Thanks Willboy and Original for the info.  I haven't been to Parmatown because I've lived out of state for the past 10 years, so it is sad to hear about that area going downhill.  Sounds like what happened to Rolling Acres Mall in Akron when I lived there.  It was booming when I was in high school, then took a dive.

 

At least you have a good reason for not going to Parmatown for the past 10 years. MTS doesn't! ;)

 

When I was home over both Thanksgiving and Christmas, for some reason I kept hearing comments about how Parma was getting rough and ghetto.  Some from people I didnt know, some I did know, some that lived there and some that didnt.  I mean everybody agreed and nobody defended it... 

 

My sister used to live there and when I met up with her after midnight shopping over Thanksgiving she was saying how bad it had become and how rough the crowd was.  I was curious and started to look at stats, and certainly it is going through the same thing that many of the inner suburbs with cheap housing have been going through.  I was also reading where many of the apartment buildings had become magnets for trouble. 

 

I do recall there were nicer neighborhoods there, and I would imagine those are still nice.     

 

Sure the Mall went downhill with the barage of newer places over the years, but it sounds like much of the original demographic that stores like Macy's would have catered to are less abundant in the area than they once were.   

Not to discredit you or those you spoke with but often when I hear people use the term "ghetto" they really mean something else.  What exactly has changed, I didn't grow up in Parma but to me - no offense to anyone - the area has always been low budget.  So what do these people, and I know you cannot answer this, consider "ghetto"?

 

I sense the store as a May Co./Kaufmanns was a lower tier store considering there were less than 100 employees.  In an over-saturated retail city i bet the cost to keep the store opened outweighed the revenue.

 

Will anyone, outside employees, really miss this store and if they did, why weren't they shopping at this location on a more consistent basis to begin with?

It's Parma tract housing.  The demographics of the town are catching up to the declining desirability of the housing stock to modern families.  Through my parents I know at least 7 people who own 3 or more Parma bungalows.  All in their 50s or 60s, all raised their families in Parma, left in the last 15 years, started renting out their old home, then started accumulating more properties.  These new tenants aren't shopping at Macys because they're all up at Walmart next door.

A bigger thing that is lost is just how much business Southpark is taking away.  My wife's mother grew up and still lives in North Royalton.  She used to go to Parmatown for all shopping needs, well most needs.  But once Southpark was built it was closer to get there than to Parmatown and thus that is where they began shopping.  Most of the homes (terrible homes btw) have more disposable income in N. Royalton than Parma so losing those dollars significantly hurts the ability of the mall to thrive.

 

While the wife and I were on the subject we were brainstorming ways to repurpose the mall and one that seemed interesting was as a sports facility.  Parma has a cr@p-ton of sports leagues, probably enough leagues for every resident to be on 3 different teams.  I personally think the support columns for the building would hinder most uses, but if it could be done I think it might be able to work.

^ I would also add improvements at Summit Mall in Fairlawn to the reasons for the demise of Parmatown. Parmatown was probably in it's heyday in the late 80's and early 90's when it was more of a super regional draw from the Cleveland west and south suburbs, West Akron, Fairlawn, Bath and Medina.  Debartolo starved Summit for many years during that time and it was a dump despite the high income demographics surrounding it.  That Northern Summit county area was definitely part of Parmatown's draw at one time and there is a lot of money there.  Now Summit Mall probably pulls shoppers from southwest Cuyahoga County suburbs as well that would have gone to Parmatown just as SouthPark does.

I remember reading a Plain Dealer article that talked about Parmatown and it said that it got squeezed at both sides in regards to its clientele. Higher income shoppers went to the mall in Strongsville and the middle and lower income shoppers went to Steelyard in Cleveland so Parmatown lost a customer base to draw from.

I heard from a reliable source that a Nordstrom Rack is coming to the west side.  It will be located in Westlake in the formers Borders at the Promenade (which is attached to Crocker Park).  Probably a smart move (and one less reason for west siders to keep their passports updated to travel to the east side).

I unfortunately went into a Nordstrom Rack once. I saw an item that had a sticker that said, "Total savings of $0" And then larger, "Thats a 0% Savings!"

 

Or something along those lines.

 

I originally saw a different one was $1 off for a 2% savings!, and thought is was funny, but when I saw the 0% savings one, I couldn't help but laugh.

I heard from a reliable source that a Nordstrom Rack is coming to the west side.  It will be located in Westlake in the formers Borders at the Promenade (which is attached to Crocker Park).  Probably a smart move (and one less reason for west siders to keep their passports updated to travel to the east side).

 

EH....

Yes, we know you don't buy your clothes off the rack, Mr. Tailored Suits.  :roll:

I heard from a reliable source that a Nordstrom Rack is coming to the west side.  It will be located in Westlake in the formers Borders at the Promenade (which is attached to Crocker Park).  Probably a smart move (and one less reason for west siders to keep their passports updated to travel to the east side).

