March 27, 201213 yr Since the Retail News thread is locked right now - I'm posting this info here. Cleveland is - as several posters, including me, have noted - the most under-served (upscale) retail market in the country. No question. It defies logic that an area of our size is lacking so many retailers and restaurants that are in metros big and small... I don't get it... So, for several years, I've been trying to track (merely as a hobby) how behind the curve NEO is in having not pie-in-the-sky retailers that only hit the biggest cities (Cartier, Bulgari, Prada) - but merely trendy or upscale retailers many of the top 40 metros - and nearly all of the top 20-25 metros - have (such as Tiffany, Container Store IKEA, Puma, etc...). Why metros half our size have 5-10-15 key retailers we don't just doesn't make sense. Why 24 of the top 26 metros have an IKEA or 31 of the top 32 metros have a Tiffany - but not NEO - doesn't make sense... The sad truth is shown on the attached PDF... (all retailers/restaurants that are not currently present in NEO) Enjoy...
March 27, 201213 yr A revamped Tower City aside, between Eton, Legacy, La Place and Beachwood Place - you'd think there were enough similar retailers/prime spaces/vacant spaces to attract other luxury retailers - and that the market size and relative wealth would ensure the job got done. However, Columbus, Indianapolis and Pittsburgh, for starters, have significantly more high-end retailers than Cleveland - and yet their metros can't compare in size, or presumably wealth, to NEO... I just don't get it... Most under-served luxury market in the USA, indeed... Why did phase do fall through? Maybe this already got answered but I didn't see it yet.
March 27, 201213 yr To change the subject, the entire Higbee's side of the sidewalk outside Tower City was closed today. Is this because they are starting to work on fixing up the sidewalks/etc. before the casino opens, or were they just fixing doors? I'm hoping for the former and think it's more logical since they blocked off everything up to the street... A while back there were plans for upgrading the entire entrance of the Casino all the way to the entrance to Tower City, with new lighting, sidewalks, etc. Maybe they are starting???
March 27, 201213 yr To change the subject, the entire Higbee's side of the sidewalk outside Tower City was closed today. Is this because they are starting to work on fixing up the sidewalks/etc. before the casino opens, or were they just fixing doors? I'm hoping for the former and think it's more logical since they blocked off everything up to the street... A while back there were plans for upgrading the entire entrance of the Casino all the way to the entrance to Tower City, with new lighting, sidewalks, etc. Maybe they are starting??? Based on the way that they have closed it all the way to the street and the markings that have been spray painted on the ground this would be my guess. From what I recall it is an improvement, and a much needed one, but not a major overhaul by any means. Feeling to lazy to try and find the plans right now.
March 27, 201213 yr I wonder if this is part of that sidewalk improvement project. https://www.instagram.com/cle_and_beyond/https://www.instagram.com/jbkaufer/
March 27, 201213 yr Yes. That's it. It wasn't major, no, but I think still a significant and welcome improvement.
March 27, 201213 yr Why did phase do fall through? Maybe this already got answered but I didn't see it yet. NM signed their letter of intent in 1989 and construction was scheduled to begin in 1990. Unfortunately, retail and the economy started to fall apart right at that time. This article mentions the TC expansion being stopped - http://www.nytimes.com/1990/12/30/realestate/focus-cleveland-bucking-the-national-trend-on-shopping-malls.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm. Lending for shopping centers dried up after many retailers ran into financial problems. It even impacted NM. In 1991, NM had some very bad quarters. They lost quite a bit of money that year as the recession hit. It was a short issue as NM would go on to have a decent 1992 and open several new stores although their sales were down that year. In the end, the 90s recession pretty much killed that second phase. While NM came out of it, many specialty retailers did not and they were hesitant to expand. In 1994, Beachwood started their expansion and it was probably too late for TC to do anything drastic. Add in the addition of SouthPark and you had quite a bit of new retail coming to NEO all at the same time. I'm not sure the market could've handled more since the Galleria was starting to slip by then and TC had lost some key tenants.
