^ if I'm not mistaken, the JNY is closing because the company is closing all of its outlet stores, and this location was considered that. I don't believe it was a safety issue or anything to do with the mall itself.

Except that Jones New York went out EVERYWHERE... so despite some of what you say being true issues, none of that affected JNY closing.

I really loved going to Tower City in the 1990s, making my parents take me to the Disney Store among other places.

 

"Come on down to the Avenue-hoo!"

 

Great marketing campaign, they had.

The problem legit stores like JNY face is more geared to Forest City's poor management and lack of promotion than irrational fears of crime.  With that kind of mentality, no retail will be successful downtown because poor people and the  homeless, including young kids of color (the biggest fear for E Rocc and others of this mentality) are all over downtown.  If you eat at Chipotle and sit in the window, you'll see such individuals pour off the HL, for example, at 2nd & Euclid  every time and inbound bus comes into Public Sq.  Bottom line is that somebody needs to take TC off FCE's hands ... immediately, or this negative retail momentum will not turn around.

 

Well I couldn't do my part time job if I was "afraid" of them, but I will say that in the case of a lot of potential customers it's more "discomfort" than fear.  Particularly women. 

 

I doubt this level of discomfort has changed much since the late 90s.  So, what has?

Well I couldn't do my part time job if I was "afraid" of them, but I will say that in the case of a lot of potential customers it's more "discomfort" than fear.  Particularly women. 

 

I doubt this level of discomfort has changed much since the late 90s.  So, what has?

 

My point is that these TC stores are likely not closing because people -- mostly women in the case of Jones New York -- and their fear of TC's customers and commuters.  If this  kind of fear is a factor, how come so many professionals are both moving to or visiting downtown these days in much higher numbers than in recent decades?  How could restaurants like Lola, or Morton's or Red or San Souci even survive?  Why then should these people fear TC, which is very well policed, just because it's got rapid transit underneath it? ... The problem is FCE not the commuters going in and out of TC Rapid station. The problem is Forest City Enterprises... Why can't FCE allow those folding type street signs around Public Sq., Ontario, Prospect,  and elsewhere nearby, to advertise places like Jones... or other  places?  And that's just 1 marketing technique. 

^Honestly, because I think FCE would like to see the value of the mall continue to drop to lure the eyes of investors that want to redevelop it into something else.  FCE has plenty of experience in developing successful malls.  They know how to market them as good as anyone. 

^^ You're absolutely right that FCE is the problem. A new developer could make a huge difference.

 

I also think it's ridiculous when people accuse the RTA stop as having anything to do with the decline of Tower City. All urban malls experienced a quick decline in the last couple decades. It's well-known national trend. Remember Columbus City Center? Within a couple decades, the entire structure was leveled - and this happened in a city with a growing population. I think the RTA station is actually one of the reasons that Tower City never met the same fate as Columbus City Center.

^^ You're absolutely right that FCE is the problem. A new developer could make a huge difference.

 

I also think it's ridiculous when people accuse the RTA stop as having anything to do with the decline of Tower City. All urban malls experienced a quick decline in the last couple decades. It's well-known national trend. Remember Columbus City Center? Within a couple decades, the entire structure was leveled - and this happened in a city with a growing population. I think the RTA station is actually one of the reasons that Tower City never met the same fate as Columbus City Center.

 

Or, locally, the Galleria.

^^ You're absolutely right that FCE is the problem. A new developer could make a huge difference.

 

I also think it's ridiculous when people accuse the RTA stop as having anything to do with the decline of Tower City. All urban malls experienced a quick decline in the last couple decades. It's well-known national trend. Remember Columbus City Center? Within a couple decades, the entire structure was leveled - and this happened in a city with a growing population. I think the RTA station is actually one of the reasons that Tower City never met the same fate as Columbus City Center.

 

Hhmmm, we might have a contradiction here.

