Nearly every new Tiffany's store is going into a suburban upscale mall...Easton in Columbus, Ross Park in Pburg, St Johns in Jax, Keystone in Indy, etc...track record isn't too urban.

Based on demographics, past interest and all the things they look for in a location, Tiffany & Co. in Cleveland would almost certainly go to Beachwood Place or to La Place.. (which has vacant and highly visible space it needs to fill in the former 20K sq ft Border's space - or perhaps in the soon to re-tool Melange space... Both spots are very visible from Cedar Road...). Eton would be a 2nd choice perhaps - but a possibility due to the drawing power it has and fellow tenants. Legacy Village may have other plans for some of its vacant space - though the former Z Gallerie space, just reopened as a furniture store, might have a been a nice spot..  West side/downtown wouldn't be in their plans right now...

 

The question will be what store/what size they build. The Cleveland/Akron/Canton area is the 16th or so largest in the country - but every other metro in the top 30 already has a Tiffany (including #30 largest Columbus)....  I know this because I have been personally lobbying Tiffany for a store for years....and have kept track...)  The average new Tiffany store in recent years has been about 5500-6000 sq feet, give or take, and has a large silver section, watches, some gift items, engagement rings and gemstone jewelry... Columbus' store is 6200 sq ft, Pittsburgh is 5,700, Indianapolis is 5,000 and Cincinnati is a now-huge 7500 sq feet. 

 

However, Tiffany has made it clear that they may open smaller stores in secondary markets (and as second stores in major markets) and these stores have lots of silver jewelry but much more limited gemstones and all the rest. These stores have opened in Richmond VA, Burbank CA, etc... Cleveland's size and demographics would certainly seem to warrant a full=fledged store, but you never know... It would be unfortunate if Cleveland got a Tiffany lite... it really would.

 

FYI - if the store went to Beachwood Place and other tenants didn't move for it, the former Brooks Brothers spot on the main floor or the former Sony Style spot on the 2nd floor would be good/similar spots to other malls in which Tiffany is located... If McCormick & Schmick's closes at Beachwood Place - which isn't necessarily a stretch, based on their now very limited opening hours (no more Sat/Sun lunch.. Open 4-5 hours on Sunday) - that front of mall spot would be prime... For those who might want to see for themelves - here's a link to page with Beachwood Place leasing plans...

 

http://www.ggp.com/properties/downloadable-information/beachwood-place

 

(this is what I read in my spare time... seriously....)

 

 

 

 

Regarding Tiffany & Co's smaller stores - the stores noted above in Richmond VA, Burbank CA (and also Jacksonville FL) range from 2500-3500 square feet - with a more limited selection. that's what we hope we do not get here...

So here is a thought -- outlet mall in Tower Cty. With the casino going in not everyone wants to spend 24/7 gambling. Why not another attraction for when the bus tours roll in?  I thought of this when I visited PA recently. Meadows Race Track near Pittsburgh has slots and horse racing. Next door?  You guessed it - outlet mall, Tanger Outlets.

 

Gambling and shopping. Sounds like a good marriage to me.

http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2009/03/clevelands_downtown_considered.html

 

This idea has been talked about before.  I agree, Tower City needs to do something to cash in on this casino; its connected to the thing.

Based on demographics, past interest and all the things they look for in a location, Tiffany & Co. in Cleveland would almost certainly go to Beachwood Place or to La Place.. (which has vacant and highly visible space it needs to fill in the former 20K sq ft Border's space - or perhaps in the soon to re-tool Melange space... Both spots are very visible from Cedar Road...). Eton would be a 2nd choice perhaps - but a possibility due to the drawing power it has and fellow tenants. Legacy Village may have other plans for some of its vacant space - though the former Z Gallerie space, just reopened as a furniture store, might have a been a nice spot..  West side/downtown wouldn't be in their plans right now...

 

The question will be what store/what size they build. The Cleveland/Akron/Canton area is the 16th or so largest in the country - but every other metro in the top 30 already has a Tiffany (including #30 largest Columbus)....  I know this because I have been personally lobbying Tiffany for a store for years....and have kept track...)  The average new Tiffany store in recent years has been about 5500-6000 sq feet, give or take, and has a large silver section, watches, some gift items, engagement rings and gemstone jewelry... Columbus' store is 6200 sq ft, Pittsburgh is 5,700, Indianapolis is 5,000 and Cincinnati is a now-huge 7500 sq feet. 