 

Sick.  I hate crocker

I heard from a reliable source that a Nordstrom Rack is coming to the west side.  It will be located in Westlake in the formers Borders at the Promenade (which is attached to Crocker Park).  Probably a smart move (and one less reason for west siders to keep their passports updated to travel to the east side).

 

Sick.  I hate crocker

 

That shopping center where Borders was is a standard "stores around a parking lot" old school shopping center.

Yes, we know you don't buy your clothes off the rack, Mr. Tailored Suits.  ::)

 

 

I do buy off the rack, ya evil heifer!  I just don't see the value of a Nordstroms Rack in Cracker Park.....but then again, those people have no taste to begin with.

AMEN!!!

If a Rack is going into Crocker Park, then I'd suggest that a full-scale Nordstrom as part of next Crocker/American Greetings phase is unlikely (not that anyone was saying it would be, but I know Crocker has coveted a department store...) Having both in the same shopping center would seem a first for them. They are usually near - across the street, down the road, etc...  but I've never seen one in the same development - and having a Rack prior to a Nordstrom store would also be the opposite of how Nordstrom normally works.. But I guess we'll see. Any Nordstrom would be their newer 2-level 140,000 or so square foot store - that's pretty much all they've been building in most suburban locations vs. 3 level Beachwood store (215,000 square feet, just remodeled and looks very similar in design to downtown Seattle flagship at this point...)

 

I'd wonder if a regional upscale department store like Von Maur might be a Crocker target...

If Cleveland were to get a new upscale department store (which I really don't see being in the cards) I would like to see a Bloomingdales.  I actually thought Federated might put a Bloomingdales in the Kaufman's in University Hts. during the nation wide "change over" a few years ago when it bought Mays.  It made sense to me since it was just down the street from Beachwood Place with Saks and Nordstroms, and they could have Richmond Mall Macy's serve the Heights.  Instead they just put Macy's in both locations.

I found a Crain's article from 6/2000 that said Crocker was weeks away from securing s letter of intent for a Nordstrom dept store (not Rack) - and that that would help push the development along. Obviously - that was 12 years ago and didn't happen, but...

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20120206/BLOGS03/120209907

 

How does the Galleria, which is actually still open, serve as a poster child for struggling malls? How can someone actually write such blatantly false information when you can shoot a gun inside Randall Park Mall or Euclid Square Mall and not only be certain you won't kill anyone, but no one will even hear the gun go off??

 

I just don't understand how some people can write this crap with a straight face.

 

EDIT:

e-mail Scott at [email protected]

e-mail Stephanie Clifford at [email protected]

^How is this information blatantly false?  The Galleria was and is a struggling mall.  As the article notes, certain retailers have opened in concert with the food production there, but the Galleria is hardly bustling.  I don't find the article to be misleading at all. 

Of course it's struggling, but why would anyone use an open mall as a poster child? Wouldn't a closed mall serve as a better example of struggling malls? To use the Galleria is the example when Randall Park or Euclid Square Mall is nearby is like a guy complaining about his run-down apartment to a homeless man. I just think they could have used better news judgment.

Yes, for a mall that is still open, it certainly is and has been struggling.  Im not sure what Randall and Euclid have to do with it since they closed, so they would be considered formerly struggling.   

I think you're missing the news value here. What is more newsworthy, seeing a man who isn't getting enough to eat or the two corpses left lying there after they died from hunger?

Bad wording for the title, because I think the first sentence says what they're trying to get at:

 

"The New York Times examines the challenged state of shopping malls nationwide, and Cleveland's Galleria at Erieview is Exhibit No. 1 in how owners are trying to remake them." [italics mine]

 

They're using the Galleria as an example of a mall that's experiencing creative reuse.  Which is pretty cool, actually.

Oh c'mon! I was in a real bad mood until you had to cheer me up like that! Damn you!!  :whip:

Dredgers Union, Made in 216 host 'Mom & Pop' event

 

If you think there are no great places to shop in Cleveland, the founders of Dredgers Union suggest you stop by their downtown store this weekend.

 

Danielle DeBoe, who also runs Made in the 216 and the Room Service boutique, and Sean Bilovecky will turn the lower level of their East Fourth Street clothing/lifestyle store into a shopping extravaganza that features more than a dozen local shops.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/style/index.ssf/2012/02/dredgers_union_made_in_216_hos.html

 

Also see the wordpress page...

 

http://dredgersunion.wordpress.com/

 

Read more: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,22979.30.html#ixzz1lnhpcDaC

 

Whole Foods tweeted a few hours ago that they were just awarded permits for a new cleveland location....any ideas?

Whole Foods tweeted a few hours ago that they were just awarded permits for a new cleveland location....any ideas?