 

But really, you may be right FCE needs to freshen up their approach.  A leasing program like that of the 5th street arcades might do better to get more experimental local retail into the spaces although I think we're a good deal off from seeing a national chain resurgence at TC.  But undergirding TC's leasing problems is the very real population shifts and the shopping trends that follow (retail follows rooftops).  I doubt any of that is liable to change any time soon and that is certainly is out of FCE's hands.

 

Any developer is going to face some serious market limitations for city center retail in non-coastal cities, especially with a property the size of TC.

 

^Honestly, because I think FCE would like to see the value of the mall continue to drop to lure the eyes of investors that want to redevelop it into something else.  FCE has plenty of experience in developing successful malls.  They know how to market them as good as anyone. 

 

I think this is kind of silly.  FCE is actively trying to sell their stake in TC (note: not terminal tower).  A drop in value does not help them in any way and I think they are pretty uninterested in a big redevelopment project in Cleveland.

 

 

Realistically, TC is at best is going to be a mid-level to lower mid-level retail center.  It has some great assets: on transit line, location, connected to the casino and office space but it will probably never be returned to it's first iteration as a regional top-tier destination mall, at least not in the next couple decades.  Being a mid-level retail center shouldn't be looked at as an abject failure though.  I think the mall actually functions pretty well - we just have to adjust expectations to the market position it finds itself in.

 

 

 

FCE is just a poor property management company, at least viz TC.

FCE is just a poor property management company, at least viz TC.

 

With regards to what exactly?  Maintenance, security, cleanliness, leasing?  By no means am I defending FCE in their entirety but that's an empirical claim.

At the very least, you have to admit the Ratners have an image problem with Tower City. It does feel like they gave up on trying to lease the stores to reputable businesses, and are focusing their attentions on projects anywhere but Cleveland.

Have you been in Tower City's bathroom by the food court? It's the second worst bathroom I've ever been in next to one of the bathrooms at the Atlanta airport. It was atrocious and smelled disgusting. Granted, it's now been a few years since I've been in there so the bathroom may have improved. If I have to go whilst I'm in TC, I'll duck into one of the attached restaurant bathrooms.

The food court is pretty cramped.

FCE is just a poor property management company, at least viz TC.

 

With regards to what exactly?  Maintenance, security, cleanliness, leasing?  By no means am I defending FCE in their entirety but that's an empirical claim.

 

Maintenance, at times, have been shaky, esp regarding the condition of TC's bathrooms.  My point, though, is more geared toward promoting it's TC tenants and attracting customers into their stores.

Meanwhile, Philly recently announced a smaller version of Target, TargetExpress, is moving into Center City.  We've heard the stories about population metrics and blah-blah-blah, but are  we sure such a store couldn't make it in downtown Cleveland?

 

TargetExpress store planned for part of Boyd site at 19th & Chestnut

 

By Jacob Adelman, Inquirer Staff Writer

POSTED: June 17, 2015

Target Corp. will open in miniature at the Boyd Theater development site, tapping Center City's growing base of workers and residents amid the retailer's nationwide introduction of smaller shops tailored to urban storefronts.

 

The Minneapolis-based company will open a TargetExpress store at 19th and Chestnut Streets in July 2016, offering fresh groceries, cellphone supplies, beauty items, and other goods in a retail building near the 1920s-era movie palace's facade, company spokeswoman Erika Winkels said Monday.

 

More TargetExpress stores may follow, with the company said to be eyeing at least one other Center City location.

 

Target's planned entry into central Philadelphia follows a February announcement that it would open eight TargetExpress stores this year in the San Francisco Bay area, Chicago, and other urban locations.

 

"They could go into densely populated areas of Philadelphia, Chicago, San Francisco and be very profitable and productive with walk-in trade from people working in the neighborhood as well as people living in the neighborhood," said Burt Flickinger III, managing director of the retail consultant Strategic Resource Group in New York.

 

Philadelphia's store will be 21,000 square feet over two floors, about 16 percent as big as a typical Target store, Winkels said. The 19th and Chestnut location places it in the Raymond Pace Alexander building, a historic two-story structure that would be enlarged through construction of an adjacent three-story retail building, according to the most recent plans.