 

However, Tiffany has made it clear that they may open smaller stores in secondary markets (and as second stores in major markets) and these stores have lots of silver jewelry but much more limited gemstones and all the rest. These stores have opened in Richmond VA, Burbank CA, etc... Cleveland's size and demographics would certainly seem to warrant a full=fledged store, but you never know... It would be unfortunate if Cleveland got a Tiffany lite... it really would.

 

FYI - if the store went to Beachwood Place and other tenants didn't move for it, the former Brooks Brothers spot on the main floor or the former Sony Style spot on the 2nd floor would be good/similar spots to other malls in which Tiffany is located... If McCormick & Schmick's closes at Beachwood Place - which isn't necessarily a stretch, based on their now very limited opening hours (no more Sat/Sun lunch.. Open 4-5 hours on Sunday) - that front of mall spot would be prime... For those who might want to see for themelves - here's a link to page with Beachwood Place leasing plans...

 

http://www.ggp.com/properties/downloadable-information/beachwood-place

 

(this is what I read in my spare time... seriously....)

 

 

 

 

 

Well, this should be categorized more as conjecture than as fact, as it's a "I heard it from someone who heard it from someone", but the someone I heard it from does know the players involved

 

Berger & Silver recently announced they were closing and leaving their space in Eton Collection, and my 'source', as it were, indicated that Stark's intent was to bring Tiffany into that space, but as of today, that is no longer the case as Tiffany has stated they're no longer interested in the space. For those who have never seen it, Berger & Silver's space definitely fall into that 'boutique' sized store category, rather than the full sized Tiffany.

 

So there, throw that chum into the rumor infested waters and have at it.

I could really care less if Tiffany came to Cleveland, but I'd be pretty bummed if they did come to the area and didn't settle downtown.  They seem like a destination store that will pull people in so it would be nice to have that magnet downtown to give other downtown retailers a little boost.

i hope they don't come. my girlfriend has expensive enough tastes as it is.

i hope they don't come. my girlfriend has expensive enough tastes as it is.

 

There's really only one place she wants you to go

 

Eton: a dumpster showed up this past week in front of part of former Ruth's Chris in middle of center next to Penzeys, vacant since steakhouse closed I think, though interior side was salon until recently.. enough space for Tiffany.  Eton is busy but off many people's radar I'm guessing. Not sure that is best choice for a draw like that. parking very tight often.

 

Any La Place, Legacy or Beachwood Place rumors, anyone? Borders space at La Place? joseph-Beth at Legacy? Subdivision of those,spaces likely?

Now that my office is downtown, I realized something is missing down there. Can we at least get a freakin' office supply store like Staples or Office Max down there? Sheesh!

 

That and a 24-hour comfort food restaurant like Denny's, IHOP, even a Bob Evans that's open 24/7 would be fine. An independent like Diana's Deli or Friends Restaurant & Deli might be even better.

Denny's, IHOP, even a Bob Evans

 

i think 1890 at the arcade is open until like 4am.

And Slyman's opens at six, so we really just need someone open between 4 and 6am.

 

Edit: Nope, per the 1890 site, looks like they're only open until midnight.

I know as recently as this summer 1890 was open from 11p to 4a Thursday-Saturday as a throw-back diner, with breakfast items, milkshakes, etc.  I wonder if that's only a seasonal thing.

Right now, I'd just love to have an office supply store downtown. My office is above one of the CVS stores downtown, so I can get some basic things (pens, CDs, memory sticks, power strips, etc). But many times that's just not enough.

 

Yesterday I needed a wireless network adapter. CVS didn't have those so I had to take the Rapid out to West 117th to get one at Staples! Argh. Something tells me I'm going to be riding the Red Line back out to my hood during the day to do some office supplies shopping.

Try Radio Shack, but I agree that it's rediculous that there isn't an office supply shop.

My guess is that an office supply place would face an uphill battle as most larger companies are going to have purchasing programs that prohibit prospective purveyors from patronizing their premises (sorry it started and I couldn't stop)

About 12-14 years ago there was a Burrows (remember those) in the old NCB Building, right across the street from you.

 

Isn't there an office supply store at Steelyard?  (Although still not a quick walk like a imagine you are looking for).

 

My guess is that an Office Max place does not believe they would do well downtown given the nature of the beast.  The "store" version of Office Max, Staples etc tend to cater to the small business owner and home office worker who tend to be more in the burbs.  Downtown is primarily big business who have their supplies delivered, often by companies that don't even have a brick and mortar retail outlets.  Indeed, even when I worked at smaller law firms we had our supplies delivered.