March 27, 201213 yr Since the Retail News thread is locked right now - I'm posting this info here. Cleveland is - as several posters, including me, have noted - the most under-served (upscale) retail market in the country. No question. It defies logic that an area of our size is lacking so many retailers and restaurants that are in metros big and small... I don't get it... So, for several years, I've been trying to track (merely as a hobby) how behind the curve NEO is in having not pie-in-the-sky retailers that only hit the biggest cities (Cartier, Bulgari, Prada) - but merely trendy or upscale retailers many of the top 40 metros - and nearly all of the top 20-25 metros - have (such as Tiffany, Container Store IKEA, Puma, etc...). Why metros half our size have 5-10-15 key retailers we don't just doesn't make sense. Why 24 of the top 26 metros have an IKEA or 31 of the top 32 metros have a Tiffany - but not NEO - doesn't make sense... The sad truth is shown on the attached PDF... (all retailers/restaurants that are not currently present in NEO) Enjoy... This is good stuff! Depressing but good. Maybe these latest rounds of development will cure some of this.
March 28, 201213 yr Since the Retail News thread is locked right now - I'm posting this info here. Cleveland is - as several posters, including me, have noted - the most under-served (upscale) retail market in the country. No question. It defies logic that an area of our size is lacking so many retailers and restaurants that are in metros big and small... I don't get it... So, for several years, I've been trying to track (merely as a hobby) how behind the curve NEO is in having not pie-in-the-sky retailers that only hit the biggest cities (Cartier, Bulgari, Prada) - but merely trendy or upscale retailers many of the top 40 metros - and nearly all of the top 20-25 metros - have (such as Tiffany, Container Store IKEA, Puma, etc...). Why metros half our size have 5-10-15 key retailers we don't just doesn't make sense. Why 24 of the top 26 metros have an IKEA or 31 of the top 32 metros have a Tiffany - but not NEO - doesn't make sense... The sad truth is shown on the attached PDF... (all retailers/restaurants that are not currently present in NEO) Enjoy... I think I love you! The true test is can you shop at any of those stores, on a regular basis, without blinking?
March 28, 201213 yr MyTwoSense - I send the virtual love right back - you know your stuff! I think the fact that I cared enough about these missing retailers/restaurants to compile the list in the first place might answer your question... Bring 'em on! There's a secondary list in my head, also, of the next tier of retailers/restaurants (think Roy's, etc...) that aren't quite "everywhere" enough to be clearly dissing NEO - but when they build a few more locations without hitting NEO, they will be... I've done what I could to share the list with Stark and the other key local players and have tried to get it print media folks hand to get them to delve further into the "why won't these retailers come to NEO" question. It's hard to look at this list and not see we're almost intentionally being overlooked here - with public enemy #1 and #2 being Tiffany (where I'm a very good customer, despite the distance) and IKEA... (FYI - Free People and Allen Edmonds were recently on this list - and formerly, Orvis - but those retailers have all ended up at Eton... so I was able to cross a few off, thankfully...)
March 28, 201213 yr I think I love you! Homo you don't! Lez be on our way! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 28, 201213 yr MyTwoSense - I send the virtual love right back - you know your stuff! I think the fact that I cared enough about these missing retailers/restaurants to compile the list in the first place might answer your question... Bring 'em on! There's a secondary list in my head, also, of the next tier of retailers/restaurants (think Roy's, etc...) that aren't quite "everywhere" enough to be clearly dissing NEO - but when they build a few more locations without hitting NEO, they will be... I've done what I could to share the list with Stark and the other key local players and have tried to get it print media folks hand to get them to delve further into the "why won't these retailers come to NEO" question. It's hard to look at this list and not see we're almost intentionally being overlooked here - with public enemy #1 and #2 being Tiffany (where I'm a very good customer, despite the distance) and IKEA... (FYI - Free People and Allen Edmonds were recently on this list - and formerly, Orvis - but those retailers have all ended up at Eton... so I was able to cross a few off, thankfully...) To be honest, you haven't even scratched the surface of the names of stores that I want!