 

http://articles.philly.com/2015-06-17/business/63488348_1_typical-target-store-target-corp-boyd-theater

Have you been in Tower City's bathroom by the food court? It's the second worst bathroom I've ever been in next to one of the bathrooms at the Atlanta airport. It was atrocious and smelled disgusting. Granted, it's now been a few years since I've been in there so the bathroom may have improved. If I have to go whilst I'm in TC, I'll duck into one of the attached restaurant bathrooms.

 

Here is a little tip for you, avoid ALL 'foodcourt bathrooms' ...this also includes transit stations, amusement parks and any Browns/Steelers games...

Have you been in Tower City's bathroom by the food court? It's the second worst bathroom I've ever been in next to one of the bathrooms at the Atlanta airport. It was atrocious and smelled disgusting. Granted, it's now been a few years since I've been in there so the bathroom may have improved. If I have to go whilst I'm in TC, I'll duck into one of the attached restaurant bathrooms.

 

Here is a little tip for you, avoid ALL 'foodcourt bathrooms' ...this also includes transit stations, amusement parks and any Browns/Steelers games...

 

The Beachwood foodcourt bathrooms are like a palace, second only to the grandeur of Nordstrom!  :wink:

As someone who has no choice but to use public bathrooms like those in food courts, I agree the TC ones are not very good, and are very, very, very terrible to get to. Think of how far you have to go from the front entrance to get to the bathrooms. This is ridiculous, especially if you're someone who has to go a lot or who has little kids. AFAIK that's the only public bathroom in the mall as well, and it seriously couldn't be more inconveniently located. I understand there are laws that require it to be near a food court, but there really should be bathrooms closer than that somehow. At least with the galleria, if you are walking down E 9th and need a bathroom quickly, you can pop in and get to the bathroom almost immediately. It's not fancy but it's fine.

 

Women who shop at lunch are really shopping for very small items and mostly out of necessity. If your heel broke, you need a new pair of shoes. Or you have to buy shoelaces or pantyhose or your purse strap broke and you need a new purse because you're going out after work and won't have time to go home first. An umbrella because it's raining. Sunglasses because yours broke. New underwear or tampons because your period came unexpectedly. Cards and small gifts because of birthdays, sympathy cards, maybe a small housewarming present. They're not going to buy four new outfits and three pair of shoes and carry all that stuff through downtown back to their desk, and then schlep it to their car or on the train to go home if they have another, easier option, which is their local mall. The target express concept is a great idea, depending on what they sell. 99% of my non-food downtown purchases have been at Steelyard Target, and I couldn't go there before I got the job I have now as you can't move your car easily from a lot of the lots as they are parked in until end of the day, and if you're not monthly, you'd have to pay a 2nd time to re-enter. If they want to draw women shoppers, they need to concentrate on what they'd be buying, which is not clothes at JNY, it's more like stuff sold in target. IDK what the express store is going to sell as a complete line, but I think that would be a very popular store downtown here.

As someone who has no choice but to use public bathrooms like those in food courts, I agree the TC ones are not very good, and are very, very, very terrible to get to. Think of how far you have to go from the front entrance to get to the bathrooms. This is ridiculous, especially if you're someone who has to go a lot or who has little kids. AFAIK that's the only public bathroom in the mall as well, and it seriously couldn't be more inconveniently located. I understand there are laws that require it to be near a food court, but there really should be bathrooms closer than that somehow. At least with the galleria, if you are walking down E 9th and need a bathroom quickly, you can pop in and get to the bathroom almost immediately. It's not fancy but it's fine.