 

If downtown had a larger residential population (which would probably mean a greater number of people working out of their apartments) you might see a smaller office supply store pop up, but that could be said for any type of retail downtown, which is of course lacking in many categories.

I think downtown has many more small businesses than some of you seem to think -- especially with rents as low as they are. My preference was to locate my office downtown and the only reason why I could was the low rents in Class B and C buildings.

 

Yep, I remember the Burrows store, or just Burrows -- period! :-o

 

Isn't there an office supply store at Steelyard?  (Although still not a quick walk like a imagine you are looking for).

 

 

Yeah, there's a Staples.

Isn't there a small office supply store on Euclid near CSU?

I think downtown has many more small businesses than some of you seem to think -- especially with rents as low as they are. My preference was to locate my office downtown and the only reason why I could was the low rents in Class B and C buildings.

 

Yep, I remember the Burrows store, or just Burrows -- period! :-o

 

You probably are correct that Downtown has more small businesses than we think, but Staples Advantage (their business program) is set up on the low end for businesses between 20-100 people.  That is a very low threshold. 

 

Additionally, Staples offers free shipping from their website.  I imagine a good number of places use that if they are under 20 employees.

Isn't there a small office supply store on Euclid near CSU?

 

Tell me more.

 

You probably are correct that Downtown has more small businesses than we think, but Staples Advantage (their business program) is set up on the low end for businesses between 20-100 people.  That is a very low threshold. 

 

Additionally, Staples offers free shipping from their website.  I imagine a good number of places use that if they are under 20 employees.

 

I imagine they do -- when they can anticipate purchases in advance.

 

BTW, all this talk about Staples (and my recent Google searches for wireless USB adapters) has resulted in ads for Staples wireless USB adapters appearing on the bottom of these pages!

Those ads are following you - you have acquired a cookie that says you are interested in wireless USB.

 

Most of the rest of us won't be seeing those ads.

Yes, but I don't want cookies! Except for the chocolate chip variety....

KJP, become a premium member and ads will no longer be a problem! :)

So here is a thought -- outlet mall in Tower Cty. With the casino going in not everyone wants to spend 24/7 gambling. Why not another attraction for when the bus tours roll in?  I thought of this when I visited PA recently. Meadows Race Track near Pittsburgh has slots and horse racing. Next door?  You guessed it - outlet mall, Tanger Outlets.

 

Gambling and shopping. Sounds like a good marriage to me.

 

Would never work.  Reread your post. ;)

 

Most if not all outlet malls, Las Vegas excluded, are located away from high priced CBD buildings.  Because the product cost at retail is very low, they must keep their overhead low.  this is why most "outlet" mall or overstock stores are located in exurban locations.

 

Tower City is too prominent and high priced for retail outlet.

So here is a thought -- outlet mall in Tower Cty. With the casino going in not everyone wants to spend 24/7 gambling. Why not another attraction for when the bus tours roll in?  I thought of this when I visited PA recently. Meadows Race Track near Pittsburgh has slots and horse racing. Next door?  You guessed it - outlet mall, Tanger Outlets.

 

Gambling and shopping. Sounds like a good marriage to me.

 

Would never work.  Reread your post. ;)

 

Most if not all outlet malls, Las Vegas excluded, are located away from high priced CBD buildings.  Because the product cost at retail is very low, they must keep their overhead low.  this is why most "outlet" mall or overstock stores are located in exurban locations.

 

Tower City is too prominent and high priced for retail outlet.

 

Hmm, seems like a retail consultant seems to have another opinion. From a couple years ago.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2009/03/clevelands_downtown_considered.html

 

Cleveland's downtown is considered choice real estate for outlet shopping

 

Published: Saturday, March 21, 2009, 4:08 PM    Updated: Saturday, March 21, 2009, 6:10 PM

 

Outlets, often located in far-flung places near freeway ramps or in tourist meccas, might not seem like an instant fit for the former department stores and historic buildings that line Euclid Avenue.

 

But that's precisely what a retail consultant is pitching, as part of a broader scheme to move the corridor's renewal from the street to its storefronts.

Isn't there a small office supply store on Euclid near CSU?

 

Tell me more.

 

You probably are correct that Downtown has more small businesses than we think, but Staples Advantage (their business program) is set up on the low end for businesses between 20-100 people.  That is a very low threshold. 