 

Gotta be west side like crocker/RR/westlake...there's already 2 on the east side which are not too far apart.

^from a quick google search, I found:

 

"There will be a Whole Foods opening up in Rocky River in a couple years." (July 2010). Just what someone said, who knows the validity or the person's source. was at:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/cleveland/1041301-lakewood-visit-some-what-disappointed-cleveland.html

 

and there's apparently a whole facebook page dedicated to bringing a whole foods to rocky river:

http://www.facebook.com/WholeFoodsRockyRiver

 

interesting.

 

also, a new, organic, no-hormones, natural grocery just opened on Center Ridge Road (in Fairview Park, I think), not too far from the Nature's bin in Lakewood, and not too far from Aldi's and Giant Eagle on the same street (Center Ridge).....so its getting crowded.

^The new store is called "Earth Fare" and its now open.

 

"What Earth Fare will not offer is anything considered unhealthy — high-fructose corn syrup, trans fats, artificial colors, and so forth."

 

http://www.cleveland.com/sunpostherald/index.ssf/2011/02/earth_fare_health_food_store_c.html

 

From the Whole Foods Market, Inc. Earnings Call today, February 8, 2012 5:00 PM ET, for the Quarter ending 1/15/2012:

 

"Since our fourth quarter earnings release, we have signed eight new leases averaging 33,000 square feet in size in Frisco, Colorado; Miami, Florida; Orland Park, Illinois; South Bend, Indiana; Minneapolis, Minnesota; Jackson, Mississippi; Port Chester, New York; and Cleveland, Ohio. Frisco, South Bend and Jackson are all new markets for us. We have signed 34 new leases over the last 12 months and are on track to open between 24 and 27 new stores in fiscal 2012 and 28 to 32 new stores in fiscal 2013. We currently have 69 stores or 2.4 million square feet in development equal to 20% of our 12 million square feet in operation."

 

http://seekingalpha.com/article/352241-whole-foods-market-s-ceo-discusses-f1q2012-results-earnings-call-transcript

 

[okay, I'll stop posting now.]

Maybe in the old Target location on Center Ridge?

I recall Snyder of first Interstate (or somebody associated with him) stating they were trying to get one located in Steelyards a few years back.

My guess...the old Rego's (it is a pretty new building) on Columbia near Detroit in Westlake (although it looks like it is a lot bigger than 33,000 square feet).  Would easily serve upscale Westlake, Rocky River and Bay Village as it is in the center of those markets and it is right off of 90 for those coming from Lorain County looking for a Whole Foods experience.  Could even serve more blue collar North Olmsted very easily since it appears that city is really underserved by grocery stores for such a huge market (ever see the business the Giant Eagle in that city does...I think it is the top selling GE in northeast Ohio).

But then that would'nt be Rocky River.  I was seeing Detroit Road in River, but also Linda Street (which I dont understand where it would go there). 

 

Is there an old Fitworks in one of the Detroit Road shopping centers?  That seems to be the likely location that Im seeing the most (if thats where Im thinking, its kindof an ugly low budget shopping center for a WF). 

*Ah, just saw Linda is across from the Detroit Road Shopping Center with the Fitworks.   

 

It actually would be a boon to get one that close in.  I had been wondering for a couple years now why one hadnt opened near Crocker Park.   

But then that would'nt be Rocky River.  I was seeing Detroit Road in River, but also Linda Street (which I dont understand where it would go there). 

 

Linda Street probably refers to the two vacancies in the old Rockport shopping center - there was a good sized Rini-Rego that closed after the merger, and there is the vacant Target (which was built in place of the vacant Handy Andy/Forest city store)

But then that would'nt be Rocky River.  I was seeing Detroit Road in River, but also Linda Street (which I dont understand where it would go there). 

 

Is there an old Fitworks in one of the Detroit Road shopping centers?  That seems to be the likely location that Im seeing the most (if thats where Im thinking, its kindof an ugly low budget shopping center for a WF). 

*Ah, just saw Linda is across from the Detroit Road Shopping Center with the Fitworks.   

 

It actually would be a boon to get one that close in.  I had been wondering for a couple years now why one hadnt opened near Crocker Park.   

 

The fit works is not closed...there is an old medic drug store in that plaza that is vacant,  but there is 0 percent chance that a wf would go there.  It would be so out of place and such a cluster-f that it would never happen.  The only place in rocky river that I could see would be the old target in the rockport shopping center on center ridge.

 

I'm guessing that the old columbia Reni regos/tops is the most likely spot.  Other spots it could be, but probably won't:  the old giant eagle at bunts and Detroit in Lakewood; the old giant eagle at Clifton and 117th in edgewater.

^the good people of lakewood/cleveland should be served.  I tweeted at whole foods and voiced my opinion.  The bay/westlake/river people have plenty of grocery options and probably dont even care as much about the food they are putting in them.  I vote for 117 and clifton or any westside cleveland neighborhood.  I would be fine with lakewood as well.