 

Women who shop at lunch are really shopping for very small items and mostly out of necessity. If your heel broke, you need a new pair of shoes. Or you have to buy shoelaces or pantyhose or your purse strap broke and you need a new purse because you're going out after work and won't have time to go home first. An umbrella because it's raining. Sunglasses because yours broke. New underwear or tampons because your period came unexpectedly. Cards and small gifts because of birthdays, sympathy cards, maybe a small housewarming present. They're not going to buy four new outfits and three pair of shoes and carry all that stuff through downtown back to their desk, and then schlep it to their car or on the train to go home if they have another, easier option, which is their local mall. The target express concept is a great idea, depending on what they sell. 99% of my non-food downtown purchases have been at Steelyard Target, and I couldn't go there before I got the job I have now as you can't move your car easily from a lot of the lots as they are parked in until end of the day, and if you're not monthly, you'd have to pay a 2nd time to re-enter. If they want to draw women shoppers, they need to concentrate on what they'd be buying, which is not clothes at JNY, it's more like stuff sold in target. IDK what the express store is going to sell as a complete line, but I think that would be a very popular store downtown here.

 

It also might make sense to have some sort of delivery system:  possibly you pull into a small driveway and show an attendant your ticket and he putsyour package in your back seat.  Or potentially even UPS to your house.  It's not the least bit sexist to say many women shop recreationally while most guys are in-and-out focused.  It's reality. 

 

The bathrooms were likely set deeper into the mall on purpose, to de-facilitate their use by non shoppers.

Delivery system is great if it's something you're taking home right away but most downtown workers cannot move their cars during the day. Surface lots are a nightmare to get your car out of, I know, because I have a lot of doctors appointments and had to do it all the time. You are parked in and have to wait while one guy gets keys and moves at least one or two cars, possibly three, so you can get out. And many people don't pay a monthly rate and just pay the day rate, and then you have to pay twice to come back. And if the lot is full, which a lot of them are, you have to park somewhere else when you come back. Driving through to pick up purchases isn't really applicable to most downtown shoppers I think. Heinen's being the exception.

 

No women I know would shop in person and then have to wait for delivery to their home. If they have an immediate need for something, they go buy it right away. If they can wait for delivery, they shop online.

Delivery system is great if it's something you're taking home right away but most downtown workers cannot move their cars during the day. Surface lots are a nightmare to get your car out of, I know, because I have a lot of doctors appointments and had to do it all the time. You are parked in and have to wait while one guy gets keys and moves at least one or two cars, possibly three, so you can get out. And many people don't pay a monthly rate and just pay the day rate, and then you have to pay twice to come back. And if the lot is full, which a lot of them are, you have to park somewhere else when you come back. Driving through to pick up purchases isn't really applicable to most downtown shoppers I think. Heinen's being the exception.

 

No women I know would shop in person and then have to wait for delivery to their home. If they have an immediate need for something, they go buy it right away. If they can wait for delivery, they shop online.

 

Good point on the "in person".  Holly would have done it a few years ago but she has discovered online shopping  (ouch).

^Btw, regular Targets are all over, in and around Philly, so obviously Dayton-Hudson doesn't feel like this new store will compete with, or weaken their other outlets... Granted, we are talking about a city with 1.5 million in its City proper, but I wonder if a TargetExpress downtown will hurt the ones in Steelyards and W. 117th.

As someone who has no choice but to use public bathrooms like those in food courts, I agree the TC ones are not very good, and are very, very, very terrible to get to. Think of how far you have to go from the front entrance to get to the bathrooms. This is ridiculous, especially if you're someone who has to go a lot or who has little kids. AFAIK that's the only public bathroom in the mall as well, and it seriously couldn't be more inconveniently located. I understand there are laws that require it to be near a food court, but there really should be bathrooms closer than that somehow. At least with the galleria, if you are walking down E 9th and need a bathroom quickly, you can pop in and get to the bathroom almost immediately. It's not fancy but it's fine.

 

Women who shop at lunch are really shopping for very small items and mostly out of necessity. If your heel broke, you need a new pair of shoes. Or you have to buy shoelaces or pantyhose or your purse strap broke and you need a new purse because you're going out after work and won't have time to go home first. An umbrella because it's raining. Sunglasses because yours broke. New underwear or tampons because your period came unexpectedly. Cards and small gifts because of birthdays, sympathy cards, maybe a small housewarming present. They're not going to buy four new outfits and three pair of shoes and carry all that stuff through downtown back to their desk, and then schlep it to their car or on the train to go home if they have another, easier option, which is their local mall. The target express concept is a great idea, depending on what they sell. 99% of my non-food downtown purchases have been at Steelyard Target, and I couldn't go there before I got the job I have now as you can't move your car easily from a lot of the lots as they are parked in until end of the day, and if you're not monthly, you'd have to pay a 2nd time to re-enter. If they want to draw women shoppers, they need to concentrate on what they'd be buying, which is not clothes at JNY, it's more like stuff sold in target. IDK what the express store is going to sell as a complete line, but I think that would be a very popular store downtown here.