 

Additionally, Staples offers free shipping from their website.  I imagine a good number of places use that if they are under 20 employees.

 

 

BTW, all this talk about Staples (and my recent Google searches for wireless USB adapters) has resulted in ads for Staples wireless USB adapters appearing on the bottom of these pages!

 

Besides the school bookstore, i believe there is at least two stores on the south side of Euclid that sell office type things.

 

And.... what ads???

Oh, that's right. I use ad-block on my browsers. I don't get those things anywhere.

So here is a thought -- outlet mall in Tower Cty. With the casino going in not everyone wants to spend 24/7 gambling. Why not another attraction for when the bus tours roll in?  I thought of this when I visited PA recently. Meadows Race Track near Pittsburgh has slots and horse racing. Next door?  You guessed it - outlet mall, Tanger Outlets.

 

Gambling and shopping. Sounds like a good marriage to me.

 

Would never work.  Reread your post. ;)

 

Most if not all outlet malls, Las Vegas excluded, are located away from high priced CBD buildings.  Because the product cost at retail is very low, they must keep their overhead low.  this is why most "outlet" mall or overstock stores are located in exurban locations.

 

Tower City is too prominent and high priced for retail outlet.

 

Hmm, seems like a retail consultant seems to have another opinion. From a couple years ago.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2009/03/clevelands_downtown_considered.html

 

Cleveland's downtown is considered choice real estate for outlet shopping

 

Published: Saturday, March 21, 2009, 4:08 PM    Updated: Saturday, March 21, 2009, 6:10 PM

 

Outlets, often located in far-flung places near freeway ramps or in tourist meccas, might not seem like an instant fit for the former department stores and historic buildings that line Euclid Avenue.

 

But that's precisely what a retail consultant is pitching, as part of a broader scheme to move the corridor's renewal from the street to its storefronts.

 

You've posted something that has been posted at least 3 times in this very thread.

 

[*]That article was published during the height of the credit freeze.

[*]Not once do they discuss cost to operate exurban location vs. city location

[*]The articles title and content of that article make no sense, there is no connectivity.  It talks about an "updated plan" yet doesn't list or mention this plan.

[*]Since the date of that published article, what has happened?  NADA.

I'm so confident this would never happen, that if it did, I'd give away every item in my closets to GoodWill or the Salvation Army.

 

 

I'm so confident this would never happen, that if it did, I'd give away every item in my closets to GoodWill or the Salvation Army.

 

 

We will remember this ;)

Because the homeless and impoverished really want to walk around in gold lamé track suits

KJP, become a premium member and ads will no longer be a problem! :)

 

Ads are no problem.

 

 

Since the date of that published article, what has happened?  NADA.

 

 

While I don't see retail outlets happening downtown, the article was published two years before the credit markets loosened up. And even then American investors seem more interested in credit default swaps than investing in entrepreneurs.

 

 

Because the homeless and impoverished really want to walk around in gold lamé track suits

 

I would close my office downtown. Unless I walked around downtown with my eyes closed, I think my eyes would burn to a crisp otherwise.

The outlet plan isn't dead...From May of this year

 

"Convention attendees with a stake in downtown Cleveland hope growth-hungry stores and restaurants will look at the center city, where projects including a casino are reviving retailer interest in Tower City and renewing talk about a high-end outlet district along Euclid Avenue.

 

'While the recession dealt a bit of a belly blow . . . there's a beginning of a movement of consumer spending turning around,' said Mitchell Schneider, president of First Interstate Properties and the developer of shopping centers that include Steelyard Commons in Cleveland and Legacy Village in Lyndhurst...

 

Leaders from the Downtown Cleveland Alliance and PlayhouseSquare planned a trek to Las Vegas to see whether outlet retailers might be interested in several arcades and other little-used spaces on lower Euclid Avenue.

 

'We're really going to test the waters,' said Joe Marinucci, chief executive of the Downtown Cleveland Alliance, a nonprofit group that represents property owners."

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2011/05/with_new_construction_projects.html

 

If the Casino brings as many people as projected to downtown Cleveland on a regular basis, oh the outlet malls downtown WILL happen. No doubt in my mind about that. We're really only in a race against time to do it before the suburbs do it. If we can get it going before they can, this will happen and it will be big.

The outlet plan isn't dead...From May of this year

 

"Convention attendees with a stake in downtown Cleveland hope growth-hungry stores and restaurants will look at the center city, where projects including a casino are reviving retailer interest in Tower City and renewing talk about a high-end outlet district along Euclid Avenue.

