 

I understand and I'm not saying I necessarily disagree. 

 

But I think people coming in trying to shoplift was the underlying problem, rather than store hours.  Same problem with Randall.  Growing up Randall was easily the closest mall.  In fact the house I lived in until I was 9 was less than 5 miles away and that's where we went to shop...until my mom was mugged leaving Toys R Us with Nintendo games.  Then we started driving further away to shop, including Tower City.  And guess what?  Huge fight at the Tower City movie theater one night we were there and that's that.

 

The fact remains - and I don't care what your books say or your financials indicate - if you're not open, you won't have business.  So if you're not going to be open for regular business hours that your competition is adhereing to, don't expect to do well.  You might as well just close period.  The solution should involve "figure out how to get people in at all hours" not "operate part time to cut costs".

But that again is an example of chicken-egg as described above.  They USED to have stores open that sold ties, but they couldn't afford to stay open because nobody was ever there buying ties.  One or two customers a night is just not enough to keep a store open and staffed.  I remember working at the WB store, it was easy to see why it closed.  Once the newness wore off we literally would have NO sales some nights.  Nothing but browsers and people coming in trying to shoplift.  You can't just stay open "because you should." 

 

The Warner Bros. store because the chain was shut.  Sales at stores like TC and Times Square & Fifth Ave were good.  But "company" manged stores across the the spectru closed.

 

Disney sold their stores and the new owner only kept a handful.

 

When that type of closing happens, it can't be blamed solely based on the location.  Prime example, Barney's.  The Barney's in Cleveland was doing well and they wanted more space, when they went into bankruptcy they couldnt afford to upgrade the store at the price requested so had to close it.

But that again is an example of chicken-egg as described above. They USED to have stores open that sold ties, but they couldn't afford to stay open because nobody was ever there buying ties. One or two customers a night is just not enough to keep a store open and staffed. I remember working at the WB store, it was easy to see why it closed. Once the newness wore off we literally would have NO sales some nights. Nothing but browsers and people coming in trying to shoplift. You can't just stay open "because you should."

the fact remains - and I don't care what your books say or your financials indicate - if you're not open, you won't have business. So if you're not going to be open for regular business hours that your competition is adhereing to, don't expect to do well. You might as well just close period. The solution should involve "figure out how to get people in at all hours" not "operate part time to cut costs".

 

In essence, we agree. But I don't know what the magic wand of "the solution" you think they're supposed to wave over Cleveland to make them start spending money in places they don't want to spend it.  People do not want to come downtown and pay to park to shop somewhere where they can shop near their house and park for free.  People who live downtown were not supporting these stores in sufficient enough numbers for them to stay open. What's the magic wand they're supposed to wave to make that change?  I certainly don't know.

The magic wand is about 25,000 people... of course a significant amount of them who show up.  When market forces demand there be more stores, or different hours there will be.  Until then... this is what you get.  It's not chicken or egg, it's not rocket science.  It's reality.

But that again is an example of chicken-egg as described above.  They USED to have stores open that sold ties, but they couldn't afford to stay open because nobody was ever there buying ties.  One or two customers a night is just not enough to keep a store open and staffed.  I remember working at the WB store, it was easy to see why it closed.  Once the newness wore off we literally would have NO sales some nights.  Nothing but browsers and people coming in trying to shoplift.  You can't just stay open "because you should." 

 

I understand and I'm not saying I necessarily disagree. 

 

But I think people coming in trying to shoplift was the underlying problem, rather than store hours.  Same problem with Randall.  Growing up Randall was easily the closest mall.  In fact the house I lived in until I was 9 was less than 5 miles away and that's where we went to shop...until my mom was mugged leaving Toys R Us with Nintendo games.  Then we started driving further away to shop, including Tower City.  And guess what?  Huge fight at the Tower City movie theater one night we were there and that's that.

 

The fact remains - and I don't care what your books say or your financials indicate - if you're not open, you won't have business.  So if you're not going to be open for regular business hours that your competition is adhereing to, don't expect to do well.  You might as well just close period.  The solution should involve "figure out how to get people in at all hours" not "operate part time to cut costs".

 

Toys r us wasn't at Randall and in this economy - EVEN IN SHOPPERS PARADISE NYC - People are not shopping.

Toys R' Us was across the street from Randall.

 

I guess people should stop shopping at Crocker Park.  Given there have been abductions and rapes in the parking lot each of the last two years.