 

Just an FYI, tower city also has rest rooms about halfway into the mall on the South East side near the convenient store. Its condition is just as bad as the ones near the food court though.

good to know. I actually don't know where the convenience store is. I pop in very occasionally to go to the popcorn store there but since I don't work in downtown proper, I don't go to TC much as finding a nearby place to park is a bear. I feel like I've seen it though. It's probably right next to the popcorn store. Ha.

"each Northeast Ohio resident had 39 square feet of retail, more than double the national average of 16.5."

 

"From 2000 to 2007 the amount of retail space in Northeast Ohio grew 22%, while population dropped about 1%"

 

SOURCE:

Northeast Ohio's retail gluttony: old malls rot while new shopping centers sprawl

http://www.cleveland.com/akron/index.ssf/2015/08/the_trash_of_northeast_ohio_ol.html

 

 

^Seeing that open farmland just around 2 decades ago where Crocker Park now sits, is the epitome of sprawl.  Crocker Park may have mixed use apartments over stores on a Main Street, but it's a made up "town" at the edge of the County.  Bad; very bad.

Aren't all towns "made up"? Isn't Chagrin Falls at the edge of the county?

 

There is a difference between a town, like Chagrin Falls, that developed as a separate town when Cleveland was still a small early 19th century port own itself.  All major cities have suburban areas outside the main core city.  However, there's a difference with places like Crocker Park, that was created by Bob Stark as a retail development with housing attached on undeveloped land in a region badly hemorrhaging population; the worst kind of sprawl: expanded land use with a shrinking population.  And Crocker has a number of quality stores that draw shoppers and shopping away from downtown Cleveland, which is still struggling to get quality retail (Jones New York just closed in Tower City last week).

 

Unlike Europe and even some Canadian Cities like Montreal, satellite cities often have developed around a rail station and are compact with mixed use cores.  And in many if not most cases, there's still lots of green space in between towns.  Here in Cleveland we had better examples in the early 20th century: Shaker Heights obviously is a satellite city that was designed around rail transit.  So where other older cities like Cleveland Hts and Lakewood, which are also admired as generally people-centric (as opposed to cars), and walkable.

 

But in this country green space too often equals the opportunity to grow and zoning goes out the window. And usually these areas are near some interstate or other freeway that chops up inner city neighborhoods (don't Tremonters just love I-71?), but provides suburbanites a chance for a quick escape downtown after work.  In Cleveland, we keep building full freeways (the Jennings) and freeway lites (the Opportunity Corridor)... The plan to downsize the Shoreway into a boulevard, though, is clearly a step in the right direction.

 

Crocker Park is clearly a child of the freeway.  Because of the mixed uses Crocker Park is somewhat better than most similar developments, but sorry, I'm still not a fan...

Blame him for a lot of things, but Crocker isn't remotely drawing away shopping from downtown. Perhaps from other west side suburban malls, but Tower City, the Galleria, and lower Euclid were well into their advanced retail decline when Crocker was getting developed. Downtown wasn't getting those stores in the early 2000s anyway..

Blame him for a lot of things, but Crocker isn't remotely drawing away shopping from downtown. Perhaps from other west side suburban malls, but Tower City, the Galleria, and lower Euclid were well into their advanced retail decline when Crocker was getting developed. Downtown wasn't getting those stores in the early 2000s anyway..