March 28, 201213 yr The stores I/you want and the ones NEO should already have are two different things. My list just notes what we need to even partially catch up with a city anywhere near our size. The dream list comes after.
March 28, 201213 yr dwirthwein, I don't seem to see the PDF attachment you mentioned above about retailers not in NEO. Am I missing something? Thanks. Edit: I might be having computer problems that won't allow me to see it
March 28, 201213 yr Since the Retail News thread is locked right now - I'm posting this info here. Cleveland is - as several posters, including me, have noted - the most under-served (upscale) retail market in the country. No question. It defies logic that an area of our size is lacking so many retailers and restaurants that are in metros big and small... I don't get it... So, for several years, I've been trying to track (merely as a hobby) how behind the curve NEO is in having not pie-in-the-sky retailers that only hit the biggest cities (Cartier, Bulgari, Prada) - but merely trendy or upscale retailers many of the top 40 metros - and nearly all of the top 20-25 metros - have (such as Tiffany, Container Store IKEA, Puma, etc...). Why metros half our size have 5-10-15 key retailers we don't just doesn't make sense. Why 24 of the top 26 metros have an IKEA or 31 of the top 32 metros have a Tiffany - but not NEO - doesn't make sense... The sad truth is shown on the attached PDF... (all retailers/restaurants that are not currently present in NEO) Enjoy... Thanks, but that is sort of depressing.
March 28, 201213 yr the attachment is there at bottom of my 10:30ish post last night.... or at least i can still see it... (small paper clip icon)
March 28, 201213 yr Thanks for putting that together, dwirth. As someone who hasn't shopped much in the CLE area, I was actually pretty surprised by a lot of those names. Here's hoping some of them show up at Tower City, or elsewhere in the region.
March 28, 201213 yr Well, at least TC has somehow held onto Brooks Bros... and if BB isn't high-end enough for MyTwoSense, I don't think we'll ever reach his economic stratosphere.
March 28, 201213 yr The things that shocks me most about the retail/restaurant list isn't what bigger metros than #16 NEO have - but that the average metro area ranking 17th to 40th has, on average, 14 of these stores/restaurants - even though the average population of that 17th to 40th list is about 1.1MM fewer than NEO... (the average top 20 metro, other than NEO, has 25 or so of these... the 5 closest in size have 20 of these, on average...) It's also interesting to remind all where NEO ranks vs. the rest of the largest metros... This is still a significantly large area - despite the doom-and-gloom spin. It would take some of the fairly fast growing metros 100 years to get close to our population... Look who ranks below - if not WELL below (I'm talking to you "largest city in Ohio" CMH - and you even needed hour-south Chillicothe to magically appear in your metro #s to help boost your population to 2MM. Oh, but wait, Columbus does have 14 of these key retailers that NEO doesn't... Oh well...)
March 28, 201213 yr Folks, leave Columbus, Pittsburgh, Indianapolis, etc out of this thread for comparison sake about CLEVELAND Retail News, thanks. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
March 28, 201213 yr Well, at least TC has somehow held onto Brooks Bros... and if BB isn't high-end enough for MyTwoSense, I don't think we'll ever reach his economic stratosphere. Honestly, Brooks Brother isn't "high end". It's middle of the road. They have some high end product lines, but compared to the brands I wear, it's middle of the road. I'm not your average consumer, I'm a high volume shopaholic. Normally I don't go into boutiques, they send the clothes to me, but this past weekend, my nephew wanted to go shopping since regaining his "freedom". On Sunday, we along with Mr. Fussy Pants, went to so SoHo. What I spent in 5 hours, could probably feed most families for a year or two. So my idea of what "expensive" is, is completely different for the next person. At the same time, I'll use my aunt as an example, she can buy 1k pair of Louboutin's and not bat an eyelash. When she goes in to Saks, they roll out the Red Carpet, management comes out to speak to her. I can't ball with her. There is Cost conscientious (Old Navy, Uniqlo) Budget (JPenney, Kohls, H&M, the GAP, Forever 21) Mid Range (Macy's/Lord & Taylor), Coach, Kenneth Cole, Diesel, Banana Republic) High-End (Some Bloomingdales/Nordstrom, DKNY, Emporio Armani) Luxury (Harvey Nichols, Bergdorf, Prada, Chanel, Hermes) Thats not a definite, as some retail store move up or down based on location. I love to shop and I would prefer to spend my $$$$ in Cleveland instead of other cities. I hope Downtown grows and retailers for every price point invest in our region.