 

'While the recession dealt a bit of a belly blow . . . there's a beginning of a movement of consumer spending turning around,' said Mitchell Schneider, president of First Interstate Properties and the developer of shopping centers that include Steelyard Commons in Cleveland and Legacy Village in Lyndhurst...

 

Leaders from the Downtown Cleveland Alliance and PlayhouseSquare planned a trek to Las Vegas to see whether outlet retailers might be interested in several arcades and other little-used spaces on lower Euclid Avenue.

 

'We're really going to test the waters,' said Joe Marinucci, chief executive of the Downtown Cleveland Alliance, a nonprofit group that represents property owners."

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2011/05/with_new_construction_projects.html

 

If the Casino brings as many people as projected to downtown Cleveland on a regular basis, oh the outlet malls downtown WILL happen. No doubt in my mind about that. We're really only in a race against time to do it before the suburbs do it. If we can get it going before they can, this will happen and it will be big.

 

WHAT PLAN? :? :?

 

Using existing vacant space in the exiting arcades, isn't equivalent to creating an outlet mall.  Again, outlets have low overhead, downtown space is usually at a premium.  A handful of outlet stores in the CBD has been done before, examples: 

• Philly along Chestnut, while Walnut was transitioning into a mid to high scale mixed merchandise retail strip. 
  
• Chicago S. State street, once Carson Pirie Scott went downhill.
  

Outlet malls will not work in the CBD, unless we have flagship stores in the CBD in place.  Outlets are "hit & miss" stores as many items are irregular or do not pass QC, therefore the merchandise cannot be sold.  Traditional (flagship) retail brands are needed before you can expand 2nd hand brand culture.

 

I don't understand why they are using Vegas as a cited source considering they have some one of the worst outlet malls and with the strip right there, there is a different customer. 

I certainly know the general operating theory of outlet malls - and keeping them away from cities - putting them on the metro fringes or further. With that said, Tower City's casino-adjacent location is just wating to be re-developed - but since it was in its prime, Beachwood Place has strengthened, Legacy Village has been built, Eton has been revitalized (= nothing short of amazing), SouthPark and Crocker Park have gone up - and so forth. This leaves little/no room for most of the types of tenants they would want to go after for a mall these days - especially uppper end regular price retailers - which will focus towards similar retailers, east and west. Trying to convince Banana Republic, etc... to go downtown again, after failure, may not happen.

 

That leaves the interesting thought of an outlet mall... - or rather convincing an operator/retailers to a city center a try - maybe the first of its kind. Cleveland's suburban outlets pale in comparision with those in other big cities - Lodi and Aurora are 2nd rate - both in size an tenants...  If you could bring the usual outlet suspects to Tower City - add in outlets not found locally yet (Burberry, Lacoste, North Face, etc..) plus the addition of a powerhouse anchor or two, like Bass Pro (often in outlet malls) or Last Call Neiman-Marcus, etc... - it could create a whole new type of outlet situation. Would become a major regional draw.

 

I'd also bet that outlet stores like North Face, Lacoste, etc... would not be any closer to their regular price cousins than they are already at suburban outlet malls in places like Chicago, etc...

I certainly know the general operating theory of outlet malls - and keeping them away from cities - putting them on the metro fringes or further. With that said, Tower City's casino-adjacent location is just wating to be re-developed - but since it was in its prime, Beachwood Place has strengthened, Legacy Village has been built, Eton has been revitalized (= nothing short of amazing), SouthPark and Crocker Park have gone up - and so forth. This leaves little/no room for most of the types of tenants they would want to go after for a mall these days - especially uppper end regular price retailers - which will focus towards similar retailers, east and west. Trying to convince Banana Republic, etc... to go downtown again, after failure, may not happen.

 

That leaves the interesting thought of an outlet mall... - or rather convincing an operator/retailers to a city center a try - maybe the first of its kind. Cleveland's suburban outlets pale in comparision with those in other big cities - Lodi and Aurora are 2nd rate - both in size an tenants...  If you could bring the usual outlet suspects to Tower City - add in outlets not found locally yet (Burberry, Lacoste, North Face, etc..) plus the addition of a powerhouse anchor or two, like Bass Pro (often in outlet malls) or Last Call Neiman-Marcus, etc... - it could create a whole new type of outlet situation. Would become a major regional draw.