 

You have a point, there.  I'm still not crazy about places like Crocker Park because they add to greater Cleveland's sprawl when the region's population is declining (and Cleveland proper was 2nd highest in population loss behind Detroit) and downtown was really hurting -- in the early 2000s when CP opened, downtown Cleveland was at about it's lowest point in my lifetime. ... But of course, is Stark is successful with either 515 and nuCLEus (hopefully both), all will be forgiven, at least in my eyes.

It looks like they're finally clearing the space out in Orange for the Pinecrest development

Vomit vomit vomit

I can't find the news story, but a relative just told me that TJ Maxx is pulling out of University Square and heading over to Oakwood Commons. So if true, essentially Oakwood Commons hasn't drawn a major tenant of its own yet which still makes me curious why it was needed in the first place.

It looks like they're finally clearing the space out in Orange for the Pinecrest development

 

Great! I can't wait to see the list of stores they'll be poaching from Beachwood Place, Eton, and Legacy. That seems to be how things work around this side of town. (See above post.)

 

Of course I strongly believe that none of this would be possible without all of these little suburb/fiefdoms that we have in Cuyahoga County that are hellbent on racing each other to the bottom at the expense of the region as a whole.

I can't find the news story, but a relative just told me that TJ Maxx is pulling out of University Square and heading over to Oakwood Commons. So if true, essentially Oakwood Commons hasn't drawn a major tenant of its own yet which still makes me curious why it was needed in the first place.

 

I hate this constant East Side store poaching.  Nobody wins ultimately.  The damn store is literally moving just down the street. Big victory for S. Euclid  at the expense of its neighbor, University Hts?  Really??  ...  TJ Maxx's bolting University Square is yet another major dagger to this 15-year-old complex that nobody seems to like.  The idea of grouping a bunch of stores under one roof with garage parking wasn't a bad one... It sits at a major retail crossroads for the Heights with historical significance.  Oakwood Commons may be the new kid on the block but, really, it's just another typical car-oriented, off-street, big box, strip mall.  We'd be better off if the old golf course had remained there imho.  Why do we need so many shopping centers within a few miles of each other in an area of population decline?

TJ Maxx/HomeGoods have been on the leasing map for Oakwood Commons for probably a year. Don't know if ever announced officially.  Let's face it.. University Square has been a disaster. I know Target has been looking to move... even if down the street. People don't like the crumbling garage et... Here is Oakwood info:

 

http://goodmanrealestate.com/properties/oakwood-commons.html

 

As for Eton, Legacy, Beachwood, Pinerest poaching, etc... "Population decline" or not there are still 3.5 MM potential people within an hour or so and they border on the state's wealthiest areas. Retailers want in and want competitors nearby. For better or worse, the existing development have squeezed in about as much as they can already.. Unlike Easton or Polaris in Columbus, built decades after Beachwood and the original Eton, CLE east side doesn't have huge wide open land to build/to have built one massive shopping center on.. So we get 4 to provide the stores and restaurants many consumers (me included) want. Let's not confuse another TJ Maxx moving down street to the pnly Crate&Barrel or Tiffany & Co in the region etc.

 

I

 

TJ Maxx/HomeGoods have been on the leasing map for Oakwood Commons for probably a year. Don't know if ever announced officially.  Let's face it.. University Square has been a disaster. I know Target has been looking to move... even if down the street. People don't like the crumbling garage et... Here is Oakwood info:

 

http://goodmanrealestate.com/properties/oakwood-commons.html

 

As for Eton, Legacy, Beachwood, Pinerest poaching, etc... "Population decline" or not there are still 3.5 MM potential people within an hour or so and they border on the state's wealthiest areas. Retailers want in and want competitors nearby. For better or worse, the existing development have squeezed in about as much as they can already.. Unlike Easton or Polaris in Columbus, built decades after Beachwood and the original Eton, CLE east side doesn't have huge wide open land to build/to have built one massive shopping center on.. So we get 4 to provide the stores and restaurants many consumers (me included) want. Let's not confuse another TJ Maxx moving down street to the pnly Crate&Barrel or Tiffany & Co in the region etc.

 

I

 

 

So typical of the sprawl attitude around here: "What's in it for me?"