March 28, 201213 yr ^FWIW, I think most shoppers would split your mid-range into at least two sub-categories. Just seems weird to see Coach and, presumably, Brooks Brothers in the same group as Lord & Taylor. I have no idea if national chains are going to resdicover downtown anytime soon, especially outside of Tower City. I'm more optimistic, though, that we could see a small cluster of indy, owner-driven boutiques like Dredgers Union on downtown streets. A few years ago it seemed like one almost emerged in the WHD, if I'm remembering right. Isn't there a smallish cluster like that on Coventry? Something like that might be enough to attract an intrepid national chain or two also. By far the coolest Cleveland retail idea I've seen in a long while was someone in this thread (or the Tower City thread) suggesting an LL Bean in the back of Tower City with actual river frontage for kayak sales. That would be amazing and, I'd guess, a bit of a regional draw for the novelty alone.
March 28, 201213 yr ^FWIW, I think most shoppers would split your mid-range into at least two sub-categories. Just seems weird to see Coach and, presumably, Brooks Brothers in the same group as Lord & Taylor. I have no idea if national chains are going to resdicover downtown anytime soon, especially outside of Tower City. I'm more optimistic, though, that we could see a small cluster of indy, owner-driven boutiques like Dredgers Union on downtown streets. A few years ago it seemed like one almost emerged in the WHD, if I'm remembering right. Isn't there a smallish cluster like that on Coventry? Something like that might be enough to attract an intrepid national chain or two also. By far the coolest Cleveland retail idea I've seen in a long while was someone in this thread (or the Tower City thread) suggesting an LL Bean in the back of Tower City with actual river frontage for kayak sales. That would be amazing and, I'd guess, a bit of a regional draw for the novelty alone. That's why I noted, things could change based on region and location. For instance Macy's on 34 would be in High, considering it deep product line & actual retail space, location, and adjacent retailers. The Macy's at Queens Plaza, is middle of the road at best.
March 28, 201213 yr I personally would be a lot more satisfied if we had Bloomies, Diesel, and Uniqlo. I also love the LL Bean idea as more people kayaking would be awesome.
March 28, 201213 yr By far the coolest Cleveland retail idea I've seen in a long while was someone in this thread (or the Tower City thread) suggesting an LL Bean in the back of Tower City with actual river frontage for kayak sales. That would be amazing and, I'd guess, a bit of a regional draw for the novelty alone. Thank you. Thank you very much. :-)
March 28, 201213 yr MTS. Can we please go shopping together? Actually, can I go shopping with your aunt? :) I would love all of these things to be downtown, but we don't even have a single department store! I think that is crucial. However we can't go from nothing, to Bloomingdale's. I've always wondered if there was ever any effort to get something like a flagship Macy's downtown? With restaurants etc. that sort of thing would be a draw BUT it would have to be large and unique to separate it from its suburban counterparts.