 

I'd also bet that outlet stores like North Face, Lacoste, etc... would not be any closer to their regular price cousins than they are already at suburban outlet malls in places like Chicago, etc...

 

I disagree.  We've talked about TC failure in the past.  No. 1 and foremost is they are not a mall manager.  They do not know how to manage a retail mall and are to stupid to hire one.

 

Second, the residential landscape of Downtown proper and the adjacent neighborhoods has drastically changed and will only improve.  Why should shoppers in the 3 miles of Public Square drive outside of the city to shop.  When downtown TC was thriving, Beachwood, Randal Park and Severance (which was on its last leg) were hit very hard. 

 

When it comes to retail, we're still a tier 2 city.  Redeveloping TC with flagships as it was intended would help change downtown, the retain landscape and bring back shoppers who remember what it was like to shop at Higbee's, May Co and Halle's.

 

Although Beachwood has expanded, there are lots of retailers that are not in the Cleveland market and that is a plus for TC.  Gap Inc.stores close and re open all the time, they love market saturation.  Which is why often at times you'll see a BR mens store and a Womens store on the same block, just to keep a competitor out.

NEO is the most under-upscale-retailed metro in the country bar none... So many big names we don't have that areas half our size do have - Columbus, Indy, Pittsburgh, etc...  Burberry, Container Store, Tiffany - way too many to list... 

 

But if and when those stores come -and it's hard to believe that the sheer size of the area hasn't convinced them there are consumers here - their surest bet is east side, based on other tenants... If it takes Tiffany 150 years to put a store in Cleveland, I can't imagine Tower City is their 1st choice...

NEO is the most under-upscale-retailed metro in the country bar none... So many big names we don't have that areas half our size do have - Columbus, Indy, Pittsburgh, etc...  Burberry, Container Store, Tiffany - way too many to list... 

 

But if and when those stores come -and it's hard to believe that the sheer size of the area hasn't convinced them there are consumers here - their surest bet is east side, based on other tenants... If it takes Tiffany 150 years to put a store in Cleveland, I can't imagine Tower City is their 1st choice...

 

Why? Not a personal dig at you, but this is something I've spoken about before.  (Many) Clevelanders can often say why something wont work, but never why it could work?

 

What all the investment in the city core and adjacent neighborhoods, why wouldn't retailers give downtown a good look?

Hey - I'm not against downtown retail - and I'd hate to think I'm anything like those naysayers who mark all thoughts as "won't work in Cleveland.." - that's not me. I'd have loved to see Stark's WHD Pesht work - and it may very well have revitalized retail singlehandedly - but it would have  been a huge, new, all-at-once $1B solution.

 

Unless Tower City were closed and revamped into a signature showplace - and maybe it could be done - retailers, in my view, will play it safe and go east/west to the places we'd expect.

Hey - I'm not against downtown retail - and I'd hate to think I'm anything like those naysayers who mark all thoughts as "won't work in Cleveland.." - that's not me. I'd have loved to see Stark's WHD Pesht work - and it may very well have revitalized retail singlehandedly - but it would have  been a huge, new, all-at-once $1B solution.

 

Unless Tower City were closed and revamped into a signature showplace - and maybe it could be done - retailers, in my view, will play it safe and go east/west to the places we'd expect.

 

Closed and revamped,please explain?  What is wrong with the layout of the mall as it is.  It's got great bones, thats the one GOOD thing FC did with the mall.

Closed/revamped - I love the space but doesn't it need a transformational makeover/change to usher a new era. Luxury retailer A is not coming into mall with empty spaces and discont retailer B and C.. Close it.. refresh it - launch as new shopping showplace with all new tenants.. Basic look/feel remains the same...

Closed/revamped - I love the space but doesn't it need a transformational makeover/change to usher a new era. Luxury retailer A is not coming into mall with empty spaces and discont retailer B and C.. Close it.. refresh it - launch as new shopping showplace with all new tenants.. Basic look/feel remains the same...

 

Tower City cannot be a Luxury mall.  It has to be a mixed merchandise mall.  Period.  I dont agree with closing as that only hurts the current tenants and the mall itself.  Releasing and swapping spaces makes more sense.  As new tenants come into the mix existing stores can stay yet be relocated based on their square foot needs and flow of stores on the plan-a-gram.

So wouldn't it be a general feeling that Gilbert will try to buy the mall, too - so then he owns the casino, the hotel, the mall/the access to casino phase 2?