The Old Giant Eagle at Bunts and Detroit is likely going to become a new "Marketplace" Giant Eagle. 

 

I would agree the old Reni-Rego/Tops seems a likley place but people are saying they signed a lease for the Fitworks space on Detroit.???

 

I dont think the old target is really the right spot/demographics.   

If the old Giant Eagle at Bunts & Detroit is becoming a Giant Eagle again, what happens to the current Giant Eagle on Bunts that used to be a Tops?

Thats the odd part.  They are saying that it would go through a renovation and reopen and a regular Giant Eagle again, which really makes no sense whatsoever. 

I would think they would close it but dont want to say that now, but I also dont understand, if they were going to just use 1 space why they wouldnt just keep the current one since it has such a big footprint (other than the fact that they can keep one in operation, while the other is going through rebuilding).  The Detroit and Bunts footprint seems too small for space requirements of those Market Place stores...

 

There is an article about I will post if I find again..         

Curious if by "Marketplace" you may mean Giant Eagle "Market District" - their higher end store with all the trimmings, so to speak? If so - the one I've been to in PIT, the first they built, is pretty incredible. I am not a Giant Eagle shopper - but I'd go to that place. Like an amusement park. One side is basic groceries - but the other is Whole Foods+... with gourmet foods/meats and food stations similar to the fantastic Movenpick/Marche restaurant in Toronto (including he Rosti potatoes) to anyone who might be familiar with that.  Probably 80-100K sq ft. (interestingly, they were trying out beer sales at this store in PIT - where beer sales must generally be made at state liquor stores...)

Yeah I meant "Market District".  Im guessing they are trying to be like Wegmans (out of Rochester) which is the darling in the grocery store world (even though GE is claiming the concept is a take on markets in Europe) 

 

FYI, they are about to break ground on a GE Market District in Strongsville (where Honey Hut is) :x

 

Wegmans have been opening all over in the growing outskirts of DC, asnd they are quite an event, but you wont see any opening anywhere near NE Ohio.   

Anybody heard any more Tiffany & Co "opening in Cleveland in 2012" rumors (according to Cbus store)? Any redevelopment rumors for Borders La Place or Joseph-Beth Legacy, etc...? Big, empty visible spaces... Ughhh... Any more Crocker next phase rumors or Nordstrom Rack rumors?

 

 

 

 

Legacy recently announced a round of new tenants...  Tiffany wasnt one of them. 

http://www.legacy-village.com/WhatsNew/2012/2/2/LegacyVillageWelcomesNewRetailers.html

Furniture stores in general have crazy business models. "It's Thomasville's Grand Opening, and we're going out of business!! We have to liquidate everything!! 50-70% off bedroom sets!!! 50-70 percent off three piece sectionals!! 50-70% off the WHOLE STORE!"

Yeah I meant "Market District".  Im guessing they are trying to be like Wegmans (out of Rochester) which is the darling in the grocery store world (even though GE is claiming the concept is a take on markets in Europe) 

 

FYI, they are about to break ground on a GE Market District in Strongsville (where Honey Hut is) :x

 

Wegmans have been opening all over in the growing outskirts of DC, asnd they are quite an event, but you wont see any opening anywhere near NE Ohio.   

 

The Strongsville store has to go to a re-zoning. Part of the property is zoned residential so they aren't breaking ground anytime soon.

 

I seriously question whether Lakewood has enough room for a Market District. I suppose they could build a small one like they have in Shadyside but that's kinda a letdown if you compare it to the other Market Districts. It would be an awesome thing to have and a great lure for Lakewood.

 

Wegmans previously looked at putting stores in NEO but decided against it. All their focus is currently on the East Coast. There are some similarities between Wegmans and Market District but they are pretty distinct from one another. Each has their own specialties and unique features. I was blown away by Market District and I used to do almost all of my shopping at Wegmans when I lived in PA.

Eton is adding a Free People and Allen Edmonds. Very excited about having a full AE store in Cle. Finely made shoes, made in America. Terrific craftsmanship. They only have around 30 stores so its a pretty unique store to add to the region.

http://www.legacy-village.com/WhatsNew/2012/2/2/LegacyVillageWelcomesNewRetailers.html

 

Calico and Thomasville?  ahhh...yeah. (rolls eyes something fierce)

Eton is adding a Free People and Allen Edmonds. Very excited about having a full AE store in Cle. Finely made shoes, made in America. Terrific craftsmanship. They only have around 30 stores so its a pretty unique store to add to the region.

 

They're ok for American made shoes.  They dont excite me.  The boot collection is typically better than the shoes.

^^^^I was in a Wegman's in Buffalo a few years back and was blown away.  Would love to see one in Cleveland but I can see why it is not likely.