 

 

 

So typical of the sprawl attitude around here: "What's in it for me?"

 

Yep, sorry... I don't recycle either...  That probably kills you...

I'm with Eyehrtfood, there are retailers I want here that we don't have and this is how we have to get them please don't as he said compare stuff like a home goods store to the regions only Crate & Barrel and Tiffany's as he said

TJ Maxx/HomeGoods have been on the leasing map for Oakwood Commons for probably a year. Don't know if ever announced officially.  Let's face it.. University Square has been a disaster. I know Target has been looking to move... even if down the street. People don't like the crumbling garage et... Here is Oakwood info:

 

http://goodmanrealestate.com/properties/oakwood-commons.html

 

As for Eton, Legacy, Beachwood, Pinerest poaching, etc... "Population decline" or not there are still 3.5 MM potential people within an hour or so and they border on the state's wealthiest areas. Retailers want in and want competitors nearby. For better or worse, the existing development have squeezed in about as much as they can already.. Unlike Easton or Polaris in Columbus, built decades after Beachwood and the original Eton, CLE east side doesn't have huge wide open land to build/to have built one massive shopping center on.. So we get 4 to provide the stores and restaurants many consumers (me included) want. Let's not confuse another TJ Maxx moving down street to the pnly Crate&Barrel or Tiffany & Co in the region etc.

 

I

 

In my opinion the malls that exist now haven't been developed to their fullest extent yet to warrant completely new malls. For example if Beachwood and Legacy built large parking garages they'd have open land needed to build large expansions like malls of similar caliber have done. It's annoying to think their building another new mall when in theory its not needed.

 

I think the retail portion of University Square between target and Macy's should become apartments or office space.

although it was 90 degrees at the time, i bought a bunch of flannel shirts at this upper midwest chain in duluth, mn:

 

http://ragstock.com/

 

its kind of like buffalo exchange with vintage merch, except w/more flannel/winter focus. it would do very well in cle in tower city or somewhere i think, but i see they only go as about as far east as illinois. i bet they could be lured further east.

^that would actually take initiative and I don't see TC's marketing team having much of that.

TJ Maxx/HomeGoods have been on the leasing map for Oakwood Commons for probably a year. Don't know if ever announced officially.  Let's face it.. University Square has been a disaster. I know Target has been looking to move... even if down the street. People don't like the crumbling garage et... Here is Oakwood info:

 

http://goodmanrealestate.com/properties/oakwood-commons.html

 

As for Eton, Legacy, Beachwood, Pinerest poaching, etc... "Population decline" or not there are still 3.5 MM potential people within an hour or so and they border on the state's wealthiest areas. Retailers want in and want competitors nearby. For better or worse, the existing development have squeezed in about as much as they can already.. Unlike Easton or Polaris in Columbus, built decades after Beachwood and the original Eton, CLE east side doesn't have huge wide open land to build/to have built one massive shopping center on.. So we get 4 to provide the stores and restaurants many consumers (me included) want. Let's not confuse another TJ Maxx moving down street to the pnly Crate&Barrel or Tiffany & Co in the region etc.

 

I

 

In my opinion the malls that exist now haven't been developed to their fullest extent yet to warrant completely new malls. For example if Beachwood and Legacy built large parking garages they'd have open land needed to build large expansions like malls of similar caliber have done. It's annoying to think their building another new mall when in theory its not needed.

 

I think the retail portion of University Square between target and Macy's should become apartments or office space.

 

I think the whole discussion related to retail sprawl is really interesting.  When I was in Cleveland, I had to go to Beechwood because my sister needed to stop by Nordstrom for something.  I was envisioning a pretty similar situation to Kenwood here in Cincinnati, but I was surprised to see that the areas didn't appear very similar at all in terms of retail surrounding the mall.  The actual malls seemed to offer fairly similar stores, but Beechwood appeared to be surrounded by mostly apartments, rather than other retail.  I know Legacy Village is basically across the street, but there wasn't the retail corridor or cluster that I would expect from an area that houses the region's dominant retail developments.  Kenwood now has 3 garages which has allowed the mall to expand and have more outward (street facing) stores.  The Kenwood retail (and office) area extends for about a mile in either direction from the mall on both Kenwood and Montgomery Roads, which allows for all of the other, non-mall retail to be in the area.  Places like TJ Maxx, Staples, Trader Joes, various restaurants, etc. are all found in the Kenwood area, but just as smaller strip centers around the mall.  While it doesn't make for a great aesthetic environment in some places, and traffic and parking can be a bit of a pain, the retail area has not faced poaching from other developments, because there simply aren't any big retail developments for a pretty significant radius from Kenwood.