So wouldn't it be a general feeling that Gilbert will try to buy the mall, too - so then he owns the casino, the hotel, the mall/the access to casino phase 2?

 

I agree. But then that leaves it as a "normal" mall - and we have plenty of those around here. To make folks want to go downtown to shop at Tower City - not just to go to the casino and then to mall, but to go downtown to shop at TC - it has to be something compelling. That gets back to the super outlet mall concept... There could be plenty of luxury AND mixed merchandise in a facility like that... enough for all - casino goers, suburbanites, visitors, etc...

So wouldn't it be a general feeling that Gilbert will try to buy the mall, too - so then he owns the casino, the hotel, the mall/the access to casino phase 2?

 

I agree. But then that leaves it as a "normal" mall - and we have plenty of those around here. To make folks want to go downtown to shop at Tower City - not just to go to the casino and then to mall, but to go downtown to shop at TC - it has to be something compelling. That gets back to the super outlet mall concept... There could be plenty of luxury AND mixed merchandise in a facility like that... enough for all - casino goers, suburbanites, visitors, etc...

 

This makes no sense.  First it an outlet mall, now its a "super" outlet mall?  Come on??

 

This isn't the place for that, based on the post above, then we need to have flagship stores (barney's Brands, gucci, Betsey Johnson, Carolina Herrera, DVF, Prada, LV, etc.) that are (new) to the market along with basics like (The Gap Inc stores, Zara, Limited Brands, Kenneth Cole, club monica, etc.). 

 

The outlet stores could be in the various Arcades, but not Tower City.  I'm not going to see a Nordstroms and Nordstroms rack across from one another.  That is not "mixed" retail for a mall like Tower City.

So wouldn't it be a general feeling that Gilbert will try to buy the mall, too - so then he owns the casino, the hotel, the mall/the access to casino phase 2?

 

I agree. But then that leaves it as a "normal" mall - and we have plenty of those around here. To make folks want to go downtown to shop at Tower City - not just to go to the casino and then to mall, but to go downtown to shop at TC - it has to be something compelling. That gets back to the super outlet mall concept... There could be plenty of luxury AND mixed merchandise in a facility like that... enough for all - casino goers, suburbanites, visitors, etc...

 

This makes no sense.  First it an outlet mall, now its a "super" outlet mall?  Come on??

 

This isn't the place for that, based on the post above, then we need to have flagship stores (barney's Brands, gucci, Betsey Johnson, Carolina Herrera, DVF, Prada, LV, etc.) that are (new) to the market along with basics like (The Gap Inc stores, Zara, Limited Brands, Kenneth Cole, club monica, etc.). 

 

The outlet stores could be in the various Arcades, but not Tower City.  I'm not going to see a Nordstroms and Nordstroms rack across from one another.  That is not "mixed" retail for a mall like Tower City.

 

But if Cleveland doesn't have Betsey Johnson, Prada, (a freestanding) Louis Vuitton, Barney's/Coop, Zara, Club Monaco, Kenneth Cole (or Tommy Bahama, Cole Haan, Puma, Kate Spade, Juicy Couture, Tory Burch, American Girl, West Elm, Cartier, Madewell, etc, etc,) already - and we don't, as you know -  then I just can't imagine a casino opening is going to bring them to Tower City when nothing else like them exists there. Be the development guy who pitches that to the retail company president...  There is NOTHING I'd love more - but... But all/most of those have outlets - upscale outlets/factory stores that I've been to in Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Orlando, upstate NY, Chicago, Atlantic City, etc... - and THAT coudl get done. Add in Capital Grille, Ruth's Chris', The Palm, Daily Grill, Seasons 52, Palomino, Texas de Brazil/Fogo de Chao, Roy's - and some of those other key national upscale chain names that will mean something to conventioneers - and NOW you've got something for locals and visitors alike. th

So wouldn't it be a general feeling that Gilbert will try to buy the mall, too - so then he owns the casino, the hotel, the mall/the access to casino phase 2?

 

I agree. But then that leaves it as a "normal" mall - and we have plenty of those around here. To make folks want to go downtown to shop at Tower City - not just to go to the casino and then to mall, but to go downtown to shop at TC - it has to be something compelling. That gets back to the super outlet mall concept... There could be plenty of luxury AND mixed merchandise in a facility like that... enough for all - casino goers, suburbanites, visitors, etc...

 

This makes no sense.  First it an outlet mall, now its a "super" outlet mall?  Come on??