March 28, 201213 yr MTS. Can we please go shopping together? Actually, can I go shopping with your aunt? :) I would love all of these things to be downtown, but we don't even have a single department store! I think that is crucial. However we can't go from nothing, to Bloomingdale's. I've always wondered if there was ever any effort to get something like a flagship Macy's downtown? With restaurants etc. that sort of thing would be a draw BUT it would have to be large and unique to separate it from its suburban counterparts. Actually you want to go shopping with my Cousin (my aunt's youngest daughter)! That girl does not know what a price tag is! Yes lawd. I'm hopping the current downtown economic development will help spur retail development. Again, what is happening in Cleveland now, happened in Philly and DC in 2000/2001/2002 . What has happened on Walnut and Chestnut in Philly could easily happen on Euclid, Prospect and Tower City.
March 28, 201213 yr I'd argue that what's going on in other similiar Midwest cities has EVERYTHING to do with Cleveland retail, as it relates to this board... It defines what's in play for us in future developments - or should, at least... If what's going on in other cities isn't revelant on UO, then kiss all the "Miegs Field" and "Navy Pier" references goodbye on the Lakefront Developmentt thread...
March 28, 201213 yr I'd argue that what's going on in other similiar Midwest cities has EVERYTHING to do with Cleveland retail, as it relates to this board... It defines what's in play for us in future developments - or should, at least... If what's going on in other cities isn't revelant on UO, then kiss all the "Miegs Field" and "Navy Pier" references goodbye on the Lakefront Developmentt thread... Then you will suffer MayDay's wrath! You've been warned. LOL
March 28, 201213 yr I'd argue that what's going on in other similiar Midwest cities has EVERYTHING to do with Cleveland retail, as it relates to this board... It defines what's in play for us in future developments - or should, at least... If what's going on in other cities isn't revelant on UO, then kiss all the "Miegs Field" and "Navy Pier" references goodbye on the Lakefront Developmentt thread... That's a slippery slope. It's logical to compare a city's retail scene with a similar city. But we all know that leads to: Look who ranks below - if not WELL below (I'm talking to you "largest city in Ohio" CMH - and you even needed hour-south Chillicothe to magically appear in your metro #s to help boost your population to 2MM. ...which has nothing to do with retail in Cleveland. If forumers can keep it strictly "Easton has this and therefore Crocker Park should have it as well due to similar sized cities, etc" then that would be fine. But this is UrbanOhio. That's never the case. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
March 29, 201213 yr Agreed; if forumers can't make a point without making a dig at another city, they'll get some time off. clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
March 29, 201213 yr I dont think that there is any room for insults here, but basic voice of opinion as it pertains to the stark contrasts of the cities should be discussed. Like it or not, Columbus is definitely the outcast between the 3 C's. They have built up this megatropolis of suburban living with outdoor malls within the city limits and the basic Ohioan who has never been out of Ohio thinks that this is what a city should look like. That is fine if that is what is desired, but it the success of Easton definitely inspired Legacy and Crocker. Obviously, we all wish that this went down differently.
March 29, 201213 yr "Voicing an opinion" can bring consequences positively or negatively. Believe it or not (no pun intended), there are ways to compare cities without "digging" on them. For example, in this thread discussing retail, one could say "I notice in Columbus/Pittsburgh/Indianapolis/Charlotte/Bakersfield, CA that they have _____ and I feel that we could write to ____ in order to get a store like that in Shaker Square/Larchmere/W 25th/Peninsula. Or, "In Pittsburgh, they have this thing called Southside Works which is _____ and is a good model for something in _____." Blah blah blah, you get the point. That's positive, constructive comparisons. Where it gets negative is when people start saying: Like it or not, Columbus is definitely the outcast between the 3 C's. They have built up this megatropolis of suburban living with outdoor malls within the city limits and the basic Ohioan who has never been out of Ohio thinks that this is what a city should look like. ...which is a comment that could easily be deconstructed but "not going there" is the point to begin with. Again, it is natural to compare cities and that's perfectly fine. Start down a road of "like it or not..." and it starts to get murky. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
March 29, 201213 yr I know you don't. :) I'm just helping folks understand that even with opinions they have to be careful on what they say. Believe me, what you say can be taken negatively even if you don't mean it. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
April 4, 201213 yr The Viking Store in Legacy Village is closing Awww. That place is in the wrong place. That store should have been a part of a showroom series of store NOT located in a retail center.