 

Now on the far North side of Hamilton County, Tri-County Mall has faced years of decline because of new centers being built further and further out.  In the 80s and 90s, malls were built around the 275 (outer belt) loop, and now we are seeing the rise of retail centers along 75, including Steiner's Liberty Town Center, which has provided yet another devastating blow to Tri County, despite being 6+ miles away on 75.  It's a shame to watch what is happening out there, and interesting to compare it to the Kenwood experience.  Though, to be fair, some of the trouble Tri County finds itself in is a result of demographic shift, as well. 

 

I know the area around Beechwood and Legacy Village is pretty much built out, but perhaps there is some room for an increased retail presence around these shopping centers, or re-zoning the could occur to make that happen.  It seems to me that if there is sufficient room near the existing retail powerhouses, other retailers would rather locate there than further out on the fringe.  Though it appears this ship has already sailed in some respects. 

 

*If I'm incorrect on any of my observations and assumptions, just disregard.  I obviously do not have a comprehensive sense of the area, nor do I know its history.

^All that other stuff (offices, broad retail selection in strip malls, TJs, etc.) is also in Beachwood (or Woodmere, an adjacent postage stamp-sized jurisdiction), about 2 miles south of the mall, one highway exit away. Others know a lot better than I do, but I think it all essentially operates as one big cluster.

I know when we have our shopping days, it's usually just a trip to "Beachwood", not a specific mall or shopping center in the area, and always comprises stop at all the big centers off Cedar and Chagrin. It would be nice to have it all at one stop at the mall (which with Saks is still the center of my shopping), but its not really a big deal as nothing is really far away from eachother. Pinecrest will just be another part of the experience.

I know when we have our shopping days, it's usually just a trip to "Beachwood", not a specific mall or shopping center in the area, and always comprises stop at all the big centers off Cedar and Chagrin. It would be nice to have it all at one stop at the mall (which with Saks is still the center of my shopping), but its not really a big deal as nothing is really far away from eachother. Pinecrest will just be another part of the experience.

 

I agree, and Eton is also kinda mentally wrapped into that "Beachwood" group with a lot of shoppers, even though it is technically in Woodmere.  It still has that haute couture Beachwood-y air about it.

I know when we have our shopping days, it's usually just a trip to "Beachwood", not a specific mall or shopping center in the area, and always comprises stop at all the big centers off Cedar and Chagrin. It would be nice to have it all at one stop at the mall (which with Saks is still the center of my shopping), but its not really a big deal as nothing is really far away from eachother. Pinecrest will just be another part of the experience.

 

I agree, and Eton is also kinda mentally wrapped into that "Beachwood" group with a lot of shoppers, even though it is technically in Woodmere.  It still has that haute couture Beachwood-y air about it.

 

Hell, most people don't even know Woodmere exists! Most people I know who aren't into planning and development like I am, don't realize Eton isn't in Beachwood. That little postage stamp really should be, if for no other reason than to make it easier to do something about improving Chagrin...

 

Oh, and as someone else already mentioned, the Pinecrest site is being cleared. Most all of the trees and brush are gone, just some houses remaining. I saw some big construction equipment clearing one out as I drove past this afternoon.

Anyone who has driven too fast on Chagrin east of I-271 in the past 40 years knows exactly where Woodmere is! :-o

 

Anyone who has driven too fast on Chagrin east of I-271 in the past 40 years knows exactly where Woodmere is! :-o

 

Amen to that.