 

This isn't the place for that, based on the post above, then we need to have flagship stores (barney's Brands, gucci, Betsey Johnson, Carolina Herrera, DVF, Prada, LV, etc.) that are (new) to the market along with basics like (The Gap Inc stores, Zara, Limited Brands, Kenneth Cole, club monica, etc.). 

 

The outlet stores could be in the various Arcades, but not Tower City.  I'm not going to see a Nordstroms and Nordstroms rack across from one another.  That is not "mixed" retail for a mall like Tower City.

 

But if Cleveland doesn't have Betsey Johnson, Prada, (a freestanding) Louis Vuitton, Barney's/Coop, Zara, Club Monaco, Kenneth Cole (or Tommy Bahama, Cole Haan, Puma, Kate Spade, Juicy Couture, Tory Burch, American Girl, West Elm, Cartier, Madewell, etc, etc,) already - and we don't, as you know -  then I just can't imagine a casino opening is going to bring them to Tower City when nothing else like them exists there. Be the development guy who pitches that to the retail company president...  There is NOTHING I'd love more - but... But all/most of those have outlets - upscale outlets/factory stores that I've been to in Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Orlando, upstate NY, Chicago, Atlantic City, etc... - and THAT coudl get done. Add in Capital Grille, Ruth's Chris', The Palm, Daily Grill, Seasons 52, Palomino, Texas de Brazil/Fogo de Chao, Roy's - and some of those other key national upscale chain names that will mean something to conventioneers - and NOW you've got something for locals and visitors alike. th

f

 

Because of the cost factor.  Over head.  That alone is the kiss of death.  Again, comparing rural outlets to city shopping doesn't work.  You cant bring Vegas and Orlando into the picture because there is no comparable product since Vegas has no traditional downtown the outlets are just off the strip.  We also know the chain restaurants have a bad history here, Clevelanders just wont support them.  Granted they are a catch 22, as some believe familiarity will help, as those (visitors) with no taste will take comfort in a known brand.

 

How do you put a Prada outlet in TC and cover how do you cover the rent, salaries, franchise payment, insurance, etc.?  The price point on the non QA/irregular/post retail goods is too low to cover the rent.

The outlet plan isn't dead...From May of this year

 

"Convention attendees with a stake in downtown Cleveland hope growth-hungry stores and restaurants will look at the center city, where projects including a casino are reviving retailer interest in Tower City and renewing talk about a high-end outlet district along Euclid Avenue.

 

'While the recession dealt a bit of a belly blow . . . there's a beginning of a movement of consumer spending turning around,' said Mitchell Schneider, president of First Interstate Properties and the developer of shopping centers that include Steelyard Commons in Cleveland and Legacy Village in Lyndhurst...

 

Leaders from the Downtown Cleveland Alliance and PlayhouseSquare planned a trek to Las Vegas to see whether outlet retailers might be interested in several arcades and other little-used spaces on lower Euclid Avenue.

 

'We're really going to test the waters,' said Joe Marinucci, chief executive of the Downtown Cleveland Alliance, a nonprofit group that represents property owners."

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2011/05/with_new_construction_projects.html

 

If the Casino brings as many people as projected to downtown Cleveland on a regular basis, oh the outlet malls downtown WILL happen. No doubt in my mind about that. We're really only in a race against time to do it before the suburbs do it. If we can get it going before they can, this will happen and it will be big.

 

WHAT PLAN? :? :?

 

Using existing vacant space in the exiting arcades, isn't equivalent to creating an outlet mall.  Again, outlets have low overhead, downtown space is usually at a premium.  A handful of outlet stores in the CBD has been done before, examples: 

• Philly along Chestnut, while Walnut was transitioning into a mid to high scale mixed merchandise retail strip. 
  
• Chicago S. State street, once Carson Pirie Scott went downhill.
  

Outlet malls will not work in the CBD, unless we have flagship stores in the CBD in place.  Outlets are "hit & miss" stores as many items are irregular or do not pass QC, therefore the merchandise cannot be sold.  Traditional (flagship) retail brands are needed before you can expand 2nd hand brand culture.

 

I don't understand why they are using Vegas as a cited source considering they have some one of the worst outlet malls and with the strip right there, there is a different customer.

They didn't. That was the location of the retailers conference

 

Oh and to answer your question, "what plan?", this plan: http://downtowncleveland.com/media/38530/euclid%20avenue%20retail%20district.pdf