April 4, 201213 yr Suprised Viking made it through the housing crisis and closes now once people are begining to spend money on their homes again. Lots of turnover at Legacy it seems, although they do fill any vacancies fairly quickly. I would gather to say that maybe 60-75% of the original tenants have since closed or been rebranded at some point.
April 4, 201213 yr Suprised Viking made it through the housing crisis and closes now once people are begining to spend money on their homes again. Lots of turnover at Legacy it seems, although they do fill any vacancies fairly quickly. I would gather to say that maybe 60-75% of the original tenants have since closed or been rebranded at some point. The whole thing can close if you want my opinion!
April 4, 201213 yr I find it comical how on Wikipedia's list of leading shopping streets you'll find Cedar. Granted I think if the stores near cedar were lining the street like Michigan Ave, there could be some conversation about adding it to that list.
April 4, 201213 yr Other than their cooking school, Viking Store is very gadget, cookware and small appliance focused, like nearby Williams-Sonoma. That I am sure made it tough to compete. Though they do show Viking appliances, and I think now sell them, for the first several years there, they I believe couldn't sell them, just show them and refer consumers to a distributor. Legacy Village has had it tough... at least 1 space has never been occupied in the nearly 9 years since opening, others have taken years, including the 3+ years vacant Talbots Men's space and very visible 1.5 yr old Joseph-Beth space.. Much turnover.... However, not all has to do with Legacy-specific results. At one time several years ago, I do remember counting that something 12-15 original or not long after opening tenants had corporately gone out of business, shut all stores or shut huge chunks of stores. EXPO, Old Thyme Herbs, Galyans, Z Galleries, Bombay, Bombay Kids, Talbots Men's, Talbots Kids, Norwalk, Acorn,Sigrid Olsen, Oshkosh, Ritz Camera, etc.... are all examples...
April 4, 201213 yr ^"Old Thyme Herbs"? I want to met the banker who OK'ed that business plan. :wink: I believe it was financed by Dawes Tomes Mousley Grubbs Fidelity Fiduciary Bank
April 4, 201213 yr Other than their cooking school, Viking Store is very gadget, cookware and small appliance focused, like nearby Williams-Sonoma. That I am sure made it tough to compete. Though they do show Viking appliances, and I think now sell them, for the first several years there, they I believe couldn't sell them, just show them and refer consumers to a distributor. Legacy Village has had it tough... at least 1 space has never been occupied in the nearly 9 years since opening, others have taken years, including the 3+ years vacant Talbots Men's space and very visible 1.5 yr old Joseph-Beth space.. Much turnover.... However, not all has to do with Legacy-specific results. At one time several years ago, I do remember counting that something 12-15 original or not long after opening tenants had corporately gone out of business, shut all stores or shut huge chunks of stores. EXPO, Old Thyme Herbs, Galyans, Z Galleries, Bombay, Bombay Kids, Talbots Men's, Talbots Kids, Norwalk, Acorn,Sigrid Olsen, Oshkosh, Ritz Camera, etc.... are all examples... Many of these retailers are around. I personally think the "lifestyle center" has a bad product mix.
April 4, 201213 yr ^^Add a few more smaller clothing stores to that list as well as the restaurant that was where Bar Louie is now and you're getting there. Heather's Heat + Flavor closed in January as well. A major factor in the large turnover numbers at Legacy was this: when Legacy opened, Americans were still spending freely and building new homes, etc. Retailers were eagerly bringing new concepts to the market anxious to increase sales and profits (Home Depot's EXPO & Talbot's Men's, for example). This obviously ended pretty quickly and these new concepts had to shut their doors. Also, several of the retailers at Legacy went through BK or closed lots of locations nationwide, so it wasn't anything wrong with Legacy itself (Bombay, Ritz, Galyan's acquired by Dick's, etc) Even still, it has one of the only Apple stores in NEOH and is located in a one of the wealthiest areas of the state, so it will be fine.
April 4, 201213 yr ^^Add a few more smaller clothing stores to that list as well as the restaurant that was where Bar Louie is now and you're getting there. Heather's Heat + Flavor closed in January as well. A major factor in the large turnover numbers at Legacy was this: when Legacy opened, Americans were still spending freely and building new homes, etc. Retailers were eagerly bringing new concepts to the market anxious to increase sales and profits (Home Depot's EXPO & Talbot's Men's, for example). This obviously ended pretty quickly and these new concepts had to shut their doors. Also, several of the retailers at Legacy went through BK or closed lots of locations nationwide, so it wasn't anything wrong with Legacy itself (Bombay, Ritz, Galyan's acquired by Dick's, etc) Even still, it has the only Apple store in NEOH and is located in a one of the wealthiest areas of the state, so it will be fine. EXPO wasn't a new concept, they were trying to grow it. Nor was Talbot's men (or baby). Talbots went away from their core market and tried to emulate the GAP as one of the GAPs Sr. execs went there. I would be happy if C&B and Apple store moved downtown. I'm just sayin'!
April 4, 201213 yr ^"Old Thyme Herbs"? I want to met the banker who OK'ed that business plan. :wink: I believe it was financed by Dawes Tomes Mousley Grubbs Fidelity Fiduciary Bank Funny. We actually thought the same about Penzy's Spices, but there seem to be several now, so must be doing ok... * I have not actually been in one yet.
April 4, 201213 yr MyTwoSense - you are right about those stores currently operating in some cases - but I did note some chains closed "large chunks of stores" - with Legacy being part of that... (not just Legacy-specific)... Here's some background: - Z Gallerie closed all 4 Ohio stores (along with 21 others, 1/3 of their total stores at time) in Feb 2009 - Sept 2008 - Norwalk closed all company-owned stores - and then new owner came in and took over.Tthere are now some Norwalk stores open again. - Oshkosh - all non-outlet "lifestyle" stores like those at Legacy were announced to close by end of 2005 when new owner Carter's took over and these didn't fit with their mix. There may now be Oshkosh stores again. - Ritz Camera - 300 of 700 stors nationwise were close April 2009 - including Legacy and I forgot Joseph-Beth... 5(?) of 8 J-B stores were closed in 2010 and 2011 when company went bankrupt (Charlotte and Nashville have already been turned into Container Stores, FYI - Conatiner Store originally announced for Legacy but never built - and Legacy Joseph-Beth remains vacant) -
April 4, 201213 yr MyTwoSense - you are right about those stores currently operating in some cases - but I did note some chains closed "large chunks of stores" - with Legacy being part of that... (not just Legacy-specific)... Here's some background: - Z Gallerie closed all 4 Ohio stores (along with 21 others, 1/3 of their total stores at time) in Feb 2009 - Sept 2008 - Norwalk closed all company-owned stores - and then new owner came in and took over.Tthere are now some Norwalk stores open again. - Oshkosh - all non-outlet "lifestyle" stores like those at Legacy were announced to close by end of 2005 when new owner Carter's took over and these didn't fit with their mix. There may now be Oshkosh stores again. - Ritz Camera - 300 of 700 stors nationwise were close April 2009 - including Legacy and I forgot Joseph-Beth... 5(?) of 8 J-B stores were closed in 2010 and 2011 when company went bankrupt (Charlotte and Nashville have already been turned into Container Stores, FYI - Conatiner Store originally announced for Legacy but never built - and Legacy Joseph-Beth remains vacant) - I know all that lol. Trust me, I'm a retail whore! :wink2:
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